Dating etiquette at 40

[clia]

I don't think most men would wait more than 2 dates and still stick around.

 

Most men may not, but a man who is interested in you will definitely wait longer than 2 dates for sex. I'll take the one who is interested over the many who aren't any day of the week.

[dasein]

Very few men in the U.S. will judge a woman for having a normal sex life today. If you run into one of those, you are likely incompatible as a matter of religious or other moral belief. However, there is a rational basis for judgment of people sleeping with strangers impulsively, as it signals poor judgment and likely impulsivity in other areas, spending, substance and alcohol, risk taking, etc.

 

Few men have this option available. Men generally don't expect that they will have sex as an option on first dates. As a matter of fact, a vast majority of men have no idea which of their sexual advances will result in sex. Only know that if we aren't frequently trying proactively, we will never have sex as an option.

 

Women are completely different in seeking and obtaining sex, and partially due to the dynamic in the above paragraph, are in a position of accepting or turning down sexual advances often. Any person who accepts every or most sexual options coming down the path with strangers has a greater chance of doing so impulsively.

 

The big questions are "why would someone who has many opportunities to have sex, and is seeking a relationship, choose to do so with strangers as opposed to getting to know prospective relationship partners before hopping in bed? Are they impulsive in other ways? Do they have the self-control necessary to be a good relationship partner?" It is a reasonable red flag, applies to a vast majority of women, and a tiny minority of men.

[edgygirl]

Excellent point. I think you got to the most fundamental thing.

 

Most men my age won't really judge the act per se I guess.

 

I am guilty of being impulsive in many areas of my life. I should think about it and how it translates as a potential long-term partner to someone I am interested. I like daring people but I myself don't want a man who can't control himself when needed (in life, in general).

 

On the other hand, why wouldn't it be a red flag TO ME that he wants to have sex in the first or second date? See? Double standards for men vs. women always, right?

 

Very few men in the U.S. will judge a woman for having a normal sex life today. If you run into one of those, you are likely incompatible as a matter of religious or other moral belief. However, there is a rational basis for judgment of people sleeping with strangers impulsively, as it signals poor judgment and likely impulsivity in other areas, spending, substance and alcohol, risk taking, etc.

 

Few men have this option available. Men generally don't expect that they will have sex as an option on first dates. As a matter of fact, a vast majority of men have no idea which of their sexual advances will result in sex. Only know that if we aren't frequently trying proactively, we will never have sex as an option.

 

Women are completely different in seeking and obtaining sex, and partially due to the dynamic in the above paragraph, are in a position of accepting or turning down sexual advances often. Any person who accepts every or most sexual options coming down the path with strangers has a greater chance of doing so impulsively.

 

The big questions are "why would someone who has many opportunities to have sex, and is seeking a relationship, choose to do so with strangers as opposed to getting to know prospective relationship partners before hopping in bed? Are they impulsive in other ways? Do they have the self-control necessary to be a good relationship partner?" It is a reasonable red flag, applies to a vast majority of women, and a tiny minority of men.

[DC4]

Very few men in the U.S. will judge a woman for having a normal sex life today. If you run into one of those, you are likely incompatible as a matter of religious or other moral belief. However, there is a rational basis for judgment of people sleeping with strangers impulsively, as it signals poor judgment and likely impulsivity in other areas, spending, substance and alcohol, risk taking, etc.

 

Few men have this option available. Men generally don't expect that they will have sex as an option on first dates. As a matter of fact, a vast majority of men have no idea which of their sexual advances will result in sex. Only know that if we aren't frequently trying proactively, we will never have sex as an option.

 

Women are completely different in seeking and obtaining sex, and partially due to the dynamic in the above paragraph, are in a position of accepting or turning down sexual advances often. Any person who accepts every or most sexual options coming down the path with strangers has a greater chance of doing so impulsively.

 

The big questions are "why would someone who has many opportunities to have sex, and is seeking a relationship, choose to do so with strangers as opposed to getting to know prospective relationship partners before hopping in bed? Are they impulsive in other ways? Do they have the self-control necessary to be a good relationship partner?" It is a reasonable red flag, applies to a vast majority of women, and a tiny minority of men.

 

I dunno, I'm not totally buying that. I have never bought into "men do this/women do that" on most things.

[edgygirl]

Hey I've done similar things in the past but that's not my typical behavior these days at all. And I am talking about the way I act today.

 

I am not Serbian, lol. I do look like Eastern European ladies as my family is originally from there, but I come from a tropical country where sex and love are taken more easy going than here. I understand i.e. why this girl you mentioned was upfront into showing she was into it in a bar although she was looking for marriage. It makes sense in my country and no men there would really think she was a whore... I understand why that's not the case here.

 

But hey as I said, these days I tried to do it with a couple of guys I developed an intense relationship online, text, email and through phone first. It's not like I met them in a bar... I was quite smitten by the last guy already when it got to the sex point. Silly me I guess.

 

Op, are you Serbian? I met this beautiful woman who I could have had sex the first night I met her...in a bar. But she told me she was looking for marriage and a serious relationship. We talked and this bombshell of a woman liked history and was smart:love: but she always put out the first night of meeting someone for even less than 30 mins. Yet, she wanted to meet her husband at a bar. I was utterly confused. When she told me she was looking for marriage and I was leaving the next day, I chose not to have sex with her. Even though she was obviously stressing to me that she wanted to have sex with her body language and her touching getting very daring in a public place. I figured that this poor woman was being taken advantage by nearly every man she gave a chance to, she told me she was picky. But yet, sex was almost on a regular basis when she went out.

 

I figured that this woman was going to be taken advantage cause most guys at bars only go there for sex. So I with held cause I won't take advantage of someone, had it happen to me didn't like it so I won't do the same.

 

Quit giving out so early it shouldn't be that difficult. All what I am saying is that if you can not sleep before the fifth date at least 10 hrs of knowing the person face-to-face. Then you have a shot of getting to not be used sexually.

[mesmerized]

Excellent point. I think you got to the most fundamental thing.

 

Most men my age won't really judge the act per se I guess.

 

I am guilty of being impulsive in many areas of my life. I should think about it and how it translates as a potential long-term partner to someone I am interested. I like daring people but I myself don't want a man who can't control himself when needed (in life, in general).

 

On the other hand, why wouldn't it be a red flag TO ME that he wants to have sex in the first or second date? See? Double standards for men vs. women always, right?

 

It's only impulsive if you sleep with anyone who wants to sleep with you. I don't know any woman who does that. Most women sleep with a tiny percentage of men they can get. If you sleep with a man you're not attracted to right away, now thats a red flag. But finding attraction for sex for women is not easy so it balances out. I understand waiting a bit but I think waiting two months for sex for two people with healthy sex drives who are really attracted to each other is retarded. But whatever floats peoples boats I guess.

[edgygirl]

lol same here. two months is an eternity in my mind as I consider my sex drive healthy (except for the part where I can't control myself when I am really interested and if I do control myself the relationship doesn't work either).

 

Of course I don't sleep with every man who tries it... That was my whole point. I only sleep with people I am really, really interested in and see potential for LTR and marriage.

 

It's only impulsive if you sleep with anyone who wants to sleep with you. I don't know any woman who does that. Most women sleep with a tiny percentage of men they can get. If you sleep with a man you're not attracted to right away, now thats a red flag. But finding attraction for sex for women is not easy so it balances out. I understand waiting a bit but I think waiting two months for sex for two people with healthy sex drives who are really attracted to each other is retarded. But whatever floats peoples boats I guess.

[FitChick]

You can date some men just for sex which might allow you to have more self control with another man you consider relationship potential. Men do this.

 

You can look for men who are from the same country you are, i.e. if you were British, you could go to UK themed pubs where homesick Brits go, and shop at expat shops.

 

Join a dating website for sexually kinky people. Many people want serious relationships with others who have the same kink.

 

Sex on the first date isn't a problem for a lot of men who just view it as recreation and not a barometer for a woman's morality. They don't like game playing so they would probably be more understanding. If they liked you, it would be irrelevant.

 

Most people over 40 don't view sex as magical, the way younger people do.

[Sunfire73]

Agreed with everyone who said to wait to put out if you're looking for a relationship. I'm 39, dated a few, once where I slept with a guy on our 4th date. But I didn't expect anything after that. I did feel closer to him and asked for exclusivity. We became exclusive for 8 months before it ended due to incompatibility. It was okay since I knew going in that it may not last.

 

The next guys I dated, I have not slept with them. I felt actually good, because you focus on getting to know each other and see if there's a connection. Sex clouds your judgment which hinders you to see red flags. I easily saw the red flags without sex, and ended it with the other 2 guys.

 

Right now, I'm dating a guy who has a long term potential. We're on our 2nd month, haven't slept together yet. While I know that he's into me, so I never felt the need to sleep with him this early. I love sex too, but getting to know a person and connecting is more important to me. Sex would come when the time is right, and will be especially great if we have that established mutual connection.

[edgygirl]

Yes I totally agree with you. I am both in a kinky website and a free dating website. I can get sex every night if I want it with quite cute guys. (and I've done it so many times in the past... I've been okay with that type of thing in different periods in my life - when I didn't feel like being relationships, or post breakup, or whatever)

 

BUT

 

I've been disgusted by meaningless sex lately. I am so craving a real deep relationship. It almost hurts.

 

But you are right I think I might just have to do that so I don't get too horny while meeting someone I feel a lot of potential with. Ugh. I tried to avoid it but it might just be the thing to hinder potential real relationships.

 

Why the hell does it have to be like that? Why can't a girl do it and not have the guy less interested? Ugh...! Men are so stupid sometimes. Don't mean to offend anyone but sometimes I feel like women are higher in the evolution scale in this matter, haha.

 

You can date some men just for sex which might allow you to have more self control with another man you consider relationship potential. Men do this.

 

You can look for men who are from the same country you are, i.e. if you were British, you could go to UK themed pubs where homesick Brits go, and shop at expat shops.

 

Join a dating website for sexually kinky people. Many people want serious relationships with others who have the same kink.

 

Sex on the first date isn't a problem for a lot of men who just view it as recreation and not a barometer for a woman's morality. They don't like game playing so they would probably be more understanding. If they liked you, it would be irrelevant.

 

Most people over 40 don't view sex as magical, the way younger people do.

[Later82012]

You can date some men just for sex which might allow you to have more self control with another man you consider relationship potential.

What makes you think he will offer you a relationship when you are available to others for less and he obviously is worth more at least because of your interest in him?

[dasein]

I dunno, I'm not totally buying that. I have never bought into "men do this/women do that" on most things.

 

Is there a multimillion dollar industry that seeks to teach men how to approach and seduce women? Is there a similar multimillion dollar industry that seeks to teach women how to approach and seduce men? If men and women do the same things, why isn't there a PUA industry for women?

 

Do women do most of the initial approaching of men? or do men do most of the approaching of women?

 

How many women can sit at home in bed, go through their phones or the phonebook, and find any number of men she finds sexually desirable who will come and have sex with her without her moving an inch? How many men can do this?

 

Start "buying into" the fact that men and women experience seeking and obtaining sex in completely different ways generally, because it's true, and completely invalidates the sacred cow "double standard" so many women here and elsewhere cling to when they want to justify their own impulsive promiscuity. Women and men are apples and oranges with respect to the availability of impulsive promiscuity. Very few men can even be impulsively promiscuous. Almost all women can.

[dasein]

You can date some men just for sex which might allow you to have more self control with another man you consider relationship potential. Men do this.

 

I don't know -any- men who do that. A tiny % of men who have that option available to them may do this, and in that kind of duplicity, acting one way with one group of people and another way with another group, they are just as bad, selfish, immature and bad bets for a legitimate relationship as any women who choose to behave this way.

[edgygirl]

What does this even mean?

 

Women and men are apples and oranges with respect to the availability of impulsive promiscuity. Very few men can even be impulsively promiscuous. Almost all women can.

[edgygirl]

Come on... guys get laid all the time like that. Men even more than women can't stay long without having sex. I do not know that they do it for not getting too tempted with someone they are super interested in like we would do, but still, men and women wants sex just as much but men feel the visceral need to do it often more than women do. Might be biological (sperm stuck in there, etc haha)

 

I don't know -any- men who do that. A tiny % of men who have that option available to them may do this, and in that kind of duplicity, acting one way with one group of people and another way with another group, they are just as bad, selfish, immature and bad bets for a legitimate relationship as any women who choose to behave this way.

[dasein]

Don't mean to offend anyone but sometimes I feel like women are higher in the evolution scale in this matter, haha.

 

I see, so men holding women accountable for what equates to sexual gluttony in their impulsivity, and judge impulsive women negatively as relationship prospects are somehow less evolved?

 

Sounds pretty smart and evolved to me actually, and my friends who unwisely married impulsive women the first time around and had their lives ruined as a result would back me up on this.

[dasein]

Come on... guys get laid all the time like that.

 

Just another way of stating that women don't even see the bottom 80% of men, they are sexually invisible to women. No idea what things were like in your past more permissive culture where you lived previously, where average men had sex as available as average women, but that's not the case here in the U.S. and imagine it wasn't the case there either.

 

men and women wants sex just as much but men feel the visceral need to do it often more than women do. Might be biological (sperm stuck in there, etc haha)

 

Thinking about sex and having it available are two different things. Surely you realize this, and since you do, the above equates to "let them eat cake."

[edgygirl]

I am pro sexual gluttony in both sides - men and women. In my view, having sex too soon doesn't make me want a man less. That's my point. It does make men want the woman less. This is less evolved in my opinion. In what sense? Probably evolutionary / maturity level.

 

Re: the impulsiveness part I do agree with you. Impulsive as I was in my youth, I would make a man miserable if I had married at age 20. Good thing I felt I was not prepared for that and avoided it until now that I know I am less impulsive and more mature.

 

I see, so men holding women accountable for what equates to sexual gluttony in their impulsivity, and judge impulsive women negatively as relationship prospects are somehow less evolved?

 

Sounds pretty smart and evolved to me actually, and my friends who unwisely married impulsive women the first time around and had their lives ruined as a result would back me up on this.

[mesmerized]

Is there a multimillion dollar industry that seeks to teach men how to approach and seduce women? Is there a similar multimillion dollar industry that seeks to teach women how to approach and seduce men? If men and women do the same things, why isn't there a PUA industry for women?

 

Do women do most of the initial approaching of men? or do men do most of the approaching of women?

 

How many women can sit at home in bed, go through their phones or the phonebook, and find any number of men she finds sexually desirable who will come and have sex with her without her moving an inch? How many men can do this?

 

Start "buying into" the fact that men and women experience seeking and obtaining sex in completely different ways generally, because it's true, and completely invalidates the sacred cow "double standard" so many women here and elsewhere cling to when they want to justify their own impulsive promiscuity. Women and men are apples and oranges with respect to the availability of impulsive promiscuity. Very few men can even be impulsively promiscuous. Almost all women can.

 

Most women aren't "Impulsively promiscuous". Get out of here with that crap. Look at gay men and how they use their freedom of sleeping with as many men as they can. Most women aren't doing it and they sleep with men they are highly attracted to. Your woman hating crap comes from insecurity and jealousy. You hate for women to have any power that you as an average guy don't have. So you make sure to attach streotypes to it, classic method. we both know its true.

[FitChick]

The older you get the more you will realize there are no rules for sex. Unless you are the Taliban.

[dasein]

Most women aren't "Impulsively promiscuous".

 

No one said they were. What I actually did say was that few men judge women in the U.S. for having a normal sex life with previous partners. Spare your typical vitriol and insults until you actually read and understand what I have posted.

 

A man goes on many first, second, third dates. Comes on to all the women on all or most of the dates, in accordance with his desire. None of them may even respond sexually, but the man knows if he doesn't try, he will -never- have sex. A woman goes on similar dates. Has no such uncertainty. She knows that she has a reasonable chance of sex on every early date if she wants it. This dynamic is entirely different for men and women. So why would a woman agree to accept the sexual advances of strangers when she states she wants a relationship? Why have sex with strange men when she knows she has the prerogative men don't generally have of waiting until the men in question aren't strangers? Impulsivity is the most common explanation, and impulisivity is a bad trait in a relationship partner.

 

Look at gay men and how they use their freedom of sleeping with as many men as they can.

 

Irrelevant to a discussion of heterosexual cultural mores and offensively stereotypical to boot.

 

Your woman hating crap comes from insecurity and jealousy. You hate for women to have any power that you as an average guy don't have. So you make sure to attach streotypes to it, classic method. we both know its true.

 

Fair warning. Nothing I have posted here is "woman hating crap," merely identifying a sacred cow double standard many women cling to is false. Claiming as such, doesn't come from jealousy, more from amusement at how blindly and resolutely women cling to a double standard that doesn't exist in rationalizing the impulsive behavior of some women. Finally, you, not I have made stereotypes in this thread.

[dasein]

I am pro sexual gluttony in both sides - men and women.

 

OK, but sexual gluttony, whether it's a man or woman indulging in it, is a red flag, just as gluttony in any area is. I don't want to have a relationship with a woman who drinks every day, eats pizza and ice cream at every meal, spends lots of money unwisely, drives fast all the time, or has sex with lots of strangers. Gluttony is gluttony and have not met anyone who doesn't show gluttony in one area but not others.

 

Re: the impulsiveness part I do agree with you. Impulsive as I was in my youth, I would make a man miserable if I had married at age 20. Good thing I felt I was not prepared for that and avoided it until now that I know I am less impulsive and more mature.

 

Thanks. Glad we agree on this. Thing is though, a man dating a woman doesn't know what stage of life she is in, whether she is still the impulsive girl or the mature woman. If a man sat down and drank two bottles of wine on the first date, you wouldn't know whether he just loves wine or was alcoholic, but you might reasonably judge him as risky due to his behavior. Same with women who have sex on first dates in the U.S. This is why your therapist tells you not to. There's a very pragmatic reason also. Sex tends to magnify our feelings. When we do it too early, we may overlook flaws and incompatibility in a partner making them a bad bet for us. Best to save sex until we know we are on the same page with prospective partners, and it's impossible to know this from a couple of dates.

[mesmerized]

No one said they were. What I actually did say was that few men judge women in the U.S. for having a normal sex life with previous partners. Spare your typical vitriol and insults until you actually read and understand what I have posted.

 

A man goes on many first, second, third dates. Comes on to all the women on all or most of the dates, in accordance with his desire. None of them may even respond sexually, but the man knows if he doesn't try, he will -never- have sex. A woman goes on similar dates. Has no such uncertainty. She knows that she has a reasonable chance of sex on every early date if she wants it. This dynamic is entirely different for men and women. So why would a woman agree to accept the sexual advances of strangers when she states she wants a relationship? Why have sex with strange men when she knows she has the prerogative men don't generally have of waiting until the men in question aren't strangers? Impulsivity is the most common explanation, and impulisivity is a bad trait in a relationship partner.

 

So what if the woman only wants sex and knows the deal? What if a woman is horny but cannot find any guy who wants a relationship (which is extremely common these days)? Does she still have to wait months to have sex or just not have sex cause insecure people like you said so? What if a woman has a chance to sleep with a really really attractive guy that she does not meet often? In all these cases you would advise a man to just go for it and "live life" but advise a woman to suppress her very natural desires. Then men wonder why women are crazy, because society wants to limit their every move and there is this constant fight between their natural instincts and what society tells them to do.

 

Irrelevant to a discussion of heterosexual cultural mores and offensively stereotypical to boot.

It's not irrevalent in the slightest. The way gay men behave sexually for the most part shows how straight men would behave in case women were accepting like men. Almost ALL men would be "impulsively promiscuous". Are you really disagreeing with me on this one? Or are you saying impulsive is ok for men but not women?

 

Sorry but men like you make me laugh. You complain that women want to have their traditional powers and also the modern equality whereas you are exactly the same. It doesn't take much intelligence to see your obvious hypocrisy and agenda.

 

Fair warning. Nothing I have posted here is "woman hating crap," merely identifying a sacred cow double standard many women cling to is false. Claiming as such, doesn't come from jealousy, more from amusement at how blindly and resolutely women cling to a double standard that doesn't exist in rationalizing the impulsive behavior of some women. Finally, you, not I have made stereotypes in this thread.

It DOES come from jealousy and being terrified of having less power. You demonstrated this in many posts of yours about different things, you even think men should have a say in abortion. Again, power dynamics is what scares you. You're not alone in this and it's common a human trait, but the fact that you don't acknowledge it make you sound not so bright.

[DC4]

Is there a multimillion dollar industry that seeks to teach men how to approach and seduce women? Is there a similar multimillion dollar industry that seeks to teach women how to approach and seduce men? If men and women do the same things, why isn't there a PUA industry for women?

 

Do women do most of the initial approaching of men? or do men do most of the approaching of women?

 

How many women can sit at home in bed, go through their phones or the phonebook, and find any number of men she finds sexually desirable who will come and have sex with her without her moving an inch? How many men can do this?

 

Start "buying into" the fact that men and women experience seeking and obtaining sex in completely different ways generally, because it's true, and completely invalidates the sacred cow "double standard" so many women here and elsewhere cling to when they want to justify their own impulsive promiscuity. Women and men are apples and oranges with respect to the availability of impulsive promiscuity. Very few men can even be impulsively promiscuous. Almost all women can.

 

That's a lot of words for "men do this/women do that" which still isn't true regardless of how much you stomp around about it.

[mesmerized]

Just curious, what countries are you girls from where men are not insecure hypocrites? I bet the men are amazing lovers too!