justwhoiam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 My MM's son was recently diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor......MM has decided that he cannot expect God to listen to his prayers if he is involved in an adulterous affair. He has informed me that we cannot have a physical relationship while his son is having his chemotherapy treatments. He wants everything about our relationship to continue with the exception of the sex. Why is it that I can understand any contact is adulterous but, he cannot?? Any contact is adulterous? What about compassion? Do you know what that is? Empathy? Love? Not the love of a lover: love that is not selfish nor demanding, love that is just giving, and where sex is not involved. He didn't ask you to avoid physical contact and have cyber sex with him instead. He left sex behind because that obviously cannot be in the picture right now for him, as he's going through what he's going through. Don't turn things now saying you were not thinking of sex, because that was right on your mind, and in your next posts on various levels ("what about the attraction"...) You've been knowing him for most of your life. Let sex aside, and be there for him as a friend.
Author Bailey14 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 Any contact is adulterous? What about compassion? Do you know what that is? Empathy? Love? Not the love of a lover: love that is not selfish nor demanding, love that is just giving, and where sex is not involved. He didn't ask you to avoid physical contact and have cyber sex with him instead. He left sex behind because that obviously cannot be in the picture right now for him, as he's going through what he's going through. Don't turn things now saying you were not thinking of sex, because that was right on your mind, and in your next posts on various levels ("what about the attraction"...) You've been knowing him for most of your life. Let sex aside, and be there for him as a friend. That is my inclination but, most everyone here thinks I should walk away from the relationship with NC. I don't think it is a good idea to see him since we have never been successful in keeping it platonic but, I do want to continue to talk to him on the phone(we live 2 hours apart so it is not like we will accidentally run into each other). My sister just died 8 months ago.......I have great empathy and compassion for what he is going through.
MourningLosses Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 What about what his wife is going through and what cheating (even emotionally) NOW might do to her that cheating some other time might not? I wouldn't want to be you or him if she finds out. I've lost a child. My parents lost a child. I can tell you mothers take the battle for life a lot more personally than fathers. Some things are just not meant to be infidelized, and a child's struggle for life is one of those. No matter how old your child is. I know you want to support him. But to me this says more than the affair what kind of man he is. And pragmatically I just wouldn't risk the fallout either. 1
Author Bailey14 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 What about what his wife is going through and what cheating (even emotionally) NOW might do to her that cheating some other time might not? I wouldn't want to be you or him if she finds out. I've lost a child. My parents lost a child. I can tell you mothers take the battle for life a lot more personally than fathers. Some things are just not meant to be infidelized, and a child's struggle for life is one of those. No matter how old your child is. I know you want to support him. But to me this says more than the affair what kind of man he is. And pragmatically I just wouldn't risk the fallout either.[/ I think about this all the time.....I was a BS many, many years ago and I cannot imagine dealing with infidelity while dealing with a sick child. That is my struggle.....it is called ambivalence and that is why I am seeking advice. If I end the relationship am I doing it out of compassion for him or I am doing it to protect myself? If I continue the relationship, am I doing it to support him or save my heart? I am struggling here with the reality of trying to be selfless while, at the same time, confronting my own selfishness.
woinlove Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 So sorry that he is treating you this way, Bailey. He's labelled part of what you share as bad or a sin, but wants to keep other parts, and he may wish to pick up the part he thinks as bad when his focus is off his son and on himself again. Sounds like a terrible way to treat anyone. I don't know how you responded when you were with him during your own loss, but I suspect you were more respectful. He sounds very selfish to me. Make sure you protect yourself, and know what YOU want. If you are not happy with this arrangement but go along with it, it could affect how you think of yourself and feeling good about oneself is so difficult to regain. 1
Author Bailey14 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 You have previously mentioned you spend HOURS on the phone every night while his wife is passed out drunk. He plans to keep this arrangement? WHAT???? You have me confused with someone else. We talk once or twice a week and his wife drinks very little.
Author Bailey14 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 I'll have to go back and look. Look all you want but, you will NOT find a post like that from me. 1
Author Bailey14 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 Any contact is adulterous? What about compassion? Do you know what that is? Empathy? Love? Not the love of a lover: love that is not selfish nor demanding, love that is just giving, and where sex is not involved. He didn't ask you to avoid physical contact and have cyber sex with him instead. He left sex behind because that obviously cannot be in the picture right now for him, as he's going through what he's going through. Don't turn things now saying you were not thinking of sex, because that was right on your mind, and in your next posts on various levels ("what about the attraction"...) You've been knowing him for most of your life. Let sex aside, and be there for him as a friend. It is adulterous because he keeps our contact secret from his wife and he tells me that he loves me very much.
whichwayisup Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 It is adulterous because he keeps our contact secret from his wife and he tells me that he loves me very much. It is, but it seems like neither of you can let go. I can't remember, but how many years has he been married? Bailey, just try your absolute best to not put him first in your life. He is going through hell and his focus in going to be on his son for many months to come so you have no choice but to back off and rely on him less. This would be a good time to reach out to other family members, and friends. Get busy with hobbies and work too. He isn't leaving your life - It's just on stand still for a long while.
EmptyHeartGirl Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Bailey, I think what you really want is for someone on the board to tell you to go ahead accept what he's offering. He needs you to be there to support him when it's convenient for him... I say go for it, it is what you want to do. I just warn you to be prepared that "support" could mean you will not hear from him for long periods of time. Are you willing to accept and deal with that? If you are then do it. I do have a few questions: Why hold on to someone who is so easily able to walk away from you? You did not respond to the poster who mentioned how your MM "abandoned" you when you were dealing with your sisters illness? I have to assume that this was true since you did not state otherwise, so why would you want to support someone who couldn't support you in your time of need?
Author Bailey14 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 It is, but it seems like neither of you can let go. I can't remember, but how many years has he been married? Bailey, just try your absolute best to not put him first in your life. He is going through hell and his focus in going to be on his son for many months to come so you have no choice but to back off and rely on him less. This would be a good time to reach out to other family members, and friends. Get busy with hobbies and work too. He isn't leaving your life - It's just on stand still for a long while. You are such a kind person. Thank you for your gentle words. You are right. Neither of us can let go. He told me last night that the only circumstance under which he will disappear from my life is if I make him go away. He feels our relationship will end when one of us dies. He has been married for at least 38 years.....I don't know the exact number. My life is very full. I have a job that keeps me busy 6 days a week. I have wonderful friends, a passion for animal rescue, and a sister I adore. I have never relied on any man.....my father taught me at a very young age that relying on a man would result in a lot of disappointment. I know he is not leaving my life. The nature of the relationship has changed but, I think it will survive this newest hurdle. 1
frozensprouts Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Bailey, I know this won't be what you want to hear, but having been in a similar place as this man's wife, i can tell you that she will need his full time, 100% support right now. She needs him to be there, not just for her but with her...do you think he can do that if he's still turning to you for support? One of the worst things a spouse can do during a crisis is to turn outwards for support...t a time like this, they need to turn towards each other... where does that leave you? I know you want to be there for him when he needs someone, but at what cost to you? Will you be giving up too much of yourself and your heart for him? 3
Author Bailey14 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 Bailey, I think what you really want is for someone on the board to tell you to go ahead accept what he's offering. He needs you to be there to support him when it's convenient for him... I say go for it, it is what you want to do. I just warn you to be prepared that "support" could mean you will not hear from him for long periods of time. Are you willing to accept and deal with that? If you are then do it. I do have a few questions: Why hold on to someone who is so easily able to walk away from you? You did not respond to the poster who mentioned how your MM "abandoned" you when you were dealing with your sisters illness? I have to assume that this was true since you did not state otherwise, so why would you want to support someone who couldn't support you in your time of need? He did disappear for nine days and then came back completely supportive. I never mentioned it because I knew I'd get flamed by some of the posters and I was too fragile to cope with it.
Author Bailey14 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 Every time I have come to this forum I have mistakenly assumed that the people who post here know the purpose of Loveshack.org. The home page states that "Loveshack.org is designed and operated to promote collaboration and to offer support to persons seeking advice." I would like to respectfully suggest that some of you look up the words "support" and "collaboration." To those of you who offered support, I thank you. To those of you who insulted me and criticized me, may I suggest that you learn to couch your insults and criticism in a little kindness. No one needs to be kicked when they are already on the ground. 2
Survivor12 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 It seems that you are confusing "support" with "agreement". I just read through this entire thread and I have seen no basis for you to deny that you have been supported throughout. Sure, people have suggested that you consider things that you don't want to think about and offered their opinions & truths that you wish not to hear, but all of it has been to support you. The advice you have received has been given, not to give you false hope, but in an effort to help you make decisions that will help you avoid more pain. Ask yourself the real reason you chose to withhold information. You said it was because you didn't want to "get flamed". I get it. But, to believe that would happen, you had to KNOW that it was "flammable". You simply didn't want to have to face the truth. In other words, you consider those who point out the truth to be unsupportive--of what you WANT even though they are being supportive of what is in your best interest. Look, it's like this, we are all here to ask for and give advice and to learn from the experiences of others. If everyone simply said, "oh, good for you, keep up doing what you're doing" and pretended that they don't see the freight train heading straight for you, what good would come of it? Please understand, it is often the advice that hits hardest that is the most useful. 4
Author Bailey14 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 That's right. MM's wife doesn't deserve to be kicked when she's already down. She's dealing with a very sick child and doesn't need to have her husband move farther away from her just because his lover is upset because she's not gettin' some. He was your first. And you've been pining for this man for more than four decades. I too feel sorry for you - that you think (at your age) this is the end of the world when this couple's child is dying. MM's wife is NOT on thus forum.....I am. And I do not think this is the end of the world. I said my heart was aching. That is very different from the end of the world. I have lived through more tragedy than most people I know and I have survived it all. Please don't feel sorry for me. 2
Author Bailey14 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 That's right. MM's wife doesn't deserve to be kicked when she's already down. She's dealing with a very sick child and doesn't need to have her husband move farther away from her just because his lover is upset because she's not gettin' some. He was your first. And you've been pining for this man for more than four decades. I too feel sorry for you - that you think (at your age) this is the end of the world when this couple's child is dying. And, BTW, I have not been "pining" 4 decades.....I have loved him but, I have not "pined"(just an example of what support is NOT.....one need not be nasty in order to make a point). I was married for 14 years, and involved in two other long term relationships.....one for 9 years and one of 16 years).
whichwayisup Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 You are such a kind person. Thank you for your gentle words. You are right. Neither of us can let go. He told me last night that the only circumstance under which he will disappear from my life is if I make him go away. He feels our relationship will end when one of us dies. He has been married for at least 38 years.....I don't know the exact number. My life is very full. I have a job that keeps me busy 6 days a week. I have wonderful friends, a passion for animal rescue, and a sister I adore. I have never relied on any man.....my father taught me at a very young age that relying on a man would result in a lot of disappointment. I know he is not leaving my life. The nature of the relationship has changed but, I think it will survive this newest hurdle. It'll be tough but you have a lot in your life to keep you busy. Once you get used to a new routine with him, a changed dynamic it won't hurt as much. best though not to fantasize, hope or wish for what you miss, if you know what I mean.. As for some advice and thoughts you disagree with it, try not to react to it. Focus on the ones that help you. And thank you for the compliment Bailey. PM me anytime if you need anything.
Author Bailey14 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 It'll be tough but you have a lot in your life to keep you busy. Once you get used to a new routine with him, a changed dynamic it won't hurt as much. best though not to fantasize, hope or wish for what you miss, if you know what I mean.. As for some advice and thoughts you disagree with it, try not to react to it. Focus on the ones that help you. And thank you for the compliment Bailey. PM me anytime if you need anything. WWIU, thank you. You seem to understand what support is. And I will PM you......I know you will not judge.
alexandria35 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 He did disappear for nine days and then came back completely supportive. I never mentioned it because I knew I'd get flamed by some of the posters and I was too fragile to cope with it. Okay so he came back 9 days later (or more) and you were grateful that he decided to turn up at all. See this is what happens to women as soon as they make the decision to accept unacceptable behavior and stay with an a**hole. A guy will do some jerk off thing to hurt a woman, the woman feels pain and then when the guy comes back around and the woman's pain stops she is grateful to the guy for putting an end to the pain he caused. Then she makes a connection between the guy and her happiness. She remembers that when he went away (physically or emotionally) that she felt great pain but when he came back that pain went away which then leads her to believe that she MUST have this man in order to avoid pain. It's a type of brainwashing that women will do to themselves. It can happen in any relationship but I think it's much more prevalent in affairs because there is a constant element of underlying pain in so many of them. The AP is on top of the world when the WS is with them and giving them their undivided attention but when the WS has to leave the AP pines, and wishes and hopes and feels sad and uncertain and etc etc and the only time the AP is totally free from any pain and anxiety is when the WS is with them so the connection between feeling good and being with the WS becomes very strong in the AP's mind, and soon the AP believes that they will never be able to feel good or be happy again if they were to lose the WS. The AP doesn't see that the WS is the source of their pain, instead they only see the WS as their source of happiness. It's not rational. OP I think you romanticize this relationship far too much because you believe you absolutely must have him in your life to be happy. How does it feel to be told by your MM that he thinks he has to stop having sex with you in order to have God hear his prayers? Sex between 2 people who care about each other should be a glorious experience of sharing and loving but apparently your MM regards it as a sinful act that is going to cost his son his life if he doesn't stop it. Ewww...I would never want to have sex with anyone who felt sinful and ashamed afterwards. A man who would feel guilty for having sex with me is a turn off to me and I'd send him packing. 4
Author Bailey14 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 Alexandria35.......this is the most insightful look at what I have been going through for over 2 years!!! And your assessment of his reason for ending our physical relationship is what I have been trying to put into words since Saturday night when he shared his newest reason for ending our physical relationship...I say newest because, although his son's tumor is a compelling reason, this is the 7the or 8th time he has announced that our physical relationship has to end. He calls himself a devout Catholic and the guilt he feels about our affair has tormented him since day one. He has tortured me with his guilt and I have allowed it. Thank you for your insightful post. You have filled in the blanks that I have been searching for.
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