movingon12 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Its not about trust. Its about the desire to be romanced. Getting stuff and having men do things for them make women feel romanced and they like it. Its no different than men's desire to get sex. Its the same selfish motivation. For some - maybe. Personally I couldn't care less about being 'romanced'. But I would never have sex with a man I didn't trust. Normally it takes more than a couple of dates to build up that level of trust - sometimes less. For the women who are saying they wouldn't want to sleep with every guy they had a first date with, I'm not surprised: there's no way you could like (enough), be attracted to (enough) and trust (enough) every man you have a first date with. The question is this: Gentlemen of LS! Imagine you've been on 2 dates with a girl that you really liked, found attractive, enjoyed talking to, had great chemistry with, and with whom you ended up having sex with after the 2nd date (a mutual, spontaneous, 'one thing led to another' experience). Would you break up with this woman that you like, simply because she had slept with you? If yes, is that because you think she must have really low standards because she slept with you so easily, or is it that you're worried about how many others she's slept with and it makes you feel insecure, or is it because you assume she's not interested in a real relationship or is there another reason?
Els Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I would hope that at 40 years old, a man is finally over the disney movies he used to watch as a kid. Sure he may be special but that doesn't mean he is the only special man that she has ever ran into. But in Disney movies the man is always prepared to wait however long that special girl needs, and/or slay a dragon just to have her hold his hand! 1
ascendotum Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Gentlemen of LS! Imagine you've been on 2 dates with a girl....... Would you break up with this woman that you like, simply because she had slept with you? No. If its dating as opposed to meeting a woman in a bar, then if I am going for a 2nd date, then I like her to want more than a hit & run. She might not be my dream girl and its not going to be a LTR, but I wont fake enthusiasm for more dating with her just with a target on whats between her legs. Would I be worried about how many others she's slept with...depends..if she has not been single for too long then no, but if she has had long periods out of relationships, then I would a little but reality is I wont get to know the truth if she has been clocking up a lot of cock.
Emilia Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 ROFL - says one of the many embittered and chronically single "men" on LS (a/k/a The Island of Misfit Toys). I'm sure you're hitting them two at a time, stud boy. your posts are hilarious. you are one of my favourite female posters.
Andy_K Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Exactly. When Ive had guys get pissy with me when I didnt jump into bed with them, I remind them of all their past comments about slutty girls. I usually say "if I was that easy I would have had 30 sexual partners by now, and then youd be calling me names" that usually shuts them up. Guys seem to expect you to sleep with them quickly but get turned off if youve done the same thing with other men. They want you to be their slut only, to make them feel oh-so-important. Not into it At the risk of sounding like a cliché, all guys are different. With virtually every girl I've dated, within 1-3 dates it goes one of two ways - we have sex, or one of us decides we're not a good match. I don't judge anyone for jumping into bed soon. I prefer the honesty it shows, and I'd sooner be one of the guys that a girl sleeps with early on than one she makes wait in an effort to prove she's 'not like that'. I doubt I'm the only one like this.
phineas Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 For some - maybe. Personally I couldn't care less about being 'romanced'. But I would never have sex with a man I didn't trust. Normally it takes more than a couple of dates to build up that level of trust - sometimes less. For the women who are saying they wouldn't want to sleep with every guy they had a first date with, I'm not surprised: there's no way you could like (enough), be attracted to (enough) and trust (enough) every man you have a first date with. The question is this: Gentlemen of LS! Imagine you've been on 2 dates with a girl that you really liked, found attractive, enjoyed talking to, had great chemistry with, and with whom you ended up having sex with after the 2nd date (a mutual, spontaneous, 'one thing led to another' experience). Would you break up with this woman that you like, simply because she had slept with you? If yes, is that because you think she must have really low standards because she slept with you so easily, or is it that you're worried about how many others she's slept with and it makes you feel insecure, or is it because you assume she's not interested in a real relationship or is there another reason? Why is it LS women insist all men demand sex on the 1st or 2nd date when i've yet to see any LS man in this thread claim sex has to happen by the 1st or 2nd date? Where exactly is this 1st or 2nd date time frame coming from? alternatively LS women also throw out an equally silly time frame of 2+ months?!?! Really? I know very few women who would wait even a month for a guy they were attracted to & liked. 2 extreme's that are not the norm treated as such. I mean seriously, if every man you dated lost interest because he expected sex by the 2nd date, you are accepting offers from the wrong type of guy.
Lonely Ronin Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Gentlemen of LS! Imagine you've been on 2 dates with a girl that you really liked, found attractive, enjoyed talking to, had great chemistry with, and with whom you ended up having sex with after the 2nd date (a mutual, spontaneous, 'one thing led to another' experience). Would you break up with this woman that you like, simply because she had slept with you? No I personally wouldn't. Only dumb, insecure, or egotistic people break up for stuff like this.
Taramere Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) 5 dates is a long time... you wont keep a guy interested without physical intimacy for 5 dates... What? How many men have you dated in order to reach that definitive sounding conclusion? I'm struggling to think of a time a man ever lost interest in me because I didn't leap into bed with him. If it's happened, then it's only happened with the least memorable men....in which case, no loss. I think a month or two is fine, if that's what the woman generally needs in order to feel comfortable. Can't imagine any men who were genuinely interested in a woman deciding against seeing her again on the basis that she hadn't slept with him within that time frame. Edited December 12, 2012 by Taramere 1
Lonely Ronin Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Okay. But is holding on a bit to develop an emotional bond "playing games"? I didn't imply with my post that I am looking to play games to catch someone, that would be pathetic specially at my age. I asked how to hold a bit and keep the excitement alive, so I can develop a bond with someone special first, and not kill the relationship by going to bed early. Come on, even you players here, you know that doing it too soon can hinder a potential good relationship... not that you are looking for one, lol. First I'm not a player, lets get that point strait up front. Second, the easiest way to do what you want, is just tell the guy up front. I have on more than one occasion walked a woman back to her place, and been asked if I want to come in. I've gotten in the door and had her all over me, and heard her say I like you a lot, but you're not getting any tonight. Simply put, like I just said I need to know you like me. It's not about when sex is going to happen. It's about knowing you want me, not just attention from me till the next guy comes along. 2
Els Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 First I'm not a player, lets get that point strait up front. Second, the easiest way to do what you want, is just tell the guy up front. I have on more than one occasion walked a woman back to her place, and been asked if I want to come in. I've gotten in the door and had her all over me, and heard her say I like you a lot, but you're not getting any tonight. Simply put, like I just said I need to know you like me. It's not about when sex is going to happen. It's about knowing you want me, not just attention from me till the next guy comes along. This makes a lot of sense. I think that, assuming you are with the right man (one who is compatible with you in terms of principles and world views, and who isn't just trying to get laid), a key part of keeping a guy interested without sex is letting him know in other ways that you really are into him. I figure some guys have had bad experiences with women who flaked all around them and were just keeping them on the back burner, so they might perceive lack of sex as a sign of lack of interest if other signs are also present. So, if you really like him, show it. Don't be afraid to reciprocate contact or even initiate sometimes, don't flake, show him you are committed to him and not just considering him to be 'one of your options'. The earliest I have had a sexual encounter (and I'm not even talking vaginal sex) with a man was at 2 months after we started dating. That is quite common in my culture; why? Because people don't usually play the dating game there, they don't multidate, they don't look at relationships as a numbers game. So the man feels secure that the woman isn't just playing him to maximise her options without needing her to put out to give him that security, and thus he is willing to wait typically. 1
Author edgygirl Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 It's coming from... our lives? Most guys I've seen try within a date or two. And no, I don't think I am picking the bad ones. I only go out with regular interesting guys who don't seem like players. Where exactly is this 1st or 2nd date time frame coming from?
movingon12 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Why is it LS women insist all men demand sex on the 1st or 2nd date when i've yet to see any LS man in this thread claim sex has to happen by the 1st or 2nd date? Where exactly is this 1st or 2nd date time frame coming from? Ever since I turned 30, every first date I've had has resulted with the guy asking to come in. I may have misunderstood their intention, but the one time I agreed (he'd been insisting that he wouldn't try anything and just wanted to use my bathroom) he reappeared from the bathroom 2 minutes later completely naked. My husband also told me later that his 1st and 2nd date suggestions to 'come in and watch TV for a while' had nothing to do with wanting to watch TV. So 'demanding' sex after 1-2 dates - no. 'Trying for' - yes. 1
Lonely Ronin Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I may have misunderstood their intention, but the one time I agreed (he'd been insisting that he wouldn't try anything and just wanted to use my bathroom) he reappeared from the bathroom 2 minutes later completely naked. This guy had no manners, you never ask, you get asked. O and I'm embarrassed for this guy, what the hel* was he thinking. This sounds like a scene from fierce creatures.
veggirl Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I can't imagine waiting 2 months to have sex with a guy I am dating and attracted to. That seems a LONG time. A month sounds reasonable but sheesh is it THAT big of a deal? Hasn't the world basically concluded that if a guy likes you, he likes you and sex on the 3rd date or whatever isn't going to change that? I agree that the first date is too soon, that's like "hey my name is veggirl, *sex*" well that's awkward. The only problem sex early on creates is false intimacy and suddenly big expectations, those can both be avoided though with proper communication. Anyway, totally laughing about the suggestion of sitting on the guys lap and feeding him his dinner on the 2nd date. That's awesome. 1
musemaj11 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 For some - maybe. Personally I couldn't care less about being 'romanced'. But I would never have sex with a man I didn't trust. Normally it takes more than a couple of dates to build up that level of trust - sometimes less. For the women who are saying they wouldn't want to sleep with every guy they had a first date with, I'm not surprised: there's no way you could like (enough), be attracted to (enough) and trust (enough) every man you have a first date with. We were talking about how does men buying or giving women stuff have anything to do with his trustworthiness? The question is this: Gentlemen of LS! Imagine you've been on 2 dates with a girl that you really liked, found attractive, enjoyed talking to, had great chemistry with, and with whom you ended up having sex with after the 2nd date (a mutual, spontaneous, 'one thing led to another' experience). Would you break up with this woman that you like, simply because she had slept with you? If yes, is that because you think she must have really low standards because she slept with you so easily, or is it that you're worried about how many others she's slept with and it makes you feel insecure, or is it because you assume she's not interested in a real relationship or is there another reason?If a man left you after having sex with you, he is simply just not that into you in the first place. This is a fact. Provided of course that the man didnt have a conservative upbringing that makes him look down on sexually open women. I have had sex on early dates and some of the women I just wanted to see them again. To be honest I dont know what it was, but there was something about them that I cannot explain. But that's the GOAL of most of the cheap ass guys here on LoveShack. You all live in a dream world - you want women to ask YOU out, want women to PAY for the date, and you want them to put out for you on the first date. Can't blame em for having a dream, can ya? After all, lets get real, women have the same exact fantasy themselves which you can also see repeatedly on this very forum. You know, having a good looking, successful guy asking them out, wining and dining them, and not pressuring them to sex. Thats like the wish of every single woman on earth. So once again, Im not one of those naive men, but those guys are no worse than the majority of women who share the same dream. How's that been working for ya? Oh yeah, it hasn't.Well, personally it has worked for me considering Im a good looking guy. But since Im picky in the type of women I want, I would rather put in effort than receiving choices I dont want on a silver platter.
Author edgygirl Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 Man... see? Her HUSBAND admitted to it as well. There's something fundamentally wrong about relationships dynamics these days. I think I preferred the way it was in the 40-50s where guys would go to prostitutes to fulfill their (uncontrollable?) urges, and then treat their dates with respect and want to get to know them and pursue a fulfilling, decent relationship. Ugh, yes, I am turning more old-fashioned by the day. So sick of it. Give us a break. F- the feminists. That's what we got. I am happy I have a career, but it's worth nothing if I can't find a decent guy to love who is not only looking at doing it on a first date. Truth is we women became our worst enemies. I hope we realize it and sooner or later do another revolution where men won't assume they can get into our pants so easily You guys just get things too easily these days. You get the sex without giving us what we want = commitment and fulfillment. What good is it for us? We women are plain dumb, I admit it. Ever since I turned 30, every first date I've had has resulted with the guy asking to come in. I may have misunderstood their intention, but the one time I agreed (he'd been insisting that he wouldn't try anything and just wanted to use my bathroom) he reappeared from the bathroom 2 minutes later completely naked. My husband also told me later that his 1st and 2nd date suggestions to 'come in and watch TV for a while' had nothing to do with wanting to watch TV. So 'demanding' sex after 1-2 dates - no. 'Trying for' - yes.
Els Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Man... see? Her HUSBAND admitted to it as well. There's something fundamentally wrong about relationships dynamics these days. I think I preferred the way it was in the 40-50s where guys would go to prostitutes to fulfill their (uncontrollable?) urges, and then treat their dates with respect and want to get to know them and pursue a fulfilling, decent relationship. Ugh, yes, I am turning more old-fashioned by the day. So sick of it. Give us a break. F- the feminists. That's what we got. I am happy I have a career, but it's worth nothing if I can't find a decent guy to love who is not only looking at doing it on a first date. Truth is we women became our worst enemies. I hope we realize it and sooner or later do another revolution where men won't assume they can get into our pants so easily You guys just get things too easily these days. You get the sex without giving us what we want = commitment and fulfillment. What good is it for us? We women are plain dumb, I admit it. So, are you here to make a gender-blanketing rant or are you here to receive advice on how to achieve what you asked in the OP? Because all I see in the last few pages is the former.
Taramere Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) F- the feminists. That's what we got. I am happy I have a career, but it's worth nothing if I can't find a decent guy to love who is not only looking at doing it on a first date. Truth is we women became our worst enemies. I hope we realize it and sooner or later do another revolution where men won't assume they can get into our pants so easily You guys just get things too easily these days. You get the sex without giving us what we want = commitment and fulfillment. What good is it for us? We women are plain dumb, I admit it. I think you should just be true to yourself. If a guy allows himself to be brainwashed by internet trolls into believing that you're shagging bland pretty boys on the side while he doesn't get to have sex with you straight away, that's on him. I honestly think, though, that in real life, as opposed to internet land, you'll find that if you click with a man then you'll be able to compromise and negotiate with eachother on these matters without reference to what the rest of the world thinks. And also without feeling any need to change the way the rest of the world seems to think. That last part is important, because I think that while it's good to have your own standards and principles for living your life, you have to accept that they won't be universal...and that others aren't necessarily wrong, dumb or cynically opportunistic for not sharing them. Edited December 12, 2012 by Taramere
musemaj11 Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 So 'demanding' sex after 1-2 dates - no. 'Trying for' - yes. 'Trying' is definitely a far cry from 'demanding'. I think I preferred the way it was in the 40-50s where guys would go to prostitutes to fulfill their (uncontrollable?) urges, and then treat their dates with respect and want to get to know them and pursue a fulfilling, decent relationship. Ugh, yes, I am turning more old-fashioned by the day. So sick of it. Give us a break. Is that really how it was in the 50s? AWESOME! F- the feminists. That's what we got. I am happy I have a career, but it's worth nothing if I can't find a decent guy to love who is not only looking at doing it on a first date. Truth is we women became our worst enemies. I hope we realize it and sooner or later do another revolution where men won't assume they can get into our pants so easily You can't have everything you know. Plenty of men also wish they could go back to the past when they didnt have to compete with women for good jobs and women were more obedient to their men. You guys just get things too easily these days. You get the sex without giving us what we want = commitment and fulfillment. What good is it for us? We women are plain dumb, I admit it. Both men and women think of each other as having it easy.
Author edgygirl Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 Sorry I think I got bitter these last days reading Mars and Venus on a Date... and I woke up nervous as I'm supposed to talk in the next two days with this guy that caused this revelation on relationships for me. I am angry mostly at myself for destroying a potential relationship by putting out before I should have. And I am angry that guys put us in this situation constantly on every date. So, are you here to make a gender-blanketing rant or are you here to receive advice on how to achieve what you asked in the OP? Because all I see in the last few pages is the former.
Els Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Sorry I think I got bitter these last days reading Mars and Venus on a Date... and I woke up nervous as I'm supposed to talk in the next two days with this guy that caused this revelation on relationships for me. I am angry mostly at myself for destroying a potential relationship by putting out before I should have. And I am angry that guys put us in this situation constantly on every date. If you find that every guy you date is this way, it's time to shift the demographics a little. Change up the sort of guy you date, look in other social circles, perhaps even move if it's really important to you.
Author edgygirl Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 I don't know how I was so blind up to today that I didn't realize that all/most guys will TRY. It doesn't mean we have to do it or feel the pressure to do it or it's the highway. Specially because they will try with almost every woman they go on a date. It's not that we're that special or irresistible. What was I thinking??? 'Trying' is definitely a far cry from 'demanding'. Thanks LS for making me see it. And I used to consider myself pretty intuitive and smart. Ha.
Lonely Ronin Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 I am angry mostly at myself for destroying a potential relationship by putting out before I should have. IMO this is a false believe. The relationship was never going to work anyways. The only time I've ever stopped seeing a woman soon after sleeping with her, was because I was shown more personality traits that I didn't find appealing. And I am angry that guys put us in this situation constantly on every date. Gd, stop blaming all of us, blame the insecure little loser who do. Learn how to pick them out and avoid them. 2
Author edgygirl Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 You mentioned that in your culture it's not like that. But in the city I live, it is. No way out of it. And I only date people I meet online, which makes it even more like that. In 5+ years I've lived here, I never met anyone through social circles, it doesn't work like that around here, unfortunately. I think it's a plague of big cities these days. If you didn't meet someone you want up to finishing college, it's hard to meet people IRL. And I just can't move and restart anymore... too tired to do it all over again. I might be doomed to settle with someone I am not that into, as the guy who wanted to marry me last year, or remain single. If you find that every guy you date is this way, it's time to shift the demographics a little. Change up the sort of guy you date, look in other social circles, perhaps even move if it's really important to you.
Author edgygirl Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 Hmmm "learn how to pick them". Okay. So how do you tell a guy will be like that when there is no evidence before going on a first date? Please do clarify. Honestly I only date the cream of the crop. Yes - successful, good looking guys who seem to have a brain as well and be into the things I am. So by what you said, I am thinking perhaps I should date losers so they won't push it right because they have no other options anyway and will wait? FYI - I am still talking with the guy. He still seems interested although it's complicated as it's a LDR and he works 6 days a week and is dead on his free time. IMO this is a false believe. The relationship was never going to work anyways. The only time I've ever stopped seeing a woman soon after sleeping with her, was because I was shown more personality traits that I didn't find appealing. Gd, stop blaming all of us, blame the insecure little loser who do. Learn how to pick them out and avoid them.
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