edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) So as per my last thread (Dating etiquette at 40), I finally understood that I absolutely need to hold on to having sex in the first dates even when (and specially when) I see potential in the guy for a long term relationship. But I haven't dated in a naive-like way (meaning, without doing it in the first few dates) since I was 17. So I am not sure how to go about it without having the guy getting disinterested, as, you know, there are many options out there. (Yes, yes, I know the right guy will wait etc... but I want to hear about real life examples). Atheistscholar posted a few helpful -- and specific -- suggestions on how to proceed in the first dates flirting-wise, and I would like to hear more ideas. I don't need date ideas per se (parks, museums or so where there is no chance that sex will be a possibility), but more suggestions on how to behave to keep a guy around my age interested and develop his emotional connection towards me as well as keeping his (healthy) sexual interest. I know I am smart, interesting and such but I don't know how to keep the passion burning after I meet someone live without including sex. I can keep a guy interested only by chatting online through IM for weeks on end… but after meeting, somehow the guy wants to jump in my pants so fast that all is lost. I am not sure if it's because I send a lot of sexual energy (which I think I do even when I'm not being sexual as per what people told me), or if it's because that's what ALL men do as, if I go by LS discussions, they will never get laid. Or if after meeting me they think well I don't want a relationship with her as she's not what I'm looking for/my type/ideal, and then try to sleep with me so at least they get laid. So… yes, although I do have extensive experience I think the way I behave when I meet someone I'm interested in is causing my relationships to fail. I find it hard to be flirty and not sexual at the same time. Suggestions, please! Detailed ones It would be nice if guys around my age or over 30s told me what women that they keep being interested in for a while do to keep their interest and make them want to develop a relationship with her... Flirting-wise, or whatever. But I am not talking about the woman being beautiful or so... I am not interested in men who keep the interested solely because they're attracted to someone. I want to know how to behave and do to make a man want to seek a real relationship and not disqualify her for her behavior. Edited December 10, 2012 by edgygirl 1
Balzac Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Do you have a specific time parameter? By sex do you mean anything short of vaginal intercourse? You're asking all of the right questions btw.
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 I mean, my relationships have all been really intense in the past 15 years. As I said in my last post, it's hard for me to resist people I am really into, and I usually end up in bed with them in the first or second dates. I am finally realizing it is not a good idea. So I guess my post is about how to behave in the first and second dates or who knows, up to a 5th date to keep the interest and not have it end. The guys I'm interested in a relationship ALWAYS try to jump in my pants in the first date. I want to know how you people keep it flirty, light, fun, drama free, flirtatious without being sexual etc. and make it possible for more dates to happen without being dramatic about not wanting to have sex early on, etc. I feel that if I say I want to take things slow, they will just disappear and I won't have the chance to show how wonderful and relationship-worthy I am... Balzac said: Do you have a specific time parameter? By sex do you mean anything short of vaginal intercourse? You're asking all of the right questions btw.
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 I'm pasting AtheistScholar suggestions below, which were more on the sexual-flirtatious side as I thought they were quite helpful for someone like me who has difficulties avoiding the burning fire inside which makes me want to go to bed quickly with someone I'm really into and see long term potential, lol. But besides more flirtatious suggestions, it would be great to hear more in general about how to behave so the guy sees potential in long term and doesn't see you only as a sexual object to use and discard. AtheistScholar said: Look at your dates to cone this way: you are making a long erotic dance of flirtation and foreplay to build anticipation. The first night if you are feeling it: stare at each other deeply, hold hands, tounge kiss in the twilight with your hands in his hair until your lips swell! Second night feed him his meal while sitting in his lap, kiss him for hours while you get familiar with each others bodies through your clothes. If he pushes it towards sex tell him outright: " you turn me on, I'm REALLY feeling this but not tonight. I know and you know you need to know more, besides, I am SO worth the wait!"
Balzac Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 "So I guess my post is about how to behave in the first and second dates or who knows, up to a 5th date to keep the interest and not have it end." Ok let the experienced LS supporters bring on the suggestions.
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 hahaha. Balzac, I thought YOU were going to help me! But okay, let's see what everyone has to say. I hope a thread like this can help many girls out there with the same issue. Balzac said: "So I guess my post is about how to behave in the first and second dates or who knows, up to a 5th date to keep the interest and not have it end." Ok let the experienced LS supporters bring on the suggestions.
soccerrprp Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Why this first date, second date dribble? Just tell the guys you meet that you want to take it slow. If you tell them that you're worth it, you essentially telling them that he will eventually have you. So, he may wait until then, or get satisfied elsewhere while he's waiting for you, or he simply loses interest simply b/c you wouldn't put out. In which case, he wasn't worth it at all... Come on. You do believe you're worth it, right? So, just be honest and let the guy know that you're wanting a lasting relationship and have jumped in too fast in the past and need to wait. 1
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Hmm see if it was this easy to understand I wouldn't be here asking... I do think I am worth it. But my failed record of maintaining a relationship with the guys I got interested in the last 1.5 years shows me I am doing something to turn them off. Or maybe that I should lower my standards as I usually go for guys who are highly desirable in the dating world (all my dates are with guys in their late 30s early 40s, tall, successful professionally, intelligent, witty, etc)... and they might have many options including younger women who are not in a hurry to find a relationship as I am. I am just trying to figure out how to behave in a way that doesn't doom potential relationships. I like your suggestion of putting out there that I jumped too fast in the past and want to take things slow. But really, would be good to hear how successful dates that are getting-to-know-you dates go, to try and find out what I'm doing wrong and why it never leads to longer term with guys I want and who were totally into me before meeting and ending up in bed too soon.
Ruby Slippers Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 First of all, I really commend you for trying something different! I highly recommend the book "Mars and Venus on a Date". He talks about how you can slowly escalate physical activities without having sex. It's pretty detailed - he gets into all the first base, second base, etc. stuff. Cute! But he makes a strong argument for waiting to have sex until an emotional bond is formed, to set the relationship up for lasting success. I think he presents a balanced point of view. He acknowledges that men need some intimate activity for their attachment to grow, but advises on how to escalate that gradually, rather than falling right into bed with someone you barely know. The way most of my relationships have begun is that we date for 1-2 months before having sex. The first date is almost purely platonic, with maybe some light touching here and there and a good night kiss. And then the physical stuff gradually builds up from there, to more touching, hand on the waist, holding hands, kissing and hugging, making out, making out with some clothes off, and eventually sex. You can have a lot of fun with playfully drawing this out and teasing it forward. Think of it as a loooong, slow strip tease, classic glamour girl style. It helps to have nice girly things at home like a silk robe, rose petal bubble bath, and so on. 5
todreaminblue Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) I have actually had therapy in regards to the being sexual and not knowing it thing the last thing i want to be is walking sex.......my therapist(psych) told me this i am a philanderer....he was wrong why he said that is because i told him about a night out i had......a guy came up to a group of girls i was party of....there were five girls in all.....i was the shyest girl there.....definitely not the prettiest not wearing anything too revealing because i was dancing most of the night wasnt dancing with anyone in particular and not looking to pick up even danced by myself...the guy sat down between me and my friend....h e started talking about how he had lost his girlfriend in a car crash....so immediate reaction for me was to console and talk....the circle starts...smilin....anyway he eventually cut out the others by leaning in and blocking my view from my friends ...he was sweet enough and looked nice well dressed white shirt plain jeans....smelt nice......he asked if he could put his arm around me....i said he could as long as it stayed around my upper body........i dont understand why guys ask me ...and not my friends...then at the end of th enight he left his car there and jumped into the car with me and my friends.....not asking just jumped in followed me into the back seat.......the psych said i give off sexual vibes......they are purely unintentional so i know how you feel...i dont believe i am a philanderer i think my shrink was tripping and so also being in my 40s not dated since my teens i have attracted some interesting characters....some guys are scared of me until they get to know me......i am not out to do anything wrong....unfortunately sex for me has been extensive and often physical closeness is how i show interest....with my ex it was touch and my touch that got us together......i knew without a doubt that he liked me he went everywhere with me ......he often touched me.....the way his eyes smiled at me.......the calm manner he talked to me ....and what he said one day when i was with my boyfriend at the time and he was icing my bruises from said boyfriend who took off and left him with a broken mess....(why i can hate that ex) i dont hate any of them.........he first aided me pretty gently.....i truyl need a guy who does first aid if there is an accident walking i am that accident......i am thinking of doing my st johns ambulance course and meeting a guy who knows first aid to date........i get injured a lot...kamikazes often do....i wish you luck with dating..... i am glad you have decided not to rush in to sex....i am really struggling with my celibacy...i keep praying and asking for the desire and needing to feel physically close to a certain someone away so i can date.....thinking about giving it up....seeing i bond with sex...ill give myself a lethal injection...to try and stop thinking abotu soemoen who isnt interested in even gettign to know me as a friend.......feeling i should not worry about love.....i would still be faithful to that person i had sex with......i cant love with my heart though if my heart is taken sex is also a dilemma for me too at the moment thats why i posted to you.....what made you rethink the sex thing?..i will be interested to read what people post to you..... if i come up with any ideas i will post them here.....i have this name running through my head on repeat at the moment and posting that would not be appropriate....deb Edited December 10, 2012 by todreaminblue
CptSaveAho Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) 5 dates is a long time... you wont keep a guy interested without physical intimacy for 5 dates... I agree not to be the fish that just jumps in the boat, but if you need a crane to reel that fish in, its not worth it and we will let you go. Men are about sex, bottom line... if you dont put out... we will walk... Quid pro quo... You might find some sucker that will do what you want and wait 5 dates, but you eventually wont be attracted to him long term Now stop dating losers that push the intense threshhold Edited December 10, 2012 by CptSaveAho
Balzac Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 I think the obvious is to avoid your/his place for at least 4 dates. Be willing to have a discussion about sex and to share with him your boundaries. 2
todreaminblue Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 CptSaveAho said: 5 dates is a long time... you wont keep a guy interested without physical intimacy for 5 dates... I agree not to be the fish that just jumps in the boat, but if you need a crane to reel that fish in, its not worth it and we will let you go. Men are about sex, bottom line... if you dont put out... we will walk... You might find some sucker that will do what you want and wait 5 dates, but you eventually wont be attracted to him long term you arent helping.......captain save a ho...you posted to a guy about dropping his girlfriend because she had an active sex life in her past and conitnued to hav ean active sex life with the guy you advised to drop her....yeah burt was his name..........now you are saying make sure you dont keep them waiting too long and a guy is a sucker if he has to wait....make up your mind......deb 2
Shaun-Dro Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 edgygirl said: So as per my last thread (Dating etiquette at 40), I finally understood that I absolutely need to hold on to having sex in the first dates even when (and specially when) I see potential in the guy for a long term relationship. But I haven't dated in a naive-like way (meaning, without doing it in the first few dates) since I was 17. So I am not sure how to go about it without having the guy getting disinterested, as, you know, there are many options out there. (Yes, yes, I know the right guy will wait etc... but I want to hear about real life examples). Atheistscholar posted a few helpful -- and specific -- suggestions on how to proceed in the first dates flirting-wise, and I would like to hear more ideas. I don't need date ideas per se (parks, museums or so where there is no chance that sex will be a possibility), but more suggestions on how to behave to keep a guy around my age interested and develop his emotional connection towards me as well as keeping his (healthy) sexual interest. I know I am smart, interesting and such but I don't know how to keep the passion burning after I meet someone live without including sex. I can keep a guy interested only by chatting online through IM for weeks on end… but after meeting, somehow the guy wants to jump in my pants so fast that all is lost. I am not sure if it's because I send a lot of sexual energy (which I think I do even when I'm not being sexual as per what people told me), or if it's because that's what ALL men do as, if I go by LS discussions, they will never get laid. Or if after meeting me they think well I don't want a relationship with her as she's not what I'm looking for/my type/ideal, and then try to sleep with me so at least they get laid. So… yes, although I do have extensive experience I think the way I behave when I meet someone I'm interested in is causing my relationships to fail. I find it hard to be flirty and not sexual at the same time. Suggestions, please! Detailed ones It would be nice if guys around my age or over 30s told me what women that they keep being interested in for a while do to keep their interest and make them want to develop a relationship with her... Flirting-wise, or whatever. But I am not talking about the woman being beautiful or so... I am not interested in men who keep the interested solely because they're attracted to someone. I want to know how to behave and do to make a man want to seek a real relationship and not disqualify her for her behavior. To be honest, the majority of the women don't know how to keep men into them beyond sex. Women just don't tend to enjoy doing the same things as most heterosexual men do. That's the bottom line. And we know this so that's why we only seek out sex with you and be done. Until you begin to show more interest in politics, sports and better listening skills, as well as decreasing your propensity to fuss and whine to us, your value will remain only in the bedroom, period. 1
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Thanks Ruby! This all sounds wonderful and I will look for the book online and get it if it's not available but I'm afraid I'll have to mega reprogram my being, my soul and my brain... Feels so weird to have to do it. And will it worth for me? Did it work for you? Are you in a relationship? i.e. I like kinky sex. What on Earth am I gonna do to become the (conservative) person I am not? *shivers* I hope it's possible... oh my... overwhelming honestly. I am afraid I will feel... fake. As if I am playing a part that is not actually me. I am so blunt and honest and I don't usually do this kind of thing. Does the man that will become my longterm partner really want me to be someone I am not?... Ruby Slippers said: First of all, I really commend you for trying something different! I highly recommend the book "Mars and Venus on a Date". He talks about how you can slowly escalate physical activities without having sex. It's pretty detailed - he gets into all the first base, second base, etc. stuff. Cute! But he makes a strong argument for waiting to have sex until an emotional bond is formed, to set the relationship up for lasting success. I think he presents a balanced point of view. He acknowledges that men need some intimate activity for their attachment to grow, but advises on how to escalate that gradually, rather than falling right into bed with someone you barely know. The way most of my relationships have begun is that we date for 1-2 months before having sex. The first date is almost purely platonic, with maybe some light touching here and there and a good night kiss. And then the physical stuff gradually builds up from there, to more touching, hand on the waist, holding hands, kissing and hugging, making out, making out with some clothes off, and eventually sex. You can have a lot of fun with playfully drawing this out and teasing it forward. Think of it as a loooong, slow strip tease, classic glamour girl style. It helps to have nice girly things at home like a silk robe, rose petal bubble bath, and so on.
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 See... that's what I'm talking about. hahaha. CptSaveAho said: 5 dates is a long time... you wont keep a guy interested without physical intimacy for 5 dates... I agree not to be the fish that just jumps in the boat, but if you need a crane to reel that fish in, its not worth it and we will let you go. Men are about sex, bottom line... if you dont put out... we will walk... Quid pro quo... You might find some sucker that will do what you want and wait 5 dates, but you eventually wont be attracted to him long term Now stop dating losers that push the intense threshhold
todreaminblue Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 CptSaveAho said: LOL She was a used up whore at 25.... he even admitted to it.... yeah laugh it up bud....she got used by guys by giving out tooo early thanks for reinforcing the fact the poster should hold out till she really really really knows soemoen or they might just turn out to be you....thanks for that .truly appreciated..kisssssssses..deb 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Hmmm, it is the opposite for me - I always naturally waited 1-2 months. That was my default. Those men did try to have sex with me earlier and usually when that happened I gently told them that I need to get to know them better. If they suggested coming to their house - I would say sure but just to let you know I am still not ready. I typically just talked a lot to them. Usually swapping amusing stories of my past adventures, lots of laughing, gazing into his eyes, touches here and there. On dates 2-3 we would typically hold hands while walking, across the table, play fight and such. From then on, each date would end with looong heavy make out session with clothes on. If it's in a place where sex can't occur, no need to say anything. If you are at a house and see that he is heating up, gently push him away, smile coyly and say "I am not ready yet".... 2
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Man... you have no idea how interested I am in manly stuff. I prefer to go to a hardware store than to go buying clothes. The last guy I went on a date and am pissed about things not working asked me to get online on election day so we could "watch" it together and discuss what was going on! Seriously. And I do look feminine, etc. So it's not that either. Listening skills? He texted me for 5 hours from his Residency on a slow night and we talked about politics, science, music... So... That's not a problem I have. I actually think I am the perfect match for a guy, interests-wise! Shaun-Dro said: To be honest, the majority of the women don't know how to keep men into them beyond sex. Women just don't tend to enjoy doing the same things as most heterosexual men do. That's the bottom line. And we know this so that's why we only seek out sex with you and be done. Until you begin to show more interest in politics, sports and better listening skills, as well as decreasing your propensity to fuss and whine to us, your value will remain only in the bedroom, period. 1
todreaminblue Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 edgygirl said: Thanks Ruby! This all sounds wonderful and I will look for the book online and get it if it's not available but I'm afraid I'll have to mega reprogram my being, my soul and my brain... Feels so weird to have to do it. And will it worth for me? Did it work for you? Are you in a relationship? i.e. I like kinky sex. What on Earth am I gonna do to become the (conservative) person I am not? *shivers* I hope it's possible... oh my... overwhelming honestly. I am afraid I will feel... fake. As if I am playing a part that is not actually me. I am so blunt and honest and I don't usually do this kind of thing. Does the man that will become my longterm partner really want me to be someone I am not?... th eguy probably wont want you to be someone else ebing honest allows him to set his boundaries as well as your own.... kinky sex might be fun....but when you take the kinks out doesnt make it less fun....just different..being kinky all the time becomes overkill....till you get to the point you dont know why you found it fun int he first place.......and i know if you love someone fully the sex can be mind blowing kinky or not..sex will only ever be as boring as your imagination allows it to be, the more creative you are with sex that is non kinky....the more you enjoy it........deb
curlygirl40 Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Love this thread. It can be an issue, can't it? Men are very sex driven. It doesn't mean they don't want relationships, it's just that sometimes they want to have sex first and then figure out if they want a relationship with you afterwards. Where sometimes we're just the opposite. Google Evan Marc Katz. He has a blog with LOTS of good stuff in there. Somewhere in the history of his blogs he talks about this exact subject. And he's a guy. Who online dated something like 300 women before he got married. I can't remember his exact words but something along the lines of as long as the guy knows that sex is coming down the line, like you escalate the physical stuff, always going a little further but not going all the way, they will stick around. If I'm not ready to have sex with a guy I will not put myself in the position to be alone with him at my place or his place. Then it's game over for me. And that stinks cuz there is only so much making out or playing around you can do in a parking lot. LOL But still. I have found guys that try to rush things will ask me to meet them at their place and we'll 'go to dinner from there' when they are just trying to get me to their place. They will say they want to make dinner for me on the second date to get me to their place. They will say they have to be to work early the next day so they just want to hang at their place. If I'm not ready for sex then I would say no to all those scenarios. Anyway. Like I said, google Evan Marc Katz. LOTS of great info there. And good luck, this is my exact issue. I don't want them to think I'm a prude (I'm soooo far from that) but on the other hand I am looking for a relationship. 1
Balzac Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 The style if sex that you like needs to be part of your boundaries discussion. You are confusing a delay of sex with being conservative/vanilla. Those are two different facts. Be who you genuinely are. Set a new boundary for when to have sex.
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Thanks curlygirl, I can tell you get me and we're having the same issue. I read Evan Katz blog/questions from time to time, and I do agree with most things he says. I also downloaded that (somewhat jerkish guy) Chris Carter book on how to build attraction with men. They have good advice, but truth be said, I feel their stuff is a bit commercial, hence coming here for advice from real people in real dating lives Yes I'll have to train hard to know how to escalate and not seem prudish at the same time. I guess this is exactly why I posted this thread! I don't know exactly how to do it so they know it will come eventually. The not puting yourself in being alone position is fundamental. It has absolutely ruined 2 dates I was interested in. First time it was a 2nd date where this other Resident (yeah doctors seem to have something for me lately) proposed to cook for me, he seemed so normal that I said okay and convinced by therapist and best friend not to put out... he never called me again! UGH! My fault in the end as I should have refused to go to his place, but lesson learned. Last guy he didn't have his car and I as a gentle soul because we talked for 2 months said he could crash in my couch. Stupid me!!! I hope now I REALLY learned my lesson, enough is enough of ruining potential relationships. curlygirl40 said: Love this thread. It can be an issue, can't it?
Author edgygirl Posted December 10, 2012 Author Posted December 10, 2012 Yes what you're saying makes a lot of sense although I find it weird to talk about sex before I have sex if that makes sense as well haha. At what point that discussion should happen? On a first date? When the guy tries to get in your pants? How should that discussion go? Like, literally, what to say and not sound like a weirdo or a prudish or a nymphomaniac. lol. Balzac said: The style if sex that you like needs to be part of your boundaries discussion. You are confusing a delay of sex with being conservative/vanilla. Those are two different facts. Be who you genuinely are. Set a new boundary for when to have sex.
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