TheCollector Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Ok I know ill probably get burned alive for still trying to reconcile with my wife after all you guys know from my other thread but I so desperately want to make it work and get better. When the affair was going on she was literally like a different person in every aspect of her personality. I know this is fairly common due to "affair fog" but now that its been over a year later she acts and says she is very sorry and remorseful. She still is saying he forced himself on her for the actual sex but she owns the EA completely. In just the past few weeks her and I have made great progress. And have been talking calmly and extremely openly. More than we EVER have. BUT She can't remember several HUGE details from that time frame. It's like her mind blocked them out. She says that she's sorry and that she doesn't know why she can't remember doing some of these things and I'm like "how the hell couldn't you remember that?!?" She said its like it happened to someone else and that its like she was watching it happen to someone else but it was her.These details make it impossible for me to believe she said no to the actual act and I've told her that. These details are as follows and are post d-day but shortly after. 1. She told me he was big downstairs.(not something you say about someone that forced themselves on you). 2. We drove by a skate park that they had hung out with a few friends at and she started crying saying that she missed him.(also not what you'd say about someone who did that to you) 3.she told me that she wasn't sure who or what she wanted.(why would she want him if he did that to her?) 4. She had him back over to my house while I was at work over $80 effing dollars. Then when I called her on break and discovered that he was at my house I told her to get him the F__k out of my house she said they were just talking about everything. (why would she bring him back like a week later) she said if your gonna act like this then I can just go with him! (again WTF?) 5. She wanted to do an experiment....she has always hated porn and said it was the same as cheating. She made me go to a porn site and wanted me to watch it to see if it hurt her still and when I did she started cryi and said that she should be bothered by it but she simply wasn't... She claims she can't remember any of these events accept him coming to the house and she doesn't remember telling me that... So is she freaking crazy or what??? We have made so much progress lately but what about all this???
carhill Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 If she truly had an EA she remembers everything, in great detail. The memories are burned into the tape by her emotions. IMO, all of the bulleted points indicate fundamental lack of respect and/or care for you and your M. Some people have few or no filters. Your wife appears to be amongst them. As a MW told me recently, 'I (meaning she) have no boundaries'. Yep, from her actions, I would agree. My sympathies. 1
worldgonewrong Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Your wife is a nut - self-absorbed and manipulative as can be. Nothing in what you've laid out above indicates that she cares about you, much less love you. A wife is supposed to be your best friend; ask yourself if this is how a best friend is supposed to treat you. There's your answer.
Bryanp Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 It is called damage control. She is not insane but quite smart. She does all of this to you and still has you begging to reconcile with her. Clearly she knows how to manipulate the situation and you as well. If anyone is insane I would argue it is not your wife but you. Good luck anyway because you will need it. 1
TigerCub Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 So is she freaking crazy or what??? Yeah...She's not freaking crazy - you are for staying with her and wanting to make it work despite everything you just listed. The hamster on your wheel might be drunk or has a peg leg, but he's goin and the wheels are churning and deep down you know that all this doesn't add up, and that her story is full of lies - a part of you knows this, but you're still at it, trying to pretend that you don't see and trying to make like she's the crazy one. She's not crazy, she's a heartless bitch - yeah.... You're crazy for still sticking around and taking all that crap. 2
Author TheCollector Posted December 5, 2012 Author Posted December 5, 2012 This is how she acted THEN... But she got pregnant and I had to know if the baby was mine and so what choice did I have but to stay? At least till the baby was born. Otherwise I would have had no rights.... So then we had the pregnancy to....somewhat distract us plus a major flood and remodeling... And I honestly feel like I'm just now coming out of shock and I'm ready to start dealing with things... She has been totally different and changing a lot to show me she cares and wants us to work. I've been honest with her that I don't believe her story and that I'm not sure what I want to do. We go for our first marriage counseling next Thursday. And I have been in counseling for 5 sessions now and I told her she has to go to IC also to figure out what happened in her brain and why she cheated and why she...."can't remember". I told her this must happen to save our marriage. I'm not crazy I just don't want to miss out on the critical bonding time with my now 5month old daughter. 1
Owl Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Have you considered insisting that she take a polygraph? It could be that she's chosen to "block out" a lot of these events, or it could be that she's just doing the trickle truth to try to prevent you from leaving her. The bottom line is that you'll have to decide how far you want to pursue this, and what you'll do if she continues to "not remember". 1
Ninja'sHusband Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Please don't attack a man who is going through probably most painful event of his life and is desperately trying to hold his family together. I have dramatically different views of relationships with children involved...I believe Collector will do EVERYTHING in his power to save his family before he throws his towel in. It might be that sudden divorce motions would be the most effective thing..but I don't blame anyone for not going there first when there are children involved. For me I would never have been able to live without myself if I hadn't exhausted all options/limits before divorce. I wasn't the only guy who had that view. It's just a sad thing when a woman cheats like this...so hard to recover. Honestly I don't predict good things for this marriage but Collector has to do what he feels is right, as we all do. 4
BetrayedH Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 She has consentual sex with the OM six ways from Sunday and loved it. She is doing damage control and you are being managed. You know she is lying. If you want to reconcile with a "remorseful" cheating wife that is still lying to your face, it's up to you. 2
Owl Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Please don't attack a man who is going through probably most painful event of his life and is desperately trying to hold his family together. I have dramatically different views of relationships with children involved...I believe Collector will do EVERYTHING in his power to save his family before he throws his towel in. It might be that sudden divorce motions would be the most effective thing..but I don't blame anyone for not going there first when there are children involved. For me I would never have been able to live without myself if I hadn't exhausted all options/limits before divorce. I wasn't the only guy who had that view. It's just a sad thing when a woman cheats like this...so hard to recover. Honestly I don't predict good things for this marriage but Collector has to do what he feels is right' date=' as we all do.[/quote'] Who was attacking him?????
Ninja'sHusband Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Who was attacking him????? If anyone is insane I would argue it is not your wife but you. You're crazy for still sticking around and taking all that crap. He's not crazy. He meant his vows and he cares for his child. That is not crazy. It shows he is a respectable, responsible, loving, self sacrificing human being. 3
BetrayedH Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) Please don't attack a man who is going through probably most painful event of his life and is desperately trying to hold his family together. I have dramatically different views of relationships with children involved...I believe Collector will do EVERYTHING in his power to save his family before he throws his towel in. It might be that sudden divorce motions would be the most effective thing..but I don't blame anyone for not going there first when there are children involved. For me I would never have been able to live without myself if I hadn't exhausted all options/limits before divorce. I wasn't the only guy who had that view. It's just a sad thing when a woman cheats like this...so hard to recover. Honestly I don't predict good things for this marriage but Collector has to do what he feels is right' date=' as we all do.[/quote'] I don't disagree with this. I, too, am in favor of making a diligent effort to reconcile. If the OP still needs more truth to make his decision, I think he needs to engage in another conversation with the OM about the alleged rape (I would bet he has proof that she was fine with him after the sex) or do a polygraph or both. He obviously wants to ensure that he is making the right decision. So be it; find out the truth. But believing her nonsense for a minute is just, well, nonsense. Edited December 5, 2012 by BetrayedH 2
Ninja'sHusband Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 I didn't speak to Collector's actual question, sorry for that. I'll go point by point on some of the "crazy" things you brought up, giving my take. I know you want to understand this. It's important. If you look up "signs of cheating"..you'll find a common one is when they say "I don't remember". I showed my wife directions to a hotel that were in her truck...she didn't remember what that was about...until I learned the truth from Facebook conversations. It's really sad but people revert to that childish lie even in adulthood I guess. Cheaters have so much fear, especially women cheaters. My wife thought I would literally kill her when she revealed her partial truth..instead we made love (reluctantly on my part =\) Just now I was reading about how risk of violence in marriages goes up a lot when women cheat. What I wish they could understand is that what really makes people nuts are the LIES. When my wife was truthful about what happened, things were relatively peaceful. When I caught her in repeated huge lies...the **** HIT THE FAN! Same with other cases on this forum. Cheaters don't get how harmful it is when they are around the AP... I've related this a couple times already but I think it's worth repeating. I had a conversation with Steve Harley (Willard Harley's son). He wanted to ask this question with my wife on the line...but we couldn't get her to participate: Would you rather your wife had a nice quiet lunch (nothing else) with 1) OM 2) The man who raped your daughter? At first I had to have him repeat it, then I choked. "That's a HARD QUESTION!" He told me that pretty much every BS answers with #2 or can't answer. He also said that WS without fail are always shocked at that answer. They think the lunch is harmless. As for the porn...I actually don't have a strong opinion on this...but I don't feel like it's the same thing as cheating. My wife used to encourage me to watch stuff...but I KNOW she was jealous of other real women. In college she used to talk about (jokingly) hurting other women who had interest in me. I always thought it was odd because I just assumed all guys were interested in her...it was when\if she showed any interest\flirty behavior back that I got upset. Anyway I ramble. I think she is naive to assume that watching you watch porn is equivalent of her finding out you cheated...she's just trying to rationalize making you wrong. Ans as for being forced...it sounds like more minimization, like the others have said. I also seriously doubt it was just once. My wife gave me the same damn story...only 1 time. She also got pregnant. I was rightfully suspicious. I told her several times, "The ONLY reason I found out about this was because you got pregnant...". She looks at me, and then to the floor, "yes"... Then I find the hotel thing..."I don't remember". 3 months of counseling and searching for "why" and I find a Facebook conv making it clear it was WAY more than once. Getting pregnant from just once is ridiculous I think. The main difference between your case and mine is that my wife miscarried a week after I learned she was pregnant. She is afraid, very afraid. Cheaters lie and they do it well. Also my wife engaged in other "crazy" behaviors that I felt were classic signs of a midlife crisis. I dunno if your wife fits that though. She seems 1) very afraid 2) chemically addicted and confused...in a heavy fog. So there's my take. Crazy? haha yeah, but there's always some way to make sense of things. I think people need to bring order to a chaotic situation just to have piece of mind. I hope you find yours and an explanation that makes sense to you. I find it incredibly important to have. 1
road Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 This is how she acted THEN... But she got pregnant and I had to know if the baby was mine and so what choice did I have but to stay? Who's the bio dad?
road Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 You want the truth then have WW take a polygraph test. Without the poly you will never know which I don't remembers are real or lies.
Author TheCollector Posted December 5, 2012 Author Posted December 5, 2012 Thanks ninja. I don't believe this nonsense story and sadly I believe what betrayedH says is true. But like ninja said I can't just throw in the towel without being sure...my child and my life are on the line here. I will do whatever's best for her first, but I do understand that staying together for the kids is never the best choice... I'm no fool.... I'm just focused on making a informed decision as opposed to a rash one. My wife has just recently given me all her passwords and I told her that that information would have been tremendously comforting and useful on d-day but meant little to me now....since her mom and 2 kids live with us now and my wife doesn't drive she has no way to cheat now...(i know I know get the MIL out! Trust me that is underway). I finally told her about me going to counseling and that scares her to death! But she knows I'm gonna go wether she likes it or not. I am insisting on MC and her to go to IC to figure out her problems. But overall in the past 3-4 weeks she has realised how close I am to leaving and has made drastic changes. It may be too little too late but I'm not sure. I also told her about having a conversation with her OM and that I had his side of the story band obviously she asked "well what did he say?" And "he's a liar"....I told her nothing of what was said by him. So do you guys think I need to have another conversation with the OM? What else should I ask him? If you have not read my conversation with him its on the last page of my thread "why has it taken a year to realize the extent of my injuries?" Should I ask him sexual specifics? Of the 2 times he claims (probably more like 4 or 5)
Author TheCollector Posted December 5, 2012 Author Posted December 5, 2012 Who's the bio dad? Almost positive she is mine. Has pointed elf ears like me, innie nips like me and a lot of my facial features that I'm not "just wanting to see". And yes I have suggested a polygraph and she refuses. Her argument is they are not totally accurate especially under extreme stress. I know she's afraid of those results.
Ninja'sHusband Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Just warning that OMs do lie too though they have less reason to. The OM in my situation at first tried to stick with my WW's story..but crumbled and gave me what I believe to be truth after I discovered that so revealing facebook conversation. It helped that I didn't attack him (which you did at the end of your conversation). I doubt he would talk to me again since I have now told his wife and shared what he said to me ^^ I'm glad you aren't buying her story. (reasoning in my last post) You've probably gotten lots of snooping advice, but ...online phone records, facebook message logs, searching her car, and talking to OM and OMW were my big truth finders.
2sunny Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Everyone needs to read your prior thread! You have been a COMPLETE doormat for your W - her Mom - all the other folks in her family she has you supporting too. She wasn't raped - you know that! Have her take a polygraph now! Get a paternity test NOW! You have your head so far in the sand you think there's sunshine in there! Your W LIES to keep you paying the way for her entire family! She uses you worse than anyone I've seen post here! Have some self respect and divorce her!
2sunny Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 She's always been insane - you are just used to it! She needs to get her license and get a job! Same with her Mom! None of what you have described in your previous threads is even remotely within adequate/normal range! Your wife still acts like the druggie she used to be...childish and selfish at YOUR expense! But you can only blame yourself because you've ALLOWED all of it!
TigerCub Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 He's not crazy. He meant his vows and he cares for his child. That is not crazy. It shows he is a respectable' date=' responsible, loving, self sacrificing human being.[/quote'] haha, I see you quoted what I said. To be fair, I didn't know there was a kid involved - he failed to mention that in the OP, he just talked about all the rest... So yeah, from what I knew then, he was the crazy one to stick around.
Author TheCollector Posted December 6, 2012 Author Posted December 6, 2012 I apologize for not disclosing my whole story on this thread but it would just be repeating my old thread. "why has it taken a year to realize the extent of my enjuries?" It's a few pages back now. I can't argue with pretty much most of what sunny says. But I am making progress on most of these situations... The only thing I think many of you are totally misunderstanding is her being a drug user. She is not and never was a drug user. Never tried anything but alcohol and she doesn't drink. I have been in counseling and I'm getting to where I need to be wether my wife likes it or not cause I AM NOT OK and I know it. She can accept it and my new way of treating her or she can hit the door!
aed Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 @ Collector When are you going to start making demands on how you want her to treat you? It's only about you making your wife happy. Also did you take a parental test, because sometimes you see resemblances you want to see?
Steen719 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Collector, Really, this is so sad. Even if you manage to stay with your W and you accept what she says, don't get paternity testing, don't do polygraph and generally just suck it up, the questions you have will be left over and some day, they will find their way back to the surface. She should be feeling real regret and remorse, not fear and you should be feeling anger, not fear. It is a mess and to accept what she says is just hard to fathom. Good luck to you. 2
Oberfeldwebel Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 I am not usually a big proponent of the Polygraph, because folks want it to answer all there questions and it can't. It was never designed for that situation. However, in a limited scope, it is 98% accurate and even higher in your case. The question of whether they had sex is not a debate, but it will tell you if it was rape. This is an important question, because if it is true, your wife needs to be receiving counselling this issue for her own health. Like you, I have doubts as to the validity of her story, but the Poly would put that to rest. A DNA test will answer that question hands down. As for her concerns with the Poly, is not really well founded. In the 2% category, it will more often show inconclusive than an actual false reading. This is 1% or less, depending on who's figures you read. The examiner is a big factor in this percentage as well. I recommend that you consult with an examiner and then take your wife to just talk to him. Part of the exam is to estimate their nervousness to all questions, as compared to specific questions. This washes out general nervousness to the exam and allows them to concentrate on specific questions. The also ask this question multiple ways to ensure the response is the same every time. While the results of these tests will provide you with evidence, what you do with this information is up to you. Do not let anyone tell you that you HAVE to do something based on these results. That is up to you exclusively. Posters, even those that seem on the edge are intending to save you from the pain they have gone through. Still every situation is different and what I may be able to forgive, may not be true for someone else. You are the one that is putting themselves out there and will receive the pain if you are wrong, so that is strictly your call. 1
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