pbjbear Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I thought PUA tactics aren't supposed to work on women? Aren't they cheesy and lame? They are but many women fall for it. My mother once told me "Men think with their sight thats why they drool over hot women. Women think with their ears so thats why they drool when a man sweet talks her" or something like that. So true. I look at what a man's actions, not what he says.
aed Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 @ pbjbear You can;t play a player, you can toy with him. But he wil not care if you don't sleep with him (he will say he does, but trust me, they don't) Also playing games with men, and the ones that go through with it, are the nice guys who hope to impresse you. A player and specialy a PUA wont jump your loops. That is lession 1 in seducing women! Edit: I'm sorry but al your points and post should be motivations for men to go in to PUA.
Anela Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 For the same reason I "hate" companies and individuals that make money out of predatory and dishonest marketing aimed at what we'd consider "easy marks" like the very elderly. Even though I'd never fall for them. I hope. Me, too. I've had issues with my self-esteem, and was messed around by one person when I was more vulnerable, and too trusting at the time (usually, I'm too reserved). I don't like the idea of anyone having these guys come along and mess with them, in order to give themselves a boost and maybe get laid. "Predatory" is the right word. (I wasn't "pumped and dumped" by the guy I mentioned. I was getting out into the world a little more after recovering from agoraphobia, trying to be brave and get to know people, date, etc. I made the mistake of not paying attention to the red flags, and my confidence was iffy - but I cut contact several times. Just not soon enough, and long enough.)
aed Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Lots of people fall for the cheesy and lame. Look at all the guys who buy PUA "courses" and stuff. Yeah but the claim it works. Here are women that say it doesn't work but are showing that it does work!
Estate Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 I think there's a lot of folks jumping to conclusions without understanding the things they are talking about. The Game is a book... it has all the ups and downs and drama to draw you in. It is a story, not a guide to picking up girls. A lot of the guys in the book did not come off well, even the "PUA guys" acknowledge that. But it helped sell a STORY! As far as PUA goes, even if you go to some of the forums, there is a lot of bad advice on there. A lot of guys who relaise they can make a quick buck preying on guys insecurities and even more guys offering advice without quite "getting it" let alone being actually good with girls themselves. Therefore, the forums are hit and miss, some good information, a lot of bad. So even though I've read up on PUA and believe in elements of it, there is so much bad information out there and so many creepy guys involved it just makes the whole thing look really bad. Here's the thing. Guys who are not naturally getting dates every week make a lot of mistakes when they DO get dates, some just can't get any at all even if they are otherwise good guys and have good looks. It just happens. A lot of the info from PUA helps these guys. It helped me figure out some of the ways I might act in some situations or how I might react to certain things or how easily I might get hung up on a particular girl and let the attraction just disappear as I went from being a cool guy to just chasing after the girl. This type of stuff is great IMO. It helps guys to be more attractive, make less mistakes and be better guys for women to date. The flip side is that there is a lot of "scripted material" out there which is ridiculous. There's trends telling guys to act inappropirately and be complete douchebags and I agree, this is not good but I think this is born out of guys just not getting it. Its like they live in this weird "pick up world" where social norms no longer apply to them and every interaction with a girl can be broken down into some sort of video game. Life is not like that. Some guys get it, some guys don't. On the whole, if a guy can pick this stuff up, spot his dating mistakes, correct them and still come out a socially normal person and not looking to screw women over then it is a positive thing for both him and the women he meets. If he just thinks he's some weird mystic pickup magician guy after readin that book (which is VERY dated now in terms of material) then yeah, its bad for everyone involved, such is life. On the other hand you can tell a guy read "The Secret" and make him believe that if he just "is positive" the world will magically throw the girl of his dreams into his lap without making any positive steps to improve upon things which might turn his situation around... which to be honest, is a total crock and does such a dis-service to people who believe in it. Successful people work hard for what they want. If someone simply wants a girlfriend, instead of shooting for fish in an empty barrell, why is it a bad thing if he tries to find his flaws, correct them and meet the girl of his dreams? 1
Eddie Edirol Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 How consensual is it really if he had to lie and play tricks to get it?[/quoteD] The woman had to willingly open up her legs and get aroused, that is consensual. Just because you dont like the methods used to get it to happen, doesnt make it less consensual. Granted, I never saw getting dates as that big of a problem for the average guy. What I mean by average is reasonably attractive, clean, has a job, decent morals and values. Heres the basics that many homebody guys now dont know. Because they have friends that dont know. The basics being, clean up, get out your moms house, and get a job that makes you self sufficient. Theres alot of dissillusiuonal men that believe they should be able to find love when they live with their mom, dont have a job, and dont shower. Its the same degree of dissillusion that Verhrzn has thinking she's ugly, when shes actually cute as hell. But the average guy still has problems maintaining relationships because of lack of knowledge about how women work. Sometimes one has to do research to find out how to fix that.
Estate Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 Heres the basics that many homebody guys now dont know. Because they have friends that dont know. The basics being, clean up, get out your moms house, and get a job that makes you self sufficient. Theres alot of dissillusiuonal men that believe they should be able to find love when they live with their mom, dont have a job, and dont shower. Its the same degree of dissillusion that Verhrzn has thinking she's ugly, when shes actually cute as hell. But the average guy still has problems maintaining relationships because of lack of knowledge about how women work. Sometimes one has to do research to find out how to fix that. Very true. But sometimes guys have it all together but still just get frustrated not getting dates or just not meeting "the one". We're all conditioned to think that all you need to do is take care of yourself, get your education, get that good job and be successful and you'll have your pick of the best girls out there. It's just not true. Maybe for some it is but not every guy. We've all seen the guy who "has it all" and is successful but hasn't met that girl. We've also seen the guys who seem like losers and d'bags and they get the hot girl.... WHY? Well *some* of this PUA stuff tackles these issues. Its not enough to think being successful or clean will make girls just land in your lap, they won't. You have to actively get out there and meet girls and KNOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT to attract the right kind of women. A lot of "successful guys" don't focus any time on this, they think the money and status is enough and it's not. On the other hand the loser probably didn't focus on his career or anything else at all... but he knows how to work a social circle and be attractive to girls. Its all about a balance.... you want to be that successful guy but you can't be naive enough to think that alone makes everything else fall into place. This is where so many guys get it wrong and are frustrated by it.
dasein Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 What industry are you talking about? The publishing industry? Sorry, but that's not a very strong analogy. I'm talking about the female relationship and marriage advice industry mickleb, others and myself discussed in several posts to this thread. I made up an acronym for it to demonstrate how silly trying to cram a whole diverse industry selling diverse POVs under one label is. My post is crystal clear and a thoroughly apt analogy. Publishing industry? :rolleyes:
Imajerk17 Posted December 4, 2012 Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Well-said Estate. This and your post on this thread right before this one. If you are a guy and you are not having results with women and you want to, you gotta figure out why and correct it, and this isn't easy to do. Especially because many women go primarily by "chemistry"--which is something many of us guys don't really "get". For one thing, as Estate pointed out, "chemistry" has surprisingly little to do with having an impressive resume or even being a good person or having your life together and a bunch of hobbies, or even "looks". If you don't believe me, read the threads written by the women on here. (I'm not hating on women by the way. Men go primarily by "looks", which is such a shallow and illogical a way to pick out a partner, but hey, it's how we are wired.) And if you as a guy can't spark that feeling of "chemistry" in a woman, then dating probably will be a rough ride for you. You'll be taking out women who won't see you again afterwards, and who will end up with someone else, very often someone who doesn't have nearly as much going for him as you do. THIS is why men turn to the PUA Community. Not because we want to trick you into sleeping with us but simply because we want more power and choice in our dating lives. Which if we are good people, we will use this newfound power ethically. And for many guys, the Community is the best option. (Sorry Taramere, but just taking up a bunch of interesting hobbies or pressing our friends for intros doesn't really work. You have to learn new social skills and practice talking to people in the meanwhile, even if you start off really awkward at it.) I do wish you women on here would get this. A few of you seem to though. Very true. But sometimes guys have it all together but still just get frustrated not getting dates or just not meeting "the one". We're all conditioned to think that all you need to do is take care of yourself, get your education, get that good job and be successful and you'll have your pick of the best girls out there. It's just not true. Maybe for some it is but not every guy. We've all seen the guy who "has it all" and is successful but hasn't met that girl. We've also seen the guys who seem like losers and d'bags and they get the hot girl.... WHY? Well *some* of this PUA stuff tackles these issues. Its not enough to think being successful or clean will make girls just land in your lap, they won't. You have to actively get out there and meet girls and KNOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT to attract the right kind of women. A lot of "successful guys" don't focus any time on this, they think the money and status is enough and it's not. On the other hand the loser probably didn't focus on his career or anything else at all... but he knows how to work a social circle and be attractive to girls. Its all about a balance.... you want to be that successful guy but you can't be naive enough to think that alone makes everything else fall into place. This is where so many guys get it wrong and are frustrated by it. Edited December 4, 2012 by Imajerk17 1
Eddie Edirol Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 We're all conditioned to think that all you need to do is take care of yourself, get your education, get that good job and be successful and you'll have your pick of the best girls out there. It's just not true. Maybe for some it is but not every guy. We've all seen the guy who "has it all" and is successful but hasn't met that girl. We've also seen the guys who seem like losers and d'bags and they get the hot girl.... WHY? And if you as a guy can't spark that feeling of "chemistry" in a woman, then dating probably will be a rough ride for you. You'll be taking out women who won't see you again afterwards, and who will end up with someone else, very often someone who doesn't have nearly as much going for him as you do. Both points absolutely true. Not only that, people in general, especially women on here who dont know what to tell a guy whos struggling, tend to fall back on "just be yourself". Well that may work for women who dont have to do the pursuing, but when all the chemistry issues come into play, and problem with guys that cant instinctively figure out how women work, you have to look it up and figure out what youre doing wrong. 1
ThaWholigan Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Both points absolutely true. Not only that, people in general, especially women on here who dont know what to tell a guy whos struggling, tend to fall back on "just be yourself". Well that may work for women who dont have to do the pursuing, but when all the chemistry issues come into play, and problem with guys that cant instinctively figure out how women work, you have to look it up and figure out what youre doing wrong. I agree up to a point. How women work does differ to an extent between individuals I've found. There are basic commonalities though. 1
Eddie Edirol Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 I agree up to a point. How women work does differ to an extent between individuals I've found. There are basic commonalities though. Women differ with personalities of course, different degrees of reaction to certain behaviors, but the the commonalities are more what I'm talking about. 1
mickleb Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Women differ with personalities of course, different degrees of reaction to certain behaviors, but the the commonalities are more what I'm talking about. Would you mind listing a few examples of how we tick? I'll be happy to give my feedback on them.
BS76 Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) So I finally finished reading my first PUA artist book, The Game, by Neil Strauss, and I thought I’d post my first impressions of the industry. This book gave me a great introduction into the names, systems, and general attitudes surrounding the PUA world. It was also an entertaining read and basically confirmed many of my prior beliefs about PUAs. (1) Women are as unscrupulous as PUAs are sleazy. If magic tricks are enough to get a woman to open up her legs, then whose fault is it? The PUA…? If a dude reading your palm is enough to make you cheat on a boyfriend, fiancé, or husband, then whose fault is it? The PUA…? The book did make me lose some respect for women in general. Sure, not all women operate this way, but I speculate that many did at some point in their life. And the ones that hate PUAs the most are likely the very ones who fell for PUA techniques when they were younger. Perhaps it’s not necessarily a hatred for the PUAs themselves, but hatred of themselves for once being so naïve, impressionable, and plain stupid to fall for such nonsense and letting some creepy dude’s penis inside them. Perhaps instead of looking inward, these women projected their own faults on the men who bedded them. (2) Attractive women may be the most susceptible to PUA techniques. This is purely speculation, but I think attractive women might be the most susceptible to a PUA. One who is attractive tends to grow up riding on their physical attractiveness and never having the incentive to develop their social intelligence. And when they encounter the PUA, they simply don’t have the social savvy to know what to do with him. And even worse, if the guy is reasonably attractive, she will eat it up. (3) PUAs really are a bunch of nerds. It seems that hardcore PUAs are more obsessed with the process than they are with women. Women are just the pawns they use to compete against each other on who is the best PUA or has the best PUA methods. Just think about it, what do you get when you gather up a bunch of socially awkward men who have no success with women? A bunch of socially awkward men with socially awkward interests. The Project Hollywood house described in the book almost sounded like a joke. A bunch of nerds living in a house, many sleeping in closets, who would spend the days playing video games and Dungeons and Dragons and discussing PUA methods ad naseum. The PUA forums often mentioned were their reality (much like LS is the reality for some folks). More time was spent analyzing than doing, and so these dudes spent more time with each other than they did with women. (3) PUAs refuse to hold themselves accountable. This was really colored by my reading of a blog detailing the dating experiences of a PUA. He was sleazy in every form of the word, and I totally understood why women wouldn’t call him back. He was so engrossed in the techniques of the “game” that he never thought of holding himself accountable. It was either the woman’s fault or the PUA technique’s fault. The same sort of thing happened in The Game. If a PUA didn’t get the girl, then he’d create some sort of explanation in his mind that he wasn’t being cocky-funny enough, or the girl had too much Anti-Slut-Defense, or any other cockamamie excuse that shifts blame off of him. (4) After you’ve gotten the girl’s attention, the rest is up to you. PUA nonsense doesn’t apply beyond that. No amount of PUArtistry will hide the fact that you’ve got no personality. There’s no wonder women hardly ever return a call from a PUA. Sure, a dude can get a number, but I’ve noticed that with many PUAs, it ends there. (5) The successful PUAs tend to be those that would have been successful with women even without the PUA methods. They already either had the physical looks and/or personalities to attract women. The ones that didn’t and relied solely on PUA might have experienced some sporadic success early on, but it eventually fizzled out. Having read the book while in a social vacuum, I have developed second thoughts on this whole PUA mission of mine. Sure, I’d still love to live a fun and casual lifestyle for a little while, but I’m not sure the PUA route is for me. It’s honestly just a little too ridiculous for me… And at the end of the book, all these guys seemed downright miserable with their lives. The parable of the Frog and the Scorpion was brought up in The Game, speaking on how we all will always act in our nature. I don't think my personality caters to what the PUA community teaches...I'd eventually be exposed. By "being myself," I'd break practically every "rule" in the book. So at this point...I have no idea... You've just critiqued stuff that's someting that's like 7-8 years old. *A LOT has changed in the community since then. As for "PUA only works on X type of women", that's bs. Give this a read: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-bar-girl/ PUA makes you more attractive, pure and simple. Being attractive works on virtually all types of women. Edited December 10, 2012 by BS76
CptSaveAho Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) I dont agree with dress matters... its about being yourself.... an outfit or a gym membership is not going to give me the emotional tools to be successful with women Here's the overall secret of PUA and Im not going to charge a dime for anything... End goal... here it is "Just be yourself and tell them like it is" Edited December 10, 2012 by CptSaveAho
CptObvious Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 We assemble with those we resemble. If PUA nets you a woman, that woman will be as shallow as the techniques you used. Personally I can't be bothered. I have a buddy who has buried himself with those books, and now he is a 40ish man sleeping with a bunch of 20 something bimbos. I could think of nothing worse. Not to mention this **** wont be getting him anywhere in life. So what happens say 50 and beyond? You will be a lonely man at the tail end of your life, but you will find solace on telling people your stories of all the young women you picked up and shagged from the bars? The peole you will be telling will be grossed out, and you will still have to live with a life that you cannot look back on and be proud of. Don't cheapen yourself. Your buddy is a hall of famer. Show your respect.
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