Long term affairs

[beenburned]

I read on different boards. Today the OW were bragging about how long they had been in their affair without having a d-day.(some single, some married)

 

One MOW had been in hers 40 years until the MM died. Another OW 20 years, but most 7/8 years.

 

They were proud of how they diligently protected the MM, his BW, and family by keeping the affair secret!

 

It boggles my mind that they(MM & OW/MOW) think nothing about wasting the BS's life away!(for their own selfish purposes)

 

I don't know of any spouses that would want to be married to a long term cheater. What are your thoughts on long term affairs?

[Realist3]

I read on different boards. Today the OW were bragging about how long they had been in their affair without having a d-day.(some single, some married)

 

One MOW had been in hers 40 years until the MM died. Another OW 20 years, but most 7/8 years.

 

They were proud of how they diligently protected the MM, his BW, and family by keeping the affair secret!

 

It boggles my mind that they(MM & OW/MOW) think nothing about wasting the BS's life away!(for their own selfish purposes)

 

I don't know of any spouses that would want to be married to a long term cheater. What are your thoughts on long term affairs?

 

Why do you make the assumption that the BS was burning their life away?

 

People can love more than one person at once. There can be great lives, great love, and great life experiences even though you are with someone having an LTR.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Why do you make the assumption that the BS was burning their life away?

 

People can love more than one person at once. There can be great lives, great love, and great life experiences even though you are with someone having an LTR.

I sure as #$^ wouldn't want to be in a marriage where I can't even be sure my kids are my own or be at risk of getting an STD.... I'd rather be single. I wonder how much love these guys get from their wives...probably not so happy of a relationship. "She just doesn't like sex"..yeaaahhh right.

[TigerCub]

I read on different boards. Today the OW were bragging about how long they had been in their affair without having a d-day.(some single, some married)

 

One MOW had been in hers 40 years until the MM died. Another OW 20 years, but most 7/8 years.

 

They were proud of how they diligently protected the MM, his BW, and family by keeping the affair secret!

 

It boggles my mind that they(MM & OW/MOW) think nothing about wasting the BS's life away!(for their own selfish purposes)

 

I don't know of any spouses that would want to be married to a long term cheater. What are your thoughts on long term affairs?

 

I don't think anyone wants a cheater at all.

Its not like people get married thinking "Ooooh, any day now, they'll cheat and it'll all come together!!"

 

I'm going to ask something and I truthfully mean no disrespect.

 

If I'm recalling correctly, your husband cheated on you multiple times (If I'm mistaken, my apologies and please disregard the rest).

 

The question is:

What's the difference? Is 1 long term affair any worse than many short ones?

 

As for the people that are proud to have kept this secret that long - honestly, if that's all they can be proud of at the end of it all, then that's pretty pathetic.

[Decorative]

Why do you make the assumption that the BS was burning their life away?

 

People can love more than one person at once. There can be great lives, great love, and great life experiences even though you are with someone having an LTR.

 

People should know if they are in a situation where a person "loves" more than one person at a time.

 

In my experience - the answer has been that the wayward spouse loves them self more than either other point of the triangle. And people should have a headsup on that.

[Realist3]

I sure as #$^ wouldn't want to be in a marriage where I can't even be sure my kids are my own or be at risk of getting an STD.... I'd rather be single. I wonder how much love these guys get from their wives...probably not so happy of a relationship. "She just doesn't like sex"..yeaaahhh right.

 

Hard to say. Relationships are very complex things. There was an interesting opinion piece this weekend in the NYTimes that discussed some of this.

 

New Love - A Short Shelf Life - NYTimes.com

 

WHY, then, is the natural shift from passionate to companionate love often such a letdown? Because, although we may not realize it, we are biologically hard-wired to crave variety. Variety and novelty affect the brain in much the same way that drugs do — that is, they trigger activity that involves the neurotransmitter dopamine, as do pharmacological highs.

Evolutionary biologists believe that sexual variety is adaptive, and that it evolved to prevent incest and inbreeding in ancestral environments. The idea is that when our spouse becomes as familiar to us as a sibling — when we’ve become family — we cease to be sexually attracted to each other.

[Ninja'sHusband]

The idea is that when our spouse becomes as familiar to us as a sibling — when we’ve become family — we cease to be sexually attracted to each other.

Speak for yourself. Even now, as sick as it is, I'm still attracted to my cheating wife, after 18 years together (14 married)

Ooh, appropriate song!

[Decorative]

Hard to say. Relationships are very complex things. There was an interesting opinion piece this weekend in the NYTimes that discussed some of this.

 

New Love - A Short Shelf Life - NYTimes.com

 

That article is interesting. I've read similar before, and many social psychologists explain the stages of love and attraction along the way to a deep and mature love.

 

 

Dr Helen Fisher - Biological Anthropologist - Home Page She does an amazing job of explaining the stages and the benefits.

 

After 18 years,my spouse and I have always had an active physical connection. not much has changed from the early days, not even during the affair timeframe. That pounding frantic feeling is gone- but that look across the room that makes me want to jump his bones? That's still right there.

 

Only someone stuck in perpetual adolescence/not very developed would seek that consistent rush of new love, over the amazing and deep connection of being truly connected. Because if you do that right? You can have a physical connection that will blow your socks off, combined with a deep and peaceful sense of love and bonding.

 

And I'd take that every day of the week.

[meandmyself]

Why do you make the assumption that the BS was burning their life away?

 

People can love more than one person at once. There can be great lives, great love, and great life experiences even though you are with someone having an LTR.

 

Nothing can be great on living a lie...

[Realist3]

I will just add my own experience to this which of course is anecdotal and may not mean much, but it is my experience. While not quite the same as a long term affair, it is along term relationship, since my wife is aware.

 

Started out as a hotand heavy sexual affair, for many many months. We both realized we were aboutto wreck our homes. We both understood we were not ready, or wanting to ripapart out families, social implactions, the lives we had built, etc.. That was theinevitible next step if we continued on the path we were on. Both of us hadbeen married for 17 years or so, and had built a very comfortable life. Webacked off on the sex. Then my wife found out a few months later. It thenbecame a very strong friendship with sex happening maybe once a month or everytwo months, which is where it stands now.

 

The point is thatour relationship has evolved as all relationships do if they become long term. We both have different positions, as her spouse is not in the same position my spouse is, and I respect that. Do I wish I would met her 20 years ago? Yes. But I didn't, so we make the best of what is.

[LoveTKO]

The problem isn't necessarily the cheating part but rather the institution of marriage if you ask me. How can you tell someone that you're going to spend the rest of your life with them and remain faithful? Human beings are not monogamous by nature, and facts, statistics back this theory up 100%. You shouldn't cheat on a partner, but you shouldn't make a static promise at a given point in time knowing dawn well that our emotions are dynamic. Marriage works for some but not the majority.

[Spark1111]

I read on different boards. Today the OW were bragging about how long they had been in their affair without having a d-day.(some single, some married)

 

One MOW had been in hers 40 years until the MM died. Another OW 20 years, but most 7/8 years.

 

They were proud of how they diligently protected the MM, his BW, and family by keeping the affair secret!

 

It boggles my mind that they(MM & OW/MOW) think nothing about wasting the BS's life away!(for their own selfish purposes)

 

I don't know of any spouses that would want to be married to a long term cheater. What are your thoughts on long term affairs?

 

You aren't doing your children any great service by sacrificing a loving relationship with your AP while you go through the motions with their other parent.

 

Your children will grow to go through the motions with their spouses as your most important teaching tool is NOT what you say, or provide, it is how you act. You are the primary role-model.

 

How you handle, or NOT, situations, relationships, conflict is exactly how they will grow up to do so.

 

If you do not love or respect your spouse to stay faithful to them, then hopefully, you will love and respect your child's parent enough to tell them and set them free to find a loving relationship of their own.

 

Don't they DESERVE what you and your Ap are experiencing? Why not, by telling the truth, give them the freedom to seek it?

 

Is it money? Well, that's selfish. You married your spouse and had children with them. Courts are becoming fairer these days. You split the assets and the the time with your children. Pretty fair.

 

If you choose to love a MAP with children, then you should be willing to love those children too, at least during the 50% of the time you will have them.

 

As long as you are in a long-term affair, your relationship with your spouse has NO chance of improving...NONE. Your emotional resources, your time, your intimacy and your heart are always with another.

 

One last note: Are you afraid that if you wre to commit to your affair partner, it would not be as illicit? As fun? As thrilling as it is now?

 

Do you not want to envision a real relationship because it too would eventually grow mundane and take effort all all relationships due over time?

 

Sometimes, I think, yes? What else could the possible payoff be to see occasionally someone who is committed to someone else for YEARS.

[Artie Lang]

Realist, i seriously don't know what kind of dynamic you and your wife have in your marriage, but i can certainly tell you that most couples don't see matrimony like you do.

 

sure you can come to be quite fond of someone else.....come to love them even. but if you are decieving your spouse and following your own set of rules, unbeknownst to her/him- that is WRONG!

 

the way you tell it, your wife must know what you're doing, but decides to remain silent for whatever reason. you've been clear to her that you are capable of cheating on her and she seems ok with it. that's NOT what the majority of spouses would do. that's why your claims make no sense whatsoever.....your situation is an anomaly.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Artie Lang

[Summer Breeze]

Well I do believe karma exists and while the WS is going to the OW/OM for sex, he/she is always going back home to live his/her life with the real family and I guess that needs to be very painful... they will never be more than the Other one...

 

And you know this from your vast experience as an OW?

 

I need to apologize because I don't want that to sound as horrible as it did but everyone is trying to make the point that someone can't give accurate advice because he has no experience in a certain area of the A. I was going to make the point that many BS offer advice to OW and many OW offer great advice to BS. Many never experience both sides. I responded to your post but the point is directed at the discussion and not at you.

[cocorico]

Well I do believe karma exists and while the WS is going to the OW/OM for sex, he/she is always going back home to live his/her life with the real family and I guess that needs to be very painful... they will never be more than the Other one...

 

There is a myth on these boards that has been repeated so many times it is accepted as gospel, which claims that "if he's going to leave, he will leave quickly" - within weeks, or at most, months. These claims insist that if an A lasts for years, he'll never leave.

 

And yet the real examples on these boards of cases where the MM did leave the M for a FTR with the OW were almost always after years of the A. Which makes sense - unless someone was dead-set on leaving the M anyway, they're likely to want to think very carefully before they "throw away" their family life / security for the kids, etc. they need to get to know the OP very well to be sure it's not just a fling, and they need to be happy enough that they will enjoy sufficient support from family, friends, and those who matter to them in their new R.

 

Like anybody dating, an OW has the option to remain in the R until such time as she wants it to progress to another level, at which point - like anyone else dating - she needs to establish whether her partner shares her interest in moving the R to another level (which may mean leaving the M) or not, and whether - like for any other person dating - that would signal the end of the R for her. Some are happy to continue as things are, perhaps still hoping things may change; others are not; and others find their partners enthusiastic about making the changes too.

 

Plus of course there are OW who only want a PTR.

[meandmyself]

There is a myth on these boards that has been repeated so many times it is accepted as gospel, which claims that "if he's going to leave, he will leave quickly" - within weeks, or at most, months. These claims insist that if an A lasts for years, he'll never leave.

 

And yet the real examples on these boards of cases where the MM did leave the M for a FTR with the OW were almost always after years of the A. Which makes sense - unless someone was dead-set on leaving the M anyway, they're likely to want to think very carefully before they "throw away" their family life / security for the kids, etc. they need to get to know the OP very well to be sure it's not just a fling, and they need to be happy enough that they will enjoy sufficient support from family, friends, and those who matter to them in their new R.

 

Like anybody dating, an OW has the option to remain in the R until such time as she wants it to progress to another level, at which point - like anyone else dating - she needs to establish whether her partner shares her interest in moving the R to another level (which may mean leaving the M) or not, and whether - like for any other person dating - that would signal the end of the R for her. Some are happy to continue as things are, perhaps still hoping things may change; others are not; and others find their partners enthusiastic about making the changes too.

 

Plus of course there are OW who only want a PTR.

 

Statistically if a MM does not leave his wife in the 1st year within the affair they rarely leave... Anyway my point was that is not nice to brag in a forum thread about how they are being able to deceive another person for a long time... Karma exist and when I think the BS is the biggest victim in this game ... it is my beleive that very often the OM/OW are (to another level) victims as well as they are used as sex toys by the WS... (Not generalizing, they can be many different stories but the truth is that most of the cases is like this when the MM does not leave his wife )

[LoveTKO]

All of what you say is factually true. But you have an equal chance of NOT being cheated on. Imagine that. I personally do not subscribe to, well...the media reports everyone is doing it, so I will be fatalistic on the issue of marriage.

 

Fidelity is a choice, as is infidelity.

 

I don't think high-blood pressure, traffic, cancer-diagnoses are something I have control over.

 

But, my decision to remain faithful to my spouse? That is something I do have control over.

 

 

Not if I really cared for them.

 

 

Spark...I agree with you. We all have control over our actions, but let me just tell you from experience, I have have seen several "good" people, individuals with a supposed high moral compass slip up and cheat on their spouses. People cheat because something is not being fulfilled in a relationship. Combine that void with meeting someone attractive from the opposite sex, and then venture into this insidious process in which both parties take it a step further over the course of months, sometimes years........it can happen, and it's a stealthier process than you think.

[MissBee]

I read on different boards. Today the OW were bragging about how long they had been in their affair without having a d-day.(some single, some married)

 

One MOW had been in hers 40 years until the MM died. Another OW 20 years, but most 7/8 years.

 

They were proud of how they diligently protected the MM, his BW, and family by keeping the affair secret!

 

It boggles my mind that they(MM & OW/MOW) think nothing about wasting the BS's life away!(for their own selfish purposes)

 

I don't know of any spouses that would want to be married to a long term cheater. What are your thoughts on long term affairs?

 

I wonder how one can have no idea your spouse is cheating for 40 years. This is not a judgment btw, saying you're so stupid for not knowing, it's just very mind boggling. I'd like to think that I'd have some idea in 40 years.

 

But if one has noooo clue and is happy...then I guess their life wasn't really wasted. They lived a happy lie. Which wasn't right either...but I guess ignorance was bliss in that case. But I do wonder how many, after such LTAs, really don't know or suspect but prefer not to know? There are people like that. Certainly in the culture I'm from, OW are often tolerated so long as she knows her place and doesn't interfere...and a 40 yr OW who protects the secret I guess isn't making herself a public nuisance...so in that case I imagine some women from my culture would be fine with the situation if they only suspected but didn't get proof...or who suspected but felt like they didn't want to upset the apple cart, so he can do as he wishes as long as he still treats her well more or less. Reminds me of my mom, even as a child I remember my dad would behave very suspiciously while conducting his As, my sister and I would take notice, so when my mom says she just thought xyz I'm truly alarmed. Is it that she just mentally blocked his behavior under a cloud of denial, is she just oblivious? Because even as children my sister and I registered that something was not right about his carrying on, so it seems bizarre that his adult, wife, would not see anything wrong. I don't know...

 

In my own experience I barely lasted 2 years in the A, so I have no clue how I'd keep up one for 5, 8, 10, 20, 40 years! Gives me a headache to think of it. That would be a waste of my life personally. Maybe if I were over a certain age I'd see the sense in it, but at this stage in life, nope.

[MissBee]

The problem isn't necessarily the cheating part but rather the institution of marriage if you ask me. How can you tell someone that you're going to spend the rest of your life with them and remain faithful? Human beings are not monogamous by nature, and facts, statistics back this theory up 100%. You shouldn't cheat on a partner, but you shouldn't make a static promise at a given point in time knowing dawn well that our emotions are dynamic. Marriage works for some but not the majority.

 

People who are not married can also be in long term monogamous relationships...

 

So when you have a girlfriend, is it automatically an open relationship? Or do you expect faithfulness?

 

In any case...if you make a promise that you can't keep, just say you're sorry but you can't keep it. Cheating IS the problem, not marriage, because even non-monogamous people have a concept about betrayal and cheating. Lying and sneaking around and going behind someone's back...which is what cheating on anything is: cheating on a test, cheating on taxes, cheating on your spouse etc. THAT's what's bad...it's not changing your mind and saying you don't want to be monogamous anymore. It's changing your mind and lying about it.

 

I have no idea how the two are conflated. No one has to get married or be monogamous if they don't want to. If you don't want to, find someone who agrees OR if you thought you wanted to but didn't...then be forthright at that point.

[Furious]

People who are not married can also be in long term monogamous relationships...

 

So when you have a girlfriend, is it automatically an open relationship? Or do you expect faithfulness?

 

In any case...if you make a promise that you can't keep, just say you're sorry but you can't keep it. Cheating IS the problem, not marriage, because even non-monogamous people have a concept about betrayal and cheating. Lying and sneaking around and going behind someone's back...which is what cheating on anything is: cheating on a test, cheating on taxes, cheating on your spouse etc. THAT's what's bad...it's not changing your

mind and saying you don't want to be monogamous anymore. It's changing your mind and lying about it.

 

 

I have no idea how the two are conflated. No one has to get married or be monogamous if they don't want to. If you don't want to, find someone who

agrees OR if you thought you wanted to but didn't...then be forthright at

that point.

 

 

In my situation, it was the lies that hurt me more than the actual affair.

 

I understand that people fall out of love, that not all relationships last.

 

I would never want to spend my life with someone who didn't love me or that I didn't love them anymore.

 

Cheating steals your reality, that's what really hurts.

[beenburned]

TigerCub,

 

You asked why I thought my H's brief cheating(3 ONS with OW he met during work) in the early years of our marriage, wasn't as bad as someone who had a LTA for many years.

 

H's ONS were all for sex only.(He was very immature) I assume if someone has a LTA for many years they must have fallen in love with their affair partner. I wouldn't want to be married to someone who loves another person.

 

H's investment of our time or money was zero, as they all happened during regular working hours at their place of business. I assume in LTAs the spouse invests lots of time, energy, and money to keep the OW happy. I wouldn't want to tie up my money, investments,and retirement on someone who was spending it on someone else.

 

Someone else asked why did I assume the WS wasted the BW's life by cheating on her for many years.

 

For me personally, I would never stay with a spouse who would not be faithful to me long term. I want a spouse who has my best interest at heart and who I know I can trust. Life is too short to waste on tons of lies and a fake reality.

 

For the couples that decide on open marriages or swinging, I have no problem.

As they discussed the plan openly and honestly, and both spouses agreed to this lifestyle.

[beenburned]

MissBee,

 

I think the kind of people who have LTAs must have a profession where they travel a lot for their job.(to other states or even other countries)

 

It reminded me of that book "The Pilot's Wife", where the H had a whole separate life when he was away from his family working.

 

Or the TV anchorman that traveled his whole career, and when he died his wife found out he had a LT mistress, with a separate house.

[beenburned]

Alice,

 

The 40 year MOW once wrote a long thread on why she could never leave her marriage to marry her MM.

 

I personally think she was just using them both to get everything she thought she was entitled to.

[Decorative]

Spark...I agree with you. We all have control over our actions, but let me just tell you from experience, I have have seen several "good" people, individuals with a supposed high moral compass slip up and cheat on their spouses. People cheat because something is not being fulfilled in a relationship. Combine that void with meeting someone attractive from the opposite sex, and then venture into this insidious process in which both parties take it a step further over the course of months, sometimes years........it can happen, and it's a stealthier process than you think.

 

You should read some Pittman, Glass and Vaughn.

 

Quite often? The problem with the relationship is the cheater's issues, not the marriage. The spouse that is giving more to the relationship is actually more likely to be the betrayed spouse, not the wayward. Unbelievable, right? Totally true.

 

A good place to read is Frank Pittman's summary on affairs that was published in Psychology Today. It's online, and is a summary of his first book. It was last peer reviewed for accuracy last week.

 

It's eye opening, to say the least.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Decorative

[beenburned]

Decorative,

 

Great authors with many years of experience in their field!