She wants out after 20 plus years? My move?

[TaraMaiden]

TM - who was that directed at? I don't see anyone giving anything but solid direction.

 

You.

He's already acknowledged his part in the whole scenario, and up to that point, hadn't had the opportunity to really implement anything, as he was still "taking advice".

Please don't take umbrage, but an assault of upper-case and exclamation marks just made it look like a beating around the head, when he's only just "taken his coat off....."

[2sunny]

If your W wants an apology from your sister - they need to sit down and talk through THEIR issues.

 

Putting you in the middle of it will only bring more drama.

 

Tell your W to handle her own issues.

 

TM - caps and exclamations were meant for inflection - not shouting.

[Gunny376]

The good news is that she's in contact with you. To me that means that she's at least willing to discuss things with you. (Don't take that and run with it! Its just a sign of willingness)

 

Its wrong for her to put the whole SIL/Apology thing on you. You've no contorl over the DS nor the DW ~ and whatever bad blood there is between them. That's on them and them alone.

 

What you can do is to put the DS on notice that you WILL be henceforth standing up for and taking the DW side. Right or wrong. That's just the way it is and the way it has to be. DS has a problem with that? That's what it is! The DS's problem. I sense that this is what the DW is wanting anyway, for you to "man up" against the DS.

[candyland123]

This is what I would want in your wife's position. Logically she knows her sil will not apologize. She wants you to stand up to your sister. Write your sister a letter telling her what was wrong with the exchanges between her and your wife. DO NOT LIE or make stuff up, but be honest about what she has done to hurt your wife and how it has impacted your relationship with her.

 

Then send a copy to your wife. Tell her you cannot control another persons behavior only your own. You see how your behavior has affected her. Tell her honestly what you are feeling now, I DO NOT WANT YOU TO LIE, again capital letters because making up feelings or words to satisfy her needs will not help in the future.

 

Her contacting you is a good step. Write the letter, slowly and thoughtfully. Re-read it several times. Watch for inflections and interpretations. lol I have been caught by wrongly interpreted words before. Its a start.

[Gunny376]

This is what I would want in your wife's position. Logically she knows her sil will not apologize. She wants you to stand up to your sister. Write your sister a letter telling her what was wrong with the exchanges between her and your wife. DO NOT LIE or make stuff up, but be honest about what she has done to hurt your wife and how it has impacted your relationship with her.

 

Then send a copy to your wife. Tell her you cannot control another persons behavior only your own. You see how your behavior has affected her. Tell her honestly what you are feeling now, I DO NOT WANT YOU TO LIE, again capital letters because making up feelings or words to satisfy her needs will not help in the future.

 

Her contacting you is a good step. Write the letter, slowly and thoughtfully. Re-read it several times. Watch for inflections and interpretations. lol I have been caught by wrongly interpreted words before. Its a start.

 

After you'w wrote it, re-written it X10, put it in the mail and mail it to yourself and read it "a-damn gin"

[Caldespair]

Thanks so much for this incredible advice. Im glad I did not respond to my wife's demand immediately - It would have mucked it up even more.

But one issue involved with all your sage advice (what are you all counselors??) is that what you suggest I do is LOGICAL and my wife is not. She's in her crisis mode and may DEMAND the pint of blood from my sister. If she demands the blood from my sister, do I have my sister write it to save my marriage?

[TaraMaiden]

Originally Posted by 2sunny

TM - caps and exclamations were meant for inflection - not shouting.

 

Gotcha 2sunny, thanks....

 

Caldespair, Nobody can save your marriage, except you and your wife.

This is not on someone else, and I think, on reflection, this issue with your sister may well be a primary one, but it's not THE primary one....

 

See if you can contact her tomorrow, or at some point to discuss this further, and put it to her that what goes on between the two of you is currently more important than the sister issue.... and while you completely see her point about the anger, hurt and distress it's caused her - isn't there something more direct you can do, specifically to do with your (joint) relationship, first?

What does she need from you, in the relationship, as her husband?

 

You want to focus on your marriage, and do whatever it takes to get things between you both, on track as much as is possible. But the Sister issue, while it can wait, will be dealt with, you promise.....

[BlueStone]

Let me be the devil's advocate here:-) Maybe I missed some some posts but I'm not sure that your wife is absolutely right about your sister. (Of note, I have a manipulative SIL, who has a big role in ruining our marriage and my hb was always and always on her side...so I know the feeling. With that said, I decided to make my move and that was to exclude the SIL from my life, I don't socialize with her ever, I don't go to see her, she doesn't come to our house and that's that from my part. I realized that I have to deal with this question on my own.) Having you make your sister to write an apology letter to your wife looks a bit extreme to me. And I'm not quite sure that it is only your sister who is to be blamed. As Tara said, support your wife and postpone this SIL question. Not sure why your wife demands this letter. If she wanted to be friends with your sister she would want to sit down with her (and you) to discuss the issues. If she does not want to be friends than the apology letter would be just a trophy. She can not think that years and years of bad relationship can vanish with a forced out apology letter.

[2sunny]

It's not your job to fix this with your sister...it's your wife's to fix her own resentments.

 

Never, ever in counseling was I EVER advised to have anyone else fix MY $hit FOR me! That was only for me to set it right!

 

Your wife has the wrong idea about your role. You CAN be supportive of her if you wish - but ultimately it's up to your wife to sit down and calmly talk through her issues with your sister - or not.

 

My sister has issues with her MIL - when I hear my BIL on the phone with his mom (my sister doesn't talk to his mom) I hear him simply and calmly saying "I'll give that message to Susan" (his wife). He stays out of any of it - except to pass along info if need be.

 

Getting in the middle of those two women could really be a disastrous outcome. It's up to them to decide to set things right by getting honest and loving with each other - or to continue being nasty and at odds.

 

If you need to - you can choose to tell your sister AND your wife to work it out themselves and not to talk to you about it.

 

Decide where your healthy boundary is - and stick to it!

 

IF your W is ending the M over this without seeing a counselor and trying to change things - she's already checked out of the M (hope not).

 

We all have family issues - but it's best to know what is mine to handle and what is someone else's. when it's someone else's stuff - I tell them to set things right and leave me out of the middle of it.

 

State clearly what you do and don't plan to do - that way no one can be mad at you for sticking with the boundary you stated.

[Caldespair]

As I noted earlier, wife called, about 5 days ago. Screamed and yelled, then calmed down after 15 mins of this. But we had no normal conversation. She told me up from she was prompted to call by my 16 year old who said "your my mom, but if u don't try to work this out with dad, the I will NEVER forgive that". Also my 18 year old said the same to my wife.

 

Since, I told my wife, via e mail, I am attending counseling sessions to figure things out. I then e mailed and asked if she wanted to go with me to work this out on a pre scheduled appointment. No replys from both these e mails. So this morning I left VM message asking her if she would attend with me. Nothing back from her. So I am going on my own, 2nd counseling session in 6 days (it is helpful and this counselor is good and sorts things out for me).

Do I go NC with her? Or do I leave low stress e mails giving updates or??

It's a mess.

Referring to earlier comment about my wife, she was so angry, yelling, screaming in that conversation we had 5 days ago, so I believe she's not "done".

Right?

Lastly for now - her birthday is 12-14, we were going to go away, alone. Now do should I send her flowers on her birthday even if we are not communicating?

Thanks for all input.

[BlueStone]

I think your wife has a hard time to stand up for herself and maybe this is the first time she is doing it. The kids should not pressure her into anything and she should have the power to say no to teenagers. Combined with your daily calls and emails, it is more than low stress. I would let her to sort things out. Counseling probably would help her too, it's another decision she needs to make -for herself.

[Caldespair]

Bluestone- my wife can stand up for herself big time. Always has been that way. But she's from div family, and knows what it can do to our daughters. I wrote my last e mail to her for a while. I just said if there is anything I can do I will. Also don't give up, just yet. Im surprisingly handling things well - I'm surprised at my strength. I mean we had a low level fight, I wanted an apology, then got it, but then she did not want me at home. Thus a week plus at hotel. I'm usually the more go along partner in the marriage, and my request for apology perhaps shocked her. Really, I think we had overall good marriage but there is something about holidays for her, and her mother, that makes them difficult. I miss my best friend, sorry she's upset. I will try my best to work it out and what will b will b. got me in a contemplative mood. Been with her 27 years, we have had a good run. She has had numerous people problems throiut her life , did not speak w mom for 10 years, dumped a 15 year friend due to a fight. This site has saved me- theropy and advice I never knew of.

[BlueStone]

Bit confused here, since you said "your my mom, but if u don't try to work this out with dad, the I will NEVER forgive that". Also my 18 year old said the same to my wife."

This looks like pressure to me. The relationship with your sister did not look like she was standing up for herself either. With that said, you know your wife the best, we can only guess what motivates her behavior.

About your strength, you were wise to go into therapy right away and not wait until the pain becomes unbearable. It shows personal responsibility. I like that you are shaping your own path rather than blaming others.

[Caldespair]

Got response this am from wife. Basically it summed up her entire reasons why we can never go on together. She basically said , you always side with your family (especially my sister) and that we see my family, which is my brother, sister, my mom (dementia) and my father and nieces and nephews, to often. We see them once a month. Soo, kaput. Final. It's over. And this e mail from her was not ranting and raving, it was much more subdued and calm, which makes me think she's at a better place (my wife).

I was always the peace maker between my sis and wife. Always wanted all to get along when we met, have nice dinner or x mas together. I was wrong to not nip it in the bud but for years we adjusted on holidays, taking 2 cars so wife could leave early. I would monitor the conversations to see all was well. But not enough.

What I was trying to say in previous post was, x mas, even before my sister, my wife and her divorced parents, all had some emotional issues, perhaps mental issues. I've been putting up with blue Xmas for years with my wife.

Thanks god I am going to a counselor today later, I need to get my head on str8. Looks like the life I wanted will be gone, and I will have a new chapter. Who knows, if I can stay on top of my feelings and emotions, I can perhaps in time thrive. It has not all been a can of roses from my point of view (my marriage)' but I wanted to make things work. I am a good person, hard working business owner, respectful and polite. I'm 49, educated and I will survive.

Next step, separation agreement. Keep you posted.

[TaraMaiden]

sad to think she believes that married to you, she's married to your family.

She wants out of the marriage because of family issues; maybe once you've separated, she'll realise she doesn't miss your family - but she misses you.

 

Whatever you do, don't let your children bad-mouth her, and don't ever express impatience about her, to them.... What she chooses to do is her business, but the crimes we heap upon our ex, and reveal to our children, sadly merely serves eventually to come back and bite us on the @ss.

 

As my ex-H. discovered to his cost.....

[Caldespair]

Tara I'm hoping your correct. I hope but don't expect it to work out. Good signs that she,in e mail, left out all the swear words and negative mean stuff.

On my 16 and 18 year old, if they want to talk to me about frustration w their mother, I should discourage ? I stay way from negative comments to my kids about wife, but I do let them know I am going to counseling, trying to get mom to go. I guess even if my sis thing is to be demise of 27 yr relationship, I want my girls knowing their dad is really trying to put it back together. Should I stay away from these comments?

Tara- somehow, with the possibility of the end, I don't feel that bad. Kinda excited to rediscover myself. Little guilt about that. Thanks

[Caldespair]

One Other low priority item. Her b day Friday , should I send flowers? Or skipp it? I guess I want to, but don't want to cause problems. What u think?

[TaraMaiden]

On my 16 and 18 year old, if they want to talk to me about frustration w their mother, I should discourage ? I stay way from negative comments to my kids about wife....

Listen, remain neutral, and simply say their mother's unhappy, it seems she's been unhappy for a while, and this is how she sees things panning out. You accept your responsibility, but TbH, the minutiae are not your daughters' concerns or business. You are both their parents, and how you both feel about them, will never change....

 

but I do let them know I am going to counseling, trying to get mom to go. I guess even if my sis thing is to be demise of 27 yr relationship, I want my girls knowing their dad is really trying to put it back together. Should I stay away from these comments?

By all means tell them you're attending counselling, but simply point out that it's for you to see your way through this and to emerge a 'better person'. Don't lay reasons or rationale with others. You're going to counselling for you.

leave it at that.

Tara- somehow, with the possibility of the end, I don't feel that bad. Kinda excited to rediscover myself. Little guilt about that. Thanks

The pressure to being the 'fixer' is off. It's liberating in a way, to be released form the pressure of having to provide answers and justifications to everything. Feelings will fluctuate, ebb and flow. Just roll with the punches.

One Other low priority item. Her b day Friday , should I send flowers? Or skipp it? I guess I want to, but don't want to cause problems. What u think?

 

Send her a card, and wish her a good day.

That should do it. It's sufficient to show her you recognise the day, but not overly gushing.

[ynohtna]

Go quiet for a while. When she gets in touch, tell her you've been quietly thinking about everything, and you see her point. then approach a remedy by listening, and asking what she most needs now. What can you do about this?

 

Chances are, she's been so busy thinking about how wronged she's felt, she hasn't either given a thought to a solution, or she believes it's gone too far now for reversal.

 

You may have to man up and take a separation on the chin, but nobody ever said this would be easy, or have the Christmas fairy-tale ending.

I wish I could say otherwise, but.... well..... all I can say is that Disney, and other schmalzy movie writers have a lot to answer for.....

 

This is where I am. I feel like I can do nothing correct in her eyes right now, and everything that goes wrong seems to be my fault. She is talking divorce and separation. We have three kids. Just seems so unnecessary to me, and I have been silently hoping she would just "snap out of it" but she hasnt.

 

I dont really know what to do. I am existing. Trying to be positive, and hoping for something to break, but she is a very different person than me, she seems more cold, critical and she has made up her mind, but we are coexisting in the same house.

 

I am coming to grips with the separation thing.

[Caldespair]

Similar stuff maybe. My wife and I talke, phone ecru day of the work week. I'm very thoughtfully to her and I was kinda the go along. She wants us to go to Hawaii again, I'd say surel she was leader of the pact. She sneakily from a lawyer , I'm telling her lets try mediation first and if des not work then counselors. Hate to sped 100k of my kids college fund on thus shyy process

[TaraMaiden]

(You need to type that out again........... )

[Steadfast]

I dont really know what to do. I am existing. Trying to be positive, and hoping for something to break, but she is a very different person than me, she seems more cold, critical and she has made up her mind, but we are coexisting in the same house.

 

It doesn't sound like much of a life to me. You are in the unenviable position of opposing her decisions; how else would you expect her to act? The harder you try to save it, the harder she'll pull the other way. Why? Because (in her mind) you're trying to take away her ability to choose. Again, in the grand scheme this might not be the best decision for anyone, but she's not thinking that. She's looking at right now.

 

Like any contract, if one person wants out, there's little anyone can do. You have to wrap your head around the fact that if she wants out, she'll get out. Resistance by you only makes the desire stronger. Yeah, as guys we tend to think we can 'fix' anything, but you can't repair what she's taken in both hands, broken in half, and hid. You can't. Don't try.

 

There's a good chance you already said too much. Here's my advice; tell the daughters (or any other family member) to refrain from commenting on your relationship. This outside pressure will only infuriate her. Next, get her alone, take her hands in yours and tell her you love her and don't want a divorce. Apologize for past misgivings, tell her it's important to you, and that you're willing. Then? Leave her alone. And I mean alone. No kissing, hugging, touching, or talking about anything except matters that pertain to the children. Let her come to you. If she does, she does. Talk then. If she doesn't, she wasn't going to anyway. See my point? Take your power back.

 

Finally, I could not, or would not live under such circumstances. If, after another week or so your wife is steady on the course I'd ask her to move out. Living under such conditions is not healthy. Time for her to be gone.

 

Spoken from experience. Not pride. Learn the difference.