OM put up hutch in my house. It's a painful trigger. ??

[BetrayedH]

So now you blame shifting and justifying the lies and lack of communication as well?

 

The mind of a cheater, wow. I guess people have to be able to live with themselves.

 

My wife did the same thing though. She started blaming me for her fears, which were completely unfounded. She thought I'd literally kill her if she told the truth What a loon. It's the lies that create what you fear the most...self fulfilling prophecy, that's when I got the most explosive, when i discovered the lies.

 

It's the art of self-delusion. It's the BS's fault, it was a mistake, it just happened, it's human nature, blah, blah, blah. They know it's wrong; that's why they lie about it. When they're busted, they just keep weaving more intricate rationalizations because it is all they know. If anyone else knew the truth, they might be forced to admit it to friends, family, and perhaps even themselves. Let's just stick with lie, deny, minimize, blameshift, and gaslight if necessary. Avoid facing the plain-spoken truth at all costs because that would take courage and might actually place someone else's needs before their own.

[Realist3]

So now you blame shifting and justifying the lies and lack of communication as well?

 

The mind of a cheater, wow. I guess people have to be able to live with themselves.

 

My wife did the same thing though. She started blaming me for her fears, which were completely unfounded. She thought I'd literally kill her if she told the truth What a loon. It's the lies that create what you fear the most...self fulfilling prophecy, that's when I got the most explosive, when i discovered the lies.

 

I'm not blame shifting at all. Both spouses could have trouble bringing up things that may not be up to their expectations or desires. The longer a relationship the more difficult that can become for various reasons. Perhaps it was brought up but no change took place. Lots of different possibilities.

 

The point being is that it is not always possible to just up and say, "I don't like this. Let's fix it." And face it, some things are not fixable and both spouses know it. "You're just not attractive to me anymore. You're not romantic enough. You don't comminicate in an effective manner." There are tons of examples where the other spouse simply may not be able to address the concerns of the other spouse. We ted to call them faults, and we usually overlook them because other things makeup for those "faults".

[Realist3]

It's the art of self-delusion. It's the BS's fault, it was a mistake, it just happened, it's human nature, blah, blah, blah. They know it's wrong; that's why they lie about it. When they're busted, they just keep weaving more intricate rationalizations because it is all they know. If anyone else knew the truth, they might be forced to admit it to friends, family, and perhaps even themselves. Let's just stick with lie, deny, minimize, blameshift, and gaslight if necessary. Avoid facing the plain-spoken truth at all costs because that would take courage and might actually place someone else's needs before their own.

 

I think you are being too dismissive of the fact that every spouse in every relationship has faults. Over time those faults can grow. As I stated above we usually overlook those faults. One spouse may start drinking, turn to drugs, have an affair, spend less time around the house, get a divorce. People deal with it in different ways. To suggest they don't have an effect on the marriage is being naive.

[BetrayedH]

I think you are being too dismissive of the fact that every spouse in every relationship has faults. Over time those faults can grow. As I stated above we usually overlook those faults. One spouse may start drinking, turn to drugs, have an affair, spend less time around the house, get a divorce. People deal with it in different ways. To suggest they don't have an effect on the marriage is being naive.

 

I've never once denied that everyone has faults. Sure they have an effect. Some people deal with it in a healthy fashion and some don't. I have no problem calling out the people that choose an unhealthy and destructive route. Cheating is a choice. Staying faithful is a choice. Just because talking is difficult doesn't excuse the obligation to do it when that's what you've signed up for. Quit making excuses.

[Realist3]

I think it's rather obvious that everyone has faults. To suggest that the "effect on the marriage" MUST be that someone becomes a sneaky liar is quite ridiculous.

 

 

I never said anything about "must" do one thing or another. I said people handle it in different ways.

[Realist3]

I've never once denied that everyone has faults. Sure they have an effect. Some people deal with it in a healthy fashion and some don't. I have no problem calling out the people that choose an unhealthy and destructive route. Cheating is a choice. Staying faithful is a choice. Just because talking is difficult doesn't excuse the obligation to do it when that's what you've signed up for. Quit making excuses.

 

 

You are making it far too simple because that fits within your "belief" of what should be done and your position as a BS.

 

How do you tell a controlling husband that his behaviors over decades have finally worn you down to the point that you are no longer emotionally vested in the relationship? "Let's go to C because I no longer love you." HA!

[eleanorrigby]

You are making it far too simple because that fits within your "belief" of what should be done and your position as a BS.

 

How do you tell a controlling husband that his behaviors over decades have finally worn you down to the point that you are no longer emotionally vested in the relationship? "Let's go to C because I no longer love you." HA!

 

You just do it. Grown up's handle their business.

[jja470]

You just do it. Grown up's handle their business.

Yep. People handle things differently alright. The adult way or the juvenile way.

[Realist3]

You just do it. Grown up's handle their business.

 

 

It is not quite as black and white as you would like to paint it.

 

At this place the prevailing thought is the BS is always the victim and that simply is not the case in the real world.

[BetrayedH]

You are making it far too simple because that fits within your "belief" of what should be done and your position as a BS.

 

How do you tell a controlling husband that his behaviors over decades have finally worn you down to the point that you are no longer emotionally vested in the relationship? "Let's go to C because I no longer love you." HA!

 

It is that simple. "Your controlling behaviors have finally worn me down to the point where I'm no longer emotional invested in the relationship. We need to go to counseling or divorce." It's a freakin' conversation. It isn't rocket surgery. Talk honestly and openly with your spouse. Thinking that an affair is going to solve anything is what is naive. Is all that running around, lying and sneaking seriously easier than the conversation? Bull****. It's only easier for someone with cowardice and enough selfishness to get their own needs met while keeping their partner in the dark. Again, excuses, excuses. Own your sh|t. It stinks.

[BetrayedH]

It is not quite as black and white as you would like to paint it.

 

At this place the prevailing thought is the BS is always the victim and that simply is not the case in the real world.

 

It's perfectly black and white. You took clear and distinct vows in front of your family, your best friends, and your God that you would stay faithful. Period. It ain't grey, bud. And no measure of insistence will make it grey. Fix the marriage or leave it. You chose door number 3 and that is most certainly no one's fault but your own. Your BS was victimized by your cowardice and deception. The fact that you were afraid to do the right thing doesn't make it ok.

[whichwayisup]

It is not quite as black and white as you would like to paint it.

 

At this place the prevailing thought is the BS is always the victim and that simply is not the case in the real world.

 

Of course any problems in a marriage, it takes two. Neither is a victim. BUT, when it comes to one spouse (CS) cheating on the other spouse (BS), the BS is ALWAYS the victim.

 

I think because you're a MM, you can only see things one way, due to your own personal life and situation. You justify everything and wash your hands of your wrong doing to your wife.

[Owl]

Of course any problems in a marriage, it takes two. Neither is a victim. BUT, when it comes to one spouse (CS) cheating on the other spouse (BS), the BS is ALWAYS the victim.

 

I think because you're a MM, you can only see things one way, due to your own personal life and situation. You justify everything and wash your hands of your wrong doing to your wife.

 

Yup.

 

You can't force someone to see what they refuse to see.

 

If he viewed it any other way than he does...he'd view himself in a poorer light. Apparently not something he can do at this point.

[freestyle]

Resorting to cheating, and calculated deception, because of unsolved problems in a marriage---is kind of the same as pouring gasoline onto a fire.

 

It just makes everything infinitely worse. Things that could have been resolved with open , honest communication, & ultimatums, if necessary, become eclipsed by an unforgettable breach of trust.

 

Especially when that gasoline could be used as an accelerant for , oh, I dunno--How 'bout torching a hutch?

[road]

I agree with that, especially the bolded part. I also presume there are many reasons for not coming forward, especially in longer term M. Rifts develop, and broaching those subjects may just not seem worth the time and effort. Could be many things.

 

 

So it is worth the effort to sneak and cheat, then get caught, cause worse pain, go through a nasty divorce, or instead take the high road, address the issues, resolve them or get a divorce before one cheats?

[road]

I never said anything about "must" do one thing or another. I said people handle it in different ways.

 

 

No but you keep making reasons to justify infidelity.

[road]

It is not quite as black and white as you would like to paint it.

 

At this place the prevailing thought is the BS is always the victim and that simply is not the case in the real world.

 

 

They BS did not force their WS to have an affair. The WS made a choice to have an affair. That is the real truth on this planet.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Another great one is when people have As with married people...and still blame it on the BS. Ummm...even if you were single...that...would still be WRONG!

 

Happened to me...my wife still tried to blow that off when I told her that. I couldn't even begin to understand her reasoning enough to repeat it...

[nofool4u]

It is not quite as black and white as you would like to paint it.

 

At this place the prevailing thought is the BS is always the victim and that simply is not the case in the real world.

 

But of course its not to someone that has cheated on his wife.

[nofool4u]

"What did I do to make you seek affection outside of our marriage?"

 

This board mainly deals with the symptom(The A), not the root cause of the infection.

 

The BS didn't make the cheater sleep with someone else.

 

Just more excuses and blame shifting as usual.

[Woggle]

If it were me I would give her the hutch to use at her new place she would be living after the divorce but that is just me.

[Realist3]

The BS didn't make the cheater sleep with someone else.

 

Just more excuses and blame shifting as usual.

 

Sleeping with someone is not the end all. Some of you do not get that. EA's are just as damaging in a real sense because they have given their brain/heart to someone else.

[Realist3]

But of course its not to someone that has cheated on his wife.

 

 

Like I said the victim card is heavily played here. No matter what the WS is at fault and that is not necessarily the case. Yes, they made a bad decision in handling a problem, but it does not in and of itself mean they are the responible party for the problem. Surely you can understand that.

[nofool4u]

Sleeping with someone is not the end all.

 

No, but its closer to the end all than what you are trying to insinuate.

 

But really, you are on the end that did the sleeping, so again, of course you are going to say that.

 

 

Some of you do not get that. EA's are just as damaging in a real sense because they have given their brain/heart to someone else.

 

Nope, most of us get it just fine. I never said EA's aren't as damaging. I'm fully aware that they can be. It depends on the person on the ***** end of the stick and how they perceive it. Its not for the cheater to decide.

[nofool4u]

Like I said the victim card is heavily played here. No matter what the WS is at fault and that is not necessarily the case. Yes, they made a bad decision in handling a problem, but it does not in and of itself mean they are the responible party for the problem. Surely you can understand that.

 

I can understand that yes. But once someone cheats, they give up their right to complain about the problem really.

 

Lets say I was married and my wife had sexually neglected me a bit. Then I go out and cheat.

 

If we were to move on and work on the marriage, and she no longer neglected me, her past neglect isn't something that would haunt me. It is just simply something that was there.

 

However, my cheating could, and more than likely would, haunt her from time to time and the memory of me sticking my d!ck in another woman would hurt her. In contrast to her past neglect, thinking about it wouldn't hurt me. For cheaters the latter is simply an excuse for what they did and isn't something that is likely traumatize them.