MrCastle Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 I mean dude it's like saying my chances of winning the lottery are 50/50 because I'll either win or I won't. It's like saying my chances of getting into Harvard Medical are 50/50 because they'll either accept or reject me. I think that's what people are getting at. It's kind of making you look silly. Fair enough but I'm talking about outcomes. Outside of yes and no, what other ones are there? And if a girl isn't feeling you, she isn't feeling you. There is no grey in that area. She likes you or she doesn't. Now there is a lot more going against you in a CA than for you, hence why it's so unpopular/unsuccessful, but even so, every approach is a new 50/50. I was saying that in reference to this idea that you get better with every approach. You don't. You don't improve the odds. Every individual girl will either like you for you or she won't. Confidence doesn't cover up for lack of physical attraction, so you can be as confident and experienced as you can be, if she doesn't like your face, it's a no. It's not like somewhere down the line you swing the odds to 60/40 or 70/30. Every girl is different and every girl is a yes or no.
Author Nightsky Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 Fair enough but I'm talking about outcomes. Outside of yes and no, what other ones are there? And if a girl isn't feeling you, she isn't feeling you. There is no grey in that area. She likes you or she doesn't. Now there is a lot more going against you in a CA than for you, hence why it's so unpopular/unsuccessful, but even so, every approach is a new 50/50. I was saying that in reference to this idea that you get better with every approach. You don't. You don't improve the odds. Every individual girl will either like you for you or she won't. Confidence doesn't cover up for lack of physical attraction, so you can be as confident and experienced as you can be, if she doesn't like your face, it's a no. It's not like somewhere down the line you swing the odds to 60/40 or 70/30. Every girl is different and every girl is a yes or no. Well possible outcomes and odds are two different things. So yes the more girls you talk to the more likelyhood you have of a particular outcome say getting a date. It's like talk to 10 girls have a 10% chance of finding a date... talk to 100 and have a higher percentage of getting a date. Also like I said you build social skill by talking to people. Makes sense right?
MrCastle Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 Well possible outcomes and odds are two different things. So yes the more girls you talk to the more likelyhood you have of a particular outcome say getting a date. It's like talk to 10 girls have a 10% chance of finding a date... talk to 100 and have a high percentage of getting a date. Also like I said you build social skill by talking to people. Makes sense right? But that's what I'm saying, the number resets everytime. Look at the guy on the pua site who's approached 145 girls with 0 dates so far. By approach 15 he was already feeling it, his nerves were gone, he knew what he wanted to say, how to say it, etc. If his chances increased, by the time he hit 20, 25 approaches, he would be getting more yes votes and less no votes. He hasn't. He hasn't had any improvement, actually. Because your success or failures don't carry with you to the next approach. So if a girl says no, that doesn't mean your odds of the next girl saying yes improves, it's always a yes/no and so far for him, it's been all no, with the exception of a few numbers that he said never lead to anything.
Author Nightsky Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 But that's what I'm saying, the number resets everytime. Look at the guy on the pua site who's approached 145 girls with 0 dates so far. By approach 15 he was already feeling it, his nerves were gone, he knew what he wanted to say, how to say it, etc. If his chances increased, by the time he hit 20, 25 approaches, he would be getting more yes votes and less no votes. He hasn't. He hasn't had any improvement, actually. Because your success or failures don't carry with you to the next approach. So if a girl says no, that doesn't mean your odds of the next girl saying yes improves, it's always a yes/no and so far for him, it's been all no, with the exception of a few numbers that he said never lead to anything. Well it's not a numbers game. You can only make out the numbers in hind sight and I wouldn't recommend keeping track.
MrCastle Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 Well it's not a numbers game. You can only make out the numbers in hind sight and I wouldn't recommend keeping track. I thought it was a numbers game? Wasn't that what everyone on here was saying? The more you approach the better you do? Isn't that what most people who cold approach hang their hat on? Anyway, we're losing sight of the overall point I've been trying to make all along, cold approaches are a rare success and for a man who's looking to be successful, he should probably go the route that has been proven to form more relationships than any other outlet--social circles. If he wants to make an approach here and there on a girl he really can't see himself walking away from, have at it, but don't go out and "sarge", don't go out and approach in bulk numbers because the success rate is very low and there is a possibility the man will lose more confidence than he could stand to gain.
Author Nightsky Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 I thought it was a numbers game? Wasn't that what everyone on here was saying? The more you approach the better you do? Isn't that what most people who cold approach hang their hat on? Anyway, we're losing sight of the overall point I've been trying to make all along, cold approaches are a rare success and for a man who's looking to be successful, he should probably go the route that has been proven to form more relationships than any other outlet--social circles. If he wants to make an approach here and there on a girl he really can't see himself walking away from, have at it, but don't go out and "sarge", don't go out and approach in bulk numbers because the success rate is very low and there is a possibility the man will lose more confidence than he could stand to gain. Well it's not a numbers game in the sense that you have to determine percentages and potential outcomes and track how many girls you've talked with. Obviously the idea is not to pass up opportunities and to cast a wider net. Lots of fish in the sea so don't worry about rejection type thing. I don't think the success is that rare. Even if it is rare you don't lose anything by trying and you gain social skills. I think guarding your ego from rejection is the wrong direction to be headed if you're a guy who does bad with women.
MrCastle Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 Well it's not a numbers game in the sense that you have to determine percentages and potential outcomes and track how many girls you've talked with. Obviously the idea is not to pass up opportunities and to cast a wider net. Lots of fish in the sea so don't worry about rejection type thing. I don't think the success is that rare. Even if it is rare you don't lose anything by trying and you gain social skills. [/Quote] Yeah I can get on board with that, but I felt like your OP was a pep talk to the unsuccessful men out there about how to go about their business, and if so: I think guarding your ego from rejection is the wrong direction to be headed if you're a guy who does bad with women. This is where our disagreement lies. Positive reinforcement beats out negative reinforcement every time. People want to be rewarded, not punished. Enough rejections and for some people it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You can't have confidence in the dating world if no one is giving you reason to feel confident. People that are unsuccessful are better off doing what's proven to work the most. You can't take a guy who is failing, throw him to the sharks and expect him to come out of it more confident. It can grow to more resentment of women and a more bitter outlook on life overall. That's why I said for people who are successful, it's different. We've already been there, done that, and we know we can get other women from other outlets. But those men who are just starting out, cold approaching is just not the way to go. Just isn't.
movingon12 Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 It definitely works, and it can work well, but I think it works well for certain types of guys, rather than all guys. Based on the extensive sample of 4 men I know who subsequently married girls they approached cold: - all of them have very large social networks (though didn't help in the initial pick up as the women didn't know their friends) because... - all of them are very socially confident, they are all the kinds of guys who can, and do, strike up a conversation with the person standing next to them in the queue at the supermarket - all of them seem to be just interested in other people in general (not women specifically): men, women, old, young, difference races, religions whatever - they are just 'people people' - none of them are 'player' types (or not as I would define it), none are smooth talking, good at flirting etc, they just like meeting people and making friends As a result, I think when these kinds of guys start talking to a woman (wherever that might be), they come across as genuinely interested in what she has to say, rather than just a guy trying to pick her up. So when the 'date' question comes up, she's much more likely to agree (assuming she finds them attractive) So, I guess if you're the kind of guy who would happily start a conversation with they guy sitting next to you at the bar, then you may be quite good at cold approaches. But if you wouldn't have the nerve - or enjoy - chatting to a complete (male) stranger, then cold approaches may be less successful. 1
irc333 Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 It takes a certain level of confidence and social skills (flirting, "swagger", etc.) to make cold approaches a viable option. If a person doesn't possess those skills, they're setting themselves up for a series of hard rejections. I don't put down the cold-approach, it's just women aren't really receptive to strangers. Maybe it's my location. I dunno. This one nice looking gal, looked to be in her mid 30's, was a cashier at a Tractor Supply Store.....I was getting some outdoor gear and I started off, "Just getting my boots hear to go hiking , you much of an outdoors girl?" And she shrugs her shoulder and says, "I guess so. Maybe" Then I asked her about if she's rady for the holidays She kinda of chuckles and goes, "Nah, not at all." and then I ask her, "So you do you gift shopping for the family yet?" and she goes, "Nah, still not done with that" Then I asked her if she had a big family (from her ton, she made it sound like the CHristmas season was a bit of a chore or something, lol) Anyhow, she didn't seem that receptive, I usually get short or cold responses from women in public. I haven't done many cold approaches during the holidays, but I might be bold to do so. But most women....at least where live, arent' receptive to being approached by people they don't know MOST around my age bracket are married or in a "live-in" relationship with a man for years AND obviously would not be receptive to a man flirting with them since they are spoken for.
jcrew11 Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 My confidence doesn't increase when I inevitably get rejected doing a cold approach so I'm not exactly sure how cold approaches increase confidence, now I still do cold approaches I just do not expect to get anything out of it at all. The key to improving Cold Approaches is to learn from your mistakes and change things up. Try bringing a puppy with you and take it for a walk. Girls will be running up to you (or to the dog). Try wearing a suit. Try changing the places you are going to more friendly areas. Also, Cold Approaches can result in a "maybe" which is a good thing because she can always bump into at a later time, or introduce you to her cute friend. Social circles may be about dating where you work and live. But what if you literally work at the "mall" or live "on a busy street" - just by talking to girls near your work or near your house, will expand your "social circle" in the neighborhood. Women will know you're that cool friendly guy that is really popular that everyone likes. Work on creating "friendships" first with the women.
Taramere Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure how many different ways I can keep saying the same thing. I'm not saying you shouldn't be open to the idea of cold approaching but the people that go out with the specific intent of talking to 50 women a day in an attempt to get a few numbers is lame to me. The automatic thought, when a total stranger approaches you, tends to be "what are they after from me?" It might be sex, money, charity collecting, survey filling in, an attempt to ease loneliness, mental illness, selling God to save their own souls or whatever....but whatever the reason it comes down to one thing. They're approaching for reasons that are in their interests rather than yours, but in some cases they're going to present it in terms of "this is in your interests. A fabulous opportunity is coming your way today, if you'll just give me a few seconds of your time!" You might laugh if a stranger approaches you in a way that's quite outlandish and you're in the mood to hear their performance, but I would have thought most women would find it quite difficult to get any genuine sense of connection or warmth from playing audience to a whacky stranger's performance. I know that guys who are fans of the cold approach will say that it doesn't need to be whacky at all, but I think that unless there's an obvious and plausible reason (related to some external factor) to strike up conversation with a stranger, or the man's an actor of Oscar winning quality, most cold approaches are going to come across as a bit too zany, in a forced kind of way. I agree with you that these cold "salesmanlike" approaches would be disastrous for very shy men if the emphasis is on trying to pick up women. Just making a stronger effort to be generally sociable in situations where it's normal for strangers to talk to eachother would be a better plan for shy men. The more sociable they're being the more likely they might find that they get some feeling of genuine connection with one of the people they speak to instead of firing indiscriminately in the hope of hitting a target at some point. Edited December 7, 2012 by Taramere
Author Nightsky Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 The automatic thought, when a total stranger approaches you, tends to be "what are they after from me?" That should be the automatic thought. You're thinking about this from the wrong perspective my dear. You have to put your penis hat on and pretend you're a horny man here. Now I've been approached by pretty girls who are total strangers and even I think "here we go again" and low and behold she starts talking about some church I've never heard of or a survey or some other annoying thing... Oh yeah and I have been asked out a few times by hot chicks... thats really rare though. You have to do it yourself. Be aggressive not worry about the logical thought that might go through a womans head of "what's this person want from me." You might laugh if a stranger approaches you in a way that's quite outlandish and you're in the mood to hear their performance' date=' but I would have thought most women would find it quite difficult to get any genuine sense of connection or warmth from playing audience to a whacky stranger's performance. [/quote'] Where did I say approach in an outlandish way? Is it some how assumed I'm telling people to show up in a spacesuit or a tricycle babbling about the having traveled back in time from the future to become their own father. In fact I'm telling people to be themselves. So if they're not smooth go over and stutter your way through a "he.. he.. helllo.. h...h..how are you doing to.to DAY!?" I agree with you that these cold "salesmanlike" approaches would be disastrous for very shy men if the emphasis is on trying to pick up women. The emphasis needs to be on getting women. I don't think they should care, as in beat themselves up if it doesn't go that way. Also I think they should understand that being fun as in having fun is the best way to get a woman. Unless of course fun isn't your thing lol. Just making a stronger effort to be generally sociable in situations where it's normal for strangers to talk to eachother would be a better plan for shy men. The more sociable they're being the more likely they might find that they get some feeling of genuine connection with one of the people they speak to instead of firing indiscriminately in the hope of hitting a target at some point. This is about making a stronger effort in a very general social not specific way. As opposed to making it only a specific, I know her in some approved fashion therefor it is ok for me to socialize. So yes this is about being more sociable in general and building up likely hood in all areas. You're on my side Taramere!
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