Is There a Ceiling for Self Improvement in Attracting Women...?

[USMCHokie]

Not all of us look like Ryan Gosling or Channing Tatum. So we have to work a little harder. It's the natural order of things and how life works. Just like some of us aren't as naturally intelligent as others and we have to study longer and harder.

 

Sure. And if we study harder and check all the boxes, our education system rewards us with a degree. Unfortunately, our social system doesn't do the same if we put in the same amount of work to improve ourselves. There's no doubt it takes lots of time and effort to make the changes necessary, I can certainly attest to that; but if after years of self-improvement, all you have is a bad-ass version of yourself and no one who appreciates it, it can make you wonder if that's even what women are looking for...are they really looking for something that's out of our control...?

[USMCHokie]

let's assume that there is this supposed 'ceiling' and that you have hit yours. so what comes next ? i'd suggest getting out of your own head and try making the girl you desire feel attractive instead.

 

So women should be interested in us because we make them feel attractive rather than because they are attracted to us...?

[iris219]

And therein lies my original question...when you've made the diligent effort to be the best you can be, and that still isn't good enough to attract who you're attracted to, what next...? Is it truly out of your control...?

 

I believe a lot of it is out of our control because attraction is so complex and much of it works on a subconscious level. We all know there are people who have made no effort to improve anything and who aren't the most attractive people in any way, yet they do just fine when it comes to dating.

 

I don't know what you do next. I'm trying to figure that out. The only thing I've come up with thus far is learn to be happy alone.

 

So women should be interested in us because we make them feel attractive rather than because they are attracted to us...?

 

Yes, making women feel a certain way about themselves makes them attracted to you.

[iris219]

One more thing: I believe for some people dating will be hard, if not impossible, because they are wired to find certain people attractive, yet these people aren't wired the same way. Something biological/evolutionary messed up. They are missing whatever it is that makes people feel attracted to those who are likely to reciprocate that attraction.

 

Think about somedude and how different his life would be if he genuinely found overweight women attractive.

[USMCHokie]

I don't know what you do next. I'm trying to figure that out. The only thing I've come up with thus far is learn to be happy alone.

 

With this method, the best you can hope for it that someone does happen to find you attractive enough to date. Otherwise, this attitude doesn't seem to keep you actively engaged in attracting others...

 

Yes, making women feel a certain way about themselves makes them attracted to you.

 

Isn't that the basic premise behind PUA...? As long as you make a woman feel a certain way, whether positive or negative, it doesn't matter who you are or what you actually bring to the table...?

 

 

One more thing: I believe for some people dating will be hard, if not impossible, because they are wired to find certain people attractive, yet these people aren't wired the same way. Something biological/evolutionary messed up. They are missing whatever it is that makes people feel attracted to those who are likely to reciprocate that attraction.

 

Think about somedude and how different his life would be if he genuinely found overweight women attractive.

 

Well, the general theory is that people tend to be attracted to those of similar levels of attractiveness. The issue is that many people don't know how attractive they themselves are, especially those who do not get the feedback from dating during their formative years. The kids in grade school and college who gained a lot of dating experience generally are able to establish their sense of attractiveness (you are as attractive as who you can attract), so they know exactly who they should be "targeting."

 

However, folks like SD and others who never got this dating experience have no idea where they stand on the social ladder. They never "learned" to find those on their actual level attractive, so they go around thinking they are actually "X" level of attractiveness while they're actually "Y." So they spend their lives only being attracted to X's and ignoring the Y's...

 

That explains the bolded above quite nicely, I think.

[iris219]

With this method, the best you can hope for it that someone does happen to find you attractive enough to date. Otherwise, this attitude doesn't seem to keep you actively engaged in attracting others...

 

This is what women do. We hope that we will be attractive enough so that someone will want to ask us out.

 

Also, learning to be happy alone doesn't mean you give up. It means you live your life without dating or relationships being in the forefront.

 

Isn't that the basic premise behind PUA...? As long as you make a woman feel a certain way, whether positive or negative, it doesn't matter who you are or what you actually bring to the table...?

 

I know nothing about PUA. I know that when a man makes me feel special, I like him, even if he's not the type I would normally be attracted to from across a room.

 

Well, the general theory is that people tend to be attracted to those of similar levels of attractiveness. The issue is that many people don't know how attractive they themselves are, especially those who do not get the feedback from dating during their formative years. The kids in grade school and college who gained a lot of dating experience generally are able to establish their sense of attractiveness (you are as attractive as who you can attract), so they know exactly who they should be "targeting."

 

However, folks like SD and others who never got this dating experience have no idea where they stand on the social ladder. They never "learned" to find those on their actual level attractive, so they go around thinking they are actually "X" level of attractiveness while they're actually "Y." So they spend their lives only being attracted to X's and ignoring the Y's...

 

That explains the bolded above quite nicely, I think.

 

I don't think we necessarily learn to find others attractive. I think a lot of this is programmed in us.

 

I agree that we generally find people of equal attractiveness attractive. Even if you don't understand your attractiveness level, in theory, you should still find yourself drawn to those who ARE similar to you in attractiveness. If you don't, I'm convinced something isn't working the way it should in your brain. That might be a strange way to say it, but I believe attraction is largely biological rather than learned.

[USMCHokie]

This is what women do. We hope that we will be attractive enough so that someone will want to ask us out.

 

I don't know if men have that same luxury in today's society...

 

Also, learning to be happy alone doesn't mean you give up. It means you live your life without dating or relationships being in the forefront.

 

Well, not actively pursuing dating or relationships and just "letting it happen" are also not the same as giving up...

 

 

I know nothing about PUA. I know that when a man makes me feel special, I like him, even if he's not the type I would normally be attracted to from across a room.

 

Then that focuses the effort entirely towards the woman...which is what PUA is all about...techniques to make women feel a certain way... So instead of focusing effort on self-improvement and being more attractive as a person, we should focus effort on learning how to make women feel attracted to us...?

 

That sounds exactly like PUA...

 

I don't think we necessarily learn to find others attractive. I think a lot of this is programmed in us.

 

I agree that we generally find people of equal attractiveness attractive. Even if you don't understand your attractiveness level, in theory, you should still find yourself drawn to those who ARE similar to you in attractiveness. If you don't, I'm convinced something isn't working the way it should in your brain. That might be a strange way to say it, but I believe attraction is largely biological rather than learned.

 

I think attraction is biological as well, but media also shapes what we find attractive. When we don't have experiences to act as the balance between what reality media portrays and our own reality, we tend to have a skewed perception of what is attractive to us...

[iris219]

I don't know if men have that same luxury in today's society...

 

I wouldn't call it a luxury.

 

So instead of focusing effort on self-improvement and being more attractive as a person, we should focus effort on learning how to make women feel attracted to us...?

 

One without the other isn't going to maximize your chances for success, so a combination of the above is necessary.

[runner]

Then that focuses the effort entirely towards the woman...which is what PUA is all about...techniques to make women feel a certain way... So instead of focusing effort on self-improvement and being more attractive as a person, we should focus effort on learning how to make women feel attracted to us...?

 

That sounds exactly like PUA...

 

as iris mentioned it reqires a combination of both: being as attractive you can be, at the same time knowing how to turn a woman on to you. one without the other won't work; ie, an emphasis on the former is futile if you can't get a woman's attention, and an emphasis on the later is also futile if you're an unambitious, jobless fat slob.

 

going back to the original thread title, i think there is a ceiling when it comes to attraction simply because no matter what you do, some women will not be attracted to you no matter how awesome you become, and that's just fine. but as far as improving oneself, generally speaking, the ceiling is only as low or high as one wants it to be.

 

at the end of the day though, who really gives a flying **** ? just live your purpose, and let the right one(s) in.

[AD1980]

 

 

Yes, making women feel a certain way about themselves makes them attracted to you.

 

Ehh i think once that spark wheres off and you enter the grind of a relationship and a women realizes shes not that attracted to you and youre nothing more then a emotional tampon to her then its over.. I think animalistic lust and physical attraction plays a much bigger role in a relationship then some people want to admit..

 

Sure you need more then that but that opens the floodgates to get two people to really want to know what the others about..Being friends with a really good looking guy ive seen first hand how powerful it is to be a handsome conventionally good looking guy and how easier it makes your dating life..

[USMCHokie]

at the end of the day though, who really gives a flying **** ? just live your purpose, and let the right one(s) in.

 

Because I'm bored...?