SmithM Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I found emails in which my husband asks to go to this woman's house for sex?! There are hundreds of emails of their 4-year long affair. She mentions in one that in all that time, they only had sex twice! But in a recent one, from a couple of months ago, my husband mentions a hotel but then asks to go to her house - she's married too?! Does this mean this is a serious affair to him? He has told me, since I confronted him, that she was only sex. But there are different signs pointing to the contrary - talking about himself as a father, about how he does everything with the kids, complimenting her mothering skills ( she had already slept with him), offering her a job working for him, etc. Am I right to think that asking to go to her house was too personal and further proof that he was emotionally involved? He even tried to compare himself to her husband a few times in the emails, acting jealous?
Realist3 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I think others have already tried to tell you what you seem to want to ignore. YES, they were/are emotionally involved. It wasn't just about the sex. You don't have a four year relationship otherwise. I'm not sure why you are unwilling to see what is right in front of your face. 5
JamesM Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I found emails in which my husband asks to go to this woman's house for sex?! Intelligence is never a priority when a man is overwhelmed by lust. There are hundreds of emails of their 4-year long affair. She mentions in one that in all that time, they only had sex twice! But in a recent one, from a couple of months ago, my husband mentions a hotel but then asks to go to her house - she's married too?! Did they truly only have sex twice? That sounds strange with so many emails. Were the emails about sex or about feelings and emotions? Does this mean this is a serious affair to him? He has told me, since I confronted him, that she was only sex. But there are different signs pointing to the contrary - talking about himself as a father, about how he does everything with the kids, complimenting her mothering skills ( she had already slept with him), offering her a job working for him, etc. As a guy, I can tell you that we often say what we think a woman wants to hear. While it really only may have been sex for him, he knows that if he treats her as a sexual mistress, then she will feel used. She needs to feel that he wants her for more than her body. He compliments her to make her feel good. And as for him as a father, he wants to make himself out to be quite the dad. Note that he never mentions how good of a husband he would make! Does defining this as only sex make it easier for you? If this involved his emotions, does it hurt more? Am I right to think that asking to go to her house was too personal and further proof that he was emotionally involved? He even tried to compare himself to her husband a few times in the emails, acting jealous? He is quite a piece of work! Going to her house is not any more personal for him. It may be for her. He is simply looking for a good place to have sex. I am guessing that he was more involved with her than just sex, but that does not mean that she meant more to him than you. Having said that, you must make a decision...move forward with him or without him. He cheated plain and simple. He needs to show remorse and a willingness to completely reconcile. He needs to do everything to earn your trust. The question is...can you forgive him knowing what you know? Could you forgive him if this was about more than sex? I have seen couples reconcile and build a better marriage, but it takes both of them to make it happen. Go to this link. Maybe it will help. Surviving Infidelity and Recovering From Affairs - Beyondaffairs.com 6
CarrieT Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I have asked it before, Smith. Why are you asking the same question over-and-over? After four years and thousands of emails, it is a SERIOUS AFFAIR. Why can't you believe that? He is emotionally attached to this other woman - it isn't just sex. Again - what are you looking for since you don't seem to be listening to what people here are telling you? 7
freestyle Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 So, how is the betrayal affecting you, OP? How are you holding up? 2
Author SmithM Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 Yes, I've posted before and gotten wonderful advice. But my husband confuses me. He keeps harping on how the affair shouldn't "count" as four years because they only talked every few months. By his admission, at one point they went one and a half years not talking ( even though, in that time, he got his employee to offer her a job workIng for him... She said no but said she might say yes at the end of the year, and he shelved the position! He says it was just business, but he mentions it to her in an email.) He also mentions going to her professional profile during that time and hoping she would see it. So no talking, but contact nonetheless. And my husband is the kind of guy who's very, very popular with women. He can have any woman he wants. The emails were about sex ( very dirty sex ) and also about our family, our kids, her kid - at one point she sent him a picture of her child and he was gushing over how much her boy had her facial features, etc. He wrote very hurtful things, like he had masturbated thinking about her "so many times", etc. Too much to mention here. I always get so torn after I talk to him, but in my head this was too serious/emotional to get over. But another part of me wants to believe him, that it was only sex. It's very easy to say "just leave", but reality is more complicated. I keep thinking I'm exaggerating his involvement.
CarboniteCammy Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I don't know whether you should stay or go, but I do know that with him trying to minimize what he did and otherwise gaslighting you, that you won't be able to make a rational decision. I think it might do you good to ask him to move out, or if he won't, then YOU take the initiative and move out, and get your feet under you and figure out what's best for you. He's doing his best to cover up what he did and manipulate you into thinking it wasn't as bad as what it actually was. Do you know who ended the affair? I'm betting the OW ended it, because he sounds like he was really infatuated. 3
Author SmithM Posted December 4, 2012 Author Posted December 4, 2012 They had 9 or 10 break ups over the years - one or the other would stop contact. This last time, a few weeks before I found out, he had gone back to her asking to get back together. She wrote this really long email ending it once and for all, saying that she loved him but didn't want to, how she has an incredible husband who knows about the affair (she told him) and still stayed, etc. She ended it. Then emailed him just to say she hoped his job would be safe and she was worried about him after hearing rumors about his company. He wrote back immediately, trying to make her feel better. Thanking her for thinking of him. No reply from her. So yes, she ended it.
CarrieT Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 But another part of me wants to believe him, that it was only sex. It's very easy to say "just leave", but reality is more complicated. I keep thinking I'm exaggerating his involvement. The mere fact that it was on-and-off again for four years would indicate it is way more than sex. You are not exaggerating his involvement. You get confused after talking to him because he is Gaslighting you. Google that phrase and see if it sounds familiar: " It may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim." He is playing you and you are allowing him to... 3
Realist3 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I don't care what you do one way or the other, but you need to stop placing yourself in a position of questioning his motives. Yes, he wants you to do just that, but the fact is he was involved in a longterm affair. You seem to want to bend over backwards to believe his scenario. "It was just sex". If you are fine with him having "just sex" with whomever then fine. Everything you have posted on this forum would lead any rational person to make the conclusion that this affair meant something to him beyond sex. He was emotionally attached to her. Is that a deal breaker for you? I'm guessing not because the evidence is overwhelming. If I remember correctly you have 6 kids by this man. That is a huge job to deal with. And by your posts I also assume you porbably do not have the "power" in the relationship. Since you do not come across as a person willing to take control over the situation, you have a very simple question to ask yourself. What is your breaking point and are you ready to take hold of that? Assuming every worst case scenario, regardless of what he has told you, are you in a position to walk out? Knowing that worst case scenario are you wanting to walk out? Those are the two questions you must answer for yourself. In every relationship there are positions of power/control. Do you want to take control? You have a lot of control and power although you may not realize it. 1
Tainted love Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I really feel for you Smith, because you can hear in your words your desperation to believe him. I'm in a similar sort of situation and part of me (albeit a small part) wants to believe that it was just sex, there was no real emotion or feeling. But, I gotta be true to myself - deep down I know that there was and that is probably the hardest part to bear. I felt myself go a little crazy with hope - hope that he wasn't lying, hope that my life wouldn't have to change, everything could just go back to normal. I am now realising that there was no 'normal' - what I thought was our reality was a very different one for him. I've gone back to the one thing I can rely on - my instincts. And my instincts say it was more than casual sex. Sometimes my instincts can be wrong but I'd rather trust them than any lies. What do your instincts say? 1
Spark1111 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 They had 9 or 10 break ups over the years - one or the other would stop contact. This last time, a few weeks before I found out, he had gone back to her asking to get back together. She wrote this really long email ending it once and for all, saying that she loved him but didn't want to, how she has an incredible husband who knows about the affair (she told him) and still stayed, etc. She ended it. Then emailed him just to say she hoped his job would be safe and she was worried about him after hearing rumors about his company. He wrote back immediately, trying to make her feel better. Thanking her for thinking of him. No reply from her. So yes, she ended it. I get where you are at, I really do. You want to believe him, but still you can't because all his actions do not match what he is claiming now. In time, you will be able to answer this, if you want to, or if you care enough too: Did he love her, the real her, or was he in love with the fantasy he allowed himself to project on her? There is a difference. Often lovers fall in love with the fantasy and not the reality of the person. More time is spent in the perfect talking and texting and planning to be together than in real face time with a real person living their real lives. The perfect, may or may not be consummated, perpetual third date. think of how exciting and illicit that must be, how obsessive, to crave what you cannot have everyday? Really read the emails....you can get a sense of how superficial or true they read to you. You have known him a long time. Is he acting as himself? Or is he projecting a persona of who she needs him to be? You will drive yourself crazy if you, like me, try to find the rational in the unrational. Hey, I've been in love and did not write 100s of emails or thousands of texts about a whole lot of ....not too much... Does't it sound like an addiction? 2
turnera Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Even if it WAS just sex, does that make it right? Good grief. Why should he care about you when even YOU don't care enough to stand up for yourself? He is used to manipulating you because he knows you have too little self esteem to leave. 1
2sunny Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I have one question: How could you possibly betray yourself and stay with him?
Author SmithM Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 I could stay with him because he could be telling the truth. Some of you remember my other thread, where I mentioned I found out about two other sex only affairs. If he only had sex with this particular woman twice in 4 years, which is true ( too long to explain, but it is true), it could be because he had other options, so the sporadic, every-few-months contact made up the 4 years because he wasn't that into her. Isn't this possible? That's not what he has said, he has never mentioned his feelings about her one way or the other, only that she was "just sex". Am I fooling myself? Or do 4 years preclude emotional involvement in and of itself? It just doesn't seem likely to me that a man who's in love would choose to break sex dates with the woman, which emails show that he did about half the time (they broke up/stopped talking 9 or 10 times. Then he would go back to her either saying that he really "needed" to see her, or apologizing and saying he "got scared".) I just have a hard time seeing this as emotional. Especially since he had cheated before. I'm in limbo right now. No, sex only is not okay, but him having feelings would hit me harder.
Realist3 Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 Are you fooling yourself? Yes. You stumbled upon a method of communication between them. What makes you think that is the only method? I have 6 methods. What I mean by that, is why do you presume that what you have read is the whole story? Because you want to? People who break up and get back together 9-10 times have an emotional relationship.
freestyle Posted December 7, 2012 Posted December 7, 2012 I think it's most likely that he had her pegged as an "easy mark". Someone who he could occasionally toss crumbs to--and she'd still wag her tail. It's kind of sad & pathetic, when you really think about it. There are men that will treat women that way. Given the fact that your H has proven to be a serial cheater, he may very well have the "wind 'em up--watch 'em go" attitude about women on the side. It's all about boosting his ego. With no regard for the aftermath of his actions. As I've stated before---whether or not his feelings for this particular OW are real, is irrelevant. SHE is irrelevant. I'm really baffled by your fixation on that . The elephant in the room, is the fact that your H is a serial cheater, who obviously treats women like they're disposable. Is that who you want to grow old with? You said "I could stay with him, because he could be telling the truth.." Why would you take him at his word, after all of the repeated cheating? What steps has he taken to regain your trust? 4
turnera Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 Smith, come on. I know you're not stupid. But you sure are acting like it. Why are you so f'ing desperate to not lose him - to not be alone - that you can make yourself look THIS gullible? 1
2sunny Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) Smith, come on. I know you're not stupid. But you sure are acting like it. Why are you so f'ing desperate to not lose him - to not be alone - that you can make yourself look THIS gullible? Because she so desperately wants to believe that he was only cheating a little bit... The fact that he was cheating at all should be enough to end it. This OP needs help finding her boundary! ÀNY boundary wold be better that this NO BOUNDARY she seems to working from! And YES - you ARE fooling yourself! You think you have a R with your H - but what he's really handed you is a farce! But it's YOUR fault now - because you're you're the one willing to settle for what he's offered. Edited December 8, 2012 by 2sunny
Author SmithM Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 I found new emails and plans between my husband and this woman. She emailed him very curtly, saying "I really want to see you. Can we get together next week?". And he not only acted surprised that she was coming back, he asked what she wanted to do... I won't add everything here but he kept sending her multiple emails, saying "I wish you were around today" and "What made you reach out to me? I'm flattered." ( She said no and ended things between them for the 9th time a few months ago, after he asked her to get back together.) He mentions how much he's "going crazy thinking about" seeing her, she asks if he still remembers and he actually goes "how could I forget??" (they haven't had sex in 2.5 years) and how she was "one of the best". He asks to see her today or tomorrow because he "may not be able to wait until next week"...* So many things, including being all respectful asking her where to go - and here's the topper: he proposes that they see each other weekly!! She didn't reply to that. Then she says her husband came home so they can't talk on the phone... She proposes emailing late tonight and he says he can't that late (probably because I'm home!) and proposes tomorrow... Then she sends him a picture of her mouth telling him to call her tomorrow! And he's being all playful about it, that was the tone. And he was ALL over her. I'm torn between telling him I know. He password protects his phone but I know what it is - he doesn't know.* Does this prove his involvement? I can't believe he would hurt me like this again because she came back. After all the pain he's seen me go through. How do I proceed? Do I accuse him of being in love with her for taking her back?
Spark1111 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Idk....Where you see love, I see lust. Do they talk of anything other that how hotly he is anticipating having sex with her? And whenever a man or woman wants to have sex in the marital home, that is just about the biggest red flag to punishing the spouse for something. Or, they are rebelling against a mean mommy or mean daddy that they have projected onto the spouse unfairly. Some affairs are truly about revenge, anger and punishing, and frankly, I feel sorry for any OWor OM who misconstrues that weird dynamic as love. They got used twice, IMO. Generally, this person often deeply loves their spouse. Remember, the opposite of love is not hate and anger. It's indifference. In therapy, if he goes or you make him, he can discover that it was really mommy he was so mad at for not loving him enough and does have the capacity to fall deeply in love with his spouse again. If you want that or even care to give it a shot. His OWs are a symptom, not the cause of what ails him, but that would take a lot of time and therapy to sort out. 2
Cb3657 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I get a strong feeling you are now going to receive a lot of insults, you are acting blind Relook at what you wrote He was clearly strongly involved He is not yet telling you the truth or even taking his passwords off his phone You are trying to believe a obvious fabrication, until and unless he want things to change they won't unless you do it. Please stand up for your dignity, think of how he must feel about your intelligence to make such a foolish set of lies. Take some drastic action, leave, get a divorce lawyer, I sure others will tell you to go to PI mode( investigative) I'm not that guy but make a change.
CarrieT Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 How do you proceed? Sue him for divorce and full alimony. No one should have to put up with this much deceit in a marriage and continually find excuses the way you have done... 3
Author SmithM Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 I am bending over backwards to find an alternative to divorce. I want him to not be in love with her so that we can work on our marriage. He's taking her back for the 10th time. FOUR years. Can that really be just lust? He was my only boyfriend so my views on the subject are skewed. I don't mind insults as long as I get feedback that would help see the real situation. He has to be lying about the seriousness even more than I thought.
CarrieT Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Ten times in four years is more than lust. I'm sorry you don't have more respect for yourself than to tolerate this repeated behavior. 3
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