Religious Wedding, spouse turns atheist

[Ninja'sHusband]

How many of you have seen this happen? What do the vows mean when one person becomes atheist? A Baha'i wedding simply entails saying "We will all verily abide by the will of God" and everything else is left up to the two people getting married. My own wedding was double duty, full Christian and Baha'i. I'm guessing many atheists still honor the vows and remain faithful.

 

In my case I feel my wife began to devalue marriage in general. Near the end she started talking about how people weren't meant to be monogamous, every marriage was messed up...I remember being confused because I thought we had a good marriage, the best on the block! =D Turns out she cheated and we are divorcing (separated since July). She told me at the very end of it all that she didn't even believe in an afterlife...and when you die that's it. She wasn't going to waste any time.

 

Thoughts, experiences? If you are an atheist, what are your thoughts on marriage? What vows did you recite? Did you use a preacher? Where did you get married?

[drifter777]

I was raised catholic but now I am agnostic - leaning toward atheist. My marriage commitment was to my spouse and had nothing to do with God or family or anything else. In my opinion, losing your faith does not give a person the right to ignore their marriage vows.

[CarrieT]

I have questioned religion since I was 12 and feel I am a life-long occultist.

 

I am currently dating (and anticipate marrying) a Jew who converted to Lutheranism.

 

All that said, to me vows are given to each other and not to a supernal being. That is a whole other matter...

[Decorative]

Started atheist, still atheist. Married a Catholic, who became the wayward.

 

Our vows were to each other, and his reflected his religious upbringing.

 

Ninja- you should look at the Barna survey data. It is very interesting, regarding marriage rates, divorce rates, and religious affiliation (or lack thereof).

 

Non believers have some of the very lowest rates of divorce. Interesting, no?

[CantgetoveritNY]

 

In my case I feel my wife began to devalue marriage in general. Near the end she started talking about how people weren't meant to be monogamous, every marriage was messed up...I remember being confused because I thought we had a good marriage, the best on the block! =D Turns out she cheated and we are divorcing (separated since July). She told me at the very end of it all that she didn't even believe in an afterlife...and when you die that's it. She wasn't going to waste any time.

 

Thoughts, experiences? If you are an atheist, what are your thoughts on marriage? What vows did you recite? Did you use a preacher? Where did you get married?

 

It seems to me your wife was using lack of religion as a escape. To avoid the religious reason you held up to her as a reason to honor her vows. If you based your argument to honor her vows on something other than religion she would have found some other reason to justify her behavior. She just used your religion as a handy excuse.

[Decorative]

A quick overview, with links to the original data:

 

U.S. divorce rates: for various faith groups, age groups and geographical areas

 

Lack of faith does not translate to a higher rate of lack of commitment.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Please don't bait me further.

 

I read carefully. I understand exactly what you are saying. There was zero misinterpretation of the atheists " couldn't determine right from wrong".

 

Please stop hijacking this thread. I understand your position. Your further clarification is not necessary. We are not going to see this the same way. I wish you well, but I do not wish to discuss and hijack this further.

 

Hey, you attacked me, saying atheism couldn't be a difference that makes infidelity happen or not (which I believe is relevant to the topic). I said in my 1st response that we could agree to disagree but you continued to get super offended by something that was not directed at you.

 

I tried to be nice...I'm sorry you think all atheist are good and get so offended when one is criticized. Project your own prejudices on me.

 

And here's the real context not that you can possibly read the first sentence with your selective sight.

The prof who led it brought up confusing moral situation after confusing moral situation. There was never any resolution, most of the participants being atheists..they couldn't even begin to determine right from wrong.

Next time I'll be more careful where I put a period.

There was never any resolution, most of the participants being atheists..they couldn't even begin to determine right from wrong in those ambiguous situations.

 

You totally misunderstood and you know it.

 

I repeatedly said that these people were not immoral but you have selective hearing.

[Decorative]

Hey, you attacked me, saying atheism couldn't be a difference that makes infidelity happen or not (which I believe is relevant to the topic). I said in my 1st response that we could agree to disagree but you continued to get super offended by something that was not directed at you.

 

I tried to be nice...I'm sorry you think all atheist are good and get so offended when one is criticized. Project your own prejudices on me.

 

And here's the real context not that you can possibly read the first sentence with your selective sight.

Next time I'll be more careful where I put a period.

There was never any resolution, most of the participants being atheists..they couldn't even begin to determine right from wrong in those ambiguous situations.

 

You totally misunderstood and you know it.

 

I repeatedly said that these people were not immoral but you have selective hearing.

 

This is the wrong thread. Please stop. Thanks in advance.

[Saba]

Both my partner and I are athiests. We are not married and have no intention of getting married. We have been together long enough to be common law man and wife. Marriage does lose some significance if you are an athiest.

 

Knowing right from wrong has nothing to do with religion. My partner and I are as committed to each other as a married couple. We just decided we would not get married. Your initial post seems to imply your wife made a link between being religious and monogamy. I don't think that most athiests make that link, I know that I am both athiest and monogamous.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Saba
Added something

[todreaminblue]

Marriage vows are ordained by god .....marriages today are ending in divorce because the vows said mean nothing....when they should mean everything

 

 

i used to say i was athiest and every time i did it was because i felt that god had deserted me, certain things would happen, prayers that were screamed out silently left unanswered......begging for answers.....and giving silent apologies and asking for forgiveness later for denying that i believed in god all the way....i was just hurt.....lashing out .......and felt utterly alone in the world....thats my take on athiesm......utterly alone" to dust you shall return"

 

 

even in those dark days.......i have always believed in the sanctity of marriage now even more so...its why i am celibate till the day i die now.....i believe iif you stand up in front of god and all those who love you and that guy or woman standing opposite you who has their hopes goals dreams and aspirations their rest of their life, resting squarely on the shoulders on a life with you, you damn well better mean what you say..and always hold those vows close to your heart.

 

 

marriage is a glorious union......full of grace, sacrifice, honesty compassion and loads of passion and acceptance of the bad days mixed with many good ones....what is more beautiful than that..sorry got flowery lol passionate about marriage vows....words are special to me......deb

[2long]

I believe in God in the sense that humanity has created a supreme being to explain spiri2ality 2 such a degree that it's taken on a 'life of its own'. My W and I were married by a preacher of some sort. She was a fundamentalist Christian and I was a Christian Scientist. I became an atheist sometime around the early 80s, IIRc. She might have somewhat sooner.

 

She cheated, I've remained faithful. I consider my values 2 be pretty traditional from most peoples' perspective. But I don't believe religions have a monopoly on morality. Rather, morality is something that evolved with humans over the past several hundreds of thousands of years of our existence as "modern humans."

 

-ol' 2long

[Ninja'sHusband]

I believe in God in the sense that humanity has created a supreme being to explain spiri2ality 2 such a degree that it's taken on a 'life of its own'. My W and I were married by a preacher of some sort. She was a fundamentalist Christian and I was a Christian Scientist. I became an atheist sometime around the early 80s, IIRc. She might have somewhat sooner.

 

She cheated, I've remained faithful. I consider my values 2 be pretty traditional from most peoples' perspective. But I don't believe religions have a monopoly on morality. Rather, morality is something that evolved with humans over the past several hundreds of thousands of years of our existence as "modern humans."

 

-ol' 2long

 

This is really really really close to how I see things

 

I think a lot of typical Christians would actually consider me to be atheist if they dug deeper into what I really believe. But then a lot of atheists get offended if you give any credence or credit to what religion has taught. Can't win, there has to be strife between various camps. Personally I like to keep all of it, draw the best things from wherever you can find it. The more the better, don't filter anything out. Atheism is about exclusion so I can't really sign up for that camp. I think religion has done a lot of good things for morality over the centuries...even if zealots have also done a lot of horrible things as well. Maybe in the modern day people don't need a concept of God anymore, but I hate to throw everything out that we've learned and call it bunk. Also I like to acknowledge that a lot of things came from religion. It seems like people want it to be 100% one or the other.

[Ninja'sHusband]

This is the wrong thread. Please stop. Thanks in advance.

Lol, sorry for hijacking my own thread. I offended you again!

[Ninja'sHusband]

A quick overview, with links to the original data:

 

U.S. divorce rates: for various faith groups, age groups and geographical areas

 

Lack of faith does not translate to a higher rate of lack of commitment.

Nice data on Christians\Jews\Atheists divorces.

It doesn't prove all atheists are beyond reproach as you have implied.

 

Any group has bad eggs.

 

Would be interesting to see data on infidelity across all religions, groups.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[BetrayedH]

Agnostic is actually the term I prefer for my lack of faith. The fact is that "I don't know." I won't commit to a belief system as I see no evidence to merit such a lifetime commotment but I don't mind others believing that they have it figured out. The fact that I am in a minority is somewhat humbling but I also have never been one to follow the crowd. The crowd can be wrong.

 

I don't think that the fact that I don't have a belief in a higher power has influenced my ethics. I have never used it as a justification to do unto others before they do unto me. Acting in a good, honorable, noble way is its own reward. I act with integrity and people can count on me to keep my word. I don't need a book to outline it for me and I've never felt like an anarchist.

 

As for my wedding, I acquiessed to my wife and in-laws' unrelenting insistence upon a Catholic ceremony. I found it interesting how many pieces of paper God needed me to sign to be able to do so since I was not a member of the Catholic church. While I have always been agnostic, I met their requirements by indicating that I was "raised protestant." A bit of a lie of omission but I figured God wouldn't much care since I don't believe he exists anyway.

 

I suppose it goes without saying but, yeah, it was my religious wife that cheated for a year, had a threesome with a prostitute, lied throughout our reconciliation, and filed for divorce. But not to worry, my wife went to confession; I will be the one in hell (if you believe in that sort of thing).

[Ninja'sHusband]

Agnostic is actually the term I prefer for my lack of faith. The fact is that "I don't know." I won't commit to a belief system as I see no evidence to merit such a lifetime commotment but I don't mind others believing that they have it figured out. The fact that I am in a minority is somewhat humbling but I also have never been one to follow the crowd. The crowd can be wrong.

 

I don't think that the fact that I don't have a belief in a higher power has influenced my ethics. I have never used it as a justification to do unto others before they do unto me. Acting in a good, honorable, noble way is its own reward. I act with integrity and people can count on me to keep my word. I don't need a book to outline it for me and I've never felt like an anarchist.

 

As for my wedding, I acquiessed to my wife and in-laws' unrelenting insistence upon a Catholic ceremony. I found it interesting how many pieces of paper God needed me to sign to be able to do so since I was not a member of the Catholic church. While I have always been agnostic, I met their requirements by indicating that I was "raised protestant." A bit of a lie of omission but I figured God wouldn't much care since I don't believe he exists anyway.

 

I suppose it goes without saying but, yeah, it was my religious wife that cheated for a year, had a threesome with a prostitute, lied throughout our reconciliation, and filed for divorce. But not to worry, my wife went to confession; I will be the one in hell (if you believe in that sort of thing).

ugh, it's so sad how so many people profess one thing and do another =\

 

To me Hell is a state of being. I see "God", "Heaven", "Hell", etc all as feeble attempts to describe the spiritual world as it is naturally. If you are consumed by hate, you are in Hell. If you are consumed by love, you are in Heaven. No hocus pocus...no "supernatural" (above nature).

 

I'd say you are just fine BH. How do you feel? I think you emanate a positive spirit with what you say that people pick up on. That's what living on is, contributing to the positive energy that makes up all of us.

[BetrayedH]

I'd say you are just fine BH. How do you feel? I think you emanate a positive spirit with what you say that people pick up on. That's what living on is' date=' contributing to the positive energy that makes up all of us.[/quote']

 

How do I feel? I don't know, man. Good days and bad days. Some days I wake up in my little apartment still mystified that this is actually my life. My old one just evaporated. I recently went back on ADs. It's hard to find a new direction in life. For the most part, I would say that I am slowly but surely looking forward more often. It's just ridiculously slow going. But really, I'm fine and just trying to find new footing.

 

As for my posting, I appreciate the compliment. I'm legitimately trying to do some good with the knowledge base. Today was a bit of an abberation. Unremorseful waywards (and APs) can get me a bit feisty. But my focus isn't typically on them. I usually just want to help the people that ask for it and wish they would just get out of the way.

 

Hope your healing is going well.

[KathyM]

It seems to me that your wife abandoned her faith (if she ever really had one) because she wanted to carry on with the affair. Sometimes people throw out their faith and beliefs to serve their own temporary purposes. Or sometimes an event happens in life that causes them to question their faith and possibly abandon it. A couple I know, where the guy has been Jewish all his life abandoned his faith and became a Christian in order to marry a Christian woman who was very strong in her faith. At the first sign of trouble for him in life, he abandoned his Christian faith, started cheating and being strung out on drugs, and ended up losing his wife, who divorced him. They are now trying to reconcile because he is very repentant. I think a lot of people don't take their beliefs seriously, and they just try on various religions if it suits their purposes at the time, or to please a spouse, and they easily abandon it if it is no longer convenient for them.

 

As far as my own beliefs, I was raised and baptized in the Lutheran church, and married a man who was also Lutheran. We were married in the Lutheran church, my hometown church, by the same pastor who served during pretty much my entire childhood. I took my marriage vows very seriously. To me, those vows were made not only to my husband, but to God, in front of God and family and friends. My Christian faith teaches that marriage is for life, and only infidelity or abandonment are grounds for divorce. So I promised my husband on our wedding day that I would never leave him, will honor and be faithful to him. And I have kept that promise, to him and to God. It is a promise I made to God as well as to my husband, and I intend to honor it.

 

I'm sorry your wife took her religion and her vows so lightly.

[Steen719]

How do I feel? I don't know, man. Good days and bad days. Some days I wake up in my little apartment still mystified that this is actually my life. My old one just evaporated. I recently went back on ADs. It's hard to find a new direction in life. For the most part, I would say that I am slowly but surely looking forward more often. It's just ridiculously slow going. But really, I'm fine and just trying to find new footing.

 

As for my posting, I appreciate the compliment. I'm legitimately trying to do some good with the knowledge base. Today was a bit of an abberation. Unremorseful waywards (and APs) can get me a bit feisty. But my focus isn't typically on them. I usually just want to help the people that ask for it and wish they would just get out of the way.

 

Hope your healing is going well.

 

That feels like I wrote it - maybe that is what a lot of us feel, but the apartment and my old life evaporating is true for me as well. What in the hell happened to my house and my life that I worked for all my life? Still, I am grateful for what I do have and the fact that I have 2 jobs seems like a good thing when some don't even have one. BH, I thought you were in a new relationship and that was helping?

 

My father was one of the best people I have ever known. He did cancer research, wanted to help people and was committed to his work and his family. He was fair, treated people well and was honest. He was also agnostic. I don't think being "religious" makes people good. I think that in some cases it just makes people think they are.

[sweetjasmine]

Thoughts' date=' experiences? If you are an atheist, what are your thoughts on marriage? What vows did you recite? Did you use a preacher? Where did you get married?[/quote']

 

My H and I are both atheists (agnostic atheists, really). I've been an atheist for pretty much my whole life, and he's an ex-Catholic. For reference, my father is an atheist, and my mother is Christian in name only, and they're still going strong on their first marriage. No infidelity, as far as us kids know. H's parents were strict Catholics - his dad is on wife #3 (a very lovely, healthy relationship, I should add), and mom is in the process of divorcing husband #3.

 

Our vows were typical vows (actually, nicked from the Baptists, since we didn't really like the Catholic ones), minus God. Our officiant was a minister from a UU church, and we were married in a chapel that was previously owned by a Christian church but was sold to a private owner.

 

We both take our vows very seriously. Yes, you're only here and alive for a short period of time, but that doesn't mean that lying and cheating are suddenly acceptable and that harming others is okay as long as you feel good. We both find cheating and dishonesty to be repugnant, and it has nothing to do with religion for us. We both agree that marriage should be for life and should not be taken lightly. And since we don't believe that a higher being has intended us for each other or that there's such a thing as "soulmates," we both realize that we may come across other people who we're strongly attracted to. The difference is that we each expect the other to make the right choices, see those situations for what they are, and avoid contact and inappropriate behavior. This is our starting point, so we'll see how things go.

 

Honestly, your wife's excuse sounds like a bunch of convenient, rationalizing bullsh*%.

[Ninja'sHusband]

It seems to me that your wife abandoned her faith (if she ever really had one) because she wanted to carry on with the affair. Sometimes people throw out their faith and beliefs to serve their own temporary purposes. Or sometimes an event happens in life that causes them to question their faith and possibly abandon it. A couple I know, where the guy has been Jewish all his life abandoned his faith and became a Christian in order to marry a Christian woman who was very strong in her faith. At the first sign of trouble for him in life, he abandoned his Christian faith, started cheating and being strung out on drugs, and ended up losing his wife, who divorced him. They are now trying to reconcile because he is very repentant. I think a lot of people don't take their beliefs seriously, and they just try on various religions if it suits their purposes at the time, or to please a spouse, and they easily abandon it if it is no longer convenient for them.

 

As far as my own beliefs, I was raised and baptized in the Lutheran church, and married a man who was also Lutheran. We were married in the Lutheran church, my hometown church, by the same pastor who served during pretty much my entire childhood. I took my marriage vows very seriously. To me, those vows were made not only to my husband, but to God, in front of God and family and friends. My Christian faith teaches that marriage is for life, and only infidelity or abandonment are grounds for divorce. So I promised my husband on our wedding day that I would never leave him, will honor and be faithful to him. And I have kept that promise, to him and to God. It is a promise I made to God as well as to my husband, and I intend to honor it.

 

I'm sorry your wife took her religion and her vows so lightly.

 

You pick up well. I'm not really sure what my wife was when I married her. Probably agnostic, but steeped in her Christian family tradition. She seemed to agree with a lot of the Baha'i ideas, maybe she just wanted me to be impressed, I dunno. She was fairly keen on getting a preacher for the wedding, but maybe that was just to please her mother. Later she moved to the "don't label me" phase. She started playing with Tarot cards secretly...I guess she thought I would disapprove? Frankly I didn't care, I was prepared to spend the rest of my life with her whatever she was beliefwise. Then yeah, probably the last 5 years or so she was openly atheist. She became more and more hostile to the Baha'i faith, maybe empowered by my inactivity. I've been almost completely inactive for 15 years or so. I started having doubts about some things, like the fast, views on gays, animals and souls, lesser peace by 2000 (which was ..um...13 years ago now). So I wouldn't call myself 100% Baha'i like I used to be...more of a confused Baha'i who goes to a lot of stuff with his zealous Baha'i mother...cause she moved in after I divorced.

 

I'm blabbing. My daughter is with my ex this weekend...

 

Anyway, if you asked my ex, she'd say the cheating had nothing to do with her atheism. I'm just adding up her shifting attitudes over the years, and that statement she made about her not believing in the afterlife. How that drove her to divorce rather than spend time working things out with me.

 

Her sister was a blatant atheist before my ex was, I think that had a lot to do with things as well. Her sister seems a lot more grounded in reality though. She was the first person I told about the affair, only 1 week off from D-Day. She was completely shocked and was the first person to say that my wife should go NC with the OM.

[BetrayedH]

It seems to me that your wife abandoned her faith (if she ever really had one) because she wanted to carry on with her affair.

 

Not sure she ever really had much faith...just a lot of Italian Catholic traditions burned into her brain. She became significantly more religious after Dday (church every week rather than twice a year, tithing, etc) but it didn't stop her from lying to my face while she was professing to never lie to me again. I think NH and I both agree that the lying is what is the most damaging and her 7 months of renewed religion didn't stop her from doing it.

[Decorative]

Nice data on Christians\Jews\Atheists divorces.

It doesn't prove all atheists are beyond reproach as you have implied.

 

Any group has bad eggs.

 

Would be interesting to see data on infidelity across all religions, groups.

 

It shows that atheists and agnostics ( or agnostic atheists, like me)- have some of the lowest divorce rates.

 

I never have, and never will, say that atheist/agnostics are above reproach. Unless you can quite me directly and prove that I have said or implied this, I am going to go ahead and ask you to stop presenting a position I haven't stated. Thank you.

 

What I will say is that the data shows they are in the lowest percentage of people who leave their marriages, in the same group as certain religious sects.

 

Whether that is infidelity related or not- it still shows that atheists/agnostics don't divorce or see marriage as less of a commitment than other groups with religion.

 

That's the point.

 

Thanks.

[BetrayedH]

BH, I thought you were in a new relationship and that was helping?

 

It has helped not to be alone but sometimes I feel like I went from the frying pan into the fire. My GF is fantastic to me (which is a real switch from a wife that was impossible to please) but she is also divorced, has two kids, and there is the inherent pressure to move the relationship forward.

 

My ex and I have been separated for almost a year now (and the kids are well adjusted) so about 6 weeks or so ago my GF and I felt it was ok to get everyone together. We did about 3 platonic meetings. My kids really like hers and vice versa. Her kids also like me and my kids like her. Recently I asked my kids for their permission to date her and they were enthusiastic. Her kids proactively told her to date me.

 

That was just a few weeks back and it didn't take long for all the kids to ask about moving in together, buying a house, whether we were allowed to get married, if we would get married, and so forth. We haven't discussed marriage; we're smart enough to know we need to take our time. We can easily put them off with "it's too soon" and all that but the pressure is there and decisions need to be made. It's ok and a lot of it is incredibly positive but, it's a lot, you know? The kids would like a home and more of a family. But knowing the divorce rate for second marriages (and my own experience), it's hard not to just put the brakes on everything. We both have exes, shared custody issues, and so forth. I could use a handbook.

 

Enough about me. Apologies for the t/j. Back to those damn atheists.

[beenburned]

NH,

 

There are many sides to a story that could make stats wrong.

 

My D married 2 Christian men that were both raised in good Christian families. Both of these men cheated on her! First H left her for his OW. Second H she divorced for his 2 long term affairs.

 

Divorce is acceptable in God's eyes when the spouse committed adultery. I would assume Christians might be less tolerent of adultery simply by the fact it is such a big sin in the eyes of God.

 

Non-religious people might or might not feel it's that big of a deal.

 

I think this is one reason unrepentent OW/OM get involved with married men or women, they personally feel it is not wrong in their eyes.

 

I hope the single OW that were involved with my H grew up, got married, had kids, and finally realized just how much their actions helped destroy another person's marriage.