Leaf9 Posted December 15, 2012 Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) I need some help knowing if I am way off base, or if I'm feeling like any sane person would in my situation. My husband and I have been married for a little over ten years. When we got married we talked about who was going to work and support our family, and who would stay home with the children (right now we have two). We both decided that it would make more sense for me to work and him to stay home when we started a family. I've been to college and have been working on advancing my career over the past ten years. I do make good money and we are comfortable with one income while he stays home with the kids. After our children were born things worked out well for the first few years. It hasn't always been easy and we argue about the normal things that married couples argue about. However, over the last three years (since our youngest has been in school full-time) we have been having a huge problem with one thing - what my husband contributes (or doesn't contribute) to our marriage. Since both of our kids are in school for seven hours a day, my expectations of him have increased. I expect him to clean the house, do the grocery shopping and cook for the kids. He does get the kids to school each morning and does do the grocery shopping, but our house is never clean. In fact, it's a gaddamn disaster. Trash everywhere, clothes all over, food left out for days, toys all over the place, etc. When the kids were home all day I could understand why it wasn't clean when I got home and I tried to help out as much as possible after work. But now I just don't understand how he can't do this on his own. When I try to talk to him about this he says that he tries to clean and is busy all day doing things for the kids. My job demands a lot of my time and I often have to go away overnight. To be honest, I don't think that I should have to come home to a house that is a mess every day. I want to come home and spend time with my kids without having to worry about picking up the trash or doing laundry so that they have clean clothes in the morning. I feel like my expectations are reasonable, but no matter how many times - or how many different ways - I try to tell him that I need him to clean the house, he just won't do it. Things have gotten so bad lately that I've asked him to move out in the hopes that this will help him prioritize better. He hasn't left yet because up until now all I've done is ask him to. I think that he thinks that I'm not serious about this. I'll ask him to leave and then give him a few days or weeks to get a plan together (without harping on him daily), but then life just goes on like it always does until I ask him to leave again. We've been doing this for two months. I'm at the end of my rope and I am afraid that if it continues like this I will end up hating him and it will lead to divorce. He also says that he is not "good" at cleaning and that I'm better than him - I can clean my entire house in less than 4 hours if I'm the only one here and the kids aren't competing for my attention. He says he just can't be that fast and it takes him longer. I try to be understanding so I did tell him that I understand if cleaning just isn't his thing. I've suggested on multiple occasions that he get a part time job and pay someone to come and clean. He wants to get a maid (we have done this a few times in the past when I needed the house clean for a special occasion such as one of the kids birthday parties) but he is unwilling to get a job to pay for it. My guess is that it would only be about $400.00 a month - but if I pay for that out of my wages then what is he contributing to the marriage? I know marriages aren't always 50/50 but sometimes I feel like mine is closer to 80/20. I'm so embarrassed to invite friends or family members over to my house because of the way it looks. My kids never have play dates at our house becaus of this. I'm hurt and I don't understand why my needs (the need to have a clean house) aren't important enough to get him to do something about it. I also don't want my kids to live like this. It sets a bad example and they are getting older and will want to bring friends over soon. This might seem petty to some of you (I know my husband doesn't cheat on me, abuse me, drink to much, etc) but it is a big enough deal to me that I am concerned about the future of my marriage. I do love my husband and he is a great father, I just can't live like this anymore. He believes that he does enough and that I'm being unreasonable. Please give me your perspective on this so that I know if it is just me being a bitch or if he needs to contribute more to the household. I feel like this isn't good for him either and that if I continue to enable him and allow him to sit at home and spend as much money as he wants on video/computer games and toys then I am just as much at fault as he is. I would love to hear from a stay at home mom/dad so I can get their perspective on the struggles of having hat responsibility - or anyone else with some advice. Thank you for any advice you have and for taking the time to read this! Edited December 15, 2012 by Leaf9
dmachado12 Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Make him get a job. You can have your children go to after school programs and have him pick them up after work. Do chores, dinner etc together in the afternoons or weekends. Seems like he is using you. 2
BlueStone Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Can you hire a cleaning lady or a cleaning crew? It would cost about $120 biweekly, depending on how big is the house. If your hb is a great father and a good husband but he has never been good in cleaning than probably he never will. You can also share the work with him, sometimes it's easier to do chores together and with some laughter than alone. And since the kids are in school, probably it would be time to think about a part time or full time job for him too. Whatever you do, don't let the house cleaning issue poison your family life. Edited December 16, 2012 by BlueStone 1
Gunny376 Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I don't see this as a divorce issue, but rather one that needs communication, negotiation, compromise. That and looking for alternative solutions. And it had a lot to do with simply two people coming together to live to together while ~ well learning how to live together. Me? I'm an info/trivial/ geek. I'll read just about anything I can get my hands on. I can assimilate information visually, audibly, etc ~ but I don't initially do so well with "hands on" the first time up to bat? I need practice with it more than just once. I've a first cousin? You put a book, slide show, movie, audio tape in front of him and his eyes just glazes over. You show him "hands on" the first time and he's got it. Doesn't matter what it is? The first time someone showed him how to re-build a transmission, car engine, work on an engine, repair just about anything? He got it the first time in so long as you took the time to show him how to do it! My Dad only had a 7th Grade education. Couldn't do much more than basic reading, arithmetic etc. Couldn't spell for nothing, make complete sentences etc. But the man was a mechanical wizard. There wasn't anything he couldn't work on that was mechanical. And he usually didn't need a whole lot of fancy electric, computer diagnostic ya~ya to do it with. Everyone he worked with had these big tool boxes with tens of thousands of dollars worth of "special tools" His? You could have packed your lunch in? Most of the tools he had in his tool box were specialized tools that he made himself! He went on to have a thrity five career working for the Army as a helicopter mechanic. He was checked out on the Huey, the Bell Recon, the Skycrane, the Apache, etc. Had his FAA liscesne. My point? People aren't cookie cutters. And we're not all "square blocks that neatly fit into square holes" Some us are retangular, some of us are octangular, some of us are round. Your DH isn't the Suzzy Homemaker type, probally never has been, never will be, and just isn't going to be. That doesn't make him a bad husband, bad father, bad person. Just means he's not a Martha Stwert Fan? For what its worth? I think he needs to get a job ~ except the job that he needs to get is one that is "condusive" to the yours, his, and the needs of the family. I think it should be one that is such that he can get up and do what he currently does, get the kids and you out the door to work and school, and then be home for when the kids get home. They purporse of said job is to pay for someone to come in a clean the house and keep it up to your standards. That and to get him out of the house, out and about. Meet people, make acquaintences, etc. Your not only fortunate but blessed that you have this opition to allow him to go out and find a job that you can customize to your, his, and the needs of the family. Meanwhile? It wouldn't hurt for him to start educating himself on how to organize and clean stuff? And while your at it? Do the same for the kids! It sounds as though this isn't just a problem with the DH, but a family affair. Me? I know how to cook. I was raised by my paternal GM. Too keep me busy and out from underfoot, she would always keep me busy from age 6. If on the rare occasion I ran out of things to do? She would send me outside to my GF who always had something for me to do. I know how to do laundry, scrub floors, baseboards, and thanks to the United States Marine Corps know how to clean and scrub a toilet that anyone would be proud to sit upon! My problem? Mrs Gunny comes from a "traditional Southern" background and is a SAHW. (Bad knees, fibromyalgia, arthritis etc) She takes great Pride in taking care of me the way he Mama took care of her Daddy! She takes great pride in taking care of "her man". She prides herself on cooking for me, packing my Stanley lunch box, washing clothes, leaving my towel and bed clothes, (shorts and a open front t-shirt) on the towel ring. Some would say ~ aka femin-nazi's" ~ that this was chauvinist? I actually had to make a hugh adjustment to any and all of this? I'm perfectally capable of cleaning house, making coffee, tea, washing clothes. What I had to get across my head? Was? This is her way of showing and expressing her love and appreciation to and toward me! Per her family history, back ground, etc? I literally had to learn how to let her do this and wait on me. Yours isn't a divorce issue ~ yours is a communication, comprismise, learning and growing togehter, "I'm not him ~ he's not me" ~ Giving up on "traditonal" cultural and societial ~ "Leave It To Bever" model way of marriage, getting off of your dead azz and finding out what works for you and him and MOST IMPORTANTLY? What works for you, him and them thar' BABIES! 2
whichwayisup Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Maybe he can get a part time job so he can be out of the house and be a regular person for a while. He is dad, he is husband. He's Mr Mom and can't do it all. I have sympathy for him, especially the fact that he is trying and is busy. Unless you've caught him doing nothing, or watching porn, sleeping through out the day when nobody is home, I'd cut him some slack. Why not hire a cleaning crew, or a cleaning lady to come once every 2 weeks? This way the house can be cleaned from top to bottom. This way it'll be easier to stay on top of. AND, get your kids involved. They can put stuff away and clean up after themselves, help do dishes, take out trash, fold laundry. When I was a kid, it was expected of myself, my sister and my brother to do household chores and this started at early age! Clearing the table, setting the table etc..etc.. Also sounds like you and your husband need a romantic get away! Hire a sitter or drop the kids off at the grandparents house so you two can go somewhere for a few nights, a hotel with a spa day. Think about it.
Author Leaf9 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 Thank you all for your feedback. Most of you mentioned my husband getting a job and sharing the responsibilities. I would have no problem with this and would be happy if this is where we ended up. However, I've suggested this on multiple occasions, and he even went through a brief period of time where he looked for work, but he is unwilling to get a job. For a long time he couldn't find a job, then he did find one but didn't show up for his first day at work (he said he forgot), so of course they declined to invite him back. He believes that he doesn't need one (which is financially true) so I've told him to get one just to pay for someone to come in and clean the house. He just won't do it. In any case, it sounds like the general consensus is that I'm overreacting a bit and need to work harder to get this to work. Again, thanks for the honest answers. It wasn't what I expected, but maybe it was what I needed.
trippi1432 Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Hi Leaf - I have to agree with a lot of what other's have said here too. I realize your feedback above is that he doesn't seem to want to find a job and perhaps he has gotten comfortable with the way things are, but I do see something lacking in communicating this need to him. It sounds like what you have put out there as a goal for getting a job is for the extra income to have someone come in and clean which would be more to your standards. Two issues - both of them being his self-esteem, one- he can't do things that please you and two - he feels emasculated as he knows that money isn't an issue. Understand, not blaming you for what he feels, this could possibly be his perception of the issues. Are there any interests that he has that he could possibly turn into business ideas? It doesn't sound like he fits the traditional work life (9-5) sort of thing, but possibly he may have some sort of entrepreneurial mind-set? I bring this up as an idea because I know a lady who is a VP in my company and her husband has been the "house-husband" throughout her career. When the children got to school age, he started his own locksmith company and has done very well. He sees himself as an entrepreneur and it gives him a sense of self esteem. It also allows him to control his own hours to work around her busy career and the kids schedules. 2
Author Leaf9 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 I appreciate your perspective trip. I do know that his self esteem and self worth as a man are an issue in all of this and that is one of the reasons I've tried to take a very slow and calm approach to all of this. As I previously stated, this has been going on since we were married but has reached the critical level since our youngest has been in school full time. He does have some interests in some self employment things like what you are talking about. He has been working on one thing in particular and excelling at it - so far he is using it as a hobby (which is great because I want him to have something for himself apart from the kids) and has not taken it too the next step. I will strongly recommend that he work on making money from this. He is extremely smart and excels at most things he puts his mind to, but his motivation and ambition are lacking. I think one of the mistakes I made about a year ago was to give an ultimatum I wasn't prepared to follow through on. I told him he had three months to get at least a part time job or that he would have to move out. Obviously he didn't get the job, and I didn't make him move out. So now I'm having a hard time getting him to take me seriously. So how much time should I give this and at what point do I have to really put my foot down and actually make him leave (I can't leave cause of the mortgage on our house - he couldn't afford to pay it and I'm sure as hell not leaving without my kids)? That's one of my downfalls, I love him so much and think that he is an amazing father, so I make threats and can't or don't want to follow through with them when he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain. I know that really damages my credibility. So how long do I allow this to go on? It feels so good to be able to talk about this - I don't talk to family or friends because I don't want to run the risk of them losing respect for him. So, thank you for hearing me out!
trippi1432 Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I appreciate your perspective trip. I do know that his self esteem and self worth as a man are an issue in all of this and that is one of the reasons I've tried to take a very slow and calm approach to all of this. As I previously stated, this has been going on since we were married but has reached the critical level since our youngest has been in school full time. One of the first things that struck me is that the two of you sat and down and had a plan in the beginning of how things would be. Things do change over time, and where the two of you are now, wasn't in that plan. What I am referring to, is what he would do as a SAHH when the kids get older and then finally leave home. Hindsight is 20/20 but there is always room for improvement and even the best laid plans are subject to change. He does have some interests in some self employment things like what you are talking about. He has been working on one thing in particular and excelling at it - so far he is using it as a hobby (which is great because I want him to have something for himself apart from the kids) and has not taken it too the next step. I will strongly recommend that he work on making money from this. He is extremely smart and excels at most things he puts his mind to, but his motivation and ambition are lacking. This is good! Suggestion, instead of strongly recommending (and I understand lack of motivation and ambition), encourage. I wouldn't even bring up income as a motivating factor or the ability to hire someone to clean the house. Support and pride in what he is doing, show him that. Brag on him about the hobby to family and friends, ask him if there is anything you can do to help him. I think one of the mistakes I made about a year ago was to give an ultimatum I wasn't prepared to follow through on. I told him he had three months to get at least a part time job or that he would have to move out. Obviously he didn't get the job, and I didn't make him move out. So now I'm having a hard time getting him to take me seriously. So how much time should I give this and at what point do I have to really put my foot down and actually make him leave (I can't leave cause of the mortgage on our house - he couldn't afford to pay it and I'm sure as hell not leaving without my kids)? That's one of my downfalls, I love him so much and think that he is an amazing father, so I make threats and can't or don't want to follow through with them when he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain. I know that really damages my credibility. So how long do I allow this to go on? Here I feel you are beating yourself up on something that you really don't need to. It's obvious you do love your husband and he is a good father. Throwing him out to make a statement might not net the results you hope for. You haven't damaged your credibility, he's not a child nor an employee....he's your husband. Try this other route for a while and see if that helps....as far as time, there is no time limit on marriage....it's for a lifetime. It feels so good to be able to talk about this - I don't talk to family or friends because I don't want to run the risk of them losing respect for him. So, thank you for hearing me out! And I admire you for this above. Help him with his self-esteem and I think you might find it will help you regain respect for him as well. Please keep posting and remember to breath. Marriage is the hardest job you will ever have, but worth the reward.
whichwayisup Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I think one of the mistakes I made about a year ago was to give an ultimatum I wasn't prepared to follow through on. I told him he had three months to get at least a part time job or that he would have to move out. Obviously he didn't get the job, and I didn't make him move out. So now I'm having a hard time getting him to take me seriously. Why would you put that ultimatum on him? Imagine you in his position, not working for years, being at stay home mom, kind of losing who you are, so wrapped up in kids lives, home stuff etc..etc..Self confidence not the same as it once was when it comes to the real world and getting job, skills not sharp, then your H tells you "you have 3 months to find a job, part time or full time or you can move out!" No man would say that to his wife! Sorry I don't mean to harp on you about this, but he could resent you for that suggestion, forcing an ultimatum like that on him. I know I'd be hurt and pissed off if my H did that to me, especially if we were well off and the job wasn't really needed. Or is there more to this? Just seems like such a drastic ultimatum. 1
Author Leaf9 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Posted December 16, 2012 Well, at the time there was "more to this" but that certainly doesn't excuse it so I won't even bother going into it. I stated in my post that it was a mistake and obviously something that I wasn't prepared to follow through on. As to the "why" of it - I was fed up with my house being a disaster when he has 7 hours a day with no kids that he could be cleaning. He prefers to play computer games. As I said, it doesn't make it right but I'm just frustrated. I guess I've always thought that a stay at home spouse should be capable of cleaning the house. I know it's hard but really - how do you have 7 hours a day with no kids and not be able to pick up the dishes from breakfast and clean the kitchen? As you can see, I'm frustrated. I come home from working 9-10 hours a day and I don't even feel comfortable in my own home because of the mess. In any case, you are right, and I freely admit that. I shouldn't have said it.
Cutiepie1976 Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Read the OP, but none of the responses that follow. (They were long.) Apologies if this has been said...and for the length of my own post. FWIW, I'm single but most of my close friends have house husbands. The women who report to me all have house husbands (the men have housewives:laugh:), and about half of the families in my neighborhood have house husbands. Just get a maid! I think unfortunately that you've lost perspective, and are now turning a relatively minor, easily solvable issue into something that can destroy a great marriage out of sheer stubbornness. (I'm sure it doesn't feel minor to come home to a pigsty. But trust me, this is minor in the grand scheme of your life.) You are blessed to have a wonderful husband who has allowed you to excel in your career and raise wonderful children. Why would you toss a good marriage away over this? Why aren't your kids picking up after themselves and learning to clean up? He's being treated like a third-class citizen. He should be your partner. Instead you're bossing him around like an underperforming employee about to be fired. He's your peer, not a report. Your treatment is emasculating. Maintaining a household is challenging work. He is chauffeur, executive admin, etc. keeping everything moving along smoothly and seamlessly. It's easy to take for granted and not realize how much of a contribution it is until it's gone. Let him be. I'm sure, he'll eventually find something to do if he has time on his hands and gets bored--either a hobby or an idea that becomes a flexible small business. And if he doesn't, so be it! You can leave your work behind if you want to. He can't. His lives with him nearly 24/7. He can't even take a vacation. Work follows him there too! Give the poor guy a break. I have a feeling you really don't need that $400/month income. Apologies if I'm wrong on that front. I'm also guessing that once you account for the tax treatment of that $4800 annual income (taxed at your rate and possibly kicking you into a higher tax bracket), the suggestion becomes senseless. So really, this is a power struggle to show him he has to do your bidding. All you're doing when you insist he get a job is highlighting how little he is perceived to be worth in the household compared to you bringing in the big bucks. (Lazy hubby=$400/month; superwoman=$x/month) So is showing/telling him that you can do his job (well the tiny piece you're fixated on anyway) in four hours. (Incompetent lazy hubby=0; superwoman= perfect and efficient). Ditto when you tell him he's disposable because you can and will kick him out on a whim if you feel like it. Can he kick you out? Or is it "your" house and he's a squatter...a lazy, incompetent, jobless, freeloading squatter no less. Would you motivate someone at work this way? By telling them they are basically worthless and inconsequential? Is that how you get their best performance? Mothers tell their irresponsible teenage sons to go get a job, then harangue them about it. There's no need for that dynamic here. Nor is there a reason to order him around like he's a peon at work. Sorry that my feedback is harsh. I know you're well-meaning and I'm sure you're a wonderful person. I empathize with your frustration. It's coming through loud and clear. But I also think you need to see things from his perspective, how you're making him feel, and the deeply negative, destructive impact this can have on your marriage, if it hasn't already had an effect. If nothing else, understand the value he brings to the table. Think about the supports that you would need to put in place to take care of your children as a divorced mother. Think about the costs you would incur for childcare and household maintenance. Think about the time that you would now have to spend on these things. Think about all the business trips you couldn't take, early morning/late meetings you would have to forgo, the unexpected things that come up at work that you could no longer handle, etc. What would that mean for your career and your future income. That is part of your husband's unappreciated gift to you. You are partners and peers. Please stop treating him as less than! 1
FitChick Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 He sounds depressed. Have you see a therapist. Tell him you'd be willing to also go to couples or marriage counseling. Tell him he only has to clean the kitchen, living room and guest bathroom if you have one, for a few weeks and see how that goes. That way you will be able to have company and can keep all the other doors closed. He might feel inspired as he sees how easy it is to keep rooms cleaned regularly instead of starting from scratch every few weeks which overwhelms him. I agree that the kids should be taught to clean up after themselves -- make their beds, put dirty clothes in the hamper, put their toys away if they leave them all over the house. Perhaps have a discussion with hubby as to how you two can work as a team to get the kids to cooperate. The focus won't be on him. Talk about his hobby to friends and relatives so they become the ones encouraging him to start a business instead of you, which sounds like nagging to him. How is your sex life?
Author Leaf9 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 Wow, cutiep, that was a rough reply. No worries though, I asked for it. It will take me some time to digest what you have said but one thing concerns me right off. If what you are saying is true, then maybe we have more problems than just this (or at least I do). If I am treating my husband as a second class citizen and trying to get him to do my bidding - I am guessing that would manifest itself in other areas as well. I don't think this is happening, but it is not something that I have put any objective thought into either. I will do that. As to our sex life, it sucks for a couple of reasons. The first and obvious is that I'm very unhappy and don't want to have sex. The other one is a health condition that gets in the way (for me, not him). There are ways to get around the health condition that include narcotics but we have sex probably once every three months (I know, that's bad). I will say that there are times when I do want to and he is too tired or will say "how about tomorrow." And there are hardly ever times when he initiates sex.
Cutiepie1976 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Sorry. Please, please don't see it as criticism of you or a dismissal of your very legitimate feelings at an understandably frustrating situation, but rather see it as a description of the situation from a different perspective to show you how this really isn't working for either of you. I tried to think of a nicer way to convey the message and just couldn't. It would have been "Just get a maid!" which wouldn't be very helpful...or to not post at all. I hope my feedback was at last somewhat helpful. I admired that you sought to understand his side of things. You're to be commended for that and your clear commitment to finding a reasonable solution/compromise. My goal was to help. My impression is that you are a very well-meaning, practical, get-to-the-point, "let's just do this" kind of person. That's fantastic! I am too. But sometimes we have to tone it down with our loved ones, especially our partners. I suspect he's not dealing very well with this style of interaction, and is far more unhappy than he lets on. He's shut down and given up is my guess. I suspect that he needs a lot more support and understanding as he tries to redefine himself and his role in the family, now that the kids are getting older, and life. He probably feels as if he lost himself somewhere in this child-rearing process and isn't even sure where to start. Again, I could be totally wrong, but I suspect that your marriage is in much worse shape than you might realize. The fact that he is turning you down on the rare occasions that you do ask for sex suggests that he really is struggling with the way you treat him. Sex is sometimes the canary in the coalmine of marriage. Is this a one-off blip or a more pervasive problem? I don't know. I'm not there. I agree with taking a step back and looking at the general way that you interact together, problem solve, and make decisions. Is it truly a joint effort where the compromise sometimes goes your way, sometimes his? Are both voices equally considered? Or is it that he tends to give in or just not even offer up suggestions? As to the cleaning issue, it has become such a major issue for both of you that I would just make it go away. Hire a cleaning lady and focus on getting the kids to clean. Ditto for the job thing unless you really are strapped for cash. These are not worth sacrificing your marriage. You may not be able to see this in the midst of your frustration, but you have a good man. You're very lucky. Edited December 17, 2012 by Cutiepie1976 1
Cutiepie1976 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 One more thought, if I may... in a relationship, men crave respect and women to be cherished. I've found it helpful to remember that. BTW, you do not bear sole responsibility for where you both are today. Please do not beat yourself up over this. He is just as responsible for not speaking up, and not telling you that he needs you to treat him with more respect and dignity, or to treat him as an equal. He's an adult man, after all! The problem is that you're seeking a solution. He has shut down and is now playing video games. Playing the blame game solves nothing and IMO will only worsen your marriage. Someone has to offer up an olive branch first. You're here. So, tag you're it, chica. Good luck! You're a very capable woman, I have no doubt you'll do a great job of getting your marriage back on course. 2
Author Leaf9 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 Cutie, your feedback is appreciated more than I can say. You are right, it am a get-it-done and don't mess around kind of person. I asked for honest, and if necessary, brutal feedback and that's what I'm getting. Thank you! I certainly agree that the sex is an issue, along with the cleaning. I also agree that I am lucky. I have a job that most people would kill for, kids that are like heaven on earth and bring me so much joy, a husband that is fundamentally a wonderful person, and very few problems (especially compared to what I'm reading on here, which really puts things in perspective). I know this and I also know that we both have needs that are not being met. I just need to find a way where we are both get what we want. His way of resolving issues is to ignore them - but I do know that he is not happy. I don't kid myself into thinking he is perfectly content the way things are. But I also know that I need things to change or they will just get worse. This is one thing that I can't compromise on (we both compromise regularly). So, if it means that we hire a maid and he spends his time doing something else productive, so be it. I can do that. What my biggest concern is is that if we hire a main it will give him more time to play his games. If we did get someone to clean and he spent that time with the kids in school helping out, or doing something he enjoyed, I would be ok with that. So my plan is that we hire someone and I will just have to make it clear that he can't use that time to play his games. That's ok right? I mean it wouldn't be right for him to sit there playing games while the maid cleans the house, right?
Mr. Lucky Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 If we did get someone to clean and he spent that time with the kids in school helping out, or doing something he enjoyed, I would be ok with that. So my plan is that we hire someone and I will just have to make it clear that he can't use that time to play his games. That's ok right? I mean it wouldn't be right for him to sit there playing games while the maid cleans the house, right? You make him sound like an employee at your company, some underling in a division you manage. How many hours does he have to work each day before he gets his 10 minute break? I think one of the mistakes I made about a year ago was to give an ultimatum I wasn't prepared to follow through on. I told him he had three months to get at least a part time job or that he would have to move out. Obviously he didn't get the job, and I didn't make him move out. So now I'm having a hard time getting him to take me seriously. If the genders were reversed in your post and some guy posted that he's told his wife "90 days to get a job or you're out of here!!!", he'd be crucified. You have a very negative dynamic in your marriage. You'll both need to make some changes... Mr. Lucky 1
whichwayisup Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Are you sure it's just video games he's into? Ever check your internet history on the computer? You say the sex life isn't great either, and he says he's too tired and rejects you too. Hate to say it but could he be watching porn? 1
trippi1432 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 No Leaf, I would say he would ultimately re-direct his interests off the games with the right encouragement. I would think it would be embarrassing to have a maid come in while I am playing games to clean the house...perhaps?
Author Leaf9 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Posted December 17, 2012 You make him sound like an employee at your company, some underling in a division you manage. How many hours does he have to work each day before he gets his 10 minute break? If the genders were reversed in your post and some guy posted that he's told his wife "90 days to get a job or you're out of here!!!", he'd be crucified. I already said I made a mistake in saying that (about the job). Good god. It's not that he is an underling that is my subordinate. It's that I do not want to work 50-60 hours per week and have him do next to nothing all day while my kids are at school. Can someone tell me how that is fair? I'm willing to listen to the feedback, but I don't understand why I'm working harder (or at least way more hours) than him. I just want to feel like I have a partner and not a third child (que negative comments about me and my bitchy ways). I don't know if it is video games or porn. I'm kind of afraid to know. Very early on in our marriage there was an admissions of having issues with porn and even being addicted to it. There were some pretty big issues over it at the time (long story). Every so often I check in with him and he says he isn't looking at it now, but who knows? Before we were married he was a computer tech and I learned early on in this process that if he wants to hide something on his computer he will hide it and I don't have the capabilities to try and find it.
Cutiepie1976 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 If we did get someone to clean and he spent that time with the kids in school helping out, or doing something he enjoyed, I would be ok with that. So my plan is that we hire someone and I will just have to make it clear that he can't use that time to play his games. That's ok right? I mean it wouldn't be right for him to sit there playing games while the maid cleans the house, right? Hmmm...He's an adult. I guess I personally would let him figure out how to spend any free time he might have. I suspect he doesn't twiddle his thumbs and sit on his computer 24/7. It seems we have very different priorities. If my husband were to refuse sex with me, my focus would be on reconnecting with him as his friend and lover, repairing and rebuilding our marriage. I would be more focused right now on finding the best marriage counselor, not on whether he got some inconsequential second job that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I guess I'm a bit of a pragmatist. The day he finally walks out the door (most likely to be with a woman who gave him a drop of validation, said a word of praise, and allowed him to feel like a man again...someone he met while carrying out one of the innumerable responsibilities of his job as a SAHD), you will still have a messy house since you have kids creating a mess who don't clean up, you will no longer have a husband, your kids will be stranded at school, soccer practice, or wherever because you left work at 3:20 not 3 to pick them up and shuttle them to their next activity, and since money is such a focus for you, you will now be supporting two households, not one. I don't get the need to have a short list of approved activities for another adult unless he was mentally incapacitated. Frankly, it's insulting! It may feel like a compromise to you, because you've expanded it from "get a [second] job" but it's just more of the same...really, it is. As I said, you're a well-meaning, efficient, wonderful person. No one is trying to vilify you. Your fundamental problem, from my vantage point, is that you don't see your husband as your equal or what he does as worthwhile, and you lack perspective. Those things can destroy a relationship. The dynamic with your husband has to change. He's not your child, and he's not your subordinate at work. He's your partner.
Cutiepie1976 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Playing video games is probably a symptom, not the problem. Take care of the problem and the symptom disappears.
Cutiepie1976 Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Again, I really admire your courage in seeking advice and input. It's not easy to open up and be vulnerable to criticism. I respect and appreciate that you've been so open and thoughtful about the feedback you've received. No doubt it's been very tough to hear some/most of it, and I apologize for adding to the discomfort. The focus has been on you and your role. He is just as responsible. You are human. We all are. Humans make mistakes. Don't beat yourself up over this. It's what we do afterwards to right things that matters. As I said before, you're a very capable person. The only reason I commented was because I was confident you would use whatever input you got to fix things. I really do wish you the best!
pinkie Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 I just might be the only one here that feels your pain. I would, wash every stitch of clothing in the house except his, I would then take all the video games and game box and throw it out. I would cut off the cable, and the Internet, if he wants it, he can pay for it! Take back control over the finances... Write him a check of a certain amount per week for groceries, gas for the vehicle and that's it. Period. If he doesn't want to take full responsibility for his share of the household and marriage then don't give it to him. He's not been emasculated- he's a lazy little boy. A baby sitter at most with free room and board. Make it so and don't expect anything more out of him. If he has a problem, change the locks!
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