Religious Wedding, spouse turns atheist

[Pompom]

You can be a perfectly good and faithful person without it being about God. Whatever values one adopted because of God, one can still adhere to for one's own free will.

[taiko]

Agnostic is actually the term I prefer for my lack of faith. The fact is that "I don't know." I won't commit to a belief system as I see no evidence to merit such a lifetime commotment but I don't mind others believing that they have it figured out. The fact that I am in a minority is somewhat humbling but I also have never been one to follow the crowd. The crowd can be wrong.

 

I don't think that the fact that I don't have a belief in a higher power has influenced my ethics. I have never used it as a justification to do unto others before they do unto me. Acting in a good, honorable, noble way is its own reward. I act with integrity and people can count on me to keep my word. I don't need a book to outline it for me and I've never felt like an anarchist.

 

As for my wedding, I acquiessed to my wife and in-laws' unrelenting insistence upon a Catholic ceremony. I found it interesting how many pieces of paper God needed me to sign to be able to do so since I was not a member of the Catholic church. While I have always been agnostic, I met their requirements by indicating that I was "raised protestant." A bit of a lie of omission but I figured God wouldn't much care since I don't believe he exists anyway.

 

I suppose it goes without saying but, yeah, it was my religious wife that cheated for a year, had a threesome with a prostitute, lied throughout our reconciliation, and filed for divorce. But not to worry, my wife went to confession; I will be the one in hell (if you believe in that sort of thing).

 

The church only cared that you had been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Not that you actually participated and believed, that is an evangelic requirement. If you were not or baptized with a different formula of words then a separate set of papers because you were a member of a "cult" would have been necessary.

[KathyM]

You pick up well. I'm not really sure what my wife was when I married her. Probably agnostic, but steeped in her Christian family tradition. She seemed to agree with a lot of the Baha'i ideas, maybe she just wanted me to be impressed, I dunno. She was fairly keen on getting a preacher for the wedding, but maybe that was just to please her mother. Later she moved to the "don't label me" phase. She started playing with Tarot cards secretly...I guess she thought I would disapprove? Frankly I didn't care, I was prepared to spend the rest of my life with her whatever she was beliefwise. Then yeah, probably the last 5 years or so she was openly atheist. She became more and more hostile to the Baha'i faith, maybe empowered by my inactivity. I've been almost completely inactive for 15 years or so. I started having doubts about some things, like the fast, views on gays, animals and souls, lesser peace by 2000 (which was ..um...13 years ago now). So I wouldn't call myself 100% Baha'i like I used to be...more of a confused Baha'i who goes to a lot of stuff with his zealous Baha'i mother...cause she moved in after I divorced.

 

I'm blabbing. My daughter is with my ex this weekend...

 

Anyway, if you asked my ex, she'd say the cheating had nothing to do with her atheism. I'm just adding up her shifting attitudes over the years, and that statement she made about her not believing in the afterlife. How that drove her to divorce rather than spend time working things out with me.

 

Her sister was a blatant atheist before my ex was, I think that had a lot to do with things as well. Her sister seems a lot more grounded in reality though. She was the first person I told about the affair, only 1 week off from D-Day. She was completely shocked and was the first person to say that my wife should go NC with the OM.

Oh, so she didn't abandon her faith because of the affair, she had the affair after a series of changes in her belief system. I see. She sounds like a very lost and confused woman who doesn't know what she wants or believes.

[Steen719]

It has helped not to be alone but sometimes I feel like I went from the frying pan into the fire. My GF is fantastic to me (which is a real switch from a wife that was impossible to please) but she is also divorced, has two kids, and there is the inherent pressure to move the relationship forward.

 

My ex and I have been separated for almost a year now (and the kids are well adjusted) so about 6 weeks or so ago my GF and I felt it was ok to get everyone together. We did about 3 platonic meetings. My kids really like hers and vice versa. Her kids also like me and my kids like her. Recently I asked my kids for their permission to date her and they were enthusiastic. Her kids proactively told her to date me.

 

That was just a few weeks back and it didn't take long for all the kids to ask about moving in together, buying a house, whether we were allowed to get married, if we would get married, and so forth. We haven't discussed marriage; we're smart enough to know we need to take our time. We can easily put them off with "it's too soon" and all that but the pressure is there and decisions need to be made. It's ok and a lot of it is incredibly positive but, it's a lot, you know? The kids would like a home and more of a family. But knowing the divorce rate for second marriages (and my own experience), it's hard not to just put the brakes on everything. We both have exes, shared custody issues, and so forth. I could use a handbook.

 

Enough about me. Apologies for the t/j. Back to those damn atheists.

 

Me too (t/j) for the following! But!!! Oh wow, so fast! Well, no matter about what I was going to say. It is not my business...LOL. Good luck to you.

 

My D married 2 Christian men that were both raised in good Christian families. Both of these men cheated on her! First H left her for his OW. Second H she divorced for his 2 long term affairs.

 

Honestly, I don't think this is that unusual, either. Their Christian upbringing did not keep them from cheating or divorcing. Values are not always about religion. They are a culmination of our upbringing, our environment and culture and what is important to us personally (and maybe what our families emphasize as being of utmost importance).

[KathyM]

Not sure she ever really had much faith...just a lot of Italian Catholic traditions burned into her brain. She became significantly more religious after Dday (church every week rather than twice a year, tithing, etc) but it didn't stop her from lying to my face while she was professing to never lie to me again. I think NH and I both agree that the lying is what is the most damaging and her 7 months of renewed religion didn't stop her from doing it.

It sounds like her renewed interest in religion was just a show to make you believe she wanted to change. Some people use religion to mask their real selves. Some people compartmentalize and think that as long as they go to church, what they do at other times of the week is O.K. I know a woman who went directly from our church group meeting to hook up with her married lover at a hotel whom she was cheating on her husband with. I didn't know it at the time. It amazes me how some people can be so hypocritical, and live such double lives.

[KathyM]

its all a bunch of baloney. there is no good side to faith. christians use it as a weapon against me. children learn about santa claus and to behave nice but soon after they condemn anyone who doesn't share their faith they they will burn eternally. i've been told this by several hundred people and three times its led to an ugly physical fight. i hate religion and i hate religious people. they are the least trustworthy and most hypocritical of all.

I agree that some Christians are hypocritical. But there are also very many others who are loving, caring and giving people who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it, and bring you food if you were hungry. And visit you if you were lonely. And help you in any way they can. I know many of those types of people who are a blessing to others. Maybe if you wouldn't lump all Christians into the category of hypocrites, you might have a chance to meet those who are very true to their faith and a blessing to others.

[BetheButterfly]

How many of you have seen this happen? What do the vows mean when one person becomes atheist? A Baha'i wedding simply entails saying "We will all verily abide by the will of God" and everything else is left up to the two people getting married. My own wedding was double duty, full Christian and Baha'i. I'm guessing many atheists still honor the vows and remain faithful.

 

In my case I feel my wife began to devalue marriage in general. Near the end she started talking about how people weren't meant to be monogamous, every marriage was messed up...I remember being confused because I thought we had a good marriage, the best on the block! =D Turns out she cheated and we are divorcing (separated since July). She told me at the very end of it all that she didn't even believe in an afterlife...and when you die that's it. She wasn't going to waste any time.

 

Thoughts, experiences? If you are an atheist, what are your thoughts on marriage? What vows did you recite? Did you use a preacher? Where did you get married?

 

 

I'm not an Atheist, but I just wanted to share my personal experience with my husband's and my wedding vows.

 

We both are Christian and believe in the sanctity of marriage. We consider the following to be breathtakingly beautiful and true:

 

Matthew 19 (I boldened some.)

Matthew 19 NIV - Divorce - When Jesus had finished - Bible Gateway

 

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[Genesis 1:27] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[Genesis 2:24]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

 

 

We also believe the following is sad but true concerning divorce:

 

 

"7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

 

Now, we don't know the future. However, I personally hope and pray that my husband and I will both be faithful to God and to each other. We do believe that God brought and joined us together. We believe our relationship is three-fold, sorta like a triangle, with my hubby and me being two points and God being the point on top.

 

Our promise to love each other and be faithful to each other we made before God and before witnesses. We didn't need the government's marriage certificate to make our promise. We just needed to promise in front of God and witnesses (but we dutifully bought the marriage certificate and registered with the government anyways).

 

I am sorry that your wife no longer believes in monogamy. Even though there are Atheists who believe in monogamy and there are Theists who believe in polygamy/polyandry, it does make it very hard when one in a relationship changes his/her belief/worldview and the other one doesn't.

 

I very much hope and pray that you heal and that if you would like to marry again, I pray that you will find a wonderful lady who is like you and that both of you decide any change together and have a happy and strong and healthy marriage!!!

[BetrayedH]

It sounds like her renewed interest in religion was just a show to make you believe she wanted to change. Some people use religion to mask their real selves. Some people compartmentalize and think that as long as they go to church, what they do at other times of the week is O.K. I know a woman who went directly from our church group meeting to hook up with her married lover at a hotel whom she was cheating on her husband with. I didn't know it at the time. It amazes me how some people can be so hypocritical, and live such double lives.

 

Yeah, at the end of my wife's affair, she and the OM planned to go to confession together (their last thing together before NC). What a nice way for them to bond one last time, huh? Go figure. He ended up canceling due to work.

[Ninja'sHusband]

It shows that atheists and agnostics ( or agnostic atheists, like me)- have some of the lowest divorce rates.

 

I never have, and never will, say that atheist/agnostics are above reproach. Unless you can quite me directly and prove that I have said or implied this, I am going to go ahead and ask you to stop presenting a position I haven't stated. Thank you.

 

What I will say is that the data shows they are in the lowest percentage of people who leave their marriages, in the same group as certain religious sects.

 

Whether that is infidelity related or not- it still shows that atheists/agnostics don't divorce or see marriage as less of a commitment than other groups with religion.

 

That's the point.

 

Thanks.

 

Feels pretty ****ty doesn't it? Your behavior made it clear, that's why it took me a while to get it. I assumed better of you, unlike you to me. You attacked me for pointing out that some people(specifically my cheating ex) can take a turn for the worse when going atheist. Instead of acknowledging that some atheists might go bad, you twisted my words to apply to ALL atheists and decided that I also had said ALL theists were good. Then you continuously blasted me even when I said over and over that I don't think aetheists are an immoral group. You continuously misrepresented, twisted, removed context and stated that I was massively prejudiced because I made an observation about the person I was in a close relationship with for 18 years. Like you know better than me. Show me where I said religion guarantees morality. Show me where I said atheists have none. You can't do it. I can show you over and over where you claimed I did though. That's my whole issue with you. You found out I was somewhat religious and turned on me like an angry rattlesnake, invented a entire person and assigned it to me based on two sentences.

 

Like I said before, I know what I think, you know what you think. This whole thing started because you started making massive innacurate assumptions about my beliefs, probably because you have had bad experiences with religious people telling you are going to hell or something. I'm not one of those people. Get off your high horse and lets stop putting words in each others mouths and start combating the real problems, not ones we invent from nothing.

 

And yes your chart shows agnostic, Christians, and Jews. It lacks Hindu, Zoroastrians, Baha'is, Muslims, Buddhists, etc Wow check this out:

Major Religions Ranked by Size

 

Good luck on proving all atheists are better than religious people. I'll stick to believing we are all on equal footing and draw from whatever belief system I choose.

[Decorative]

Feels pretty ****ty doesn't it? Your behavior made it clear' date=' that's why it took me a while to get it. I assumed better of you, unlike you to me. You attacked me for pointing out that some people(specifically my cheating ex) can take a turn for the worse when going atheist. Instead of acknowledging that some atheists might go bad, you twisted my words to apply to ALL atheists and decided that I also had said ALL theists were good. Then you continuously blasted me even when I said over and over that I [i']don't[/i] think aetheists are an immoral group. You continuously misrepresented, twisted, removed context and stated that I was massively prejudiced because I made an observation about the person I was in a close relationship with for 18 years. Like you know better than me. Show me where I said religion guarantees morality. Show me where I said atheists have none. You can't do it. I can show you over and over where you claimed I did though. That's my whole issue with you. You found out I was somewhat religious and turned on me like an angry rattlesnake, invented a entire person and assigned it to me based on two sentences.

 

Like I said before, I know what I think, you know what you think. This whole thing started because you started making massive innacurate assumptions about my beliefs, probably because you have had bad experiences with religious people telling you are going to hell or something. I'm not one of those people. Get off your high horse and lets stop putting words in each others mouths and start combating the real problems, not ones we invent from nothing.

 

And yes your chart shows agnostic, Christians, and Jews. It lacks Hindu, Zoroastrians, Baha'is, Muslims, Buddhists, etc Wow check this out:

Major Religions Ranked by Size

 

Good luck on proving all atheists are better than religious people. I'll stick to believing we are all on equal footing and draw from whatever belief system I choose.

 

Again? I have *never* in my life attempted to prove atheists are better than anyone else ( I linked that chart simply to show that atheists are in line with some religious sects and do not have a high divorce rate- to answer the OP). I don't believe that, so it would be a bizarre use of my time. I have wonderful and loving religious and non-religious people in my life. I have occasionally been told I am going to hell, but not by anyone who knows me personally, although I understand that some of them follow sects that tell them I will. That's okay with me. It's their belief, not mine.

 

I'm not bitter. I'm not harmed. I was trying to point out a bigotry being displayed by your statements on atheists and lack of morality, inability to decipher right from wrong. I have never attacked you. I have never criticized your religion. I have never called you morally bereft- I have simply encouraged you to challenge your obvious prejudice against those who have chosen not to believe.

 

You should really think about what you are saying, how it is coming across, and how you are choosing to create strawman arguments and knock them down. You are stating things I never said. You keep attempting, across multiple threads, to win an argument against me that doesn't exist. It's getting a little weird, quite frankly.

 

Good luck to you. I hope you find peace and tolerance along your journey, and maybe recognize that you should not indict an entire group based on your spouse being a bad apple. I am not your enemy. Your anger at me is over the top, and assumes many things that are not true. I hope you can take a step back and see that. I wish you no ill will. I hope you truly can come to a place of understanding that.

 

( this is the basically same content as post 24 in this thread. I apologize for the repetition, but I want to make sure I am being quite clear.)

Edited December 8, 2012 by Decorative

[Ninja'sHusband]

Again? I have *never* in my life attempted to prove atheists are better than anyone else ( I linked that chart simply to show that atheists are in line with some religious sects and do not have a high divorce rate- to answer the OP). I don't believe that, so it would be a bizarre use of my time. I have wonderful and loving religious and non-religious people in my life. I have occasionally been told I am going to hell, but not by anyone who knows me personally, although I understand that some of them follow sects that tell them I will. That's okay with me. It's their belief, not mine.

 

I'm not bitter. I'm not harmed. I was trying to point out a bigotry being displayed by your statements on atheists and lack of morality, inability to decipher right from wrong. I have never attacked you. I have never criticized your religion. I have never called you morally bereft- I have simply encouraged you to challenge your obvious prejudice against those who have chosen not to believe.

 

You should really think about what you are saying, how it is coming across, and how you are choosing to create strawman arguments and knock them down. You are stating things I never said. You keep attempting, across multiple threads, to win an argument against me that doesn't exist. It's getting a little weird, quite frankly.

 

Good luck to you. I hope you find peace and tolerance along your journey, and maybe recognize that you should not indict an entire group based on your spouse being a bad apple. I am not your enemy. Your anger at me is over the top, and assumes many things that are not true. I hope you can take a step back and see that. I wish you no ill will. I hope you truly can come to a place of understanding that.

 

( this is the basically same content as post 24 in this thread. I apologize for the repetition, but I want to make sure I am being quite clear.)

 

Ditto. I could repeat this post word for word back at you with only a few changes and it would how you I feel about what you said to me. Your over the top anger when I tried to calm things down, your misrepresentations, strawmen, prejudices, etc. I don't think either of us said the other was morally bereft.

 

(lack of a SOURCE of morality. as in a book, selective sight And inability to decipher right from wrong in highly ambiguous situations Please stop misrepresenting me. You do that and I WILL correct you.)

Edited December 8, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[Ninja'sHusband]

Wow your marriage had an unresolved fundamental conflict from the very beginning. It ultimately manifested as your wife's affair, but the seeds were from the start.

 

Look, Baha'i, Christian, interfaith, that doesn't really matter, do what you want. However--the fact that the two of you couldn't even compromise on a unified wedding ceremony shows your relationship was fundamentally flawed with underlying conflict. Not necessarily theological--personal conflict. Neither of you would "give" on the issue of who should officiate the ceremony or under auspices of what faith.

 

Hmm I never saw it like that. Baha'i weddings are crazy simple in their requirements. Baha'is always add more stuff in. I figured the stuff we added in was Christian. Baha'is recognize Christianity so there's really no conflict. My wife wasn't really into Christianity very much anyway so she didn't really give a rats #$@# if we added a short Baha'i thing. It was probably weirder for my MIL.

[frozensprouts]

my husband and i are both agnostic, but to make is mother happy, we got married in an Anglican church ( i still think the minister used to be my crank phys ed teacher from junior high...she looked and sounded so much like her)

 

personally, i don't see either religion or lack there of to be a problem, rather, it's how it's used that's the problem...

 

if one feels their beliefs can be used to excuse or explain their on cr@ppy choice, then their not beliefs i think are that great....

 

if they are used to make someone a better person and to treat people well and be accountable, than they're good...

 

i'm still agnostic...there may be someone keeping things going, but if there is, i don't know what it is, and i don't think it's for me to know...

 

what i do know is that there is so much that's good and beautiful in the world, and i'd like to be someone who contributes to that

[Ninja'sHusband]

For an atheist that play is about as standard as a handoff to the fullback between the tackles.

Imagine growing up as a Baha'i.

[movingon12]

How many of you have seen this happen? What do the vows mean when one person becomes atheist? A Baha'i wedding simply entails saying "We will all verily abide by the will of God" and everything else is left up to the two people getting married. My own wedding was double duty, full Christian and Baha'i. I'm guessing many atheists still honor the vows and remain faithful.

 

In my case I feel my wife began to devalue marriage in general. Near the end she started talking about how people weren't meant to be monogamous, every marriage was messed up...I remember being confused because I thought we had a good marriage, the best on the block! =D Turns out she cheated and we are divorcing (separated since July). She told me at the very end of it all that she didn't even believe in an afterlife...and when you die that's it. She wasn't going to waste any time.

 

Thoughts, experiences? If you are an atheist, what are your thoughts on marriage? What vows did you recite? Did you use a preacher? Where did you get married?

 

I'm an atheist - I believe in marriage and I'm happily married (to a muslim). We had a civil ceremony at a registry office. No mention of gods, just 'I call upon all persons here present to witness that I, Y, take thee, X to be my lawful wedded husband'. That's it.

 

I don't believe marriage needs to have any religious element to it at all. If your wife is doubting the validity of monogamy or your marriage, it's not because she's an atheist. If that's what she's saying, she's just using it as an excuse/justification.

[Decorative]

Ditto. I could repeat this post word for word back at you with only a few changes and it would how you I feel about what you said to me. Your over the top anger when I tried to calm things down, your misrepresentations, strawmen, prejudices, etc. I don't think either of us said the other was morally bereft.

 

(lack of a SOURCE of morality. as in a book, selective sight And inability to decipher right from wrong in highly ambiguous situations Please stop misrepresenting me. You do that and I WILL correct you.)

 

I have yet to be angry in any way, shape or form.

 

I have asked you to stop. I haven't been rude. I have been calm and measured, and quoted you, not created anything or embellished a word. I have wished you peace. Hardly the picture of anger in any form.

 

I will not respond further on this subject, so please, please, do not do this anymore. It's weird.

 

Thank you.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Decorative