breakup over religion?

[shahjahan]

Ok, to keep it short:

 

1) Dating for six months, fantastic time, great intellectual and emotional connection, in spite of religious and political differences (me: agnostic, left-wing; he: recently-converted Catholic, right-wing).

 

2) Suddenly he says he wants to break up because of "rational reasons" (this has apparently nothing to do with his feelings for me, which he says are always the same, but they are "irrelevant"), doesn't see our relationship working in a more distant future, due to our differences. And a relationship that does not lead to marriage (we hand't really talked about this seriously) is immoral and he wishes to be consistent with his faith.

 

3) The next day we meet and I explain that we're not as different as we think. I open up my heart and tell him openly that I really want to be with him. He changes his mind, apologises, cries, says he loves me. Things seem to go back to normal.

 

4) On the same weekend, after a serious emotional breakdown from his side, he comes to my place and says (hysterically crying) that in spite of the "second chance" I have to let him go. He feels dispair instead of hope, he is entirely drained of all energy, he cannot bring himself to fight for something he cannot really believe in.

 

5) I said sure, I'm not going to force you into anything, I accept your decision, and please remember that I'm always here for you. He says "I don't know what the future will bring, maybe we can hit it off again in a few months, or sth, I don't know, but right now I cannot cope".

 

6) Two weeks later (after a few casual meetings in university) he offers to go to dinner together. It was enjoyable, we didn't talk about our relationship directly, but we did discuss our lives, our problems, our views... As we were saying goodbye, he said he was sorry if I had expected something else, that it's not like he's stopped thinking about me, but he needs to figure out what he wants in life and where he wants to go. I said, fine, I am ok, I miss you a lot but I can cope with my life and I'm patient. He said "Im not asking for your patience" and hugged me.

 

7) Two days later (it was my birthday), we met in university again, and he gave me a birthday gift

 

8) Then, we meet at a party, I had the impression like he was acting VERY distant.

 

9) Almost no contact since, but we agreed to have a coffee together on friday, before the christmas break.

 

10) I know there is no one else (at least so far), cause I had asked (He said "trust me, it would be much easier, if it was the case".)

 

11) Is this just some personal crisis? Why is he leaving a string attached? (or maybe I'm just imagining he is) Why would you break up with someone you say you love?

 

12) I really, really love him and care about him and feel like if we do not try again, it is a giant wasted opportunity. I would never stand between him and his religion, which I fully respect. However troubled his childhood might have been, and however twisted the ideas in his head right now, I really want to be with him.

 

13) What do I do?? How do I help him? How do I let him understand that this is all a mistake?

 

Thank you very much in advance for your thoughts and advice,

 

Sincerely,

Edited December 12, 2012 by shahjahan
too long :)

[Chi townD]

Maybe I'm not seeing it but I don't know where he's dumping you for religon.

 

Hell, I'm a Catholic and I'm pretty sure he's not as devote as you say.

 

Does he have premartial sex? Big no no!

 

Does he go to confession every week? It's apparently required for hard core catholics!

 

Did you use any kind of birth control? Big no no with Catholics.

 

Does he go to Mass every Sunday and on important dates with the Church such as Ash Wednsday? Does he do the stations of the cross?

 

Does he obstain from meat of Fridays except for fish regardless if it's Lent or not? Hardcore Catholics do.

 

Those are just a few examples of what hardcore Catholics do. Therefore, if his excuse of ending it because of diffences in beliefs is stupid if HE isn't even following the rules of the faith.

 

Therefore, he's giving you BS excuses.

 

(at least now he has a reason to go to confession because he's lying)

Edited December 12, 2012 by Chi townD

[shahjahan]

Well, he sees it's religion AND politics => general outlook on family life etc... which is quite far-fetched, I think... He said, for instance, that he's afraid I'd oppose it if we ever had children and he wanted to take them to church (as a matter of fact I would NEVER oppose it, quite the opposite!). It's that we have slightly different views on issues such as abortion, gay rights... which bothers him, he says all these things are now good subjects for an interesting discussion, but when you have to take important life decisions, it becomes impossible :/ Plus, feelings are "irrelevant" for building a stable relationship, shared values are the most important thing (according to him).

 

He actually only converted in march this year, and he seems to be taking it rather seriously, although he was hiding it from me a little bit for a while...

 

He recently went on pilgrimage to Rome, he goes to confession regularly, to mass every sunday and on all the important holidays, he goes to a Bible reading group once a week...

 

As for premarital relations, he says he knows it's sinning but he can rationalise it to himself if he knows that marriage will happen soon anyway... I know it is not very strict, but most catholics I know do exactly the same thing. (same with birth control - although he opposes my using hormonal contraceptives).

 

I'd say he's a "rationalist" hardcore catholic... if that makes sense.

[shahjahan]

I am just afraid he's really over me, but wants to come off as "the nice guy" and that's why he (somewhat) stays in touch. I don't know if he realises that this hurts me even more, this "delaying the decision" and acting as if we were just friends.

[KathyM]

I'm sure it's very difficult for him to leave you. It sounds like he's really in love with you and this is very painful for him. He has had to choose between his faith and you, and he has chosen his faith. I know you don't think there has to be a choice, but any true Christian will tell you that marrying a non-Christian is not Biblical, and it not only undermines the believer's faith, but is a cause for contention should you have children. Trying to raise a child in the Christian faith when one of the parents is an unbeliever is very difficult, and he realizes that. He has chosen his faith over you, hard as that was for him. But he is trying to let you down gently rather than going NC. I'm sorry, but it's probably for the best. Major core differences do not make for a compatible marriage over the long run.

[Radu]

I knew a guy like this, highly religious even though he hid it, passive-agressive, raised by single mom who was also very big on religion [mommy's boy].

 

So i'll be honest with you, religion is for him just a crutch that helps him rationalize his decisions and makes him feel like less of the 'bad guy' for following his subconscious.

[shahjahan]

Now I'm really feeling down... :(

 

He sent me an e-mail earlier this afternoon (as if he couldn't tell me things in person? after all, we live nearby, and we go to the same university!)... to "state the facts the way he sees them". Here's the gist of it:

 

He says it seems clear to him from what he's heard from others (I wonder who might have talked to him about us...) that I had misunderstood his words. He says he had tried to convey that he didn't see any future in this, and that the primary reason he couldn't believe or commit to it was of a 'practical' nature. That is, incompatibility.

 

One of the things imperative to him is to have time and space to rearrange what he felt had become an unfruitful situation into something conducive to how he needs his life to be, and for that he needs compatibility with a partner, and more importantly, he needs to believe in it. From that point, he says, there can be compromises made, but without such basis, it is pointless.

 

He does miss me, but he also misses things from every previous relationship has has been in as well. He doesn't throw away those things lightly.

 

There he writes that there is nothing I can do to make him change his mind about ending our relationship. If anyone, he would have to be the one who believed in it and take that decision if it should work. And he says, that is not where he is right now, neither practically nor emotionally.

 

So again, hopefully so I have a clearer understanding, I need to let him go. Things will not change in any way he can foresee, and it is very very upsetting if in some way he was leading me to believe otherwise. He respects me very much, he sees I have a number of fantastic qualities, and I am indeed very attractive to him (those things won't change, he says). But he will not pursue this any further, though someone else most certainly will, if I let them.

 

From the point of view of a Christian, he can see the emotional hurt in this situation as a result in part of what he has been doing, which is to engage in a close emotional physical relationship that has meant a lot to both of us, but disregarding the traditional approach his religious beliefs hold as the goal we're supposed to strive for (marriage), by not committing fully before allowing each other to bond so closely.

 

Finally, he writes, it hurts for him too, on multiple levels, but that will pass, so please let the wound he has left behind start to heal, and sorry for the pain.

 

 

I am very, very very sad

[todreaminblue]

this makes me more afraid to date than anything else....i recently foudn my faith.....and finally feel at home even though i am still working on my issues.....i dotn want to dat esoemoen where this is goign to be an issue...because i am rptoective and passionate abotu it....i think someone who really liked me wouldnt want me to spend so much time with involvement in the church i find it enlightening and where i want to be, my family have accepted it......i dont want to have to go through this again like another poster said its contention...i dont need that ......deb

[movingon12]

Well, at least, to his credit, he has made his feelings clear - there's is none of the usual confusing 'but I'll always love you', 'I need you in my life' BS that you can sometimes get.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. I honestly don't think this is anything to do with religion though. Or if it is, he's getting pressure from someone somewhere. Whatever the case, he's not prepared to make an effort to resolve or overlook the differences between you, and that's all you need to know. It's time to go NC.

[Gottabestrong]

I am sorry to hear that Shah, but I also think it is good that he gave you closure and is clearly telling you that it is over. Now you don't have to hold on to false hope of him changing his mind and coming back in the future. All you can do now is heal and move on with your life.

 

He clearly is not the right guy for you, so the sooner you heal from this breakup, the faster your heart will be open for something new and you will find the guy who WANTS to be with you and will not have any doubts about your future.

 

It gets better, I promise. 8 years ago when I joined this website I thought I had just lost the love of my life and it took me a long time to get over him - mostly because I did not break all contact - but after a few years I met someone else and when I looked back at my old relationship I realized that this new guy was much better for me. And right now, if I could reconcile with any of my old boyfriends, the original one would not be number one on my list.

 

Hugs!

[TaraMaiden]

How old are you both?

he sounds like some fervent adolescent twit spouting a load of bullschytt, to be brutally frank.

 

As for premarital relations, he says he knows it's sinning but he can rationalise it to himself if he knows that marriage will happen soon anyway... I know it is not very strict, but most catholics I know do exactly the same thing. (same with birth control - although he opposes my using hormonal contraceptives).

 

I'd say he's a "rationalist" hardcore catholic... if that makes sense.

 

No, what he's doing is moving the goalposts to suit his own train of thinking, to make himself feel less guilty. Premarital sex is a no-no to a devout catholic. It's hypocritical, but then, an awful lot of Catholics and Catholicism, is. As an ex Catholic myself, that is..........

Edited December 14, 2012 by TaraMaiden

[shahjahan]

You are right, Taramaiden. I am 27, he is 29. Probably it si the case, that he is bending the rules as it pleases him. But well, who am I to judge.

[TaraMaiden]

He's a mess.

 

From your posts, I really thought I was reading about some 18-year-old caught up in some transitional pubescent religiously-confusing tangle.

 

Dare I say it, you are better off without him.

His mind is just one confused ball of commitment and conscience, and frankly, supporting his knot of Gordian proportions is not your job, responsibility or duty.

He really needs to sort his own mess out.

[rn0408]

I'm Catholic but I would never force anyone I'm dating with to change what they believe in to marry me, and I would never change what I believe in to marry somebody else. I also believe in birth control and evolution.

 

My family is Catholic and they would prefer me to marry a Catholic..first of all I don't care what they think, and I don't feel like getting married. I actually love life being single and regret even dating

 

 

I say get rid of him because he has no backbone to accept you for who you really are. I have dated girls with different religions and one was even didn't believe in monotheism.

 

CUT EM!!!

[Chi townD]

LOL!!! Well, hell! If I knew I could rationalize premartial sex as "Well, I plan on marrying her anyway. So, it should be okay." I would have thought that with any girl I was with. Hell, I would have become a complete man wh*re because I would have been planning on everybody!!!!!

[shahjahan]

For a while, I thought whether I should answer his email, but I finally sat down and did it. Just to state some things clearly.

 

Thank you for taking your time to write this e-mail. Indeed, a conversation is clearly preferable, but I understand this is probably emotionally easier for you.

 

I don't really know what you might have heard about me from others, and I fear it might have been somewhat twisted. Not many people have asked, and those who have, may have gotten the impression they apparently did, because I naturally have found it rather hard to reconcile myself with the thought of losing you, especially given the rather turbulent, back-and-forth character of our break-up. There were certain things you said as you were saying goodbye that did not allow me to simply close the curtain and forget about you. I did, however, let you go, and got on with my life as I had to. I beg your pardon, if you heard something odd, it is rather uncomfortable for me to hear that others take the liberty of interpreting my words and putting them forward to you.

 

The reason it takes a while for me to heal is that I had never realised I was, excuse the harsh wording, on some sort of a "trial run" during the last six months. Contrary to what I had anticipated, I took this relationship seriously, because of the strength of the bond I felt there was between us, and because you have been overwhelmingly loving towards me. You like to emphasise the little incidents when you believe you didn't act accordingly, and sure, you are only human, so am I, we have our weaknesses, and I have said and done quite a few things to you I wish I never had. In my case, I disregarded all of those little things, because there are no perfect people, and there are no perfect relationships. In other words, I was quick to forget your coming home intoxicated at 6 am, if the first thing you did was apologise, tell me you loved me three dozen times in ten minutes, and then fall asleep in my arms (and that was barely forty days ago). Because of that, because of many other times when you proved to me I could count on you, and because of how much I enjoyed many aspects of our relationship (and yes, that includes our political differences in particular), it is only natural that I felt committed to you, even though I never really said it (my mistake), and that I gave you priority over other things in my life.

 

I didn't check we were on the same page, because most of the time I didn't feel like I needed to. I never heard a word of complaint or criticism from you (looking back, I would have much appreciated that). From my point of view, things seemed to be going well. And yes, I always believed our supposed ideological incompatibility was as deceiving and superficial as the nametags other people may choose to put on either of us. Had we really been incompatible, we would have probably had far more mundane, everyday conflicts, at least this is what it seems to me. What mattered to me was trust, love and the emotional and intellectual connection, as well as the simple, day-to-day living beside you, which gave me no ground to believe it would ever cease to be good, or if it did, it might then be for some other reason that has not arisen yet, and no amount of analysis would help me predict the future.

 

It made me very sad to realise you had a different opinion, and even more so, that you had never really shared those doubts with me before taking a decision. I certainly wasn't fully aware of how important your faith was for you. There is much I would have done and said otherwise (less carelessly), had I known this.

 

But I am fully aware that the damage is done and I have absolutely no intention of doing anything to change what is in your head or what is in your heart. You know all too well what is in mine, and it will likely stay that way for some time, regardless of what I do to get over it. This is simply how I am. I find it hard to be happy with your decision, because it has caused me a lot of pain, but I have most certainly accepted it. Should you ever change it, which seems unlikely, I would probably welcome you back into my life, at least I have no reason to do otherwise.

 

If I regret anything, and you're very right about this, is not having dated as most couples do, before jumping straight to level two. I can see it is an important stage we have skipped, and it probably would have avoided us a lot of misunderstandings if we had done it properly

 

The next day, we ran into each other at University (I really wished it wouldn't happen), and he insisted we go for a coffee together. I didn't want to, because I thought what is said is said, and I have really nothing to add...

But well, after all, I guess it was good that I wrote this e-mail. When we sat down he asked me not to be angry at him, said he understands me very well, and sees clearly what I have to say. Still, it is what it is, what is meant to be, will happen anyway and time will verify it all, but please don't walk around thinking about it. He apologised for the fact that I got "caught up in the cross-fire of his spiritual transition". After all, we hooked up only a month and a half after his conversion. As he says, he had 10 years of adult life without religion, and certain habits/desires/feelings/impulses die hard. But his principles are what they are and he needs to be consistent with them to have the kind of life he wants. So we couldn't continue the way we did, or move together, as enjoyable as it was, because he didn't see a long-term future in it due to our differences, and his spirituality wouldn't allow it anyway ("How would I look the priest in the face if we lived together?"). And yes, it is extremely painful for him (he cried again) still and will be for a while, but the conflict of living in a "non-marriage-orriented" relationship was simply not possible. He says he is in such a turmoil right now that he needs as few things as possible to deal with and that was too much.

I simply wished him Merry Christmas, and told him I understand that he really needs to give his life the structure his religion demands and I only wish he had told me before, instead of hiding a lot of it from me (he now goes to mass several times a week, apparently), and if it makes him happy, so be it.

Time to go NC.

[TaraMaiden]

Ugh.

 

Yup, I agree. NC it is....

[Radu]

I know many women who cry less than this guy does.

 

Just who or what raised him ?

[shahjahan]

So, here's the thing: almost a month of NC from my side (he did sent me a couple fo christmas messages), and now I get a message from him inviting me over for dinner. At his place. "I don't know how you'll react to this and I'll understand this if you don't think it's a good idea, but...." kind of message. WTF?

 

After giving it some thought, I politely declined (by message) saying I'll be extremely busy this week (which is true), but what the hell is he up to? Is he really so silly to believe I'd be totally ok with a friendly chat over dinner at his place where we used to spend so many evenings together as a couple? Really??? I can't believe it's a "let's be friends and catch up" thing after I didn't contact him at all.

 

What is this thing about, I wonder, inviting your ex alone to your place for dinner? After all, we will see each other in class ANYWAY, so what's the point?