j'adore Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 ...which means they would have carried those methods forward into any other R's they entered into. IMO once your spouse falls in love with someone else, your marriage is pretty much gone.
2long Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 Why do you make the assumption that the BS was burning their life away? People can love more than one person at once. There can be great lives, great love, and great life experiences even though you are with someone having an LTR. Nonsense! -ol' 2long (d-day 11 years ago, VLTA lasted 11 years) 1
2long Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 I will just add my own experience to this which of course is anecdotal and may not mean much, but it is my experience. While not quite the same as a long term affair, it is along term relationship, since my wife is aware. Started out as a hotand heavy sexual affair, for many many months. We both realized we were aboutto wreck our homes. We both understood we were not ready, or wanting to ripapart out families, social implactions, the lives we had built, etc.. That was theinevitible next step if we continued on the path we were on. Both of us hadbeen married for 17 years or so, and had built a very comfortable life. Webacked off on the sex. Then my wife found out a few months later. It thenbecame a very strong friendship with sex happening maybe once a month or everytwo months, which is where it stands now. The point is thatour relationship has evolved as all relationships do if they become long term. We both have different positions, as her spouse is not in the same position my spouse is, and I respect that. Do I wish I would met her 20 years ago? Yes. But I didn't, so we make the best of what is. I hadn't heard your story before, so thanks for sharing. There's nothing "real" about it, though, so I'm puzzled by your choice of username, unless you hope 2 convince people (e. g., yourself) that living a lie is worthwhile. -ol' 2long 1
2long Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 The problem isn't necessarily the cheating part but rather the institution of marriage if you ask me. How can you tell someone that you're going to spend the rest of your life with them and remain faithful? Human beings are not monogamous by nature, and facts, statistics back this theory up 100%. You shouldn't cheat on a partner, but you shouldn't make a static promise at a given point in time knowing dawn well that our emotions are dynamic. Marriage works for some but not the majority. We're not licensed drivers, tool-users, or language-speakers "by na2re" either. We learn or strive for these and other things of value. Every person ive ever heard use that non-manogamous na2re argument has done so 2 justify their own selfishness and lack of a moral compass. They were all cheating 2. -ol' 2long
Summer Breeze Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 No big deal! Now she can be doubly assured that it's a fabulous show, but not a comedy! LOL! Triply assured! I love the show too! 1
LoveTKO Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 We're not licensed drivers, tool-users, or language-speakers "by na2re" either. We learn or strive for these and other things of value. Every person ive ever heard use that non-manogamous na2re argument has done so 2 justify their own selfishness and lack of a moral compass. They were all cheating 2. -ol' 2long But learning to drive a car doesn't evoke some innate drive to all of a sudden leave your car at the curb and hop into someone else's Mustang Shelby Super-snake and take it for a spin. We can argue or go back an forth all we want want, but statistics and hard facts are indicative that human beings are anything but monogamous. I'm not saying that cheating doesn't leave complete carnage in its wake.........people still do it knowing full well what the consequences are. And women just as much as men. 1
BetrayedH Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 The problem isn't necessarily the cheating part but rather the institution of marriage if you ask me. How can you tell someone that you're going to spend the rest of your life with them and remain faithful? Human beings are not monogamous by nature, and facts, statistics back this theory up 100%. You shouldn't cheat on a partner, but you shouldn't make a static promise at a given point in time knowing dawn well that our emotions are dynamic. Marriage works for some but not the majority. The cool thing is that besides being outfitted with evolutionary instincts to crave variety, we are also outfitted with a brain. If you don't want to make a marital commitment, then don't. Want out of the one you're in? Have the decency to let your spouse out of their end ofthe bargain as well. Why keep them locked into a lifetime commitment? Because it would inconvenience you. It is pure selfishness and cowardice and the BS pays the price for it for as long as the WS deems it convenient for them. You rob a person of the right to make an informed decision about the rest of their life while you covertly break your own end of the bargain. The longer it goes, the more conscious and disrespectful the decision becomes. The only thing that makes me want to give up atheism is the hope that there is a special place in hell for these people. 7
Furious Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 The cool thing is that besides being outfitted with evolutionary instincts to crave variety, we are also outfitted with a brain. If you don't want to make a marital commitment, then don't. Want out of the one you're in? Have the decency to let your spouse out of their end ofthe bargain as well. Why keep them locked into a lifetime commitment? Because it would inconvenience you. It is pure selfishness and cowardice and the BS pays the price for it for as long as the WS deems it convenient for them. You rob a person of the right to make an informed decision about the rest of their life while you covertly break your own end of the bargain. The longer it goes, the more conscious and disrespectful the decision becomes. The only thing that makes me want to give up atheism is the hope that there is a special place in hell for these people. Brilliant post BH!!! 1
BetrayedH Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Brilliant post BH!!! The compliment is appreciated. The sad thing is the fallacy that these people need to have the basic concept of a committed relationship explained to them. They know what they are doing. I suppose complex justifications serve an effective distraction from facing (and admitting) their faults. 1
LoveTKO Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 The cool thing is that besides being outfitted with evolutionary instincts to crave variety, we are also outfitted with a brain. If you don't want to make a marital commitment, then don't. Want out of the one you're in? Have the decency to let your spouse out of their end ofthe bargain as well. Why keep them locked into a lifetime commitment? Because it would inconvenience you. It is pure selfishness and cowardice and the BS pays the price for it for as long as the WS deems it convenient for them. You rob a person of the right to make an informed decision about the rest of their life while you covertly break your own end of the bargain. The longer it goes, the more conscious and disrespectful the decision becomes. The only thing that makes me want to give up atheism is the hope that there is a special place in hell for these people. I agree. Married people who have affairs are obviously selfish with decision making disorders; I would say that it comprises about half of our population. From a biblical standpoint in case you decide to disavow atheism, sin is sin, and all sinners are judged equally. The only sin that can't be forgiven is under any circumstance is blasphemy.....or being an atheist (Matthew 12:31-32)
frozensprouts Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 about it being humn nature to want to sleep around... i had a prof. once who pointed out two ideas that kind of showed that may not be true... (a) the basic reason behind sex is to procreate, produce offspring, and have them survive until adulthood to pass the genes on to the next generation...there is benefit to a father staying with the mother of his offspring so that he could help feed and protect them- a higher chanvce they would reach adulthood and pass on the genes (b) having a lot of sexual partners may actually put a human at a disadvantage, as it increases the chance they'll be exposed to diseases, that, in the past, were deadly as for the idea that " it's natural to want to sleep around, so therefore that somehow makes it okay":laugh::laugh: when you think about it, the sole natural purposes of sex are i. procreation and ii. bonding the parents together to raise the offspring to adulthood....having sex with someone and preventing conception would seem to be pretty "unnatural", yet people do that all he time... 3
frozensprouts Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 I agree. Married people who have affairs are obviously selfish with decision making disorders; I would say that it comprises about half of our population. From a biblical standpoint in case you decide to disavow atheism, sin is sin, and all sinners are judged equally. The only sin that can't be forgiven is under any circumstance is blasphemy.....or being an atheist (Matthew 12:31-32) using genetics and moral relativism to explain behavior is just another version of " don't blame me...the devil made me do it"... 5
BetrayedH Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 From a biblical standpoint in case you decide to disavow atheism, sin is sin, and all sinners are judged equally. The only sin that can't be forgiven is under any circumstance is blasphemy.....or being an atheist (Matthew 12:31-32) Glad we got that cleared up. Biblical quotes mean a lot to people that believe the bible was written by...people.
Decorative Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Glad we got that cleared up. Biblical quotes mean a lot to people that believe the bible was written by...people. That made me snort. And I always like knowing I am going to hell for my lack of belief. It would be scary, if I thought it existed. 2
frozensprouts Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Glad we got that cleared up. Biblical quotes mean a lot to people that believe the bible was written by...people. I do agree that the bible was written by people, but there are some basic truths in it that are pretty good rules to live by... (a) don't commit adultery (b) don't steal © treat others the way you'd like to be treated (d) don't covet thy neighbors ass ( which, I assume, meant "donkey"- but I could be wrong...I have no problem with this rule, as I've seen my neighbors rear ( he doesn't have a donkey) and it's defiantly not something I "covet") in short, don't act like a knob and your life will go a lot more smoothly 2
Spark1111 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 But learning to drive a car doesn't evoke some innate drive to all of a sudden leave your car at the curb and hop into someone else's Mustang Shelby Super-snake and take it for a spin. We can argue or go back an forth all we want want, but statistics and hard facts are indicative that human beings are anything but monogamous. I'm not saying that cheating doesn't leave complete carnage in its wake.........people still do it knowing full well what the consequences are. And women just as much as men. I wonder why everyone believes humans are not monogamous? Humans are amongst the 3% of all species on the planet that pair bond, often for life, and for some really proven health and well-being benefits. Hey, we don't slay other clans with jaw bones anymore either. If we were truly not monogamous, why are so many spending so much time seeking to find, land, keep and love...the "ONE?" Other polyamory species could care less about the one; anyone will do. The majority of humans are not sexually promiscuous. Within the confines of a long-term relationship, I think people grow bored, complacent and mistake the sexual attraction to another (novelty) as a cure for what ails them. All humans are curious about sexual novelty. They should be. But only 50% act on that curiousity. The other 50% do not. And if we are not monogamoun by nature, then why do so many beg to reconcile following dday? We cannot imagine life without our pair-bond. 5
Spark1111 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 I do agree that the bible was written by people, but there are some basic truths in it that are pretty good rules to live by... (a) don't commit adultery (b) don't steal © treat others the way you'd like to be treated (d) don't covet thy neighbors ass ( which, I assume, meant "donkey"- but I could be wrong...I have no problem with this rule, as I've seen my neighbors rear ( he doesn't have a donkey) and it's defiantly not something I "covet") in short, don't act like a knob and your life will go a lot more smoothly haha! Even shorter, FS is the tenet of most religions: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Pretty simple. 1
j'adore Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 It boggles my mind even MORE how an OW can be so completely idiotic as to waste 20 years of her life on a cheating liar. Talk about no self esteem, self respect or pride. But there are some who waste a lifetime married to one, what is the difference?
j'adore Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 What does that have to do with what you quoted? If a cheater isn't able to communicate in the first R, they'll f up the next one too is the point I was making. Therefore, it's moot if they "fall in love" in another R. That one will be roadkill in no time. But who says they won't communicate in the second relationship?
j'adore Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 There's a big difference between a man falling in love and "falling in love" with massive boosts to the ego provided by a lonely OW woman who worships the ground on which you walk. The need for constant ego boosting doesn't equal love. Love for himself? Yes. If that makes you feel better believing that, so be it.
MissBee Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 What does that have to do with what you quoted? If a cheater isn't able to communicate in the first R, they'll f up the next one too is the point I was making. Therefore, it's moot if they "fall in love" in another R. That one will be roadkill in no time. Ditto. I find it bizarre when someone says their MM is split-self or has some other behavioral/communication problem where he avoids conflict, but make it seem like somehow a new woman will change this. No a new woman won't. If your problem is behavioral or how you deal with conflict...then you'll do it no matter who you're with, as it's about you and not another person. Falling in love is hardly the point. It's evident that falling in love is the easy part; however, making a relationship work which is where those skills of communication, being self-aware, not having a "split" that hinders your responses to life etc. come in. Falling in love takes no skills...having a decent relationship that's sustainable does though 4
Spark1111 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 But there are some who waste a lifetime married to one' date=' what is the difference?[/quote'] Shared community assets, health insurance, children, extended family, traditions, a home and the rights to it all. For the same reasons MM cannot divorce as they will give up half of everything, MW will not leave for the very same reasons I would guess. 4
frozensprouts Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 But who says they won't communicate in the second relationship? maybe they will if ( and that's a pretty huge "if") they learn new behavior patterns and habits, and if someone has spent their life living and acting a certain way, it can be very difficult to break those patterns... That's why so many betrayed spouses insist on some form of counseling for the marriage/wayward spouse...they need support and assistnace in making that change... it's just like you wouldn't say to a heroin addict " stop using heroin" and expect them to instantly stop the drug use and have a reasonable expectation that they could change...but with some professional help, maybe they could... personally, I'd rather look at is as a pattern of having poor problem solving and communication habits, because with some help and support, a person can learn new and better ways of doing things...if , instead, one chooses to chalk it up to " the marriage being bad", then what's to say that person would fall back into old behavior patterns when things get tough in he new relationship? 4
MissBee Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 But there are some who waste a lifetime married to one' date=' what is the difference?[/quote'] Neither are that much better; however, I'd argue that if you're married and you have kids, a house, family members, a whole network and life, you have a greater incentive to put up with or try to forgive your spouse. If you just met this person, know their issues, are not married to them, have no kids or familial ties...why bother? A BS is already aboard the ship so to speak and it has sailed...an OW is either not aboard yet or aboard but it hasn't left the harbor or it's not too far from shore where she can change her mind. Me for example, I've always said, if I have a boyfriend who cheated I'd not forgive him. As I am not already contracted to him, we most likely won't have kids, a house, etc together. I have not already committed myself to forever...so why would I stick around then? Whereas if he were my husband, while he'd probably get the boot as well, if I went so far as to marry him and invest that much in him and we have kids and all that, I have A LOT more incentive to try to fix it. With a bf, I can detach a lot easier, likewise if you're just an OW dating this MM, esp if you're single...why stick around? 3
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