todreaminblue Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Love this thread. It can be an issue, can't it? Men are very sex driven. It doesn't mean they don't want relationships, it's just that sometimes they want to have sex first and then figure out if they want a relationship with you afterwards. Where sometimes we're just the opposite. Google Evan Marc Katz. He has a blog with LOTS of good stuff in there. Somewhere in the history of his blogs he talks about this exact subject. And he's a guy. Who online dated something like 300 women before he got married. I can't remember his exact words but something along the lines of as long as the guy knows that sex is coming down the line, like you escalate the physical stuff, always going a little further but not going all the way, they will stick around. If I'm not ready to have sex with a guy I will not put myself in the position to be alone with him at my place or his place. Then it's game over for me. And that stinks cuz there is only so much making out or playing around you can do in a parking lot. LOL But still. I have found guys that try to rush things will ask me to meet them at their place and we'll 'go to dinner from there' when they are just trying to get me to their place. They will say they want to make dinner for me on the second date to get me to their place. They will say they have to be to work early the next day so they just want to hang at their place. If I'm not ready for sex then I would say no to all those scenarios. Anyway. Like I said, google Evan Marc Katz. LOTS of great info there. And good luck, this is my exact issue. I don't want them to think I'm a prude (I'm soooo far from that) but on the other hand I am looking for a relationship. what i have done in the past as a date i say hey ill cook for you and ill have the guy there and will also have others as well.....has to be more than the guy and one other three is out....third wheel etc...if a guy asks me to his place for dinner ill say sure you can cook for me is anyone else going to be there....maybe we should have a dinner party..lets invite these people...have some fun.ill help you cook......then i come over earlier....while in th ekitchen i am a serious kamikaze cook........so i get to spend time with the guy alone....relax him and try to control my nerves.... .....cut myself three or four times(not on purpose if i like someone i tend to get a little distracted a bit shaky in the hand department and i stay away from steam....i have had many steam burns........) and see how he is at first aid....smilin...lol..kiiiiiitchen kaaaaamikaaaze..deb
crude Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 If you've been having sex on the 1st or 2nd date with a string of men for years, you've had more action than most men, except for the players. You mentioned the kind of men you're attracted to want sex immediately. It might shock you, but most men don't want sex with a complete stranger on the first date. Maybe you should try liking a different kind of man, not the promiscuous slutty type that you go for now. 4
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Well I do meet them online as I don't meet men in my daily life. Who knows, maybe that's what OLD brings. But I am not completely sure it's only their fault. Maybe it's the sexual vibe I give. That's why I'm here, to try and see what I'm doing wrong. Last guy I went on a date didn't talk about sex for two months. When he came to my city to meet, we ended up drinking too much and it happened. Now, I think it was both his fault and my fault. I take responsibility for it. I shouldn't have drink if I was so interested in him. I should not have offered that he crashed in my couch. It's the way I behave as well. I am trying to learn how to not be so stupid and trusting and so sexual. Also I am trying to adapt to the way people date here as I am not originally American. The dumb thing would be to continue to act the same and expect things to work.
xpaperxcutx Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 I was friends with my bf for a month and we dated for two weeks before we had sex. We didn't emphasize sex because it wasn't on our agenda. Yes, we were physically attracted to each other but at the same time, we also decided to make our first time together special. I can say that while physical attraction plays a role, you have to see whether being with a guy is worth it enough to have sex with him. As a girl who used to jump into bed after a few dates, I rather date a guy who is more level headed and someone who wants to pursue a relationship with me, as oppose to pursuing me just for sex. My bf is someone who wants a relationship with me. As a woman, you are responsible for jumping into bed with a man. You are actually someone who has more self-control and you need to assert that and let those men realize that you can hold your ground when it comes to saying no. That means, if you can say no to a guy while making out, you're showing them you are someone worthwhile to fight for. And if they cannot accept that, and they decide to walk away, they were never the right one for you. In this day and age, men thinks all women put out. It's usually the ones that don't that makes men think " that girl is something. She's definitely someone I want to date long term". If need be, wait for exclusivity. Some men expects you to put out after 2-3 dates but honestly, who gave them that right to expect sex? 1
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Yay I found "Mars and Venus on a date" for download. Reviews say it's a bit conservative but might be just what I need... "No matter how sincere you are, if your partner is misinterpreting your innocent and automatic reactions and responses, your attempts to create a relationship may be unsuccessful. It is not enough merely to be authentic in sharing yourself; to succeed in dating you need to consider how you will be interpreted as well. For this reason there are times when we cannot just “be ourselves.” Instead, we must hold back our initial gut reactions and measure our responses in ways that will communicate where we are coming from" Good start. It will be hard to sleep tonight as I feel like keep reading 1
GLDheart Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Edgygirl - As the Father of two little girls that someday will need to decide when to let a man do things a Dad prefers to never think about, .. do it when it is something YOU want. Hey, if that's date one and you want to use HIM for sex - GO FOR IT! If you want to get to know him better and are still unsure of his motivations - DAMN STRAIGHT THAT CLOWN BETTER RESPECT YOU. The pace is yours. He can acclimate to it or take a hike. If you want to keep him interested, do it with WHO you are and not with that magic little weapon god gave you. 3
Eternal Sunshine Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 I also think that you should do what feels right for you. To me, having sex with men I barely know is not enjoyable. Maybe I am just too conservative but that's how I feel. I don't delay sex out of strategy... I think that if you get pleasure out of sex with men early on, then you need a man that will accept you as you are. I don't see anything wrong with that. Many relationships start with sex early on.
Ruby Slippers Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Yeah, the Mars and Venus book is a bit old school. He believes that men and women enjoy relationships more when they each consider the differing needs and tendencies of both sexes. He says that of course most men are hoping to get lucky on the first date, and that desire is just as natural as women's desire for attention and affection. But he argues that holding out works out better for women and men. A man has that space and distance to feel his attraction and pursue. The sex drive is one of the most powerful drives for men (drive for food and drive for sex). So if he gets to gorge on the feast the first night, what is there left to hunger and strive for? And I think it totally sucks that women have to be the "gatekeepers" and delay the deliciousness, as I love sex and my drive can rival plenty of men's. But that's one of the sucky parts of being female. It's just the way it is
suladas Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 You said you think you might have ruined potential relationships by being at someones house on a date and not putting out, I disagree. No guy who likes you and wants a relationship will have a problem waiting. I've had a first date where we went back to my place to watch a movie and had a heavy make out session, didn't even think about sex, was perfectly happy waiting. As long as things are progressing, with making out, etc a few weeks or even a month is not a big deal. In my last relationship, sex happened on the second date, because she made the move, I would have waited at least a few more dates. Women set the pace, and most guys will not have a issue if it takes a little bit as long as they know it is coming, but if the women make the move most guys won't say no either. As far as being at their house, or even sleeping there, etc I don't see the problem if you make it clear you want to wait for sex and you can be sure you can control yourself. I would have no problem sleeping in the same bed and not having sex if she wanted to wait. The reason guys might disappear after a few dates of no sex is, maybe they didn't feel a connection but figured they would stick around a bit and see if they could get some sex or they were just lying about wanting a relationship and just wanted sex. Not exactly uncommon for women to have sex on the first date and never hear from the guy again either. 2
Eternal Sunshine Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 It's funny how guys react when you have been dating for say a month with no sex. I am back at his place and making out....Usually there is a point where I stop them from going further. Then on the night I decide I am ready for it to happen, I just don't stop them. They usually stop themselves (because that's what they are expecting) and I say..let's keep going They usually say something like "Are you sure?" <playing the nice guy> *cue me starting to take their clothes off* they get this look of huge excitement It's kind of cute :laugh:
Tara247 Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 If you have to put out to keep him, he was never interested in the first place. 7
xpaperxcutx Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 At your age, you don't. You're delusional if you think any man you're going to be sexually attracted to ( none of these sensitive metrosexual feminists ) is going to wait 3 months for a cookie other men got within a week. The only time I've ever and will ever give it some time is if she's a virgin or very inexperienced. If she's over, say, 25 and you're not having sex within the first few dates there's a very simple reason, you lack chemistry or she has some fierce hangups/bitterness. Both of which don't do it for me. That is fine, I doubt the OP will be wantig to date you anytime soon. Men who wants women to put out simply because of their sexual history tend to have hangups too; they have a mentality to associate women with a long sexual history as PROMISCUOUS and see these women who withhold sex as a tease. Mej are not owned sex just as it should not expected of women to put out. 2
movingon12 Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 So as per my last thread (Dating etiquette at 40), I finally understood that I absolutely need to hold on to having sex in the first dates even when (and specially when) I see potential in the guy for a long term relationship. I really don't agree with this at all. My husband stayed over on our 2nd date. The idea that there is some intimacy timetable that women should stick to - in order to keep a guy interested - is as daft as the 'don't call her for 4 days' rule. If a guy loses interest after he's had sex with you, that's going to happen whether you've made him wait for 2 hours or 2 months. Not having sex in the hope that it will keep him interested is as silly as having sex in the hope it will keep him interested. It might be the case that he sees you as a challenge, and continues to appear 'interested' when in fact he's just determined not to give up until he's closed the deal. And then he'll give up... Relationships work when both partners feel comfortable and are honest with themselves and each other. If you want to have sex with him, do it. If you don't feel comfortable yet, don't. Just be yourself. If you find it difficult to stop things once they start, stay in public places until you think you're ready. 1
todreaminblue Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 At your age, you don't. You're delusional if you think any man you're going to be sexually attracted to ( none of these sensitive metrosexual feminists ) is going to wait 3 months for a cookie other men got within a week. The only time I've ever and will ever give it some time is if she's a virgin or very inexperienced. If she's over, say, 25 and you're not having sex within the first few dates there's a very simple reason, you lack chemistry or she has some fierce hangups/bitterness. Both of which don't do it for me. not true......if you are over 25 as a woman and want to wait fro sex ......its not about hang ups its about not developing hang ups and bitterness....or expectations being shattered ...every woman has a right to say no, no matter what age she is ...it isnt about strategy or hangups ...its about her body in her time with her beliefs and standards held firmly in check.........deb
Divasu Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Say to yourself: I want to allow my feelings to develop organically so an emotional connection is firmly established first between both parties; when we BOTH know we are dating each other exclusively and we are both interested in something long lasting. I want to get to know him better so we can both determine if we are compatible overall. Of course, there are several real life examples of two people having sex early on and they end up in happy marriages. But, those are EXCEPTIONS. Having sex is an emotional process moreso for you than it is for him (in MOST cases, says biology...). You don't want to confuse sex with love. Men are not so open with their emotions and have thus learned to delay 'bonding' (though he may be in "lust" with you, he does NOT love you). I think it takes more time for a man to have an emotional connection towards a woman and if you have sex too soon, you will most likely build an emotional attachment first that he just can't relate to UNTIL he connects with you on that level. 3
Revolver Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 It's really hard to expect an above average man with any type of options to go very long without sex. He might still date the woman in question but sleep with others on the side until she's ready
movingon12 Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Say to yourself: I want to allow my feelings to develop organically so an emotional connection is firmly established first between both parties; when we BOTH know we are dating each other exclusively and we are both interested in something long lasting. I want to get to know him better so we can both determine if we are compatible overall. But why does she need to have an emotional connection first? Although I accept that a lot/most women link sex+love more than men do, it doesn't mean that all women do. It sounds to me like the OP doesn't need an emotional connection to enjoy sex. If she was having sex on the first date and then announcing she was in love with the man, this would definitely be a problem. But I don't think that's what's she doing. She might be sending off unconscious 'love' signals in the morning, or she might be sending off 'that was a ONS' signals or she might be sending off 'nsa' signals when she meets guys, or she might just be picking the wrong guys. Hard to know without more information.
Divasu Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 But why does she need to have an emotional connection first? I can't answer that question for her. It sounds to me like the OP doesn't need an emotional connection to enjoy sex. That may be true. If she was having sex on the first date and then announcing she was in love with the man, this would definitely be a problem. But I don't think that's what's she doing. She might be sending off unconscious 'love' signals in the morning, or she might be sending off 'that was a ONS' signals or she might be sending off 'nsa' signals when she meets guys, or she might just be picking the wrong guys. Hard to know without more information. Agreed.
thatone Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Am I the first to point out the obvious? If you're asking how you can change your behavior, temporarily, to bait/switch a man into a relationship with you, what makes you think it will last longer than you can maintain the facade?
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Ruby - thank you SO MUCH for the book tip. I read 80 pages so far and it might be just what I was looking for! I was laughing so hard as this guy gets women so well. the male stuff didn't make sense to me, but as he totally understand women, I will take his word for the guy's stuff and follow it. I have to reprogram my brain, that's what it is about. I am a person who always followed my instincts, which are usually right but we also have to be humble and see that we can't know how the other sex thinks and expect them to think and behave like we do. It just doesn't work like that. And, as in any other form of education in life, it is something to be learned. I appreciate this community so much for that. I am learning a lot here, on the top of my 40 years. Who would imagine that. I thought you were kinda conservative in the beginning... but it seems you must just be right in your worldview. Thanks again darling!!! Yeah, the Mars and Venus book is a bit old school. He believes that men and women enjoy relationships more when they each consider the differing needs and tendencies of both sexes. He says that of course most men are hoping to get lucky on the first date, and that desire is just as natural as women's desire for attention and affection. But he argues that holding out works out better for women and men. A man has that space and distance to feel his attraction and pursue. The sex drive is one of the most powerful drives for men (drive for food and drive for sex). So if he gets to gorge on the feast the first night, what is there left to hunger and strive for? And I think it totally sucks that women have to be the "gatekeepers" and delay the deliciousness, as I love sex and my drive can rival plenty of men's. But that's one of the sucky parts of being female. It's just the way it is 1
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 see, I THOUGHT I knew what was right for me. But now I am rethinking it as I consider myself a smart ass and thought my instincts were good. It might just not be the case. We don't know how the opposite sex thinks and expecting them to think like we do and feel suddenly seems to be a mistake. I've been rethinking the whole thing in the last days. I THOUGHT I enjoyed sex in the first dates. The truth might be that I don't. Shocking. lol. Women do need more time to warm up emotionally and feel really comfy with having sex so sex can be really pleasurable. So I thought I was being modern and doing what I wanted but it might not be the case. Wow. Reality check. Thanks to you guys. Thank you! I also think that you should do what feels right for you. To me, having sex with men I barely know is not enjoyable. Maybe I am just too conservative but that's how I feel. I don't delay sex out of strategy... I think that if you get pleasure out of sex with men early on, then you need a man that will accept you as you are. I don't see anything wrong with that. Many relationships start with sex early on.
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) Look I don't know your age but by your posts in general it's very clear that you're in a different phase in life. Believe me, I've had lots of fun in life and relationships that came out of first night fun. But after a while things become not only about sex honey. It gets tiring. You want something more. And when you realize what you're doing is not working to develop a real connection that is what brings you happiness in life, you have to change strategy. This might happen even to you, you'd be surprised. Sex does get in the way of developing emotions and changes everything. I don't need only sex anymore, it is not good enough for me. I need a real connection. And am looking for a man who wants the same. The kind of men I'm looking for will be smart enough to understand that although he needs and loves sex just as much as I do. At your age, you don't. You're delusional if you think any man you're going to be sexually attracted to ( none of these sensitive metrosexual feminists ) is going to wait 3 months for a cookie other men got within a week. The only time I've ever and will ever give it some time is if she's a virgin or very inexperienced. If she's over, say, 25 and you're not having sex within the first few dates there's a very simple reason, you lack chemistry or she has some fierce hangups/bitterness. Both of which don't do it for me. edit: 3 months is too much for me as well. I am only talking about going out in a few dates (5 perhaps) to see if there's a real long term connection possibility before jumping into bed with just anyone. even I, as a sex lover, think I can keep my pants on for a few weeks. Edited December 10, 2012 by edgygirl 1
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Hey been there done that. I had at least 4 relationships develop from early sex on dates. BUT Lately it hasn't been working and I have to rethink strategy. I think it works well when you're 20s or so. Not so much in my age where there's more expectations of long term, marriage and whatnot. It's not about having rules. It's about letting a real thing develop and see if there is potential before being clouded by sex. It's not about playing a game. It's about finding out if HE is right for me, and letting him find out if I might be right for him. Sex gets in the way of seeing this. I am reprogramming my brain as you can tell haha. I think it will be worth it in my case. I really don't agree with this at all. My husband stayed over on our 2nd date. The idea that there is some intimacy timetable that women should stick to - in order to keep a guy interested - is as daft as the 'don't call her for 4 days' rule. If a guy loses interest after he's had sex with you, that's going to happen whether you've made him wait for 2 hours or 2 months. Not having sex in the hope that it will keep him interested is as silly as having sex in the hope it will keep him interested. It might be the case that he sees you as a challenge, and continues to appear 'interested' when in fact he's just determined not to give up until he's closed the deal. And then he'll give up... Relationships work when both partners feel comfortable and are honest with themselves and each other. If you want to have sex with him, do it. If you don't feel comfortable yet, don't. Just be yourself. If you find it difficult to stop things once they start, stay in public places until you think you're ready.
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 I agree that might be the case. It's the same for women darling. We also crave and need sex, believe it or not That's why, in my case, I wouldn't mind in a moral level if the guy has sex on the side until we see if we are a possible long-term match. I would prefer though to meet a guy who can just go with self-pleasuring for a few weeks to be the father of my kid It's really hard to expect an above average man with any type of options to go very long without sex. He might still date the woman in question but sleep with others on the side until she's ready
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Nah... you don't get what I'm talking about at all. It's not about baiting... I want to find a REAL relationship. It's not a facade at all. I love sex and I won't hide the fact. But after a lot of thought, I think having sex early is getting in the way of developing a healthy relationship with potential long term partners. I think I need to get to know someone a little before jumping into bed, to see if there's real long term possibility. So no, it's not about pretending to be something I am not. Am I the first to point out the obvious? If you're asking how you can change your behavior, temporarily, to bait/switch a man into a relationship with you, what makes you think it will last longer than you can maintain the facade?
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