Newbie...

[butterflybutterfly]

Hi...I'm not really sure what I'm looking for her, just somebody to listen and maybe give me some advice? I've got no one else to talk to.

 

I've been seeing my boy for a few months. He's not married, but has been with his girlfriend for 2 or 3 years. He says she really loves him, and he claims to love her (of course, which is why he's cheating on her with me?!). I'm early 20s, he's early 30s, and he's the first person I've really been with. I never would have dreamed of getting into this kind of scenario, but I don't feel guilty about it, which is awful, I know. In the beginning he wanted to see me all the time, he even told me he was falling in love with me (yes, I'm an idiot for thinking that was anything other than just words). He was the one initiating everything, I genuinely thought we were just friends pretty much right until we first hooked up. But lately he'll go for days without contact, ignoring my messages, and it's been weeks since we've even seen each other. He says he's got a lot on but I know that if he truly wanted to see me he could have found some time. I'm understanding when he has to break off a meeting with me, but he's almost annoyed and spiteful on the very rare occasion (it's probably only been once) that I can't meet him at short notice.

 

He says we have something emotional between us, and I really believed that, I definitely have very strong feelings for him - but now I think I'm starting to see the reality. I'm younger, naive, inexperienced and malleable, I'm more exciting than his girlfriend, he enjoys spending time with me, I boost his ego, I'd do anything for him, and I give him the goods when his girlfriend isn't around - that's all it is, isn't it? He doesn't seem like one of those people who can fake feelings, which is why I believe him when he says he feels something meaningful for me - but clearly he is capable of faking, seeing as he's a cheater. He confuses my emotions so much - he gets jealous of my male friends and hates the thought of me being with anyone else, but he doesn't want to be with me properly. He's pretty much said that if his girlfriend dumps him in the next few months, he'd consider being with me, so he's effectively saying I'm a consolation prize.

 

I know nobody can tell me what to do, but I'm stuck...part of me wants to let it tail off (I have a feeling if I'm not pro-active, getting in touch, asking him to meet up, he's not going to bother to do it himself) and fade out - but I know that I won't be satisfied with that. I'm one of those people who obsesses about things if they don't get closure. Part of me thinks I should just straight-up finish it with him - but I don't have the guts, and I feel like I may as well have the rare occasional moment with him rather than nothing at all. I'm single so it's not like our affair is stopping me from being with anyone else, if I met anyone that a relationship developed with I would finish with him. But it's hurting so much to go for so long without seeing him and to have my feelings so confused. When we're together it's utterly amazing, I can't imagine ever having this kind of chemistry with someone else, and when he's actually being attentive he's lovely to me - but the rest of the time, I end up feeling totally worthless and unwanted. I really do care about him so much, I want to make him happy and be there for him all the time. It's not just a sexual thing, he's hugely important to me, I care about him and worry about him so much.

 

Any perspectives from people who've been in this situation would be much appreciated. And please no insults - I know I shouldn't be with a man who has a girlfriend, I know it's wrong, but I've ended up in this situation and it's not as black and white as I would have liked to think an affair would be. Thanks.

[whichwayisup]

He says we have something emotional between us, and I really believed that, I definitely have very strong feelings for him - but now I think I'm starting to see the reality. I'm younger, naive, inexperienced and malleable, I'm more exciting than his girlfriend, he enjoys spending time with me, I boost his ego, I'd do anything for him, and I give him the goods when his girlfriend isn't around - that's all it is, isn't it?

 

To you, it's becoming real and a relationship. You're falling for him more and more as time goes on, hoping for more...

 

The thing is, it's an affair to him. He will only put in a certain amount of effort and time, when he feels like it. I'm sure he does have feelings for you but in the context of keeping it all IN an affair dynamic.

 

Notice he said, "if my gf dumps me"..Well, why doesn't he dump her?

He isn't going to because he has two women to meet all his needs. He's happy enough as things are.

 

I hope you gain the strength to walk away. You deserve better! Don't continue being his side dish.

[veryhappy]

You shouldn't be in a R where you feel worthless and unwanted. He's your first R, and be proud of yourself for seeing this clearly and not being blinded by your emotions.

 

He doesn't want you. He ignores you, yet wants you available at his whims, he has a girlfriend that he won't leave for you. Read baggagereclaim.co.uk and you'll realize what you have to do for yourself is cut him off of your life completely. He's no good for you, and he's only using you.

[Mrs.Dee]

What this guy is saying is : " 2 is better than 1"

[butterflybutterfly]

Thanks whichwayisup, cutedragon, Alice2012, and Mrs.Dee. You all make a lot of sense, I know. It's simple: right now he has it all. He has a girlfriend who's safe, dependable, who loves him and looks after him. He has a bit on the side who spices his life up and treats him as if he's a god and barely asks for anything in return. He's not going to put any effort in when he doesn't have to. This is why I'm angry with myself, I'm just spineless. I let him pick me up when he wants me and cast me aside when he doesn't, because I feel so grateful to have anything from him at all. I think part of it is that HE makes me feel like I should be grateful to have him.

 

We almost ended when I got really upset over him cancelling a long-awaited meeting with me because she wanted to see him (I was especially hurt because he gave me far too much information, he basically told me he could no longer see me that night because she was coming over for sex. It made me feel sick that I had literally been heading over to his house and instead of being with me, after having told me how much he had missed me and was desperate to see me, he was getting into bed with her). He was quite angry that I got so emotional and seemed to be threatening to finish with me, so I practically begged him not to, apologising for my emotions, which I shouldn't have done. That's the thing, he makes me feel that if I ask for too much from him, or if I get upset when he treats me badly, that he'll end it with me. He knows full well that I'm crazy about him and really emotionally invested, so he knows that he holds all the cards.

 

Sorry for the rambling. I guess it helps to get it out so I can try to see it more clearly.

[veryhappy]

He's a certified POS.

 

I am usually against the OW telling the BS, but I will advise you to tell his gf. It will stop everything, and that woman should know who he is if she's hoping to marry him, before she does.

 

Look up that website I mentioned. It will help.

[butterflybutterfly]

cutedragon and Lady Grey, thankyou so much for your replies. I've had a look at baggagereclaim, something that stood out was along the lines of if he made you happy or was good for you, you wouldn't be here reading this.

 

I know I've got a lot of issues (it's good that I recognise that at least, right?!)...I'm depressive, I have low self-esteem and I always think everything is my fault. So I go over and above to try to make it up to people even if I've done nothing wrong. I guess because nobody ever makes me feel worthy, I feel incredibly lucky to even have someone appear to care about me, so then I cling on to that and can't let go.

 

cutedragon, may I ask why you would advise telling his girlfriend when you wouldn't normally? I'm almost worried that I'm unfairly painting him out as a terrible terrible person, I know that he's pretty much a failure at not being a cheating scumbag but in many ways I think he has got a good heart - or is that just me being a complete idiot?

[alexandria35]

This guy had a very twisted idea of what love is. He will likely never really love anyone but himself. This relationship has destroyed your self respect and esteem. How crazy is it that you apologized to him for getting upset because he was ditching you so he could have sex with his gf? Do you see how sick and disturbing that is? You will do what you want to do but I can promise you that this guy is never going to bring you anything but pain and drama. I think you know that so if you decide to keep this thing going then don't blame anyone but yourself for the pain you are going to have. You have a choice. I hope you make the right one.

[butterflybutterfly]

alexandria35, I know, in fact I suppose it's part of the reason that I don't complain to him about his behaviour (in addition to not wanting him to end it with me) - I know I don't have a right to complain, because if I don't like the situation, I should get out of it. If I stay in this situation that's obviously not healthy long-term, I'm choosing to be miserable. It's just hard when I'm so crazy about him. I'm a coward I know. I like to think the good times make up for the hurt but the good times are becoming few and far between.

[butterflybutterfly]

Plus, I'm confused that he seems to think this will go on for quite some time (he talks about getting more time to spend together next year). It annoys me a little that he thinks being his second-best will be enough for me for months and months (but I guess I've shown that's true) and it also seems to go against the feeling he gives me that if I get too complicated or involved he'll end it. But at the same time it almost makes me feel safe that he'll still want me in a few months' time. He gets possessive and protective over me, and hates the thought of another man touching me, which at first seemed like the jealousy of someone who cares, but now I guess it's just male pride. He says I'd make a great girlfriend and he'd never cheat if we were together (says the man currently cheating on his girlfriend with me) yet doesn't want to leave his girlfriend. He'll act like he cares when I'm down, and be sad when I'm upset about something. He seems interested in my life (almost too much sometimes, he'll social network-stalk me and then weird me out a little by saying something that I've never told him but he must have found out another way). I know I'm just rambling, but it's stuff I've never talked to anyone about before, so it helps to be getting it out, especially when there's people with an outside (and much more sensible perspective) who can help me see things more sensibly.

[frozensprouts]

if he loves you and cares about you, he won't hurt you like this.

 

I know it hurts to think of it this way, but it's the truth. He sees in you a sweet and very vulnerable person who he can use... don't be that person...

 

I know it's easier for me to say it than it is for yu to do it, but you need to end it with him now...don't wait, or before you know it you'll be even more emotionally entangled with him and it will be 1000 times harder to stop, even though it hurts...

[Summer Breeze]

Plus, I'm confused that he seems to think this will go on for quite some time (he talks about getting more time to spend together next year). It annoys me a little that he thinks being his second-best will be enough for me for months and months (but I guess I've shown that's true) and it also seems to go against the feeling he gives me that if I get too complicated or involved he'll end it. But at the same time it almost makes me feel safe that he'll still want me in a few months' time. He gets possessive and protective over me, and hates the thought of another man touching me, which at first seemed like the jealousy of someone who cares, but now I guess it's just male pride. He says I'd make a great girlfriend and he'd never cheat if we were together (says the man currently cheating on his girlfriend with me) yet doesn't want to leave his girlfriend. He'll act like he cares when I'm down, and be sad when I'm upset about something. He seems interested in my life (almost too much sometimes, he'll social network-stalk me and then weird me out a little by saying something that I've never told him but he must have found out another way). I know I'm just rambling, but it's stuff I've never talked to anyone about before, so it helps to be getting it out, especially when there's people with an outside (and much more sensible perspective) who can help me see things more sensibly.

 

You're allowing him to make you second best. He's not doing it, you're allowing it. You can stop it. Don't let him take your power.

 

Ramble away. We all do at times. Tighten up your facebook page and block him on Twitter. He's only stalking you because he can.

 

You're right to be looking for sensible and different perspective. Please listen to the people here. Save yourself from any more of this and get out while you're feeling strong enough to question what's going on.

[butterflybutterfly]

frozensprouts, thanks. People always tell me that I'm too nice (I'm aware I'm not exactly being nice to his girlfriend) and just asking to have people take advantage of me being overly sensitive and caring, and I can honestly see a lot of my problems stem from that, I get attached to people too soon and would do anything for them, but I just don't know how to change that part of my personality.

 

Summer Breeze, you're right, I allow myself to be second best and I don't demand any respect from him. Once I asked him if he thought less of me for being with him when he had a girlfriend, and he said no, because he shouldn't have pursued me in the first place. He was a bit of a dick in the beginning by pursuing me when he had a girlfriend, but I could have said no, and since that point on I'm the one who's put up with it and been a doormat. The problem is I find it difficult to feel that I deserve any respect, so it's like a vicious circle.

[Summer Breeze]

frozensprouts, thanks. People always tell me that I'm too nice (I'm aware I'm not exactly being nice to his girlfriend) and just asking to have people take advantage of me being overly sensitive and caring, and I can honestly see a lot of my problems stem from that, I get attached to people too soon and would do anything for them, but I just don't know how to change that part of my personality.

 

Summer Breeze, you're right, I allow myself to be second best and I don't demand any respect from him. Once I asked him if he thought less of me for being with him when he had a girlfriend, and he said no, because he shouldn't have pursued me in the first place. He was a bit of a dick in the beginning by pursuing me when he had a girlfriend, but I could have said no, and since that point on I'm the one who's put up with it and been a doormat. The problem is I find it difficult to feel that I deserve any respect, so it's like a vicious circle.

 

Of course you deserve it. I hope you can get out of it now but if you can't then stand your ground in some ways. Don't be available to him. Make plans and fill up your time and let him be second best in your eyes. If he asks if you want to see him tell him yes and you'd like to go to dinner and a movie. If he can't/won't oblige find a friend who will and go. Don't let him hide you. Don't let this be easy on him. Hopefully you'll fill your life with good things and he'll naturally be left behind. Maybe you'll see how little you really need him. Take back your power.

[butterflybutterfly]

Yeah, he doesn't like the not being available thing! He texted at short notice for me to come over, after I've been begging him for weeks to find some time for me. I'm not into games, I wear my heart on my sleeve and seeing as getting time together is so difficult I normally put it above everything else, but part of me thought, let him think that I have got a social life and I can't be there in a flash (the main reason was I wasn't in the mood and I didn't feel like braving the weather!) But he was peed off, and I knew I really wanted to see him, so I texted again saying I could switch things round and come see him, to which he, evidently annoyed, replied that he had made plans after I said I couldn't see him. Backfired or what? Made me feel like such an idiot. It's what prompted ne to finally register on here, actually. And instead of being happy that I've got a busy week comin up to keep my mind occupied and do things I enjoy, I'm really upset that it'll be yet another week that I can't see him. I hate that he's so important to me when I'm clearly not to him.

[butterflybutterfly]

Lady Grey: I know. You're right. I just don't know how to do it in a way I can deal with. Every time I think about ending it, or really having it out with him and letting him dump me, I think about how tenderly he looks at me and how lovingly he holds me and how passionately he says he wants me. And I know that's pathetic. And I know I can't allow that to be what governs my judgement because then I'm consigning myself to this hurt forever. But it makes it hard to walk away. Writing it down makes me look such a fool, I know.

[Summer Breeze]

Yeah, he doesn't like the not being available thing! He texted at short notice for me to come over, after I've been begging him for weeks to find some time for me. I'm not into games, I wear my heart on my sleeve and seeing as getting time together is so difficult I normally put it above everything else, but part of me thought, let him think that I have got a social life and I can't be there in a flash (the main reason was I wasn't in the mood and I didn't feel like braving the weather!) But he was peed off, and I knew I really wanted to see him, so I texted again saying I could switch things round and come see him, to which he, evidently annoyed, replied that he had made plans after I said I couldn't see him. Backfired or what? Made me feel like such an idiot. It's what prompted ne to finally register on here, actually. And instead of being happy that I've got a busy week comin up to keep my mind occupied and do things I enjoy, I'm really upset that it'll be yet another week that I can't see him. I hate that he's so important to me when I'm clearly not to him.

 

He had a tantrum like a 3 year old all because you dared to have a life. You shouldn't have felt like an idiot. You should have said great, I'd better get ready to go out then. You may not play games but honey he is playing them with you.

[butterflybutterfly]

You guys speak sense. I hate having these feelings!

 

I'm guessing you guys think it would be a big mistake to talk to him? He's promised me some time together at the end of the month, and if that ever happens, I was thinking of really talking to him about how I feel and properly asking him about everything that's been on my mind. It's hard for me to let go of things and I feel like I need to talk it out before it ends, but is he just likely to tell me what he thinks I want to hear? Maybe he'd be honest with me because he'd realise I've become too attached and he wouldn't want to carry on with an over-attached mistress, so he'd have no reason to lie to keep me. But maybe he'd just be all sweetness and light so he can carry on having his cake and eating it. I know people will say just finish it without having a big emotional talk but I know I'll end up getting in touch again because I'll feel I haven't said my piece and heard what he has to say, and that wouldn't be helpful to getting over him. I'm not gonna lie, I do feel like I want to spend some time together again before it ends...even if it's meant nothing to him (I'd like to think it has meant something), it's been a huge part of my life and I guess I want to have a proper goodbye.

 

It's weird, I didn't think this would end until I met someone, I couldn't really see the point in finishing with him before that, but I know it has to end at some point, all things considered this could never be a real prospect, and the longer I leave it the worse it'll be. The selfish part of me wants to wait until I meet someone else so it's easier to get over him, but I guess I run the risk of confusing my feelings for him with feelings for anyone else.

[RickFox]

Damn girl,

 

You know the answers here and yet you keep denying what you need to do. You need to cut this dude off where he stands. Stop answering his texts, stop running to him when he calls, stop stop stop it all! You think you'll stop seeing him when you find someone else, but the fact is, you won't look for anyone else, you'll deny anyone who comes along on the off chance this guy will choose you. And then you'll be back to square one wondering why you're only getting sloppy seconds.

 

Bottom line is this (and excuse me for being so blunt) but if you don't mind being a piece of convenient A** then by all means, keep on truckin', but if you feel that you are more than that, that you deserve someone who doesn't call you when they need variety and only cares about their own needs, then cut him off at the knees, walk away and don't turn back. Easier said than done, but the first step is the one that turns into a thousand more.

[butterflybutterfly]

RickFox, feel free to be blunt, you're saying exactly what I'd be saying if it was a friend of mine in this situation.

 

He himself has even said to me that I deserve someone who I can be with properly - but even that messes with my head! He'll say he feels bad he can't give me the time and attention I deserve, that he wishes he could spend more time with me, and then that makes me think that I do matter to him, and because of that I'm all like, 'Ok, as long as I know you want to see me, I understand if you're busy' and all that nonsense.

 

But yeah. I am just a convenient piece of ass for him, he knows I'm crazy about him and I'll be grateful for whatever crumbs he throws me. I can't expect decent treatment when I've proven to him that he doesn't have to do anything and he'll still get what he wants. It's just hard knowing that demanding respect will mean totally losing him. A man who doesn't want you on the basis that you want to be treated with respect is obviously not a man worth loving, it's just proving difficult for my head to drill that into my heart.

 

Thankyou all for your responses. I guess he can say what he likes and be as loving as he wants when we're alone together, but it doesn't matter that he acts as if he feels something for me during those snatched hours of intimacy if the way he acts the rest of the time tells me I'm dispensable and not a priority. I can't help feeling that the way he is when we're alone is the 'real' him and the crap he gives me is just because of the constraints of our situation, but if he felt like he professes to feel about me, he wouldn't treat me this way the rest of the time. I know I need to end it. I'm just going to be a wreck and hate having the responsibility for it being over with someone I really want, because whenever I've had feelings for someone they've always been the one to tell me it's not going to happen. Thanks guys for listening to me moan for so long, I know now what needs to be done. It's just going to take a major kick up the backside for me to force myself to finally man up (woman up?) and do it.

 

xx

[whichwayisup]

Lady Grey: I know. You're right. I just don't know how to do it in a way I can deal with. Every time I think about ending it, or really having it out with him and letting him dump me, I think about how tenderly he looks at me and how lovingly he holds me and how passionately he says he wants me. And I know that's pathetic. And I know I can't allow that to be what governs my judgement because then I'm consigning myself to this hurt forever. But it makes it hard to walk away. Writing it down makes me look such a fool, I know.

 

See, this is all emotional and based on empty promises, false hopes and false pretenses..

 

The reality is, it's an affair to him and he will spend time with you when he feels like it, on his time frame. He isn't going to leave and divorce his wife to be with you.

 

You want more and you'll never get anything that you truly desire from him. NO holidays, bdays, a life shared together, an honest and out in the open relationship that you can be proud of.

 

Once you take a step back and detach a bit, I do believe you'll see things from a fresher perspective, more objective view that can help you see that the longer you stay in the affair, the more pain and heartache you'll have.

[whichwayisup]

I guess he can say what he likes and be as loving as he wants when we're alone together, but it doesn't matter that he acts as if he feels something for me during those snatched hours of intimacy if the way he acts the rest of the time tells me I'm dispensable and not a priority. I can't help feeling that the way he is when we're alone is the 'real' him and the crap he gives me is just because of the constraints of our situation, but if he felt like he professes to feel about me, he wouldn't treat me this way the rest of the time. I know I need to end it. I'm just going to be a wreck and hate having the responsibility for it being over with someone I really want, because whenever I've had feelings for someone they've always been the one to tell me it's not going to happen. Thanks guys for listening to me moan for so long, I know now what needs to be done. It's just going to take a major kick up the backside for me to force myself to finally man up (woman up?) and do it.

 

This is your affair dynamic. He's basically offering you what it is, how it's going to be if you stay the OW in his life. You know him ONLY in the affair dynamic, and that's how he wants it to be. If you want him in your life, take it for what it is. Settle to be second fiddle and be OK with it. Don't put him first, enjoy the time you do spend with him and spend time with your friends, family and put YOU first, instead of him. I"m sure there were/are times that he called and you cancelled plans to be with him . ?? If yes, stop doing that! Just because he calls and wants to see you, doesn't mean you always have to be available to him!

 

I do hope you gain the strength to end it. You deserve so much better.

[seren]

But yeah. I am just a convenient piece of ass for him, he knows I'm crazy about him and I'll be grateful for whatever crumbs he throws me. I can't expect decent treatment when I've proven to him that he doesn't have to do anything and he'll still get what he wants. It's just hard knowing that demanding respect will mean totally losing him. A man who doesn't want you on the basis that you want to be treated with respect is obviously not a man worth loving, it's just proving difficult for my head to drill that into my heart.

 

If for this reason only, and for feeling that you are 'just a convinient piece of ass' leave and find someone who will never, ever make you believe this is all you mean and what you feel about yourself. No one, not anyone, should feel this way about them. This is not what love is all about, not for yourself or from another. You should not have to demand respect from someone, it should be given, freely. I hope you begin to see that any relationship that makes you feel less than is not good, not good at all. x

[frozensprouts]

it sounds like he is very gifted when it comes to choosing the right words, but pretty lacking when it comes to the action behind them...

 

may i ask you a personal question....

 

what parts of yourself are you giving up to be with this guy? it sounds like you are a nice person who doesn't want to hurt anyone...your ethics tell you that's wrong, yet you are willing to ignore your ethics and go along with this relationship even though it's not good for you and it's hurting someone else. how does that make you feel? is it worth feeling that way to be with this guy? are you proud of your relationship with him ?

 

i know it probably sounds trite, but you're young and thee are so many guys out there who will treat you well, make you happy, and who will build you up instead of destroy you...this guy isn't one of them

[waterwoman]

This is so sad. Why do you deserve this treatment?