MrCastle Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Mr. Castle, all you need to be good at attracting and keeping women interested is to be authentic and have confidence. Not so if your "authentic" self isn't attractive to women. Some men just don't appeal to the broader base of women, whether because of their lifestyle or personality traits, etc. I always say, it depends on what you want. If don't want to change yourself and improve yourself, you're making a decision that you're waiting for a very specific type of girl to come along who will accept you for who you are, and that's fine. But if it's success you're looking for, you need to make the necessary changes to appeal to the larger base of women and improve your chances of connecting with more women.
Tara247 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 If it were that easy, PUA wouldn't even exist. I have been authentic most of my life, has gotten me nowhere with women. Sad fact: I got better when I started lying. Confidence, well, is a by-product of success. How in the hell is someone supposed to be confident if all he does is failing? You are confident when you believe in yourself. Everydody isn't all bad. Believe in your good qualities, then if there are things that you want to be better at, work hard on those things to change them. You can get better at things with a plan, practice, and knowledge. Why do you need to lie about anything? Pick-up artist tricks are based on lies, mind tricks and deceptions. You don't need that. If a man lies to me, it's over. The lies will be found out eventually, then what you've built based on those lies will collapse like a house of cards. Of course, if you're lying to get laid, then you will have moved onto the next victim before the house of cards collapses with the previous one. But, think about what this says about you as a person that you need to lie to attract a woman or get laid.
MrCastle Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 You are confident when you believe in yourself. Everydody isn't all bad. Believe in your good qualities, then if there are things that you want to be better at, work hard on those things to change them. You can get better at things with a plan, practice, and knowledge. Why do you need to lie about anything? Pick-up artist tricks are based on lies, mind tricks and deceptions. You don't need that. If a man lies to me, it's over. The lies will be found out eventually, then what you've built based on those lies will collapse like a house of cards. Of course, if you're lying to get laid, then you will have moved onto the next victim before the house of cards collapses with the previous one. But, think about what this says about you as a person that you need to lie to attract a woman or get laid. I use some PUA stuff, none of which includes lying or deception.
Failboy Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I deliberately didn't quote you in my last response as I was asking the forum that one. That's the impression I've got from this thread, as well as others I've seen on here. Would you say the primary aim is not for guys to procure sex? I'd say it is about a shift of power. Prior to PUA, it was common sense that good-looking women had all the power in dating. Men chased them, got depressed over constant rejections, and so on. Women could do whatever they wanted, as long as they looked good enough to be desireable to men. PUA essentially is about men who wouldn't put women on a pedastal anymore and about men who won't treat women like royalty when they treat them like crap in return. Men who would rather reverse that, treat women like crap and get sex in return. From my experience, PUA isn't even about sex like that, but rather about power. Hardcore PUAs are obsessed with playing the game, they don't even care about the women, the sex, let alone love. If they get a hottie by playing the game up to perfection, they satisfied. I've heard of guys who were so exhausted from playing the game (surviving shiit tests, being cocky and funny, faking disinterested, faking other options, faking little time etc) that they didn't even want sex at the end of the evening, because they were literally tired. A man could bang models and won't get respect on a hardcore PUA forum, unless is also playing the game. If he is banging the hottest chicks in the world without game, hardcore PUAs give him 0 respect.
dasein Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 So it's probably fair to say that the average PUA forum is more likely to have a strongly misogynistic and strongly juvenile element to it. Unless one wants to argue that it's not misogynistic and juvenile to refer to women as harridans and femcunts in a forum that defines itself as being for the more mature man. That's the equivalent of saying youtube has a strongly misogynistic, juvenile element to it in light of the gravity of many of the videos and comments posted. Technically true, but far from reflective of the whole picture, or of all such forums. But let's go straight to the source, shall we? For example, just googled PUA forums, this one came up first: PUA FORUMS | The Official PUA Site This one second: General Discussion and then: Stylelife Academy Public Forums Pick-up Artist Forum • Index page AskMen.com Lounge - Message Boards Surveyed maybe 1000 thread titles over ten minutes. 0 had any misogynisitic, juvenile content. Not a single thread title, certainly nothing even close to "femcunts" or even "harridans." Or perhaps you'd care to point some out the strong misogynistic or juvenile threads and content on some of these sites. One does have sexy lingerie women ads popping up. LS does too from time to time.
Tara247 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 And you guys that practice these PUA tricks do realized these women that you screw are victims, right? If you have to lie to get sex from a woman, she is your victim because you deceived her.
mickleb Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I'd say it is about a shift of power. Prior to PUA, it was common sense that good-looking women had all the power in dating. Men chased them, got depressed over constant rejections, and so on. Women could do whatever they wanted, as long as they looked good enough to be desireable to men. PUA essentially is about men who wouldn't put women on a pedastal anymore and about men who won't treat women like royalty when they treat them like crap in return. Men who would rather reverse that, treat women like crap and get sex in return. From my experience, PUA isn't even about sex like that, but rather about power. Hardcore PUAs are obsessed with playing the game, they don't even care about the women, the sex, let alone love. If they get a hottie by playing the game up to perfection, they satisfied. I've heard of guys who were so exhausted from playing the game (surviving shiit tests, being cocky and funny, faking disinterested, faking other options, faking little time etc) that they didn't even want sex at the end of the evening, because they were literally tired. A man could bang models and won't get respect on a hardcore PUA forum, unless is also playing the game. If he is banging the hottest chicks in the world without game, hardcore PUAs give him 0 respect. Putting the hardcore PUAs to one side, for a moment, do you think that gaining power is the objective of the majority of men who employ PUA strategies?
Tara247 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I'd say it is about a shift of power. Prior to PUA, it was common sense that good-looking women had all the power in dating. Men chased them, got depressed over constant rejections, and so on. Women could do whatever they wanted, as long as they looked good enough to be desireable to men. PUA essentially is about men who wouldn't put women on a pedastal anymore and about men who won't treat women like royalty when they treat them like crap in return. Men who would rather reverse that, treat women like crap and get sex in return. From my experience, PUA isn't even about sex like that, but rather about power. Hardcore PUAs are obsessed with playing the game, they don't even care about the women, the sex, let alone love. If they get a hottie by playing the game up to perfection, they satisfied. I've heard of guys who were so exhausted from playing the game (surviving shiit tests, being cocky and funny, faking disinterested, faking other options, faking little time etc) that they didn't even want sex at the end of the evening, because they were literally tired. A man could bang models and won't get respect on a hardcore PUA forum, unless is also playing the game. If he is banging the hottest chicks in the world without game, hardcore PUAs give him 0 respect. Ok, I'm a pretty good-looking woman. Pretty face, hot body and all that. If one of you PUA's comes to me and tries to "neg" me, I'm going to tell you to "kiss my a**. Game over. You leave looking stupid, and I go on to accept the next date. Can't you guys see how ridiculous this is, and that this only works on naive, stupid, immature girls and not real women??
MrCastle Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 And you guys that practice these PUA tricks do realized these women that you screw are victims, right? If you have to lie to get sex from a woman, she is your victim because you deceived her. Who's lying though? And about what? Pua showed me how to better read women. I was always a caring, passionate guy who loved women. But that never helped me land a date. I was getting nothing but friendzoned. I had to communicate my intentions effectively and get women to understand I'm the kind of guy you're gonna wanna date, not friend. I never changed my personality, I just changed how I packaged it, and marketed it. Pua to me is a form of marketing. 1
dasein Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 So it's probably fair to say that the average PUA forum is more likely to have a strongly misogynistic and strongly juvenile element to it. Unless one wants to argue that it's not misogynistic and juvenile to refer to women as harridans and femcunts in a forum that defines itself as being for the more mature man. Actually not at all. LS won't let me link the sites I just tried to link and post, or may not, will see if my post ends up cleared so readers can look for themselves. I googled "PUA forums," went to the first 5, reviewed over 1000 thread titles, found 0 with any "misogynistic" or "juvenile" wording in them. None. Certainly nothing remotely close to "femcunts" or even "harridans." Now, as posted previously, I have seen -many- posts by obvious posturing kids and ts on PUA forums. But that's the nature of the net, not a function of PUA specifically. Those who disagree can go read some random youtube comments. So do point out some of this blatantly misogynistic content on PUA forums, as I found none at all.
Tara247 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Seriously, there are loose, sex-hungry sluts out and about in abundance these days. You guys don't need to lame techniques to get laid. Oh, wait, you want the really attractive women, right? Even so, again, the really attractive women that you get using these tricks aren't going to be that smart. So, I guess, if getting laid is the objective, go for it. But, just remember you have to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning. The bottom line is that you have lied and deceived someone in order to meet your objective.
MrCastle Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Ok, I'm a pretty good-looking woman. Pretty face, hot body and all that. If one of you PUA's comes to me and tries to "neg" me, I'm going to tell you to "kiss my a**. Game over. You leave looking stupid, and I go on to accept the next date. Can't you guys see how ridiculous this is, and that this only works on naive, stupid, immature girls and not real women?? Let's just say for the sake of argument that the women who fall for it are naive stupid, immature girls. Sleeping with a naive, stupid, immature girl is better than sleeping with no girl at all. You have to understand the mentality of most men who use pua. They have their backs against the wall. They're looking for any kind of female interaction they can get.
dasein Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 And you guys that practice these PUA tricks do realized these women that you screw are victims, right? If you have to lie to get sex from a woman, she is your victim because you deceived her. Any schmo can lie. "Will respect you in the morning, I love you, the car is out of gas," Nothing new about men lying to women to get sex. No one will pay money to learn how to do that, and no PUA counsels men to lie to women.
dasein Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Would you say the primary aim is not for guys to procure sex? Well once more, one would have to poll lots of men who look into learning seduction to know a definitive answer. It's like asking whether the primary aim of a car is to drag race, no? Depends on the driver.
Taramere Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Actually not at all. LS won't let me link the sites I just tried to link and post, or may not, will see if my post ends up cleared so readers can look for themselves. I googled "PUA forums," went to the first 5, reviewed over 1000 thread titles, found 0 with any "misogynistic" or "juvenile" wording in them. None. Certainly nothing remotely close to "femcunts" or even "harridans." Now, as posted previously, I have seen -many- posts by obvious posturing kids and ts on PUA forums. But that's the nature of the net, not a function of PUA specifically. Those who disagree can go read some random youtube comments. So do point out some of this blatantly misogynistic content on PUA forums, as I found none at all. Go to sosuave discussion forum and click on the mature man section.
mickleb Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 To everyone: So, is it fair to say that PUA is for men and its primary aim is to improve their ability to get sex?
mickleb Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 It's like asking whether the primary aim of a car is to drag race, no? Depends on the driver. Is it? I would have thought that would be a stupid question. I would have thought that if I asked 'Is the primary aim of driving a car to drag race?', most people would say 'No, it is to get from A to B' (and add something about distances that exceed a reasonable degree of physical effort, or something).
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I have been authentic most of my life, has gotten me nowhere with women. Sad fact: I got better when I started lying. This attitude is a major reason why PUA has women all up in arms. Speaking generally, "we" don't want to be lied to so guys can "bang" us, or, for that matter, have anything to do with us. I never even heard of PUA before I came to LoveShack. Once I did, I started investigating on the net. I think that the "social lubrication" aspect of it is fine, and if figuring out some lines or gimmicks to start conversations that might lead to dates and maybe sex and / or relationships, and to have a support group type deal about it can help shy, socially awkward guys - I think that's fine. But most of what I've read is not so benign at all. Some of the most outspoken PUA cultists (which is what they seem like) on this board seem unable to write about women without denigrating us. The focus on what is perceived as women's universal weaknesses used in order to take advantage of women is offensive to women. Lots of weird cultural memes, such as women only having our youth and reproductive organs to offer society or to a relationship with a man, are elevated, as is other funky evo-psyche. And the whole shebang fosters a sick "us against them" mentality. If shy and awkward guys are using those things to gain confidence - well, I see it more as those insecure guys using it to try to push women down so that they can feel superior. I don't believe that is good for the guys or for anyone. Also, the whole marketing extravaganzas make it unpalatable to me. I feel the same way about other self help money-makers, Amway, "The Rules," Scientology and Pat Parelli's appropriation of "natural horsemanship." It all engenders skepticism. 4
Imported Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Seriously, there are loose, sex-hungry sluts out and about in abundance these days. You guys don't need to lame techniques to get laid. Oh, wait, you want the really attractive women, right? Even so, again, the really attractive women that you get using these tricks aren't going to be that smart. So, I guess, if getting laid is the objective, go for it. But, just remember you have to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning. The bottom line is that you have lied and deceived someone in order to meet your objective. These "sluts" don't see themselves as sluts. Also.....most women are a "slut" at some time. Yes, I know...when you were being a "slut" you were just embracing your femininity and having fun. Not a slut at all, nope. They are not always obvious about things. One second they are ready to suck a cock and you don't move on it and you missed it. They may be horny, they may be 100% wanting to have sex, but they are passive about it. A guy needs to be able to recognize the emotional state a girl is in and respond accordingly to it. Most guys don't. Even better if you know how to help women along to that emotional state and this does not require any lying. OP, I never read the book you read, really, I never read a "PUA" book, but there is info out there going well beyond just getting a phone number. I never had problems generating interest from women. I did/do have problems in everything else lol. Edited December 2, 2012 by Imported
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Go to sosuave discussion forum and click on the mature man section. Like this fine example, right on the first page: Call me old-fashioned, but I want to make a baby the old fashioned way - by pounding away on the vajaya, resulting in the stimulation of the nerves on my member, and the eventual ejaculation of my seed. As for marrying some 40 year old harridan who was to stuck up and/or dedicated to her "career" to want to accept me as an intimacy partner when she was naturally fertile (and therefore something I wanted to bang), my opinion:
Tara247 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Let's just say for the sake of argument that the women who fall for it are naive stupid, immature girls. Sleeping with a naive, stupid, immature girl is better than sleeping with no girl at all. You have to understand the mentality of most men who use pua. They have their backs against the wall. They're looking for any kind of female interaction they can get. Mr. Castle, unless a man is truly disgusting, the idea that he can't get sex is truly foreign to me. I will admit that I have lived a sheltered life, but I just can't see why it is that hard if the guy is not ugly, clean, nice and considerate. Yes, if you're a man that is nasty, has dirt under his fingernails, doesn't shave, has a pot belly, ok, I can see that it could be hard. But, if you are presentable, going somewhere with your life, like I said, how could it really be that hard? Please explain this to me. Or, like I mentioned previously, are you trying to get beautiful girls only? If so, as long as you look decent and are nice, and arn't a wimp, I don't even see how that's so hard. However, I will admit that you need some kind of "edge". The guy I had a date with last night, had no game, and it wasn't attractive. However, can't you get that edge by practicing, reading and talking to male role models instead of resorting to pick-up artist techniques? I know women like "bad-boys" and I do too, but there is a limit. I won't have a bad boy "negging" me.
dasein Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Go to sosuave discussion forum and click on the mature man section. OK. I did, found the two "femcunts" threads (out of many with no objectionable titles), which are directed at feminists, and specific feminist behavior by both men and women, not women generally, PUA techniques, etc. I also did a little looking into the motivation for one of those threads, it was the following video: After watching it, jaw dropping, I can't imagine a better term to describe the deplorable behavior of both male and female feminists in it. Perhaps you will watch the video and suggest a better, less misogynistic term to describe the behavior you see in it. I'm all ears. Back to the topic, I didn't even find sosouave on the top three pages of google (actually dogpile) results of PUA forums. So since I've looked at yours, please do me the courtesy of looking at mine now, and describing misogyny on the top large PUA sites.
Failboy Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Ok, I'm a pretty good-looking woman. Pretty face, hot body and all that. If one of you PUA's comes to me and tries to "neg" me, I'm going to tell you to "kiss my a**. Game over. You leave looking stupid, and I go on to accept the next date. Can't you guys see how ridiculous this is, and that this only works on naive, stupid, immature girls and not real women?? A major part of the PUA doctrine is handling rejection with less emotion. Guys can get suicidal thoughts caused by multiple rejections because they put women like you on a major pedestal. PUA would teach guys who fail at getting with you to just "next" you and stop bothering with you instead of desperately chasing you for weeks and slitting ones wrists over it. Get it? Of course PUA tactics don't work on any woman for any guy. But if they don't, it is less painful than getting rejected while being kind and having a more sensitive attitude. And let's be honest for a second: You'd reject me no matter how I would talk to you. So using PUA tactics can't make it worse.
Tara247 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 These "sluts" don't see themselves as sluts. Also.....most women are a "slut" at some time. Yes, I know...when you were being a "slut" you were just embracing your femininity and having fun. Not a slut at all, nope. They are not always obvious about things. One second they are ready to suck a cock and you don't move on it and you missed it. They may be horny, they may be 100% wanting to have sex, but they are passive about it. A guy needs to be able to recognize the emotional state a girl is in and respond accordingly to it. Most guys don't. Even better if you know how to help women along to that emotional state and this does not require any lying. OP, I never read the book you read, really, I never read a "PUA" book, but there is info out there going well beyond just getting a phone number. I never had problems generating interest from women. I did/do have problems in everything else lol. Are you saying you need to be taught how to f*ck/make love?
Tara247 Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 A major part of the PUA doctrine is handling rejection with less emotion. Guys can get suicidal thoughts caused by multiple rejections because they put women like you on a major pedestal. PUA would teach guys who fail at getting with you to just "next" you and stop bothering with you instead of desperately chasing you for weeks and slitting ones wrists over it. Get it? Of course PUA tactics don't work on any woman for any guy. But if they don't, it is less painful than getting rejected while being kind and having a more sensitive attitude. And let's be honest for a second: You'd reject me no matter how I would talk to you. So using PUA tactics can't make it worse. What makes you think I'd reject you? Are you assuming that just because I'm pretty, I'm stuck up? Do you assume this with other pretty women? All women don't think alike. All of us are not shallow and self-absorbed.
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