Pocky Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 How do people that decide to stay in their marriage deal with the emotional strain on their hearts after saying goodbye to the OM/OW? I have seen many posts where people have stated that they decided to work it out with their married partner regardless that they are completely in love with their OM/OW. How do you do this? How do you not feel torn in two when your heart wants to go to someone else and the only reason you're working on your marriage is because your head tells you it's the right thing to do? Do you eventually fall out of love with the OM/OW? Are you doomed to question your entire lives if your OM/OW was the right one for you? Do you ever feel like you've turned your back on true love by doing what you think is the right thing to do instead of doing what your heart tells you? Am I naive to question if there is one great love for each of us and if you lose it you will forever feel as though something were missing? How common is it that people walk away from love because the person they are in love with isn't necessarily right for them? How common is it that people pick lifestyle compatibility as opposed to true love? And if it were true love and the one you were supposed to spend your life with wouldn't you have lifestyle compatibility? (I know two different lines of thought here..So many questions filling my head..)
sinner Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Good questions, Pocky. For some, not all, an emotional, long term affair serves as an outlet for a sub-optimum marriage. In a perverse way, the affair, with the love, warmth, support and hot sex, distracts the MW or MM from what ails his or her marriage. In the short term, a love affair can keep a marriage together. This is especially true if the OM or OW is also married, and children are involved. The benefits, however, are usually shortlived. An affair is simply a relationship and most relationships end for one reason or another. When the affair ends, the MM or MW no longer has a crutch and must face not only the loss of a lover but a spouse who has become, over the years, an intimate stranger. Affairs are vampiric. They suck the life blood of emotional intimacy right out of a marriage. An affair , over time, corrodes the emotional ties that bind a husband and wife. I thus expect that for some the end of a long time affair also spells the end of the neglected marriage. Once a spouse ceases to be the emotional/sexual center of her spouse's universe, there's usually no going home again. In the wake of the ended affair, nothing, and no one, is left standing. You move on...
Author Pocky Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 In a perverse way, the affair, with the love, warmth, support and hot sex, distracts the MW or MM from what ails his or her marriage. What is it about the affair that makes the sex "hot"? Do people that have affairs return to their marriage and find they have difficulties enjoying the sex with their married partner? An affair is simply a relationship and most relationships end for one reason or another. When the affair ends, the MM or MW no longer has a crutch and must face not only the loss of a lover but a spouse who has become, over the years, an intimate stranger. Does the realization of what an affair is make it seem more intense and passionate than if it weren't an affair? Let me see if I can say it better. If two people were to meet and have a relationship while neither were involved do you think they would have the same emotional/passionate intensity that they have if they met while they were involved and had an affair? Does the energy surrounding an affair give the intensity which may under different terms not actually be there? You move on... How does one move on? It seems like so much emotion is invested in an affair so how does one move on and not feel completely lost?
sinner Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Affair sex is to marital sex as a line of cocaine is to a cup of coffee.It's magnum. Why? Because of the affair's forbidden nature and people, in affairs, always see their lover when he or she is looking and acting their best. That doesn't happen in marriage where you see someone in all stages of everyday life. An affair is the crack cocaine of romance. There's also brain chemistry involved. Read Mil Millington's "A Certain Chemistry," which is one of the best recent novels about affairs and all those pleasure cocktails our brain mixes. Affairs are all about hyperpleasure, extreme pain and withdrawal all of which take place under a web of deception. When you lose a lover, and are devastated, you must hide your despair and crushing loneliness. You certainly can't confide in your spouse. You're cut off from everyone except your ex-lover. That sometimes leads to resumptions of the affair. An affair is a relationship in hyperdrive. A marriage is a leisurely stroll. At some point, the affair crashes and burns and the marriage incinerates, too.
Author Pocky Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 So it is simply the momentum of an affair that gives life to the relationship and not that there is necessarily a connection between these two people? Are people more devastated when an affair ends than when a exclusive relationship ends? If so, why? Is the percentage of people leaving their marriages for their OM/OW low? Is the success rate low for these relationships?
Cis Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 I've been lurking on this forum for the past 4 months...almost half the entire length of my (first and hopefully last) affair. This is my debut post! Sinner is so right...although I hold hope that I will be able to repair my marriage. I've learned so much about myself. For me the object of my desire was so inappropriate that it is scary. But it was the most powerful drug I've ever experienced...and it wouldn't take much to pull me back into "using".
Author Pocky Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 For me the object of my desire was so inappropriate that it is scary. But it was the most powerful drug I've ever experienced...and it wouldn't take much to pull me back into "using". Did you realize that at the time or did it take ending the relationship and healing to see that the person wasn't the right one for you? Is there ever a time when we don't subconsciously dupe ourselves into thinking that the OM/OW is perfect for us? Does everyone ignore all the signs and just focus on the good points because they are so desperate for the passion/emotion/romance that satisfied within the affair?
Mr Spock Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 I also indentify with this-I still think of my ex MM now and then. It wouldn't take much to pull me back in-but I wouldn't be pursuing HIM-so I'd make the terms different.
Author Pocky Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 Mr. Spock - Did you think you had true love with your MM? Did you think that the two of you were destined to be together? If so, how long after the relationship ended did you ever think it wasn't true love? Or have you not thought that and you still believe it was?
Mr Spock Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 "True Love?" I fell in love with him-I still am to an extent, even though he's a turd who doesn't deserve it. I definetly wanted to be with him-and he didn't reciprocate except in the bedroom. It's been a few months since it ended-and I feel MUCH better about the whole thing now. Haven't pined for quite some time......once I had time to reflect on the situation, I realized that it was pretty silly, although my feelings were no less real at the time. I do miss the contact, the funny emails, his sense of humour. But I'll find something better.
meanon Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 So it is simply the momentum of an affair that gives life to the relationship and not that there is necessarily a connection between these two people? There's a connection, but the nature of the affair reflects the nature of the connection. Some affairs happen because of a problem in the primary relationship (it could be anything: boredom. low self esteem. lack of love etc). Sometimes people in this situation are ripe for an affair. They are an accident waiting to happen. If they meet someone they feel an attraction to and they have sex, the brain chemistry does the rest. Infatuation leading to "instant" love. They do feel a connection with a specific person but actually they could easily feel the same way about many, many other people. Often at the end of these relationships it is painfully clear that neither of the participants were really in love, there are no deep and lasting emotional bonds. These are the affairs that are least likely to end in success. Correspondingly, they are less likely to jettison a primary relationship. Affairs that result from two people falling in love in the same way that happens in ordinary relationships are different, for whatever reasons they are started. As well as all the pleasure of the illicit sex there is the building of genuine emotional bonds. These affairs tend to be much longer lasting and far more damaging to the primary relationship. That's the way it seems to me but it's an opinion based more on observation than experience.
Author Pocky Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 So generally speaking it's naive to think that when you're participating in an affair, regardless of whether or not you're the MM/MW or OM/OW, that you have found real love and that the only reason why the relationship seems so intense is because of the type of energy that surrounds an affair?
sinner Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Affairs that result from two people falling in love in the same way that happens in ordinary relationships are different, for whatever reasons they are started. As well as all the pleasure of the illicit sex there is the building of genuine emotional bonds. These affairs tend to be much longer lasting and far more damaging to the primary relationship. So right, meanon. There's the thrill ride affair, which, while intense, doesn't stick. Many marriages can survive these intense, but short-lived, recreational couplings. Then there's the marriage-alternative affair. These unions operate on multiple levels. They are long-term, emotionally and psychologically intimate and the lover becomes the de facto spouse and the affair, the de facto marriage. These marriage busting unions leave little in their wake when they end. The moral: if you must have an affair, and you want your marriage to survive the inevitable damage, elect the thrill ride option. Of course, life and love may not be so accomodating.
Author Pocky Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 Then there's the marriage-alternative affair. These unions operate on multiple levels. They are long-term, emotionally and psychologically intimate and the lover becomes the de facto spouse and the affair, the de facto marriage. These marriage busting unions leave little in their wake when they end. I think is what I have experienced and while my husband isn't aware of what I'm feeling on the inside I am an emotional wreck..
Cis Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 It's hard for me to categorize my experience. Because he live 3,000 miles apart there was the element of the thrill ride...but my love object was a magical, mystical, Jungian, shamanistic, psychologically intense, near death experience, persona that so mesmorized me. Plus he knew me when I was 9 years old and we were in school together until we were 15. We hadn't talked or seen each other in 30 years, but it was so easy to quickly escalate my feelings to a point of romantic obcession. Wierd.
Brenda Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by meanon There's a connection, but the nature of the affair reflects the nature of the connection. Some affairs happen because of a problem in the primary relationship (it could be anything: boredom. low self esteem. lack of love etc). Sometimes people in this situation are ripe for an affair. They are an accident waiting to happen. If they meet someone they feel an attraction to and they have sex, the brain chemistry does the rest. Infatuation leading to "instant" love. They do feel a connection with a specific person but actually they could easily feel the same way about many, many other people. Often at the end of these relationships it is painfully clear that neither of the participants were really in love, there are no deep and lasting emotional bonds. These are the affairs that are least likely to end in success. Correspondingly, they are less likely to jettison a primary relationship. Affairs that result from two people falling in love in the same way that happens in ordinary relationships are different, for whatever reasons they are started. As well as all the pleasure of the illicit sex there is the building of genuine emotional bonds. These affairs tend to be much longer lasting and far more damaging to the primary relationship. meanon. How do you work out which type of affair you are having? Is the first type (the one which ends badly) over quite quickly? I think I may be experiencing the second affair you mentioned as we have been very close for a number of years. If it was just a fling it would burn itself out quite quickly, right?
meanon Posted August 13, 2004 Posted August 13, 2004 Sometimes the first type can turn into the second type . People report the same feelings in both - they think it's love and feel a deep attachment to the other person. I think two things can help distinguish the strength of the bond. Firstly, (leave the heart at home when you think about this one) how much do you actually know about the person and do they know about you? Do they know you as well as or better than your best friend? That's a sign of true emotional intimacy. Secondly, what effect does it have on the primary relationship? Does it replace the intimacy in the marriage? You're right Brenda, a fling would tend to burn out quickly. In the longer lasting affairs it is still a minority that result in the MM/MW leaving the marriage for the OW/OM permanently (but a significant minority - I can't remember the stats. Is it 30%?). In the majority of cases the affair makes a flawed marriage bearable (as sinner described - the OW as her own worst enemy). That's why when they end the marriage ends too.
LoneStar49 Posted September 19, 2004 Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by meanon Firstly, (leave the heart at home when you think about this one) how much do you actually know about the person and do they know about you? Do they know you as well as or better than your best friend? That's a sign of true emotional intimacy. This is something I've given thousands of hours of thought to, especially in the past year or so, and I suppose it is a great part of the reason this entire break-up is so crushing to me. I honestly feel like I know this man better than I've ever known any person in my entire life (and it is many years of living) and in many respects, better than he knew himself at times. Even he would admit to that! And by far, he knows/knew me better than I've ever allowed anyone to know me and again, the same thing holds true - he knew me better at times than I knew myself. Maybe it came from thousands of hours of talking - one of the things we did best - I'm not certain. Somehow, someway, it was easy to share the innermost thoughts and feelings, to admit the bad parts of ourselves to the other as well as the good parts. Both of us tended to be rather closed off to others. Friendly, outgoing, social...but where the chips really counted, nobody really knew either of us. But, and here comes the big BUT! As well as I know/knew him, the one thing I would have staked my life on is that he would have never done to me what he did. Just disappear from my life within 2-3 hours of talking to me. That is the one thing I cannot reconcile, and I don't think I'll ever be able to do so.
meanon Posted September 19, 2004 Posted September 19, 2004 LoneStar, I've read your recent posts. I'm sure you will be able to come to terms with this but only when you have some idea what it is you have to come to terms with. I'd concentrate your efforts in establishing that he is alive and well. Email him again, call the house, whatever it takes. As you did before, make it clear you are not attempting a reconciliation or even renewed contact. It's possible to move on without this knowledge but it will be much, much harder. Until the day I die, I'll never understand how someone could take almost 4 years and toss it aside as if it was nothing. I'm afraid this is a ghost that will be with me forever. You don't imagine that sort of knowledge of another person. You didn't know everything, that he had the capacity to do this, for example. That makes you doubt your judgement and question whether what you shared was real. What you knew was true, it just wasn't everything. Try and have confidence in what you know to be true. You loved each other, it wasn't nothing, it was special to you both. Why he would walk away from that is another matter. Once you are able to narrow the focus of your attention to that then you will find a way through this.
Nosmas Posted September 19, 2004 Posted September 19, 2004 Sinner, again I'm struck at how truth might be reflected: E.G.: Through the looking glass we go.............................................. The benefits, however, are usually shortlived. An marriage is simply a relationship and most relationships end for one reason or another. When the marriage ends, the MM or MW no longer has a crutch and must face not only the loss of a lover but a spouse who has become, over the years, an intimate stranger. Marriages are vampiric. They suck the life blood of emotional intimacy right out of an affair. A marriage , over time, corrodes the emotional ties that bind a husband and wife. I thus expect that for some the end of a long time marriage also spells the end of the neglected affair. Once a spouse ceases to be the emotional/sexual center of her spouse's universe, there's usually no going home again. In the wake of the ended marriage, nothing, and no one, is left standing. You move on... I'd guess how you would handle the decision to remain with or without your spouse is relative to your position: On what side of the mirror are you on, Pocky?
LoneStar49 Posted September 19, 2004 Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by meanon I'd concentrate your efforts in establishing that he is alive and well. Email him again, call the house, whatever it takes. As you did before, make it clear you are not attempting a reconciliation or even renewed contact. It's possible to move on without this knowledge but it will be much, much harder. I suspect you are right, meanon, but for some reason, I just can't bring myself to do that. I left two messages and he didn't return my calls. As I said in the other thread, in the second message I said something along the lines of "I understand if it is over, but I just want to make certain you are OK. Please either call or e-mail - just a note saying it is over and you know me well enough to know that I'll never bother you again if that's what you've decided upon." - or something like that. Anyway, he didn't respond. As much as I care for him (and he knows it), I can't bring myself to beg for his attention. If this is his decision, it is one I have no choice but to live with. But you know? For some reason that I can't explain and really isn't even rational, I don't think it is over. I don't know when, but I honestly believe I'll hear from him again. Just a deep-down-in-the-gut feeling. Maybe it's only because we shared a lot and went through a lot in the past few years. Unfinished business or something. But, I do appreciate your thoughts and you are right on target with this statement... That makes you doubt your judgement and question whether what you shared was real.
meanon Posted September 19, 2004 Posted September 19, 2004 I agree it would be counterproductive to do anything that makes you feel like you are begging for attention. If you can't resolve this any other way, however, do challenge yourself. You are not asking for his attention. He contacted you repeatedly over a long period of time yet you still respect him, don't you? You should never lose your integrity. On the other hand, if you are secure in yourself you can afford to take more risks with your pride, safe in the knowledge that no matter what anyone else thinks of you, the person whose opinion matters most is your own. This is all about finding a way to live with yourself and your experience, rather than about how to influence him. I honestly believe I'll hear from him again. Just a deep-down-in-the-gut feeling. Maybe it's only because we shared a lot and went through a lot in the past few years. Unfinished business or something. For what it's worth I suspect you are right. Gut instinct usually is
guest Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 Originally posted by Pocky Are you doomed to question your entire lives if your OM/OW was the right one for you? Do you ever feel like you've turned your back on true love by doing what you think is the right thing to do instead of doing what your heart tells you? Am I naive to question if there is one great love for each of us and if you lose it you will forever feel as though something were missing? How common is it that people walk away from love because the person they are in love with isn't necessarily right for them? How common is it that people pick lifestyle compatibility as opposed to true love? And if it were true love and the one you were supposed to spend your life with wouldn't you have lifestyle compatibility? (I know two different lines of thought here..So many questions filling my head..) I'm not married and in an affair so can't fully answer this, but here are my thoughts on the latter. I think these are all questions that can be applied to any relationship between two single people, single and married or married and married. I think it is extremely common for people to pick lifestyle compatibility over other considerations, which can lead to a good relationship and can sometimes be a mistake. And "love" does not equal lifestyle compatibility, compatibility has to be worked at to a degree whatever the situation. There are no guarantees, you can always look back and say was that a mistake?, was that the true love? etc., whatever the relationship. I find it a turn off, not a turn on, that the mm I am emailing is married, this is what is holding me back from meeting him, if he weren't married I would have met him quite a while ago.
9Lives Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 Originally posted by LoneStar49 I suspect you are right, meanon, but for some reason, I just can't bring myself to do that. I left two messages and he didn't return my calls. As I said in the other thread, in the second message I said something along the lines of "I understand if it is over, but I just want to make certain you are OK. Please either call or e-mail - just a note saying it is over and you know me well enough to know that I'll never bother you again if that's what you've decided upon." - or something like that. Anyway, he didn't respond. As much as I care for him (and he knows it), I can't bring myself to beg for his attention. If this is his decision, it is one I have no choice but to live with. But you know? For some reason that I can't explain and really isn't even rational, I don't think it is over. I don't know when, but I honestly believe I'll hear from him again. Just a deep-down-in-the-gut feeling. Maybe it's only because we shared a lot and went through a lot in the past few years. Unfinished business or something. But, I do appreciate your thoughts and you are right on target with this statement... I been thru this and it is terrible. If he did it once he will do it again. He must care about you and dont necessary have the guts to discuss ending the relationship or he is going thru something...either way, he is not considering your feeling...he is being selfish. It is about him right now. You kept him strong and now you will see what is really going on in his world. I wish you nothing but the best here.
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