From those Who Know and Have Been There

[Confused3232]

Yes, I was in love with the other woman. Thankfully she lived far away. D-Day occurred, got busted a second time, got bounced out of the house for a month. My wife handled it perfectly, I gave her space, she never begged, just told me to leave her alone. I complied.

 

What is really unfortunate is with the twins, this should be the best time of your life. When you look back at those baby pictures, you will feel sadness. Make sure you have ALL his passwords. And tell him to start looking for a new job now.

 

Trust me, he's not being perfectly good if he sees her all the time. You don't overcome this quickly. Here's fantasy, she tells him how great he is. Reality You're tired with the kids and job and he's not the number 1 priority. And she's just as bad.

 

Good luck. It was the biggest mistake of my life.

 

Thank you, it has been enlightening to hear from you. Do you think if she would have let you stay at home, you would have ended things with the OW and reconciled with your wife? Or would you have stayed in limbo as long as possible? I am not a stupid woman, I agree, I don't think he is being perfect.

[SidLyon]

Yes, as much as I agree that throwing him out would be the best way for him to "find his way home" one way or another, I really don't know if I have that luxury right now with two babies that don't sleep through the night and are teething. I did give him the boot for about 3 weeks, but was overly exhausted all the time and didn't give my job all that I could due to that (I can't afford to not succeed at work right now). Plus it is Christmas and his family is all flying in, so me kicking him out right now would be pretty rough for everyone.

 

Did your H cut things off right away on D day? Mine did not, so I think we are behind the eight ball on recovery. What did you do differently when he was living with you in the first few months after the affair? Did he want to work things out with you right away? Thanks so much for sharing your story and helping me with mine!

 

My H said he'd cut things off on d-day but this wasn't true as he continued to have some contact with her to "let her down lightly" (his words). Two days before Christmas that year I found that rather than delete her phone number, he had in fact changed her name to a man's name. This was 10 weeks after d-day and was a crushing blow to me that year. Subsequent review of the phone account showed that the number hadn't been used. He claims he did it straight after d-day and then "forgot" .. hmm.

 

I think it's fairly common for there to be these sort of hiccups after d-day, as it's often not the sort of clean break that everyone says is so necessary. Several months after d-day the OW did call him again and he told me about it immediately.

 

The difficulty for the BW is ascertaining if you are in fact in false reconciliation and the A is essentially ongoing. My H was obviously stressed by d-day and its aftermath. He was having physical reactions almost as bad as mine. I think he worked out for himself that continuing a life of deception wasn't going to do him any good.

[BetrayedH]

Yes he does. He has told me he doesn't want me to file. Frankly, I'm not sure why.

 

He doesn't want you to mess up his cake eating lifestyle. He would like the comforts of marriage AND his other woman. By filing for divorce, you would mess up his plan to have a compliant wife and single lifestyle. And exposure certainly happens once a divorce is filed - family, coworkers, and friends. I think fear of the disruption and the damage to their reputation is the leading reason for so many false reconciliations.

 

I'm not saying you have to throw him out and I sympathize with your difficulties with babies. I'm just providing what I know to give you the best chances of reconciliation and sadly, that's usually to be as harsh as possible at the beginning (which is both counter-intuitive and heart-wrenching). It's a sad reality that probably your best chances to reconcile after infidelity is to file or divorce as soon as possible. It usually shuts down the affair in a hurry. The fantasy is over and dealing with real-life is their only choice.

[SidLyon]

... It's a sad reality that probably your best chances to reconcile after infidelity is to file or divorce as soon as possible. It usually shuts down the affair in a hurry. The fantasy is over and dealing with real-life is their only choice.

 

I'd just like to address the bolded. In my country (Australia) and many other Western countries it's not possible to file for divorce until the couple have been separated for at least a year. This means we don't have the luxury of just turning up at court to file the divorce papers.

 

Before anybody asks, there are a few exceptions to this including a separation under one roof. The couple have to demonstrate that all family, friends and children have known for at least 12 months that the parties' marriage has irretrievably broken down. Separate finances, separate social life, no family social occasions and holidays etc all help. Generally it's not done here but theoretically possible and it's apparently difficult to sustain for a year.

 

Not everyone on LS is an American.

 

However I do agree that the threat of a divorce can help shut down the affair.

[Furious]

I'd just like to address the bolded. In my country (Australia) and many other Western countries it's not possible to file for divorce until the couple have been separated for at least a year. This means we don't have the luxury of just turning up at court to file the divorce papers.

 

Before anybody asks, there are a few exceptions to this including a separation under one roof. The couple have to demonstrate that all family, friends and children have known for at least 12 months that the parties' marriage has irretrievably broken down. Separate finances, separate social life, no family social occasions and holidays etc all help. Generally it's not done here but theoretically possible and it's apparently difficult to sustain

for a year.

 

Not everyone on LS is an American.

 

However I do agree that the threat of a divorce can help shut down the affair.

 

 

 

 

True, that in many countries you cannot file for divorce until one year has passed. But a formal and legal separation agreement can be established

before the one year mark.

 

Also, Sid, in your situation you exposed the affair to the OW's husband.

 

Confused has not exposed the affair to the OW's husband.

[ComingInHot]

Wait a minute. You wrote he Changed all his password AFTER he found out about the spywhere?!?!! Huge Red flag.

Total transparency is a must!! Didn't your councelor tell you that?! Tell him that?

My husband had already ended his A when I was told by exOW BUT his attitude did NOT change until mine did. I poured him a glass of wine got dressed to kill then calmly explained that I had had enough and I wasn't about to fight for someone who didn't want me for more than a cleaning lady, caregiver, chef etc... I explained that if he wanted this marriage to work then things changed like five minutes ago. I offered the door but he did an about face right then w/everything. I explained that I would be filing for D immediately if his exOW ever contacted him or me ever again then showed him the notes from my consultation.

Inform her BH. Blow their little R right out in the open.

File FIRST. legally it's in your favor to do so.

Get his new passwords asap.

I am so sorry!! I wish I do more than just write you...

[SidLyon]

True, that in many countries you cannot file for divorce until one year has passed. But a formal and legal separation agreement can be established

before the one year mark.

 

True, but you do actually have to be separated here.

 

Also, Sid, in your situation you exposed the affair to the OW's husband.

 

No I didn't.

 

Confused has not exposed the affair to the OW's husband.

 

I believe that exposure to the OW's husband is pretty well essential unless there are exceptional circumstances (such as in my case).

 

 

I just realized that the OP's H is not being transparent and giving her access (is this right?). This is not a good sign of someone willing to do anything to reconcile (unfortunately).

 

My responses in bold.

[ComingInHot]

That's what I'm saying too! He IMMEDIATELY changed his passwords on her!!

[Confused3232]

Wait a minute. You wrote he Changed all his password AFTER he found out about the spywhere?!?!! Huge Red flag.

Total transparency is a must!! Didn't your councelor tell you that?! Tell him that?

My husband had already ended his A when I was told by exOW BUT his attitude did NOT change until mine did. I poured him a glass of wine got dressed to kill then calmly explained that I had had enough and I wasn't about to fight for someone who didn't want me for more than a cleaning lady, caregiver, chef etc... I explained that if he wanted this marriage to work then things changed like five minutes ago. I offered the door but he did an about face right then w/everything. I explained that I would be filing for D immediately if his exOW ever contacted him or me ever again then showed him the notes from my consultation.

Inform her BH. Blow their little R right out in the open.

File FIRST. legally it's in your favor to do so.

Get his new passwords asap.

I am so sorry!! I wish I do more than just write you...

 

Thanks, I feel like all of us deserve a real hug! I did have access to EVERYTHING up until about a week ago. He wasn't calling her or anything online for the past three weeks. And the fact remains that he works with this awful woman, so he really doesn't need to call/text her when he can see her at work everyday, go to lunch or whatever and I will never know. At this point, I will only make myself crazy trying to figure this out. He needs to change his attitude towards me in order for me to feel comfortable that he has moved on.

 

Everyone already knows about the affair - I even heard that her husband knows but isn't doing anything about it (isn't telling her that he knows), their work knows, and all our friends and family. I think that is why the A has somewhat ended.

 

I am not against tossing the guy out on his butt, but I would prefer to wait until the twins were sleeping through the night (should be soon) and after the holidays.

 

In the meantime - how do I handle living with him? Yikes!

[Confused3232]

Oh and if asked, he would show me anything I wanted to see. He has to show me his phone records when ever asked and email or internet history/skype. That is an agreement that I made prior to him being able to come home. If he doesn't do this, it is divorce. And he knows it. He also knows that if I find out he is speaking to her, it is divorce. He tells me if there are any events or anything that she is at with him. I have set rules...trust me, I'm not a total push over!

[TiredFamilyGuy]

I add my voice to other posters.

 

Contact the other betrayed spouse. Daylight blows away affair fog better than anything else. Even if you think they know, you thought, you heard, people say - this is just hearsay so contact him. That will cut some of the fun out of any illicit contact., and give you a recourse if you feel they are at it again.

 

You are in an impossible situation. I'd say he's had his chance to commit back to you and has blown it. Also, and I am not saying you did wrong because I don't know your situation, he has not been provided with consequences sufficient for him to change his ways or to make a decision. Others say it hereabouts: "No consequences for actions, means no reasons to change".

 

Get a lawyer and file. Then see whether he can focus. I can't see why you would want to stay with this guiy - yes he is the father of your kids, I understand. But he's no prince. Contrary to what you might believe there are guys who want to take on a woman with kids already - because they are sterile or don't need kids to be their own to love them, so don't be afraid of kicking him out for that reason. [My friend Max is one such man, a really dear fellow, his bad luck is that the ladies with kids he picks are all hung up on their exes. It makes me somewhat grumpy on his behalf - and on yours!]

[Confused3232]

No...what he wants to do is have the benefits of home, marriage, his kids, financial security and everything that goes with it WHILE conducting his affair from the spare bedroom.

 

He's got the best of both worlds - he's still in his home being taken care of, he still sees his kids every day, he's not suffering any financial hardships by losing half of everything in a divorce battle, he's not having to be a 'weekend dad' due to every-other-weekend child visitation rules, he isn't having to live in an apartment while a good chunk of his money goes towards the child support for 2 kids, he doesn't look like the 'bad guy' because he lost his wife and family due to his scumbag behavior, and the list goes on and on.

 

And unfortunately, you're allowing him to do it.

 

I don't doubt that you are probably correct. But how do I know?? If he is really trying to move on from her and try and make our marriage work and I kick him out...then I am the jackass.

 

How will I know when he has REALLY ended the affair (if he hasn't already)? For those guys who have been there (thought you loved your mistress, aren't sure about your marriage/wife), what made you finally stop and do you think he has? Thank so much! If I so much as knew he called her, I would kick his ass to the curb, but I don't have anything concrete to do that...he says he ended it.

[Confused3232]

I add my voice to other posters.

 

Contact the other betrayed spouse. Daylight blows away affair fog better than anything else. Even if you think they know, you thought, you heard, people say - this is just hearsay so contact him. That will cut some of the fun out of any illicit contact., and give you a recourse if you feel they are at it again.

 

You are in an impossible situation. I'd say he's had his chance to commit back to you and has blown it. Also, and I am not saying you did wrong because I don't know your situation, he has not been provided with consequences sufficient for him to change his ways or to make a decision. Others say it hereabouts: "No consequences for actions, means no reasons to change".

 

Get a lawyer and file. Then see whether he can focus. I can't see why you would want to stay with this guiy - yes he is the father of your kids, I understand. But he's no prince. Contrary to what you might believe there are guys who want to take on a woman with kids already - because they are sterile or don't need kids to be their own to love them, so don't be afraid of kicking him out for that reason. [My friend Max is one such man, a really dear fellow, his bad luck is that the ladies with kids he picks are all hung up on their exes. It makes me somewhat grumpy on his behalf - and on yours!]

 

I think you are right. I have "cried wolf" with the divorce card one too many times that he probably doesn't take it seriously anymore. No, he is not a prince, but my feeling haven't gone away completely. We had a good marriage, but had a lot of uphill battles (cancer, ivf, miscarriages) in a matter of a couple years. That can take a big toll on a marriage. I know that there are men out there who would never cheat on their wife, but when 60% do, the odds are not in my favor. At least I know what I have with this one.

[Confused3232]

Why does everyone think he HASN'T ended the affair? What am I missing????

[BetrayedH]

Why does everyone think he HASN'T ended the affair? What am I missing????

 

Just experience. Very few WSs are honest or truly remorseful following Dday. Your husband is no exception. He couldn't be further from remorseful, in fact. Successful reconciliation is a very narrow path with landmines on either side. You're way off the path. We're all yelling at you to get back on the path. You're yelling back that you're going with your husband and we all see that he's the one that led you into the minefield in the first place. Hoping that he changes doesn't make him change regardless of how much you want it to work. The first stage of grief is denial and you're still in it.

[Furious]

Why does everyone think he HASN'T ended the affair? What am I missing????

 

 

Perhaps you husband is not physically in the affair but emotionally he is still there. He has told you he loves her and not you. He sleeps in the spare bedroom, he sees the OW at work everyday.

 

While you have only threatened divorce and he knows... it's only a threat.

You're even having his family over for the Christmas holidays.

 

You're too nice, and he knows that.

[Confused3232]

Perhaps you husband is not physically in the affair but emotionally he is still there. He has told you he loves her and not you. He sleeps in the spare bedroom, he sees the OW at work everyday.

 

While you have only threatened divorce and he knows... it's only a threat.

You're even having his family over for the Christmas holidays.

 

You're too nice, and he knows that.

 

You are right, he is at least emotionally still in it. But is the only way out of it, me kicking him out and filing for divorce? He might never come back, but then I guess I have my answer....

[Furious]

You are right, he is at least emotionally still in it. But is the only way out of it, me kicking him out and filing for divorce? He might never come back, but then I guess I have my answer....

 

I wish that I could take your pain away. I know it's not easy to make such a final decision. You need not rush, you need not pressure yourself to immediately end your marriage.

 

I see you are weighing the pro's and con's and are looking for what is best for you and your beautiful babies.

 

 

You are giving your husband time, and in time you will make your own decisions as to whether or not you believe your husband is all in and truly remorseful.

 

Hugs

Edited December 15, 2012 by Furious

[BetrayedH]

You are right, he is at least emotionally still in it. But is the only way out of it, me kicking him out and filing for divorce? He might never come back, but then I guess I have my answer....

 

This is a pretty good summary. Facing the consequences of their actions is sometimes enough to knock them out of their fog (if you care to believe in such a thing). Being patient or paralyzed gives them no motivation to treat you with the respect you deserve (something that is clearly lacking already). Filing divorce either works (and you can rescind it) or it puts you on the path to follow-thru with it. The bonus (or perhaps the best benefit) is that you begin setting standards for what you are willing to accept and this helps preserve your self-respect. He screwed up and he should be bending over backwards to reearn your trust. Instead, he's manipulated you into accepting crumbs. While some may say he's in a wayward fog, I think the betrayed spouse fog is just as dangerous to a reconciliation.

 

All that said, I'm also with Furious in that it can take you time to decide how to move forward and I respect someone who is slow and cautious. This moves at your timetable. It's easy for us to recommend filing for divorce; we don't have a dog in that fight. I respect anyone that is very cautious about ending a marriage. You're trying to keep your vows. Unfortunately, it's your H that has effectively thrown them away.

[ComingInHot]

Does his family know? The ones visiting for Christmas. Maybe they would have more luck getting through to him than you and idle threats of divorce.

My husband having to look into his big brothers eyes was a BIG fog lifter...

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh gosh honey, yes you are in denial up to your knees.

 

I totally feel for you because I kept trusting my husband about his flings and addictions too. Thought if he had space he'd figure it out. Set my "boundaries" by saying louder and bigger stuff. Etc etc etc.

 

He waffled for THREE YEARS. he even went to treatment for six weeks and was an EVEN WORSE PRICK when he got back.

 

The only thing that worked was the ass-booting out the door and him looking at a severe time-shortage with his daughter. Three months in the bank of his car he lived. I struggled everyday. He lived at Occupy Edmonton for a bit too.

 

He completely abandoned us. So I said "**** it" and then the neighbor got interested and I said "**** that" too because I didn't want stupid headache with another unstable guy. BUT it got back to him that I wasn't waiting around. That weekend he smacked himself in the head and started fixing things.

 

It took a looong time. We are still pulling through it but we are happy with each other now. He is addiction-free and I know better how to tell (in ways he doesn't realize).

 

But if he wants to toss it all and go down that dark path again.....he goes alone. Good riddance. I live the man. I will follow him through cancer, mental illness, his school struggles and even musical theatre. But I will not walk the road of adultery, addiction and domestic violence with him ever ever again.

 

I wish I'd booted him sooner.

[Radagast]

How will I know when he has REALLY ended the affair (if he hasn't already)? For those guys who have been there (thought you loved your mistress, aren't sure about your marriage/wife), what made you finally stop and do you think he has? Thank so much! If I so much as knew he called her, I would kick his ass to the curb, but I don't have anything concrete to do that...he says he ended it.

 

My decision went the other way. I left my marriage and am now happily married to my former lover. But there are a few things about your situation that drew my attention.

 

He said he loves her and does not love you. Most husbands on here it seems tell their wives that they "love them but are not in love with them". Your husband has taken it a step further, saying he does not love you. This is of concern to me. If he does not love you, he does not have your interests at heart. If he "loved you but was not in love with you" there would still the residual love still to work from. But in this case, it sounds as if it would need to be built up from nothing. Can it? Are you prepared to invest in a relationship with a man who does not love you, and tells you he does not love you? I have tried to rekindle a marriage with a wife I no longer loved, and I could not do it, and this was before I fell in love with another or had had an affair. It was simply the result of a separation from my then-wife, brought about by her, that gave me the space to realise I no longer loved her. I took her back when she begged because of the children, thinking we could reconcile if we both worked at it, but we could not. This might be an outcome you need to consider. How much effort are you willing to invest in trying to reconcile if there is a distinct possibility that it might not work?

 

Secondly, he has made no physical moves toward you, sleeps separately, does not hold your hand, etc. This for me also indicates that he has lost his connection with you. I don't know if that is possible to get back. From reading here it seems that most men who are ambivalent still feel some attraction to their wives, still keep up at least some token physical contact, unless prevented by their wives, and in many cases continue regular sex during and after the affair as a precursor to reconciliation (unless prevented by the wives). The fact that he is making no attempt to do so suggests to me that his desire has moved on. Would you be happy with a sexless marriage, if you were to reconcile?

 

You say he change his passwords, but shows you his mail, skype etc when you ask. That really is not the same at all. It is very easy to use private browsing sessions, to delete skype conversations, to wipe out records when you exit a session so that were someone to ask to see, you'd have nothing to show them. This is very different to granting them access to log in at any time, when you might be in the middle of something they might then catch you at, rather than only allowing supervised access once you have had time to erase your tracks. But also, as you say, he could grant you access to some things but simply create new avenues (new email accounts accessed in private browser sessions, etc) without even telling you, that you would have no access to. You can never be sure, but the fact that he is refusing you full access even to those avenues you currently know about suggests that he is still keeping private space for himself.

 

And of course they have full access to each other at work, and many opportunities to plan other avenues of access should he leave that job for another. You probably have no way of knowing, even if you ask his colleagues to spy for you. So looking for evidence or proof as a precursor to "kicking his ass to the curb" seems to me a little futile. The evidence would simply show he was careless in hiding his tracks (or didn't care if you found them) rather than whether or not there had been contact. Contact is perfectly possible, even likely, without evidence. Pinning your decision on the need for evidence is futile, in my view.

 

He claims he ended it, and perhaps he did. But many have ended it and started again, whether with intent or "because it just happened". His having ended it is no guarantee that it has stayed ended, or that it will - even if he moves job. It simply means she knows that it was discovered, and that if it resumes they will both have to be more careful. (If she's still interested. And that might be another factor. His "trying to work things out" at home might also coincide with his "waiting to see what her next move is" before he makes up his mind one way or another, and really commit.) I'm not saying he's lying, but the situation is highly volatile and his intentions may be changing from moment to moment, as the situation around him unfolds.

 

Which is why, in my view, you should not be placing so much weight on what's going down between them, and focus instead on what's going down between yourselves. Are you happy with the marriage as it currently is, with him sleeping in another room, but being there to help with the kids? Is that viable, longer term? If not, how long are you prepared to put up with that with no change, and what concrete changes are you wanting to see - and how soon?

 

What would reassure you in terms of his behaviour that your marriage has a future? Words on an internet forum are not the same as seeing action in your marriage. What would make you feel you are getting enough back to continue investing?

[Cali408]

Thank you, it has been enlightening to hear from you. Do you think if she would have let you stay at home, you would have ended things with the OW and reconciled with your wife? Or would you have stayed in limbo as long as possible? I am not a stupid woman, I agree, I don't think he is being perfect.

 

I was home and she was IRATE with me. I didn't care, I carried it on. When the second time I got caught, I had to make that decision. Believe me, I don't care how tired you are, throw him out. He is having his cake still. I would love to tell you, he's not, but it's not the case.

[CantgetoveritNY]

Confused,

 

I will tell you that when I told the wife of my WS's MM about the A, that ended the continued contact between them. My WS had broken off the A before that but continued to talk to the MM daily. She said it was to let him down easy. I know it was b/c she still loved him and could not stop. When I told the MM's wife he went NC. I can only hope for the same result for you. When my wife first ended the A but kept in contact with the AP she was of course not at all seeing what she had done was wrong. She blame shifted and had no remorse. It has been 5 months since she has talked to the AP and now, finally, I see some evidence of remorse. Some real desire to reconcile for good reasons, not just out of fear of losing her comfortable life. I've read here on LS and believe it is true that it takes a while of being away from the AP for the WS to reconnect and feel true emotion again for the BS. I would try telling the OW's H about the affair. No one else for now. That will cause enough turmoil for the moment. But definitely tell the OW's H. Good luck to you.

[jnel921]

My first husband cheated on me when I was pregnant with our second child and our son was only 1. I understand how devastated you feel. My husband just like yours said he didn't love me. I didn't give him any choices. I packed all of his stuff and that Monday when he went to work I asked my brothers-in-law to help me haul it over to his mothers.

 

Long story short, we did divorce. The pain of being alone with the kids I sacrificed my body to give him children because I loved him. Meanwhile he gave what was supposed to be mine to someone else and convinced himself she was the one.

 

You have to stay strong for your babies.This pain can make you go into premature labor as it did me. If this is his attitude let him go. Lean on your family for support and help. I am truly thankful for mine.

 

I am sure it is tough knowing everyday he is in the same place with her. He will never be honest about how he spends that time. I am sure he came back because he couldn't afford living in hotels and obviously the OW is not leaving her H any time soon.

 

Have you spoken to her? Maybe she needs to hear that you are a real person about to have this man's children.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this.