PUA Date

[MrCastle]

check out sosuave.net

 

Ive gotten some through enjoyment out that site while being bored for an hour or so at work

 

When I dont put out before 3 dates, it could mean I dont like you. More likely I just dont trust you enough. People put on a false self in the first 3 dates

 

I'm a member on that forum under a different name.

[Estate]

I see what youre saying...but Im not interested in dating this guy. But I am curious to see what his moves are and he has peaked my interest there...but I wouldnt sleep with this guy. I like studying how men try to manipulate girls into bed. Its like monkeys at the watering hole

 

I hear you... but at the same time... that IS the game.

 

He has peaked your interest for some reason or another. He has shown something the "regular" guy didn't... so whether you had decided to sleep with him or not, the game has already worked... next step is to take THAT interest make you even more curious about him.

 

I mean, its no different to any other guy is doing, but he probably has more of a game plan.

 

Sorry to go on, I know you're not meeting him, it's just to make a point to people in general about PUA.

 

If all you told us is accurate, he does sound like someone who's read up on PUA but doesn't sound like a PUA. He sounds like he doesn't "get it".

 

As I said, PUA CAN be a good thing for some guys if they get it. What I mean is, and repeating the point above, guys often just don't really know what they are doing or what the next step to take is. PUA can help guys learn what mistakes they are making and improve it so better themselves and be better guys for the girls they meet.

 

But what he is doing is failing at it. Guys are often clueless as to what to do to make girls attracted to them. It sounds like he thinks he was doing it right by following the plan but since he was just plain bad at it, he's not actually attracted you enough/at all and is now skipping to the next stage.

 

What makes me think he is a PUA is how he was telling you about the other girls and stuff... thats called a DHV, which is basically to give you the impression he meets lots of great girls so he must be a great guy. The problem is, it obviously came off fake and probably isn't true. Some bad PUAs do this a lot... tell stories to big themselves up and make them look like they aren't desperate and can get other girls... but the point is, it has to be TRUE.

 

I mean, if you saw a guy who seems to get a lot of interest from girls, maybe he is at the bar with a lot of female friends and is the life of the party but doesn't come across like he's hitting on them all or sleazy, he looks like they just genuinely like him... them human nature will make another girl think he must be an attractive guy... hey, lots of other girls like him, he's good with lots of female friends and he's not creepy about it! Great!

 

But a bad PUA will tell lame stories about his "hot ex" and "this girl I work with... blah blah..." to give this fake impression of being attractive to lots of girls.

 

 

My point being this...

PUA generates a lot of bad things. Some guys just don't get it and it comes off terrible.

For all you know, maybe the nice guy is gaming you too, but he's doing it the right way. He's being a man and being genuine but he's learned to put his best foot forward and be a great guy and all he wants is to meet a really nice girlfriend but he's not using the lame tactics some guys come up with and coming off like a dick.

 

PUA has it's merrits, some guys are really good guys but just not great at chatting to girls or often make simple mistakes purely out of nerves or not knowing what to do next, the problem is guys just not getting it right and for all their BS, these guys never get laid at all. I've seen it for myself.

[pbjbear]

My point being this...

PUA generates a lot of bad things. Some guys just don't get it and it comes off terrible.

For all you know, maybe the nice guy is gaming you too, but he's doing it the right way. He's being a man and being genuine but he's learned to put his best foot forward and be a great guy and all he wants is to meet a really nice girlfriend but he's not using the lame tactics some guys come up with and coming off like a dick.

 

PUA has it's merrits, some guys are really good guys but just not great at chatting to girls or often make simple mistakes purely out of nerves or not knowing what to do next, the problem is guys just not getting it right and for all their BS, these guys never get laid at all. I've seen it for myself.

 

Ok you got me a bit more convinced here. From my experiences, few PUA's want to find a partner that makes them happy and is steady with them...the majority Ive met are out to use women and if the woman doesnt go to their pace (which is very fast) they write them off

 

I see what youre saying about the lying, but I really dont think this guy was lying. Hes super attractive and Im sure he gets hit on alot

[aed]

I dont ever recontact guys. I get asked out alot and Im not that desparate.

 

Theres always that possibility. However, I have too many bad experiences with men that act this way...dated 3 that acted this way and none turned out well. (when I was younger). They put up a good facade in the beginning...I follow my gut. Or maybe I have trust issues...I dont know.

.

 

I really understand what you mean!

 

This is my biggest problem with the modern dating world. We get hurt to much, (or have to much hope) and we adapt the games and behavour of the ones that hurted us, (we are avoiding getting hurt). But because of these games, in my case I blew it with a really great girl and ended up hurting her! And I became part of that circel, I really hated.

 

When I look around and see friends how are happy and succesfull with there relationships (because let's face it: this is what we are al looking for in one way or other.). They just don't avoid getting hurt, they just found someone and they jump in to deep unknown.

 

mabey this video can ad up what I try to say:

 

Power of Vulnerability

[USMCHokie]

So would you all agree that this is the same as a guy recognizing that a girl is giving him the runaround and so he decides to play f*ck-f*ck games with her?

 

Acceptable? Or perhaps encouraged?

[CptSaveAho]

So would you all agree that this is the same as a guy recognizing that a girl is giving him the runaround and so he decides to play f*ck-f*ck games with her?

 

Acceptable? Or perhaps encouraged?

 

No shes lying to herself, shes physically attracted to him and there is an "emotional spark" that shes trying to figure out with him

 

Shes just spewing out drama to rationalize her decision to date him again... shes just convincing herself that hes some sort of PUA(projecting)... (which he clearly isnt)

 

People need to realize women LOVE drama, if theres none in their lives they will create it out of thin air....

Edited December 4, 2012 by CptSaveAho

[dasein]

Im pretty sure a guy I went on a date with 2 days ago (didnt want to go but he was persistent) reads PUA because he acts exactly like he does... "You have such pretty eyes" "I love the way you make faces when you tell stories" "You seem to be smarter than most girls"

 

Every attractive, confident man is not a PUA. This man is a case in point. He is the furthest thing from a PUA actually, a natural who gets by on his looks possessing weak seduction skills.

 

You will know you have met a man skilled at seduction when you start craving fast physical contact from someone who may be attractive, but probably no male model, not your usual type, and can't quite put your finger on why, despite him not making any specific moves on you at all, and all physical contact has been "your idea" so far. He will seem to be just so kissable and touchable somehow and extremely interesting. You will think him relatively cool, maybe even shy and unassuming. You will be calling him on the phone to hear more of his voice, think you are having a nice fun chat, and feel youself getting wetter and more flush the whole time. You will find yourself leading the conversation into more risque areas, he will stop you short of phone sex, once more all of this will be "your idea." When you are face to face, you will find it "your idea" to make out in public with him, and the resulting sex will be "your idea" also.

 

He will take some time to slow your response down and basically give you the key out of the cage you are in. He won't really consider you a conquest until he has literally put the key in your hand by telling you no relationship with him is possible in so many words, and watching as you toss away the key and choose him anyway. When you experience a fact pattern similar to this, you -may- have met someone who has studied seduction.

 

It ain't just some hot guy at the gym who tells you you have pretty eyes.

[Estate]

Every attractive, confident man is not a PUA. This man is a case in point. He is the furthest thing from a PUA actually, a natural who gets by on his looks possessing weak seduction skills.

 

You will know you have met a man skilled at seduction when you start craving fast physical contact from someone who may be attractive, but probably no male model, not your usual type, and can't quite put your finger on why, despite him not making any specific moves on you at all, and all physical contact has been "your idea" so far. He will seem to be just so kissable and touchable somehow and extremely interesting. You will think him relatively cool, maybe even shy and unassuming. You will be calling him on the phone to hear more of his voice, think you are having a nice fun chat, and feel youself getting wetter and more flush the whole time. You will find yourself leading the conversation into more risque areas, he will stop you short of phone sex, once more all of this will be "your idea." When you are face to face, you will find it "your idea" to make out in public with him, and the resulting sex will be "your idea" also.

 

He will take some time to slow your response down and basically give you the key out of the cage you are in. He won't really consider you a conquest until he has literally put the key in your hand by telling you no relationship with him is possible in so many words, and watching as you toss away the key and choose him anyway. When you experience a fact pattern similar to this, you -may- have met someone who has studied seduction.

 

It ain't just some hot guy at the gym who tells you you have pretty eyes.

 

To be honest, from the few posts from the OP, I'm pretty sure he's one of those guys who hangs around a lot of PUA forums but in reality actually sucks at it.

[pbjbear]

You will know you have met a man skilled at seduction when you start craving fast physical contact from someone who may be attractive, but probably no male model, not your usual type, and can't quite put your finger on why, despite him not making any specific moves on you at all, and all physical contact has been "your idea" so far. He will seem to be just so kissable and touchable somehow and extremely interesting. You will think him relatively cool, maybe even shy and unassuming. You will be calling him on the phone to hear more of his voice, think you are having a nice fun chat, and feel youself getting wetter and more flush the whole time. You will find yourself leading the conversation into more risque areas, he will stop you short of phone sex, once more all of this will be "your idea." When you are face to face, you will find it "your idea" to make out in public with him, and the resulting sex will be "your idea" also.

 

He will take some time to slow your response down and basically give you the key out of the cage you are in. He won't really consider you a conquest until he has literally put the key in your hand by telling you no relationship with him is possible in so many words, and watching as you toss away the key and choose him anyway. When you experience a fact pattern similar to this, you -may- have met someone who has studied seduction.

 

It ain't just some hot guy at the gym who tells you you have pretty eyes.

 

1) Just because I want to get physical early on doesnt mean I do it. Look at my posts- I dont put out early EVER. I do not have a trusting personality...it doesnt matter how hot, charming, seductive you are I wont

2) The middle bolded part...perhaps I have never met a PUA-er then because Ive never wanted to do that.

3) When a guy says "I dont want a relationship" I immediately go No Contact.

 

Yep I love drama...thats why when the PUA guy texted me a few times last night I ignored every single one of them (sarcasm)

 

Not every woman loves drama. Young girls or those lacking self esteem or maturity, perhaps. PUA attracts people of these qualities

 

I will admit though I have a different personality than many women

Edited December 5, 2012 by pbjbear

[dasein]

2) The middle bolded part...perhaps I have never met a PUA-er then because Ive never wanted to do that.

 

This was my point. If you think every attractive man you meet who compliments you and gives you lines is a PUA, you probably haven't met a real one. There are far fewer men out there who practice seduction than many women think. There isn't a PUA behind every bush or barstool.

[pbjbear]

This was my point. If you think every attractive man you meet who compliments you and gives you lines is a PUA, you probably haven't met a real one. There are far fewer men out there who practice seduction than many women think. There isn't a PUA behind every bush or barstool.

 

Do you practice PUA?

If so-

what have your experiences been like since you started using it? Just curious.

[dasein]

Well, my POV is that there is no "PUA" as one thing, just a seduction skills industry with as many facets as any other industry where people sell their various POVs.

 

But yes, several years ago, I began looking into and practicing more seduction, everything from Byron and Kierkegaard, to many modern sources such as PUA forums and Doc Love. It was immensely beneficial in having more control over my dating/sex life and better sex. One source that opened my eyes is an outdated one I have cited to before, called "The Book of Pook." I don't do NSA, ONS nor ever lie to women, but do find being able to ignite a baseline level of attraction into having a woman go wild with the PDA on first meeting is a very valuable skill in dealing with women. I find there are two poles with women, either "can't get enough of you," or "you essentially don't exist," and prefer having the control and options that come with the former, and avoiding the drama, noise, games and flakiness that come with the latter.

[pbjbear]

Well, my POV is that there is no "PUA" as one thing, just a seduction skills industry with as many facets as any other industry where people sell their various POVs.

 

But yes, several years ago, I began looking into and practicing more seduction, everything from Byron and Kierkegaard, to many modern sources such as PUA forums and Doc Love. It was immensely beneficial in having more control over my dating/sex life and better sex. One source that opened my eyes is an outdated one I have cited to before, called "The Book of Pook." I don't do NSA, ONS nor ever lie to women, but do find being able to ignite a baseline level of attraction into having a woman go wild with the PDA on first meeting is a very valuable skill in dealing with women. I find there are two poles with women, either "can't get enough of you," or "you essentially don't exist," and prefer having the control and options that come with the former, and avoiding the drama, noise, games and flakiness that come with the latter.

 

ehhh youre not the typical PUA user (due to the part I bolded). most men I know use PUA more for that purpose than trying to find someone to make them genuinely happy.

 

What do you mean by options with the former?

[dasein]

ehhh youre not the typical PUA user (due to the part I bolded). most men I know use PUA more for that purpose than trying to find someone to make them genuinely happy.

 

What do you mean by options with the former?

 

1. There is no "typical PUA" just as there is no typical woman reading relationship books or mags. PUA is just a tool conditioned on the POV of whomever is selling the advice, not a "character assessment" or "life plan." The guys you know would be doing something towards their NSA sex getting agenda PUA or no.

 

2. What I mean by options is that there are more for a man who can seduce to choose from that result from 50/50 control when the woman is very attracted to the man. When the woman is lukewarm on the man, dating as a man can be extremely frustrating and crazymaking, the man feels he has little or no control, thus no real option than walk or stay. A man who can seduce has a better chance of changing or negotiating away bad behavior in a woman. Women who are head over heels and thoroughly infatuated are much easier to deal with in relationships. You don't have to listen to endless HR type quizzing and hoop laying when she is infatuated, leading to more peace, quiet and fun as opposed to wrangling and constant push-pull or agenda fitting.

[pbjbear]

Fair enough about the first point.

 

Do you show interest in the women that "act wild for you" though?

 

Nothing wrong with wanting a woman who wants you. I think alot of relationship/dating issues stem from lack of interest on one or both sides. Most of the relationships I observe one person likes the other more than vice versa.

[Sunfire73]

Didn't read all the replies, but if you know he's playing you, why even bother spending time with him again even if it's just to play him back? Isn't your time more worthy of something else?

[Sun Devil]

I think that this thread proves that pua can work on women. It also shows that women are in denial about it thinking that they are above it when in reality, they fall for it

[dasein]

Do you show interest in the women that "act wild for you" though?

 

Most of the relationships I observe one person likes the other more than vice versa.

 

To the first sentence, yes, but there can be problems there. One of the linchpins of seduction for men is to present a strong, consistent masculine presence that the woman feels she can lean on, a solid stable man with a plan, a kind of rock. This means a consistent display of affection that is earned by the woman. Many women aren't used to this, they are used to being fawned on as opposed to having to give to get affection, and are used to less stable, firm men. It can and does cause insecurity issues.

 

These issues are compounded when she feels herself getting deeper and deeper, more emotional, more involved, while he remains kind, affectionate and consistent. A woman who has been well seduced can be fragile in this respect, and it's the next dating issue I must solve in my own life, as I find they start to fracture and implode three-six months in. First the statements of insecurity, then acting out behavior. Then I walk, feeling I deserve better. I am also very cynical about the female emotional manipulative faculty. I find women use insecurity window dressing to manipulate men towards their agenda, and don't respond well at all to this. In essence, I feel offended at insecurity, because I have been a stable rock for them, no question of my loyalty, yet they seem to ignore this in furtherance of their own agenda, and will use all kinds of questionable, manipulative behavior in furtherance of it. That's when I get off the bus after giving a few tries to rectify things onto a different course.

 

To the second point, see the above. I am much more comfortable in the leadership role with having "the upper hand" because I don't abuse it or use it to further some agenda, just to keep things fair while they unfold. I am much better as the dance leader, or cynically, a dictator, just a benevolent one, without being paternalistic. I think many women want me to go on into full on paternalism and dominant control, but that's not me. I want 50/50, and if she will agree to it, can set things up so it is maintained. Getting that agreement is easier said than done though.

Edited December 5, 2012 by dasein

[pbjbear]

I think that this thread proves that pua can work on women. It also shows that women are in denial about it thinking that they are above it when in reality, they fall for it

 

If I fell for it why did I stop seeing him? Why did I, when I told him he gave me a player vibe, ignore his texts that were trying to backpedal things he said on our date that tried to make him look like a different person?

 

In case someone didnt read the entire thread, I told him I didnt think we were a good match and cancelled our date. He texted me asking me why and I said I got a player vibe from him and I trust my instincts. He continued to text me but I ignored them.

 

I do not want to date an alpha male or a player. A guy who has some alpha traits is fine, but a guy who is over 50% alpha....no thanks.

Edited December 5, 2012 by pbjbear

[BS76]

So I know Im really going to stir the pot saying this but here it goes...

 

Im pretty sure a guy I went on a date with 2 days ago (didnt want to go but he was persistent) reads PUA because he acts exactly like he does. He is a personal trainer and super into fitness and good looking. He seems like a player so I didnt want to go on a date with him. I had a good time and he was really trying to butter me up. "You have such pretty eyes" "I love the way you make faces when you tell stories" "You seem to be smarter than most girls" Blah blah blah

 

He spent 20 mins telling me how he participates in fitness model competitions and he trains women who are planning on being in these contests. Dont trust this guy at all- why the heck is he seeing me? I am thin and pretty, but not at the level of beauty he deals with on a daily basis. Someone like him is not all that interested in personality. He also told me his ex had an issue with him flirting while he drank (hes a partier but says he has cut back in the past few years) but said he has never cheated. Then went on to say any guy will cheat in a given situation and he hasnt cheated because he doesnt let himself get into those situations. At the end of our date he kept badgering me to come to his house in a few days to "bake cookies" (I told him I like to bake). Yeaaaaaaah I know what that means. Im pretty sure this guy is a hit it and quit it and is trying to play me. Im not upset nor care about this but I kind of want to mess with him.

 

So fellow PUA followers, what can I do on our next date to mess with him? Think of it as a social experiment. I want to put the few acting lessons I took to good use

 

Nope, not PUA. He did the exact opposite of what they teach, repeatedly. He's just bragging, poorly. My guess, he's a natural and is just doing what's worked in the past: relying on his looks.

[pbjbear]

To the first sentence, yes, but there can be problems there. One of the linchpins of seduction for men is to present a strong, consistent masculine presence that the woman feels she can lean on, a solid stable man with a plan, a kind of rock. This means a consistent display of affection that is earned by the woman. Many women aren't used to this, they are used to being fawned on as opposed to having to give to get affection, and are used to less stable, firm men. It can and does cause insecurity issues.

 

These issues are compounded when she feels herself getting deeper and deeper, more emotional, more involved, while he remains kind, affectionate and consistent. A woman who has been well seduced can be fragile in this respect, and it's the next dating issue I must solve in my own life, as I find they start to fracture and implode three-six months in. First the statements of insecurity, then acting out behavior. Then I walk, feeling I deserve better. I am also very cynical about the female emotional manipulative faculty. I find women use insecurity window dressing to manipulate men towards their agenda, and don't respond well at all to this. In essence, I feel offended at insecurity, because I have been a stable rock for them, no question of my loyalty, yet they seem to ignore this in furtherance of their own agenda, and will use all kinds of questionable, manipulative behavior in furtherance of it. That's when I get off the bus after giving a few tries to rectify things onto a different course.

 

To the second point, see the above. I am much more comfortable in the leadership role with having "the upper hand" because I don't abuse it or use it to further some agenda, just to keep things fair while they unfold. I am much better as the dance leader, or cynically, a dictator, just a benevolent one, without being paternalistic. I think many women want me to go on into full on paternalism and dominant control, but that's not me. I want 50/50, and if she will agree to it, can set things up so it is maintained. Getting that agreement is easier said than done though.

 

Im not sure I follow you...if you act consistent and affectionate Im not sure why they would get insecure.

What is insecurity window dressing?

All men I dated with the upper hand did abuse it so I cant blame women for not liking this. I think most relationships are power struggles. I want 50/50 too but I find most men say they want that but their actions follow more towards them being dominant.

[dasein]

Im not sure I follow you...if you act consistent and affectionate Im not sure why they would get insecure.

What is insecurity window dressing?

 

Many women IME will use "insecurity fishing" to gain power in a relationship. "You seem distant, I seem more into 'us' than you are, you seem hesitant to commit, etc." Have heard these things so often from women, when they are totally out of place in the context of the existing relationship, that they have become transparent in manipulative motive. I am a loyal, diligent, consistent, affectionate BF who will not be bullied or manipulated into an agenda before it's time, and never into an agenda that is plainly unilateral and not subject to negotiation. I don't want to talk about marriage or long term plans when dating someone after only three months, and that's where this insecurity fishing comes from. When they say these things and I have given no reason whatsoever for them to be insecure, it means they are seeking more power in the relationship, and to forward their agenda, using insecurity as window dressing.