Sparkle88 Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 Why do we do it? I'm a MW involved with a MM. Is it the excitement, the longing, the flattery? I'm struggling with this question at the moment because I recently saw the MM. Is it worth the little bits of time together? This is my first time asking such personal quesitons here so I'm hoping some of the LS community can share their feelings or tell me why they're involved in this type of relationship and what they want the outcome to be.
Realist3 Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 I'm in the opposite position as you MM with a MW, and don't think I have spent much time asking myself why I decided to include this person on my journey. It just felt right. The excitement and danger I always considered more of a burden. I don't particularly like living my life on a razor's edge, but I do it anyway. Granted a lot of that goes away after you are confident that concealment issues are taken care of. But to answer the question, I have gained a great friend. We give each other things we don't experience in our marital relationships. We are sympatico. That will never change. The outcome? Who knows? Life is about the journey, not the destination.[cliche] 1
joli_doll Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 I don't know from personal experience but I can see how the flattery, excitement, and longing could easily overshadow reality, heartbreak, and loyalty. Anybody involved in this type of situation can tell you what they wish the outcome to be, I'm positive it is the same thing you want. But then you have the reality. I'm not saying it is impossible to get the end result you want, we all know anything is possible. Whatever you choose to do, just bear in mind that things won't be as simple as you wish they could be. It is clear that the short amount you spend with him is great but I think the same opportunity is a considerable factor into the dreams of a future with this man. I'm just trying to convey the actuality vs the fantasy. There are other people involved and that's messy enough. If there are kids involved, well then you get a bonus. 1
whichwayisup Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 Why do we do it? I'm a MW involved with a MM. Is it the excitement, the longing, the flattery? I'm struggling with this question at the moment because I recently saw the MM. Is it worth the little bits of time together? This is my first time asking such personal quesitons here so I'm hoping some of the LS community can share their feelings or tell me why they're involved in this type of relationship and what they want the outcome to be. Only you can answer that. Is possibly throwing away your marriage, your family, all that you know and are comfortable with, worth it? What do you want? To keep your marriage intact, and have someone on the side to meet your other needs for fun and excitement? Or are you looking to divorce, hope that MM will divorce his wife and the two of you will marry and start a life together? Or are you going to end it and focus on your husband. The choice is yours. 1
Sarabi Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 My first post after watching these pages for a couple of months!!! I'm a single girl involved with a MM...oh dear I never thought I would ever do something like this. It started in August...kinda. Its more emotional than physical but there is an element of physical about it. Initially I was trying to refuse when he told me he liked me but in the end I ignored the advice from an older friend who said "stay away, its bad for all involved..."...but now, we're in too deep... I tried saying no. I tried reminding him of his family. I tried asking him that if he does anything with me, what will it help to resolve in your relationship... I don't know if I can say its exciting...it is flattering but it can really hurt at the same time. I guess being single and lonely and never really feeling like I deserve a good relationship(if any) just made me think "oh well. He is paying me attention and I never get to socialise or do anything anyway"...so I just went for it. I shouldn't have. Its a terrible thing I am doing. Is it worth little bits of time together...sometimes it feels like it. He is a genuinely lovely person, we have so much in common, sometimes we do things in sync...but at other times (on a day like today) when you feel prone to bursting into tears at any minute then no, I just wish I really had the courage to stand up, wish him well and tell him never to talk to me again What do I want the outcome to be..? Well, he has a family, I never expected he would leave them for me, its just not practical! I personally think he should stay and work on his marriage (he is surprised at that and told me that it sounds like I really want his marriage to work). He also gets a bit upset at times because he says it sounds like I am pushing him away and discouraging him from carrying on this thing with me. At the end of the day, I honestly and sincerely want him to be happy. Whatever he chooses in life. I am not talking about how he has to make a choice between me or his family, I just mean for himself. He told me that it makes him want to cry when I wish for his happiness... I guess while I am waiting for Mr Right...or Mr Whoever to show up I thought I had some free time to spend with someone who was paying a bit of attention to me. Maybe I deserve all the bad stuff that is happening and will happen after this-a man who knows he can ditch me and go back to his perfect angel(the one who is good enough to marry and the one who is good enough to have his children). I don't know why I got inolved! Its quite a story. And I need help. So if anyone is free to listen at all...let me know Thank you x 1
Pierre Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 What do I want the outcome to be..? Well, he has a family, I never expected he would leave them for me, its just not practical! I personally think he should stay and work on his marriage (he is surprised at that and told me that it sounds like I really want his marriage to work). He also gets a bit upset at times because he says it sounds like I am pushing him away and discouraging him from carrying on this thing with me. At the end of the day, I honestly and sincerely want him to be happy. Whatever he chooses in life. I am not talking about how he has to make a choice between me or his family, I just mean for himself. He told me that it makes him want to cry when I wish for his happiness... I am sorry to hear your story. You sound like a very nice woman that fell for the moves of a seasoned MOM. I see that you have low expectations and that is like heaven for your guy. As many narcissists he is a bit insecure and would rather see you wanting him to get a divorce, but in the end your docile low maintenance manners suit him just right. I suggest you try very hard not to lose your dignity while you are doing this and please try to have a life of your own. If you let this go deeper you will be left with very little other than the thrill. I guess while I am waiting for Mr Right...or Mr Whoever to show up I thought I had some free time to spend with someone who was paying a bit of attention to me. Hmm, as long as you are with Mr. MOM you will miss every single Mr. Right that comes your way. How old are you? How could you look for Mr. Right while you are madly in love with MOM? It does not work that way. Of course you needed attention. That is why MOM picked you out of the group. Have you seen how a lioness watches her prey? They always pick an animal that is slow or injured. They ignore the healthy fast ones. Maybe I deserve all the bad stuff that is happening and will happen after this-a man who knows he can ditch me and go back to his perfect angel(the one who is good enough to marry and the one who is good enough to have his children). I don't know why I got inolved! Why are you so down on yourself? Sounds like major low self esteem. Why do you say you are not good enough to give him a child? Its quite a story. And I need help. So if anyone is free to listen at all...let me know Thank you x If you are a young woman I suggest you seek a psychologist to see why you aim so low. And even when you are aiming this low you still think you are not good enough. Why don't you try to end the affair and seek counseling? Please do it before you go deeper and deeper into a world where you lose all your worth. 2
Pierre Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Why do we do it? I'm a MW involved with a MM. Is it the excitement, the longing, the flattery? I'm struggling with this question at the moment because I recently saw the MM. Is it worth the little bits of time together? This is my first time asking such personal quesitons here so I'm hoping some of the LS community can share their feelings or tell me why they're involved in this type of relationship and what they want the outcome to be. See my reply below to Sarabi
Sarabi Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Hi thanks for your reply. I am 27. I've just finished studying(again, I have 2 degrees now lol). I am working (at a small branch of a supermarket) hoping to find something better. I met him at work(he rotates around stores, I am fixed). He's 28, she's 24. They've been married nearly 5 yrs...anyway! It started with a couple of drinks and texting. He said his wife was quite needy and at times he found it exhausting but for the most part, I couldn't see what was wrong with their relationship apart from that they were isolatd from other people(her family do no live here and his family don't really like her so he doesn't see them much). Then one night he told me his wife knew...(even though at this point it was just texting a couple of meetups). I told him that instead of texting me he should talk to her. Anyway, they had and she didn't seem that bothered. That bit I found confusing... So his wife and child went away for a few days and we were seeing each other. Mostly talking but yes, an element of intimacy came into it too. After they came back he sent me a message saying he couldn't do it anymore, he'd betrayed them, he felt guilty he hoped I found someone special for me etc. etc. etc. so I was home alone at that point at did the crying thing...then went to see my aunt and cousins lol he was texting later. I didn't reply(I came to LS and was reading posts and trying to go no contact!). The next day he texted, I didn't reply. On monday(this is in October sometime) he texted again. I guess I should kick myself for that because I replied and this whole second part of it started again. Much texting later led to him asking over and over if I am angry with him or upset...and do I want to beat him up. I kept saying no. He mentioned having a fight and the two of us kissing and making up afterwards...I mentioned how guilty he said he felt and was it worth it to be having those feelings of guilt etc. again. He asked me if I thought he should do the right thing? I told him it was an ambiguous statement and that "the right thing" is different depending on the person and situation. Moving on...we were texting but didn't see each other for ages until one day he gave me a lift to work one day and told me he missed me. Then it started to intensify again. He has said many things-he feels frustrated with life, that there was a time when he was exhausted with the whole thing and he felt like calling it a day because she was so argumentative... Now at times I feel like I am a counsellor for him (or them) and their issues and to be honest, I find that annoying that thinking about him/her etc. is consuming so much of my time and energy. I tell him that shee needs to forgive him because if she keeps talking about me, how will the two of them move on. At times he said she has treated him like rubbish, infront of her own mother. She has even hit him. He thinks she has taken his kindness for weakness and he is fed up. He is also very upset deep down. He doesn't have a good relationship with his mum. He is black but the wife isn't and he keeps talking about how black women didn't want him when he was single and embarassed him so he turned to women of other races and he says he feels sad because he "settled", even though it wasn't really what he wanted... I asked him if he really wanted the love of a black woman and he said that yes, he did but it was too late now. Ok then. I asked him if he loves her. He said yes but not as much as he used to. He's not head over heels. He says they get a lot of nasty comments from other people and he is tired of defending his relationship but I told him that if they care about/love each other then it shouldn't matter. He told me he loves me...and still tells me that. He's tried to encourage me with positive thinking and affirmations etc. and saying I need to change my mindset to get what I want. Sometimes I sit and wonder how did I get caught up in this couple's psychodrama when they will be off living a nice life together and I am stuck here by myself!?!? I suggested counselling for them but he refused Last week I didn't talk to him because he really said something that annoyed me. He said that black women choose to be single, then complain about it...but he said something about how he had his own self worth and that if his own women didn't want him then he wouldn't be prepared to wait for them. Ok that was fine but if he is so happy with this wife of his why does he feel the need to bash other women!? Women he is implying are not even worth the wait..? I told a couple of friends that and they said he sounds confused... He sent a text one day saying that he had married too early and hadn't waited for me and for that he needed to be punished...how could anyone have forseen something like this? He has everything he claims he wanted out of life, I told him he needs to figure out why he is unhappy or unsatisfied with his situation. I don't judge this girl of his by the way, I don't know her and I am only getting his side of the story. I came to a couple of conclusions...they married very young and maybe it was silly but its not my problem, its their choice and their responsibility to work on their relationship...and I really should try to stop worrying about it! Sometimes I feel like he rubs it in a little about them. They want to move abroad, they want more children, they already know what they are naming the next baby...One day I asked him how he would feel if I was the one doing that? Telling him how much I loved him then talking so much about what plans I had for life with another man. In a text of something we were discussing yesterday he said "I am a hypocrite. I have a wife but I don't want you to talk about other men". I personally don't understand the jealousy bit(he has admitted he will be happy for me but maybe a little sad and jealous if I find a boyfriend). I know I would like it to stop eventually. Sooner is obviously better rather than later but I feel too attached. Any advice on how to stop? Do you let them down gently? Do you just say goodbye one day then never reply/phone/email ever again? Do people stay friends...how does that work!? How do you do it in a way that isn't angry/nasty sounding? Excuse the looooooooooooooong post
Sarabi Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Oh ok so more on me. I have started seeing a therapist I think a lack of confidence/assertiveness/self esteem has been a problem for many years not just now He suggests maybe there are issues with attachment, relationships with guys who are like my father i.e. unavailable or not fully available. Oh I have attracted a lot of rubbish before. Funnily enugh in the beginning this MM told me he wanted me to have his next baby. It was a bit of a wild thing to say, we didn't really know each other and what about his wife!? I am one of those children who comes from one of a long string of many mothers...I wouldn't intentionally do that myself(unless I was really wreckless). then he thought the better of it and said that it wouldn't be good for his wife...but recently he has started all that "what if we had a baby what would it be like?" stuff again. I personally always wanted to be married before having children so this one for me is a no no...because I know I'll be left holding this child, alone! I do admit, I have a bit of a devil may care attitude about this whole thing. I guess I gave up on relationships when I was about 22/23 and finding a good person really. I thought maybe I wasn't pretty enough or skinny enough or worked in the wrong job or didn't make enough money... My mum also never really advocated relationships so I never felt I could talking to her about anything after my first boyfriend(she was angry about that). All my friends seem to be married, in relationships, moving on with life...and here I am. 27, only just finished uni for the second time, still not working a professional job...I sometimes feel inadequate and not good enough for anything! A man, a job etc. I spent all my time doing stuff that should make me an interesting person but it feels like its all been a waste of time.
rachelle Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 For me personally it was like an addiction not so much to him, but the way he made me feel I think it's the same for the MM. You become each others secret little fantasy and somehow believe the attraction is so strong that you have a chance at being happy together When in reality he probably just wants to string you along So that when he's not getting attention from the W he clearly has another plan b he can fall back on that he can use for another source of attention. But all in all it was the addictive attraction, the challenge, and most of the curiosity.
Pierre Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 I do admit, I have a bit of a devil may care attitude about this whole thing. I guess I gave up on relationships when I was about 22/23 and finding a good person really. I thought maybe I wasn't pretty enough or skinny enough or worked in the wrong job or didn't make enough money... My mum also never really advocated relationships so I never felt I could talking to her about anything after my first boyfriend(she was angry about that). All my friends seem to be married, in relationships, moving on with life...and here I am. 27, only just finished uni for the second time, still not working a professional job...I sometimes feel inadequate and not good enough for anything! A man, a job etc. I spent all my time doing stuff that should make me an interesting person but it feels like its all been a waste of time. And therefore, you decided to chase married men. At least they provide you with more attention than single men. You are the poster child of a woman with extreme low self esteem. You need counseling ASAP. Just tell the psychologist what you have typed in this forum. Stop your affair ASAP. The affair will make you much worse. Your MOM is a loser. 2
ComingInHot Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 People may get involved because the grass looks Greener. They see the picture of a perfect life that is dreampt up in the Affair fantasy land then think that could become a reality. The reality more times than not is the grass is Not greener it's really fake astro turf...
alexandria35 Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 He is also very upset deep down. He doesn't have a good relationship with his mum. He is black but the wife isn't and he keeps talking about how black women didn't want him when he was single and embarassed him so he turned to women of other races and he says he feels sad because he "settled", even though it wasn't really what he wanted... I asked him if he really wanted the love of a black woman and he said that yes, he did but it was too late now. Ok then. I asked him if he loves her. He said yes but not as much as he used to. He's not head over heels. He says they get a lot of nasty comments from other people and he is tired of defending his relationship but I told him that if they care about/love each other then it shouldn't matter. He told me he loves me...and still tells me that. He's tried to encourage me with positive thinking and affirmations etc. and saying I need to change my mindset to get what I want. Sometimes I sit and wonder how did I get caught up in this couple's psychodrama when they will be off living a nice life together and I am stuck here by myself!?!? I suggested counselling for them but he refused Last week I didn't talk to him because he really said something that annoyed me. He said that black women choose to be single, then complain about it...but he said something about how he had his own self worth and that if his own women didn't want him then he wouldn't be prepared to wait for them. Ok that was fine but if he is so happy with this wife of his why does he feel the need to bash other women! Oh Brother This guy sounds like a little closet misogynist. He has mommy issues, race issues and an overall deep disdain for women in general. He will use and hurt black women for their perceived abandonment of him and then he will use and hurt white women (or women of other races) because he doesn't really want them either but he feels like they're the only ones that will love him. He's the worst kind of woman hater because instead of just being outright nasty and mean he plays the poor little victim of all the women who have done him wrong. He may say he loves his wife or that he loves you but really he's really only out for himself and he will hurt any woman who gets involved with him because his mommy hurt him and now he blames women in general for his own shortcommings.. 3
Sarabi Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 I agree with alexandria, this guy doesn't like or respect any women. That conversation alone should tell you that he has so many red flags that you ought to run. Yeah I guess I should kick myself for that. I had the opportunity to just forget about it all once and for all considering this was the second time I had heard the "black women didn't want me and now they're ruining my relationship" mantra...but because I caved in after ignoring him, replied and told him I missed him(oh silly girl! ) we are still in touch. Anyway, I am not running, I am flying...to Spain in a couple of hours to see a friend for a few days. lol
Sarabi Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 And therefore, you decided to chase married men. At least they provide you with more attention than single men. You are the poster child of a woman with extreme low self esteem. You need counseling ASAP. Just tell the psychologist what you have typed in this forum. Stop your affair ASAP. The affair will make you much worse. Your MOM is a loser. I know what you are all saying is right...its just that I can't bring myself to call him a "loser". Not yet anyway The therapist knows little snippets. He said that he is not telling me I must stop because I have to make that decision for myself but...that if I did stop and it came from me, then I would find that empowering. He asked me to look at the correlation between this guy and my dad; he said that maybe when this guy has the time to pay me a little bit of attention, or fatherly advice when he is available, I feel happy and somewhat cared for and get caught up in thinking "awww, he is such a nice man". He said to be careful because it can end up being quite manipulative.
Sarabi Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 Attached to WHAT? Some whiner who uses you as his sounding board and free therapist to cry about how miserable his little life is? He's the dumbass who chose to get married so young, so why is he talking about his 'next' baby's name? What an idiot. He just digs himself further and further IN and then wants to whine to anyone who'll listen to him. Not sure what you're 'attached' to as there's just nothing attractive about this pansy at all. Sometimes I have no idea what I am "attached" to. Its like a cycle. I get annoyed and fed up and think "Ok I will tell him that I wish him well and I want to move on" but...then when they give you a bit of time/attention it feels like he cares... Its like a donkey and carrot situation. I feel like Eeyore. I can say that the more it goes on the more I can see the hypocrisy/double standards for what they are. Today a conversation went along the lines of how he will love me forever and when I am married with kids, what will I do if he is standing outside my house screaming my name at midnight...? So melodramatic I was almost laughing...and replied that I won't be able to hear those screams from the country he and his family are planning to move to. He then said I won't care about him and I will have a family of my own. I told him that it was really funny...how I am single, he knows I have no one and he is getting upset that I won't care about him...when HE is the one who is married with a child and always talking to ME about his plans for the future with his wife !
Sarabi Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 I agree with the others - he is a woman hater. Also remember - he is not an honest person. You say his wife knows....really? Have you spoken with her? He is playing a game with you - stop allowing him to. He wants to use you for times when his wife is mad or he is bored. Stop being his option. He has made his choice - to stay married. Respect that and move on. I haven't spoken to her, I haven't met her. She wants/wanted to meet me but I don't want to really. She was always accusing him of flirting with/meeting other girl and she went through his phone early on before anything really happened and questioned him about it. Then after we got a lot closer he told her everything and said he had to stop. I bailed out of my own self imposed no contact after 2/3 days...and now we're still "involved". She told him he defends me a lot when he talks about me and I am doing this to her for taking a good black man away from a black woman (erm...not true, he is not divorcing, I haven't taken him anywhere!) So this perfect angel thinks I am a wicked witch who led her poor little lamb of a husband to the slaughterhouse...hello, did he not have a choice??? He says she is asking him if he is still seeing me. She told him his phone is on silent too much and he probably saved me under a man's name (TRUE...). She tells him she doesn't care if he wants to go out and f**k, he can go and do it. To be honest there's not much sexual activity between us, it is mostly emotional. Not right but still, mostly emotional. I did tell him one day that this whole thing is probably a revenge mission for him to get his own back on all those horrible ghosts of relationships past...by using and humiliating one of the very girls he says he really wanted but didn't think was worth waiting for ... Whatever. He doesn't want to be alone and he wants to be a good dad to the child so he doesn't want to split. She (in my opinion) doesn't really know much about life and has never had to do anything for herself...so she won't leave him. The pair of them will never leave each other. Was anyone holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to be together? Please... As my colleague says, not my circus not my monkeys. I NEED TO STOP ENABLING HIM...but I have never been good at setting boundaries and sticking to them...arrrggh, its something I'm working on with my therapist!!!
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