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The difference between controlling and wanting respect.

GSB81

By GSB81
in Cheating, Flirting, and Jealousy

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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In a few of my past relationships I have been accused of being controlling, but all I felt that I was doing was requiring the same respect I freely give a girl I'm involved with. I'm a firm believer in setting boundaries while in a relationship, as I believe that there is a big difference in what's considered acceptable behavior for a single person and one who is in a relationship. For example, my ex told me all about her sexual past early in our relationship. She'd had lots of threesomes with friends and former coworkers in her early 20s, and alcohol seemed to be a common factor. That's cool, it's in the past right alongside my wild times. I had no problem at all with it... Until I noticed some of the same names kept popping up in current activities. Red flag. Then she mentioned going to hang out with one of her female friends from her roaring 20s that had been one of the instigators of a few of her drunken sexcapades to catch up, as they hadn't seen each other in years. I said "I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that if you two start running around together again, it will probably lead to problems between us. Please keep in mind the stories you've told me about the things you and this girl have done." She of course flipped out on me, said I was being controlling and didn't trust her.

 

This raised a good question, did I trust her? The answer is no, not blindly. She'd lied to me in the past about who was present at a birthday dinner party. That same night she couldn't be reached for around 3 hours and blamed it on bad cell service and losing track of time. Funny how it had never happened before. I had no real evidence, so I didn't push much, but I did make mental note of it.

 

During one of our many fights about how I didn't trust her enough to be okay with her running around with "friends" she had told me about sleeping with and some who had simply tried to sleep with her, I asked her for her debit card number. She was surprised and confused. "why do you need my debit card number?" I said I just wanted it, I wouldn't buy anything with it, just wanted it. This was moments after her telling me how much she trusted me. She wouldn't give me the number. For the remainder of our time together, she never started any more arguments about trust.

 

During those many arguments about how I didn't trust her and she did trust me, I would stress one important thing: I never gave her reason not to. I never did anything that I knew would make her jealous. As much as she denies it, she is a jealous person. This was proven while wee were taking a break in which we agreed to not see other people. She went to a sporting event with one of her male friends I'd never heard of. We were talking about a phone issue she was having and mentioned being at this event with her "buddy John." I asked if it was a date, she said no. We argued. Two months later, she jumped my ass because a girl tagged me in a post on Facebook about watching tv at her house. So while she's laying into me about it, I'm sporting the biggest smile on my face. She was even texting my best friend asking nosey questions. I let her totally unload on me, even repeated some of the capital shed said to me in the past about trust. Her main concern was that I'd been at this girl's house. But it's okay to go to a sporting event with this guy right? She did some mental gymnastics to justify it and tore into me again. "Fine, go watch tv with your whore, have fun!" I then dropped a bomb on her. That girl is my cousin who just moved back from college. I got her to admit that it sure sucks being the one that feels threatened, a role sheet often put me in due to her inability to be considerate to my feelings.

 

So where do you draw the line between controlling and demanding respect and firm boundaries. Sorry for the long post, I felt the need to give personal examples.

Axee Established Member

Axee

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Fact is her revealing her past has caused you to lose your trust in her. Can you look beyond that,??

its not merely saying "past is past", its about actually NOT letting the past affect your thoughts and feelings about her in ANY way.

 

Having said that,If this is the only area where you are accused of being controlling..

I would say you are not controlling and its perfectly normal and understandable behavior from a partner. But I can understand her point also ...She is not being allowed to do what she likes so she feels you are controlling her.

 

Root cause here is not whether you control her or not, but whether you trust her or not.

 

Now, point is .. you arent trusting her , I could sense it your words. So you need to build that trust in her by observing her and watching her actions and maybe you too can get to know her friends , go along with them and hang out with them so that you feel reassured and secure with her and silence your mind.

 

If even then your sense of trust in her isnt growing. Talk to her, and let her know that you feel insecure with so and so actions and behaviors and why so. Be honest and sincere about and accept it that her past makes you a bit insecure right now. If she wants you in her life, she will also respond back positively.

 

If all fails,You need to deeply rethink the entire relationship , and whether its good for you and her.

Edited by Axee
added some things
pteromom Established Member

pteromom

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So where do you draw the line between controlling and demanding respect and firm boundaries. Sorry for the long post, I felt the need to give personal examples.

 

You can't demand respect. It's something you have to earn. You earn it by giving it yourself and by having integrity and being honest.

 

Boundaries in a relationship aren't about having another person bend to your will. THAT is the difference, and that's when it becomes controlling.

 

Boundaries are about making sure your relationship aligns with your values, not about making another person feel the exact way you do.

 

So here's some examples of having boundaries vs. being controlling:

 

Acceptable boundary: "I will not be in a relationship with someone who has sex with others."

Controlling: "I am worried you may have sex with someone else, so you aren't allowed to go out with your friends if you want to be with me."

 

Acceptable boundary: "I will not be in a relationship with someone who isn't honest with me."

Controlling: "You cannot go to a sporting event with a male friend."

 

So the boundaries you create are about YOU and what you will or won't accept, NOT about demanding something from someone else.

 

Another aspect of being controlling is using manipulation and games to "win" against someone else. The way you describe smiling, knowing you had the upper hand while she was "laying into you". The way you used her debit card as a tool in winning an argument and getting her to shut up about trust issues... these are both controlling behaviors.

 

A successful relationship isn't about winning against your partner. It's about working together to ensure you both are getting your needs met in a relationship. You have to go into it being honest, open, upfront, and TRUSTING. You can't ever build a strong foundation without trust.

 

And - controlling behaviors like you've mentioned will lead to dishonesty. When a woman (or man) is with someone who has an opinion and judgement on everything she does, she will start weighing whether it is better to just be honest and risk the wrath of her partner, or hide the truth and not have to risk it.

 

You cannot control a person into being trustworthy. If someone is faithful, she will be faithful whether she's out with a friend she partied with many years ago. She will be faithful when the cute guy in her office smiles at her. She will be faithful when an old boyfriend shows up professing his love. You simply cannot control someone into not cheating, if that's what she wants to do.

 

You can read her emails, watch her phone, tell her who she can or can't go out with, etc, and if she's gonna cheat, she will find a way. So you may as well let go of the need to control, and instead focus on whether the relationship meets YOUR needs. If you and she have vastly different values, it is best to walk away from the relationship.

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CarrieT Established Member

CarrieT

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you can't demand respect. it's something you have to earn. You earn it by giving it yourself and by having integrity and being honest.

boundaries in a relationship aren't about having another person bend to your will. That is the difference, and that's when it becomes controlling.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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We are not together anymore. I was very open about things that concerned me, she never seemed to care. Her biggest priority always seemed to be her fun, her girls night out, her freedom to do whatever. I'm not concerned about reconciliation, I'm just thinking about future relationships. I stand by my statement about being ok with her past Sexually experiences, the problem was that some of the people in those stories were not in the past but very much in the present. It's like, you'd be ok dating a former alcoholic, but probably not a girl with a current drinking problem. And if you were dating a recovering alcoholic, wouldn't you be a little worried if she started hanging out with her old drinking buddies?

pteromom Established Member

pteromom

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We are not together anymore. I was very open about things that concerned me, she never seemed to care. Her biggest priority always seemed to be her fun, her girls night out, her freedom to do whatever.

 

So you guys were not compatible when it came to lifestyle or values. That's a situation where rather than trying to make her think like you, you should have just moved on as soon as you realized you weren't compatible.

 

And if you were dating a recovering alcoholic, wouldn't you be a little worried if she started hanging out with her old drinking buddies?

 

Not if I trusted the person I was with. If I was concerned that she would start drinking again, or sleeping around again, I would have to consider whether I really wanted to be in a relationship with those kinds of risks.

 

In the future, rather than going solely by what you feel for someone, use your logic too. Ask yourself if this person wants the same things you want. Ask yourself if you respect her, her choices, her lifestyle, and whether it will merge well with yours. If you find the right person - and go into it with the right attitude of being equal partners showing mutual respect - you will find you won't have these same issues in a future relationship.

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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I never told her she couldnt do any certain thing. When i made it known that a particular thing bothered me, it was quickly dismissed. Im glas its over. Things were great in the beginning, then she sort of became obsessed with her friends, their opinions were more important than mine. And as for the debit card thing, was it not ironic that she didnt trust me enough to give me the number? As for the smiling thing, again was it not ironic that miss never jealous went ape**** when finally on the receiving end of a situation id been in several times?

pteromom Established Member

pteromom

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And as for the debit card thing, was it not ironic that she didnt trust me enough to give me the number?

 

No... I think asking for someone's debit card number is kinda creepy and weird. That would violate almost anyone's boundaries.

 

As for the smiling thing, again was it not ironic that miss never jealous went ape**** when finally on the receiving end of a situation id been in several times?

 

Sure. But it's odd that you would WANT to make someone go ape**** if you supposedly care about them. This is what I was talking about before. A relationship isn't about WINNING over your partner. You should be working together to build a strong partnership. You should be always trying to lift your partner up and make her always feel happy when you are around. And vice versa. If both people take on that attitude, you have two people trying to make each other happy, rather than two people trying to win the war against each other.

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CarrieT Established Member

CarrieT

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And as for the debit card thing, was it not ironic that she didnt trust me enough to give me the number?

But why did you even want that information?

 

Agree with PteroMom - creepy....

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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Cary, you must miss the irony of it. This girl was going on and on about the importance of TRUST and how much more she TRUSTED me than I trusted her. I asked for the card number to prove a point about trust. I guess she didn't trust me with a few hundred bucks huh?

pteromom Established Member

pteromom

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Nobody misses the irony of it.

 

We get it.

 

But it's not an equal exchange. She is allowed to run around with her friends. That's HER life and HER choice. It's your choice whether it aligns with your values and you want to be in a relationship with her, but it's her life. You weren't her dad. She was a grown-up. She could make her own choices.

 

Her debit card is HERS as well, so that's not a good comparison for testing trust. An equal comparison would be you allowing her to tell you that you can't do something in your life that has value to you.

 

And my previous point still stands. You are still trying to WIN. Yep, you showed her - hahahhahahha! That's not a way to behave in a successful relationship.

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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No... I think asking for someone's debit card number is kinda creepy and weird. That would violate almost anyone's boundaries.

 

 

Oh... I see. It's ok to trust someone with your heart and your relationship, but not your money.

 

 

Sure. But it's odd that you would WANT to make someone go ape**** if you supposedly care about them. This is what I was talking about before. A relationship isn't about WINNING over your partner. You should be working together to build a strong partnership. You should be always trying to lift your partner up and make her always feel happy when you are around. And vice versa. If both people take on that attitude, you have two people trying to make each other happy, rather than two people trying to win the war against each other.

 

 

Where did I say I wanted her to go ape****? I did however find it amusing to see how she reacted when the tables were turned. It wasn't about winning, it was about her finally seeing what it was like to feel threatened. As I stated earlier, I never did anything that might have made her feel the least bit jealous. That's why she was able to feel so secure. The first time she felt like idiot crossed a line, she freaked out. So much for trust, so much for feeling secure.

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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But it's not an equal exchange.

 

Trust is trust, is it not? Shouldn't she have trusted me not to steal from her? Just like I was supposed to trust her not to jump in bed with her friends like she used to? I mean, at least I don't have a history of stealing. :)

Pirouette Established Member

Pirouette

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Trust is trust, is it not? Shouldn't she have trusted me not to steal from her? Just like I was supposed to trust her not to jump in bed with her friends like she used to? I mean, at least I don't have a history of stealing. :)

 

You had no reason to know her debit number. You were using the demand as a weapon. Would you give your debit number to your girlfriend? A friend?

 

I've been with my boyfriend for 6 years and we have a joint bank account. I wouldn't give him my debit card # unless he actually really needed it.

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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You had no reason to know her debit number. You were using the demand as a weapon. Would you give your debit number to your girlfriend? A friend?

 

I've been with my boyfriend for 6 years and we have a joint bank account. I wouldn't give him my debit card # unless he actually really needed it.

 

 

You say weapon, i say to prove a point. And it sounds to me like you don't trust your boyfriend. And yes, I would have given her my debit number. Four or five of my family members have it to buy stuff on ebay.

Pirouette Established Member

Pirouette

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You say weapon, i say to prove a point. And it sounds to me like you don't trust your boyfriend. And yes, I would have given her my debit number. Four or five of my family members have it to buy stuff on ebay.

 

I trust him a hell of a lot more than you did this girlfriend. I also happen to think that passwords are personal. I don't give it out to anyone unless there is a need. He has no need. I don't know his number either. We own a home together. He could drain our bank account dry with his own debit card if he wanted to.

 

Yeah, a weapon to prove a point, not because you actually needed to know the number. When you get married, would you sign a prenuptial agreement? I would.

 

If he asked for my # as a sign of trust, I'd ask him how the hell that has anything to do with trust.

Edited by Pirouette
pteromom Established Member

pteromom

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Where did I say I wanted her to go ape****? I did however find it amusing to see how she reacted when the tables were turned. It wasn't about winning, it was about her finally seeing what it was like to feel threatened.

 

I find that disturbing.

 

Did you read anything I have written to you about a successful relationship being about mutuality? Hurting someone to "prove a point" is wrong. Being AMUSED by their discomfort and emotional pain is... really wrong.

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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I find that disturbing.

 

Did you read anything I have written to you about a successful relationship being about mutuality? Hurting someone to "prove a point" is wrong. Being AMUSED by their discomfort and emotional pain is... really wrong.

 

 

Now I must ask if you have read my posts fully. I did NOT do anything to make her jealous. She read something on facebook posted by a female relative

and got jealous of what she thought was me hanging out with a girl who wasn't her.

dasein Established Member

dasein

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:lmao: Funny thread. You are witnessing more of the same infinite female rationalization capacity here in this thread that you experienced with your privileged, disrespectful GF. Good for you for getting rid of that ticking time bomb in the making.

 

OF COURSE it's not controlling to DEMAND that activities with questionable friends from the past be strictly limited and scrutinized. Doesn't matter if it's drugging, boozing, sex or other risky behavior. There is no defensible response, only endless rationalizations. It goes both ways and regardless of gender.

 

One kind of respect is indeed earned over time, as is trust. Another kind of respect and trust, a baseline level, is BARGAINED FOR when two people make the important decision to enter an exclusive relationship. I don't see men wanting to swagger off and play "You Don't Own Me" in disingenuous ways anytime their activities are questioned pursuant to an exclusive relationship the way women do.

 

Certain baseline behavioral expectations come along with giving up YOUR rights when entering an exclusive relationship, and they are for the most part matters of common sense. An exclusive relationship is not a mere appendage to a "fabulous party life," but a life and behavior changing decision. The same women who will tralala with "You Don't Own Me" will be calling you a commitmentphobe for not hopping to comply with every aspect of her relationship agenda within her unilateral timeline. Who is trying to own whom exactly??

 

Don't buy the rationalizations, OP. You are and were in the right, and your decision to take a much more proactive, scrutinizing role in your relationshps going forward is a very wise one. Ironically, it will raise attraction in quality women who don't want to date a doormat. They will gripe and whine, "controlling this, controlling that," but in actuality, when you identify yourself as a man who is self-possessed and doesn't put up with rationalizing crap, THAT'S when they gain and keep real, long term respect.

 

Always have one foot out the door when dealing with women in these types of issues, be ready to walk. The good ones will still try to misbehave, but will quickly realize you are a valuable, unique quantity different than the supplicating mass of man-boys. You are on the right track.

 

PS, your asking for her bank card number was brilliant and cuts right through the rationalizing BS. Wish I had thought of it. :laugh:

Edited by dasein
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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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I trust him a hell of a lot more than you did this girlfriend. I also happen to think that passwords are personal. I don't give it out to anyone unless there is a need. He has no need. I don't know his number either. We own a home together. He could drain our bank account dry with his own debit card if he wanted to.

 

Yeah, a weapon to prove a point, not because you actually needed to know the number. When you get married, would you sign a prenuptial agreement? I would.

 

If he asked for my # as a sign of trust, I'd ask him how the hell that has anything to do with trust.

 

 

Let me get this straight... you two share a bank account, but you feel the need to keep your bank info private from him... It's the SAME account. Anyway, you really don't see what that has to do with trust? You really don't get it?

 

Ladies, I appreciate your responses in this thread. However, it does appear that you are just going in circles. It appears that the message a reader would take away from your comments is to expect nothing from your partner and trust them blindly, except with banking information because that's different and has nothing to do with trust.

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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Dasein, you are a gentleman and a scholar, thank you.

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Axee Established Member

Axee

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see I am a lady here, and I can speak for all when I say that

I will NOT be comfortable if my boyfriend goes around with people whom he has had threesomes and what not and i will make it clear to him. Else that worm will always be running in my mind...

 

Its not controlling him, its a normal part of being in a relationship. We are not ideal humans and everyone has different degrees of comfort level... And I think in your particular case its entitled.

 

Asking for debit card number, I dunno why its being so much stresed upon here. Its a small example , what you tried to show and mountain is being made of a molehill..It does sound like you wanted to make a point there. But its ok, there are fights between couples and these things happen...

 

If every girl and guy is so strict about "THIS IS MINE" , "THAT IS PERSONAL", then no wonder relationships crumble so easily these days...

We need to use judgement based on situation , not just blindly say this is mine, that is mine..

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GSB81 Established Member

GSB81

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see I am a lady here, and I can speak for all when I say that

I will NOT be comfortable if my boyfriend goes around with people whom he has had threesomes and what not and i will make it clear to him. Else that worm will always be running in my mind...

 

Its not controlling him, its a normal part of being in a relationship. We are not ideal humans and everyone has different degrees of comfort level... And I think in your particular case its entitled.

 

 

Seems like common sense and compromise to me, but the other ladies who have posted in this thread will say it's demanding, controlling, and expecting someone to bend to your will. People can and will dress things up with ideas and semantics picked up in various magazines and tv shows about the way to make a "healthy relationship." I tend to take a more stripped down approach to the matter. Bare bones is the way to go. Here's an example. When I'm single, my friends and I hit the strip clubs from time to time, a friend of mine is a bouncer at two of them, so we get in for free. We have a blast, and but when I'm in a relationship, I DON'T GO! I don't ask if I can go, I don't drop hints that I want to to go, and I certainly don't sneak off to go. Now if I were to act like the other ladies in this thread have suggested, I would simply go and tell my girlfriend that I'm gonna do what I want when I want and if she doesn't like it, she knows where the door is. In fact if I did that, the same ladies would probably say I'm being insensitive to my girlfriends feelings and pretty much a jerk. They would probably say it's a matter of... wait for it... here it comes... RESPECT!

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Quiet Storm Established Member

Quiet Storm

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I believe that you can gain insight about a person from their past. How else can we judge a person, except by their actions? A person's current actions are a good indicator of character, but so is a person's past. People change, mature and learn...but to totally disregard a person's actions because it was "in the past" is naive, IMO.

 

In this case, having threesomes with friends could be viewed by some people (not all) as having a lack of boundaries. People with bad boundaries will usually continue to have bad boundaries until they actively seek treatment or educate themselves about boundaries. People with poor judgement often continue to make poor choices, especially if there are no consequences. Often, no consequences = no growth.

 

We can set standards or boundaries for our relationships, but we can't demand that others change to meet those standards. If they are not willing to respect your boundaries, you have to be prepared to end the relationship because you are not compatible. If their actions don't meet your idea of acceptable actions in a relationship, you don't force the other person to comply. You move on.

 

I think it is acceptable to have a boundary such as this: I am not comfortable with you going out with these friends because of the circumstances in your past.

 

Many people will say that the boundary above is unreasonable and is rooted in your insecurity, and therefore, it is YOUR issue.

 

That may be true, but that doesn't negate the fact that you have every right to set whatever boundaries you want for your relationships. Whether your boundary is reasonable to others, whether it is rooted in your insecurity or jealously, it is your boundary, regardless. If she feels that you setting boundaries is controlling, she can move on.

 

IMO, it is controlling to say "You are not allowed to go out with your friends". It is not controlling to say "If you go out with your friends, I will feel uncomfortable & worried and I am not sure if I will remain in a relationship where I feel this way". You are simply stating your feelings and your wants for a relationship, and not making any demands. She can decide what she will do, and you can make your decision about the relationship accordingly.

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