The only time personality matters.

[Mrlonelyone]

Actually the intelligent on paper ones are the biggest pains in the ass IME. Lots of experience with both sides of the bell curve backing that opinion. I like em within one standard deviation to the right these days, no further. Else we are in perma SSRI land. Those tend to like me less but piss me off less too.

 

Richard Feynman, not in perma SSRI land while old and with terminal cancer.

Richard Feynman Playing The Bongos - Extended Version - YouTube

That's a Nobel Laureate Physicist.

 

Intelligent on paper? You make things like engineering, medicine, basic research and artistic creativity sound utterly trivial.

 

 

Trick question, the most intelligent men avoid marriage today, at least in the U.S. C'mon you knew I was gonna say that! thanks for the softball though.

 

I agree that the divorce and family law in this country are so tilted against men, and fathers rights, that marriage is very risky for men. A man who has a good level of intelligence about both people and nature (high EQ and IQ) would pick a compatible woman and know how to make a marriage work. Such a man would also get a pre nup with things like splitting marital assets, child custody, etc worked out in advance. (A smart woman wouldn't object either, the alternative is a long and expensive court battle.)

[Necromancer]

This is so true for a lot of women. There is a very small percentage of men that I look at make an immediate "yes" or "no" decision regarding sex. Most fall in the "hmm, maybe" category and then if they have a great personality, I end up wanting to jump them.

 

I though women in most cases know in 10 sec if they wana **** you are not.

[yongyong]

All average guys know they can't attract many girls they want. but there will be a few of his type who will be attracted to him. (In my case, every 2 months. it's not that a lot compared to my approaches but I can't complain)

 

I can really assume you sort of have 'high school diploma' for your looks and are trying to apply for an office level work. Yes who the heck you are, you won't even get to the interview.

 

My advice is to look for an job like Mcdonalds level that's more suitable for your looks.

[Necromancer]

All average guys know they can't attract many girls they want. but there will be a few of his type who will be attracted to him. (In my case, every 2 months. it's not that a lot compared to my approaches but I can't complain)

 

I can really assume you sort of have 'high school diploma' for your looks and are trying to apply for an office level work. Yes who the heck you are, you won't even get to the interview.

 

My advice is to look for an job like Mcdonalds level that's more suitable for your looks.

 

Lowering standards, nahh i just go for girls i am attracted to.

[Mrlonelyone]

I though women in most cases know in 10 sec if they wana **** you are not.

 

That's pick up artist BS. If anything the decision that a man is eff able is a chaotic mess of influences. First impressions matter, but so does long term observation.

 

For what it's worth. I have seen a man and thought he was too short, kinda pug fugly. But his personality was pretty good. It was in the home depot and he helped me with detailed instructions on how to build a fence. He didn't work there. By the end of our conversation I was totally turned on and he asked for my number and gave me his business card.

 

To prove I was actually turned on by this guy by the end of the conversation, lets just say I had to think unsexy thoughts or I would have had to try to hide my raging 7" tranny surprise which would not have stayed hidden much longer.

 

We didn't hook up in the end. I found that he, like so many of the others, was married. I didn't want to do that sort of thing anymore. I have personally directly experienced being the woman, for most intents and purposes, and having my mind changed by a man's personality, confidence, demonstrated intelligence etc. So don't tell me it can't happen.

 

I've similar stories about women. Anyone around long enough remembers that at one point I was head over heels for an opera singer. When I first met her I thought she was annoying and unremarkable.

 

 

That is in addition to the fact that every woman I've ever had sex with was not initially hot and wet for me, or had a bit of a gay/lesbian panic when they were. If they didn't find me utterly repulsive, they at least found me to be a good person to know and in more than a few cases have sex with. Perhaps not be their BF/GF (depending on ones perspective) for fear of social rejection, but they'd want to hook up.

 

TL;DR: The women make an irreversible choice on if they will ever have sex with someone in <10 seconds is a PUA myth. I've changed my mind about men and women long after a first meeting. Furthermore minds have changed about sex with me long after a first meeting.

 

Just relax, do you, and don't sweat 31tch_s who will write you off based on the first meeting.

[dasein]

That's a Nobel Laureate Physicist.

 

I don't date men, and it's not men in the U.S. who pop SSRIs, anti anxiety meds like candy... none of my male friends has a pharmacist on call, and few of the women in the first deviation to the right I've dated do. Men are violent, women are crazy, don't know which is worse.

 

Intelligent on paper? You make things like engineering, medicine, basic research and artistic creativity sound utterly trivial.

 

You sure the above is a fair inference from what I posted? "Utterly trivial?"

[Mrlonelyone]

I don't date men, and it's not men in the U.S. who pop SSRIs, anti anxiety meds like candy... none of my male friends has a pharmacist on call, and few of the women in the first deviation to the right I've dated do. Men are violent, women are crazy, don't know which is worse.

 

 

I thought we were talking about what women find attractive in men.

 

You sure the above is a fair inference from what I posted? "Utterly trivial?"

 

Yes. The whole "inteligent on paper" "book smart vs. street smart" discussion is just a way to trivialize knowledge gained by academic study. The assumption being that one can get a degree without understanding the people and politics of higher education.

[Necromancer]

That's pick up artist BS. If anything the decision that a man is eff able is a chaotic mess of influences. First impressions matter, but so does long term observation.

 

For what it's worth. I have seen a man and thought he was too short, kinda pug fugly. But his personality was pretty good. It was in the home depot and he helped me with detailed instructions on how to build a fence. He didn't work there. By the end of our conversation I was totally turned on and he asked for my number and gave me his business card.

 

To prove I was actually turned on by this guy by the end of the conversation, lets just say I had to think unsexy thoughts or I would have had to try to hide my raging 7" tranny surprise which would not have stayed hidden much longer.

 

We didn't hook up in the end. I found that he, like so many of the others, was married. I didn't want to do that sort of thing anymore. I have personally directly experienced being the woman, for most intents and purposes, and having my mind changed by a man's personality, confidence, demonstrated intelligence etc. So don't tell me it can't happen.

 

I've similar stories about women. Anyone around long enough remembers that at one point I was head over heels for an opera singer. When I first met her I thought she was annoying and unremarkable.

 

 

That is in addition to the fact that every woman I've ever had sex with was not initially hot and wet for me, or had a bit of a gay/lesbian panic when they were. If they didn't find me utterly repulsive, they at least found me to be a good person to know and in more than a few cases have sex with. Perhaps not be their BF/GF (depending on ones perspective) for fear of social rejection, but they'd want to hook up.

 

TL;DR: The women make an irreversible choice on if they will ever have sex with someone in <10 seconds is a PUA myth. I've changed my mind about men and women long after a first meeting. Furthermore minds have changed about sex with me long after a first meeting.

 

Just relax, do you, and don't sweat 31tch_s who will write you off based on the first meeting.

 

 

Women don't **** your personality, if I approach a woman I bet she knows 95% the second she saw me if I was yes\no.

 

There wouldn't be no instant rejections if it wasn't like that. The time they lay eyes on you, it's either would like to know better or not.

[dasein]

I thought we were talking about what women find attractive in men.

 

I thought we were talking about more intelligent people's capacity to realize and appreciate intelligence, fair paraphrase? and then specifically my anecdotal observation that intelligent -women- have been more of a pain in the ass IME, creating a tradeoff between their ability to recognize and appreciate intelligence and their painintheassitude? Sorry if unclear. Was late when I posted that.

 

Yes. The whole "inteligent on paper" "book smart vs. street smart" discussion is just a way to trivialize knowledge gained by academic study. The assumption being that one can get a degree without understanding the people and politics of higher education.

 

I used the phrase "intelligent on paper," but wasn't my intent to start a book smart v street smart or academic discussion. Am not a fan of our higher education system in the U.S. though, and if you start a thread, will likely post to it.

[Mrlonelyone]

@Dasein

 

Your points are fair. I was staying closer to the OP about women and attraction.

 

Your experiences are quite valid. However others have been different. I mean, unless you disagree with Darwinism...inteligence more CC's of brain capacity has to have a basic attractive quality. The proof of my point is that we don't live in caves anymore.

 

@necromancer.

 

You can bet and you will loose. I have both changed my mind about men, and had women change their mind about me.

 

Plenty of natural born genetic women have said as much in this very thread. Now 95% of women wont think of screwing 95% of men just because. I mean who walks around thinking about sex sex sex sex all the time?

[yongyong]

I didn't say lower your standards.

 

high school diploma guy is attracted to office work. What would you tell him?

 

 

 

Lowering standards, nahh i just go for girls i am attracted to.

[Els]

Your forgetting the second half of that equation. To recognize the value of intelligence in a mate one has to be intelligent themselves.

 

The women who said that to you either weren't smart enough to realize the true value of what you had to offer. Or the found you absolutely unattractive for some other reason.

 

Quoted for truth. Every single man I know who complained that women were not interested in 'intelligent, average-looking men' was, without exception, either:

 

1) not socializing with, and/or not interested in, women who were similarly average-looking and intelligent as themselves

2) were not truly as intelligent as they believed themselves to be, or

3) had certain traits that turned similarly intelligent women off

 

This is not to say that people should only date people of similar intelligence (how bland would life be if we all only dated mirror copies of ourselves?), but simply that if you wish your intelligence to be a selling point in terms of relationships, it is most likely only going to be a selling point to people of similar intelligence. It is perfectly fine to want to date people who are different, but I can't see why one would want to do so and then expect them to appreciate something that they find irrelevant. It would be like the head chef of a surf & turf restaurant complaining that his vegan date did not appreciate his steak. He needs to stop complaining that his steak doesn't impress her, and either cook something that DOES impress her, or go for someone who actually shares his taste in food.

 

Intelligence is a huge selling point for me, as well as every single man I've ever been with. We appreciate each others' intelligence and personality, quirks and flaws and all, and that is why we are able to be with someone who appreciates our own. It is unrealistic to not appreciate intelligent people of the opposite gender and then expect to be appreciated for your own intelligence.

 

Disclaimer: Solely talking about conventional intelligence here; street smarts are a different kettle of fish.

[LittlePrince]

No man wants the "intelligent" woman. We want the hot bimbo. We wants da redhead. We wants da redhead.

[Els]

S'all good, except you need to stop complaining about da hot bimbo wanting da hot hunk (or da rich papa)...

[Mme. Chaucer]

[quote=Elswyth;4433616

1) not socializing with, and/or not interested in, women who were similarly average-looking and intelligent as themselves

2) were not truly as intelligent as they believed themselves to be, or

3) had certain traits that turned similarly intelligent women off

 

This is not to say that people should only date people of similar intelligence (how bland would life be if we all only dated mirror copies of ourselves?), but simply that if you wish your intelligence to be a selling point in terms of relationships, it is most likely only going to be a selling point to people of similar intelligence.

 

I'd like to add that almost every person, male and female, who complains that their "personality" doesn't matter in dating might very well not have as great a personality as they think they do. Yes, they might be a kind person, and care about other people, but if they are very whiny, suspicious of the opposite gender, angry, self righteous, etc. their personality is probably not coming off as very attractive in real life.

 

As already mentioned, intelligence is not a "personality trait."

 

Many types of intelligence might be impressive but have no play in interpersonal dealings, unless you are talking with someone with the same interests. AND that you actually express your intelligence socially at all, which many very smart people do not.

[LittlePrince]

S'all good, except you need to stop complaining about da hot bimbo wanting da hot hunk (or da rich papa)...

I complained about that? Because I usually just take her down to Louisville for some batting practice and then back to my place.

[Els]

I'd like to add that almost every person, male and female, who complains that their "personality" doesn't matter in dating might very well not have as great a personality as they think they do. Yes, they might be a kind person, and care about other people, but if they are very whiny, suspicious of the opposite gender, angry, self righteous, etc. their personality is probably not coming off as very attractive in real life.

 

Completely agreed. There may be a few people in this world with appearances so horrible that even their good personality is nullified, but the majority of people really don't have an appearance that repulses 100% of the opposite sex.

 

Many types of intelligence might be impressive but have no play in interpersonal dealings, unless you are talking with someone with the same interests.

 

Thank you for explaining in a much better way the point I was trying to make with the steak analogy.

[Els]

I complained about that? Because I usually just take her down to Louisville for some batting practice and then back to my place.

 

Too lazy to dig through your old posts (though I'm certain you have), so I will just refer to the topic of this thread as proof of what I am talking about.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Completely agreed. There may be a few people in this world with appearances so horrible that even their good personality is nullified, but the majority of people really don't have an appearance that repulses 100% of the opposite sex.

 

Yup. AND, I'd also like to add (do I never shut up? ) that all this talk about how "women don't f*** a personality" is pretty useless. There are a few of us in this world who are blessed, or cursed, with extreme physical beauty and irresistible sex appeal. It's rare. The rest of us are working with what we have, which is a combination of all our traits.

[IT Geek]

This is so true for a lot of women. There is a very small percentage of men that I look at make an immediate "yes" or "no" decision regarding sex. Most fall in the "hmm, maybe" category and then if they have a great personality, I end up wanting to jump them.

 

Women make an instant "yes" or "no" decision based on looks as to whether or not they are interested in getting to know the guy enough to determine is he is suitable as a potential partner.

[IT Geek]

My advice is to look for an job like Mcdonalds level that's more suitable for your looks.

 

McDonald's wouldn't even take me. LOL

[Els]

Women make an instant "yes" or "no" decision based on looks as to whether or not they are interested in getting to know the guy enough to determine is he is suitable as a potential partner.

 

Seriously, you are claiming to be able to not only read minds, but to be able to read the minds of every woman on this planet? Didn't you at least learn in your computer science PhD that mass telepathy is currently only a figment of science-fiction imagination? No, Professor X is not real.

[2.50 a gallon]

Necromancer

 

Your post just proves that you do not have an appealing personality

 

Think about it

 

I am retired, that is over 65, and yesterday I was hit on by a good looking 28 year old.

 

Her name is Amanda, chosen by her father, from the song by Don Williams, 6 months ago, while talking to her where she works and finding out the story behind her name, I told her that I had been fortunate to have seen the man in concert many years ago, and if he ever comes to town she should go. She suggested that I could go with her.

 

Yesterday, when I visited her store, she let me know that it has just been announced he will be here in 4 months, and wants me to go with her.

 

At first I thought she was joking, but she was serious

 

Me I am 5' 5", 160 pounds, a little belly, white beard, paint me blue and I would look like a Smurf. So it sure ain't my looks

[Mrlonelyone]

IT Geek. that's just not true. Women don't walk around thinking sex sex sex all the time.

 

Even the most shallow, immature, young woman dosen't really do that. A man can be a hot sexy hunk....but if his personality is totally absent and her friends think he's "creepy" he will not get laid.

 

I'd bet that 75% of you guys on here complaining fall into that category. Every man here who's thought he looked horrible has been better looking than average when he shows a photo.

 

The problem is all in your mind. Remember someone as freaky and unconventional as me has had plenty of sex with women.

 

@Mme Chaucer

 

We don't usually agree about much. But here we do. They have not only several XX women telling them what their internal truth is. They have me, and XY transgender woman who experiences many (not all) of the same things women do telling them what it's like.

 

Apparently people who actually do have sex with men have no idea what makes men attractive to them.

Obviously when we are going about the day we are sizing up each and every man for a sex partner.

Last but not least, we aren't even mentally competent enough to know our own thought process. *

 

 

*In defense of men on that one. Some women are taught that their sexual desires and choices are bad. So they will talk as if looks didn't matter at all. Then proceed to make choices that could only have been based on looks, because they choose a succession of doucebags. We all have a friend like that.

[maybealone]

Women make an instant "yes" or "no" decision based on looks as to whether or not they are interested in getting to know the guy enough to determine is he is suitable as a potential partner.

 

Being argumentative is not going to help you get dates.

 

I am a woman. I have a lot of female friends. I know that while most of us might make an instant "yes" or "no" decision about a small percentage of men, for many women the majority of men are falling into the "maybe" category.

 

Even the men I have dated that I shared the most amazing sexual chemistry with started out as maybes. Granted, a "no" is not going to turn into a "yes," but I pretty rarely see a man that is so unattractive that he is an instant "no."

 

And generally a percentage of those that get a "no" are related to characteristics, like age, greasy hair, and being argumentative.