PUA: My First Impressions...

[dasein]

Someone once told me that they use tarot cards at times, to give "readings". I'd be curious to hear what they come up with. They wouldn't get me to sleep with them - they'd get a really boring conversation on their hands, where I told them what the cards usually stand for.

 

What if the guy actually had spent a couple of hours learning what the cards mean (it ain't rocket science), or and had been approaching women his whole life previous with "hey cutie, can I buy you a drink?"

 

Attraction and all else being equal, same guy actually, which of these would you talk to and which would you dismiss, before or after?

[movingon12]

Other than my first time about 4 years ago which turned out to be a ONS, I've never had casual sex that wasn't in furtherance of dating or a relationship. So I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it. I don't know what I don't know. And for a while now, I've felt incomplete without having had that experience. You're right, I think deep down, I'm a relationship kind of guy. But I feel like my relationships do suffer because I didn't have that casual experience that many, if not all, of my peers have had.

 

If every time you've had sex, you were dating, or wanting to date the girl, why do you think you would enjoy sex with someone that you didn't want to date?

 

I understand there are people who enjoy casual sex for what it is: who don't attach emotions to it, and who do it purely for the physical pleasure. From what I've read of your posts, you don't sound like one of these people.

[Anela]

What if the guy actually had spent a couple of hours learning what the cards mean (it ain't rocket science), or and had been approaching women his whole life previous with "hey cutie, can I buy you a drink?"

 

Attraction and all else being equal, same guy actually, which of these would you talk to and which would you dismiss, before or after?

 

I've never been approached that way. I don't go to bars, clubs, or even Starbucks. Neither one would have me sleeping with them in one night.

 

It ain't rocked science, but if I had the idea they were using cards to try to pick me up - after reading about it as some gimmick to get me to spread my legs - then I would focus more on the cards than them or myself.

[dasein]

Unfortunately, I still have quite a while before I can implement any sort of social workout plan...so I can only think in theory and speculation without the practical application...and you know how dangerous the idle mind can be...

 

You started the thread with the apparent intent of making a change. Have now read one book. You are effectively at the point of a guy who has never been to a gym who read a single good workout book by Ahnuld:laugh:. Are you going to write a workout plan and actually go to the gym? If you want change in results and your life, that is what you must do. I spent ten years philosophizing about gaining control of my sex life before doing anything about it. Didn't have anyone to motivate me, so wasted lots of precious time in "contemplation." Please avoid my mistake.

[dasein]

I've never been approached that way. I don't go to bars, clubs, or even Starbucks. Neither one would have me sleeping with them in one night.

 

That you've never been approached this way was not the point, and no one said anything about a ONS. The question couldn't have been simpler. You have answered it, though, because you would at least be talking to tarot guy. That's the whole point of PUA, social lubrication. It's not about ONS, a GF, a wife, a phone number, a kiss, or just someone new and interesting met out, those things are a function of the individual using the tool, not the tool itself.

 

Now if you read about some guy using tarot, then eventually men would learn not to use that, just as men learn not to offer free drinks. What if instead, they approached you with, "my friend taught me a fun 5 minute personality test last week, want to take it?" What if a guy approached with a divination technique you had heard about but never seen done, such as I Ching or a tortoise shell? What it he approached you with a deck of tarot cards and said, "My friend left these in my car, I know they are tarot cards, but that's it, do you have any idea what they mean or how to use them?" What if a guy comes up to you with a box of cheap, goofy sunglasses and says "can you tell me which of these looks best on me?" and in the process got you wearing the shades yourself?

 

Even if contrived wouldn't those things be better than "Hi, do you come here often?" Haven't women been asking men to be more right brained, flirty and romantic in original ways? If men made an effort to do that, wouldn't any effort in that direction be desirable as opposed to no effort and staying bland?

[TheBigQuestion]

I think I'm beginning to understand why certain women are so irrationally negative about seduction techniques and threatened by men who learn to use seduction techniques effectively. It's because certain women believe power in the sex selection process should rest solely with the female and her chosen males, and that if other men become sexually successful, it threatens female sexual control somehow. I don't see the causal connections, but what other conclusion fits?

 

It leaps out subtextually in many of the uneducated views misconceiving PUA as some end in itself rather than a mere means to as many different ends as there are different men.

 

Your and some others' posts on this topic read like "I hate knives because they are sharp, and you can kill someone with one. So never use knives, take them out of your kitchens. The very existence of knives offends me. If you learn to use knives, you have spent your time in alternatively dangerous or frivolous pursuits. Same for wheels, don't use them because they can be put on cars which run over people."

 

At least on this board, PUA is pretty much the only topic that gets a universally negative reaction from female posters. Why this is so I will never understand. Even people (like me) who recognize that a lot of PUA is outdated, useless, counterproductive, or all of the foregoing but who still think it has significant value for inexperienced men have been raked over coals for expressing such a viewpoint.

 

It doesn't seem like any woman has ever conceded that it absolutely CAN have a positive impact, despite the fact that people like the ThaWholigan have provided very concrete, specific examples as to how it helped him. Some women have even gone as far as to insist that it was something else that got him to further his dating goals, despite the fact that as strangers on the internet, they are in no position to make those assumptions.

 

It doesn't seem like any woman can (or is willing to) make the distinction between men being an actual part of the PUA "community" and simply using the advice in their own way, for their own unique ends.

 

Then there are those who insist that only "low class" or unintelligent women could possibly "fall" for PUA "tactics."

 

Then there are those who insist that anyone who is utilizing PUA is some sort of "predator." This is alarmist nonsense and patently false to boot.

 

Yeah, your explanation as to why women hate PUA so much is as plausible as any.

[mickleb]

Just out of interest, what would you say are the differences between a forum like this one and your average PUA forum?

[dasein]

Just out of interest, what would you say are the differences between a forum like this one and your average PUA forum?

 

More balanced adult perspectives, fewer posturing kids here.

 

More pragmatic, results oriented discussions that address a given topic directly there.

[mickleb]

More balanced adult perspectives, fewer posturing kids here.

 

Why more balanced?

 

More pragmatic, results oriented discussions that address a given topic directly there.

 

What are the results?

[aed]

@ Hookie,

 

I am personaly not very good with women, but also not very bad. Some hot girls looked at me like a was the biggest and ugliest man they have ever seen and said things like: go away creep, or pulled a strange face when i just ask for a light for my sigaret. BUT I also had hot girls chaising me, and both of them looked to me equally hot. (so i can't give you a solid personal advise for what worked for me. If you want to know what doesn't work just PM )

I have a great diverse male group of friends, some of us are proudfully nerds, some are upcoming bankers, some have there own succesfull company, and even a few are good with women (getting them and keeping them). But the one's how are the most succesful with women, are the ones how careless about getting a woman.

 

I am not so much in to the PUA (but i tried somethings don't we all ) It can help you to improve yourself. But most of them is allot of bull****; The Game, Strauss, Mystery, Love Systems etc are teaching types of gimmicks that help you get sluts (party girls), there philosophy is build around and getting those type of women.

 

Like I said it can help you to improve yourself. Also I think it;s better to focus on selfhelp books adressed to men, because as a man you have different needs and hormones as woman. Some outcome results can be the same with the genders, but the couse of it is in 99% for men different then it is for women. But if you want to stay with more pua based material:

I heard good stories about this book: 'Models: Attract Women Through Honesty'. They advocate men improvements and learn to be your self and it will help you the most in long run. So don't make your life about getting a girl. Be yourself and learn how to be happy for your self and the people you interact with. It will help you getting a girlfriend, but when it doesn't? hey you are still happy, so it shouldnt matter!

 

 

When I look in my group of friends, the difference with men who are good with women and those who are not:

 

(First you need to be a little social (but reading the humor you can put in to your online post and the intelligence you show, this shouldn't be a problem, also i have seen guys with Asperger doing very well with women), dress nice, and have a normal hair cut.

And Yes some men have it easier then others. But it really doesn't say ****. A friend of mine who is goodlooking, and has alot of female attention. I ask my sister what it was about him, she said: He looks like he is a descent and trustworthy guy, and he dressses nice. I ask is that all? Yeah she said.

But he almost never aproaches and he blow's up more options. Is single for years now and how many times do you think he get's laid in year?)

 

The first doesn't care about HER OPINION ABOUT HIM. If she doesn't like him or things doesn't work out: so be it and he will move on. It doesn't affect his state of happiness. He is happy with the things in his own live. So he can focus on the interaction they are having and if he likes it or not. So because he doesn't care he pushes things forward and thakes more risk of getting rejected and is getting more rejected but had more results.

 

The second is so occupied with his own flaws, thinking she is probably wil not like him etc, They cover that up with being overly nice or the oposite being overly alpha and uninterested. They try to be something and hope that the girl will like them.

 

Men will get rejected: an avarege party girl won't reject a Bratt Pitt or a type of equal status and attractivenes. But do you think he got Angelina that easy or that he never get's rejected by girls from his own peergroup (so equally status, etc?)

[Failboy]

We assemble with those we resemble. If PUA nets you a woman, that woman will be as shallow as the techniques you used. Personally I can't be bothered. I have a buddy who has buried himself with those books, and now he is a 40ish man sleeping with a bunch of 20 something bimbos. I could think of nothing worse. Not to mention this **** wont be getting him anywhere in life. So what happens say 50 and beyond? You will be a lonely man at the tail end of your life, but you will find solace on telling people your stories of all the young women you picked up and shagged from the bars? The peole you will be telling will be grossed out, and you will still have to live with a life that you cannot look back on and be proud of.

 

Don't cheapen yourself.

 

 

Oh, I can. How about a 40ish man who is lonely and gets no female affection whatsoever? Or a 40ish man who is unhappily married and abused by his wife, while still scared of a divorce because it would cripple him financially?

 

Both scenarios are far from rare. And far worse.

[Divasu]

PUA is often associated with the end result being the seduction of women.

 

Some women dislike that, because THEIR end result is typically different.

 

You can say that in most cases ---women date to find love, men date to find sex.

[Taramere]

Just out of interest, what would you say are the differences between a forum like this one and your average PUA forum?

 

a) women don't post on PUA forums.

 

b) Going to a popular PUA forum and clicking on the "mature man" section, I see a list of thread titles referring to harridans and femcunts. You don't tend to see that sort of abuse directed towards either gender in thread titles on here (or, if it is, those threads tend to get removed).

 

So it's probably fair to say that the average PUA forum is more likely to have a strongly misogynistic and strongly juvenile element to it. Unless one wants to argue that it's not misogynistic and juvenile to refer to women as harridans and femcunts in a forum that defines itself as being for the more mature man.

[MrCastle]

Sorry you couldn't gain any insight from it. It has certainly helped me but I do agree there are parts to it that are ridiculous and over gaming is just as bad as not having any game at all.

[Tara247]

OP, I am glad you have seen the light. PUA tactics are childish and ridiculous. A woman has to be stupid to fall for any of it.

[dasein]

Why more balanced?

 

This forum has its share of noise and scraps, but is unique in being relatively balanced as to female and male perspectives. Wasn't always the case, but feel it is moreso now. There are female posters here who have caused me to reevaluate preconceived notions and attitudes. Others have reinforced such notions All in all more worthwhile than not.

 

What are the results?

 

I couldn't estimate a correlation, other than a common sense one, between forum discussions and results in real life. PUA's results as a tool depend on whoever is putting the tool to use and to what ends. For me, improving seduction skills was a tool towards mastering my sexual desires and increasing control over my sex life. Once a man has greater control in that area, I feel he can make more informed life choices.

[Tara247]

Sorry you couldn't gain any insight from it. It has certainly helped me but I do agree there are parts to it that are ridiculous and over gaming is just as bad as not having any game at all.

 

 

Mr. Castle, all you need to be good at attracting and keeping women interested is to be authentic and have confidence.

[Eddie Edirol]

Sorry you couldn't gain any insight from it. It has certainly helped me but I do agree there are parts to it that are ridiculous and over gaming is just as bad as not having any game at all.

 

Most of the PUA stuff is bullshyt. But I know I learned some really valuable points that got me in a habit of avoiding typical mistakes that guys make when dealing with women, mistakes that I typically made and learned from when it was spelled out in the material. But I didnt read the stuff looking for ONS, I just wanted to know what I was doing wrong. I honestly dont know what happens to guys in the long run that get used to seducing and bedding as many women as they can and are actually successful at it. Could care less really, its not what I'm about. But it doesnt make sense to bash the techniques of a book about getting laid quickly if thats not what you really want.

[Eddie Edirol]

Mr. Castle, all you need to be good at attracting and keeping women interested is to be authentic and have confidence.

 

Thats only partly true with attracting women, but theres alot more than that to keeping them long term.

[Tara247]

Eddie, PUA techniques are based on reverse psychology, but the way that they espouse the use of these techniques have men appearing stupid, and lame. Again, it is ridiculous and childish.

[mickleb]

So, is it fair to say that a PUA forum is one that is used by men, with the primary aim of improving their ability to get sex?

[Failboy]

Mr. Castle, all you need to be good at attracting and keeping women interested is to be authentic and have confidence.

 

 

If it were that easy, PUA wouldn't even exist.

 

I have been authentic most of my life, has gotten me nowhere with women.

 

Sad fact: I got better when I started lying.

 

Confidence, well, is a by-product of success. How in the hell is someone supposed to be confident if all he does is failing?

[Imajerk17]

Just out of interest, what would you say are the differences between a forum like this one and your average PUA forum?

 

The difference between PUA forums and this one is that PUA forums actually have guys who are success stories. This forum, not so much.

 

I have to play Devil's Advocate here. I like most of the females on here. You have a couple women though, who have actually made fun of the guys who try to learn how to be attractive to women (so these guys turn to PUA because where else can they go really) and say how they are way too smart to fall for that. And then these very same women fall for much bigger losers, at least that appears the case from observing these women's posting histories. Does anyone else see something off with that?

 

This is coming from a guy who has said that a lot of the PUA advice out there misses the mark. (Not all, but much of it.) I pointed out the ways before--focusing on gimmicks, thinking that women's desire is all about attraction, and even thinking that attraction is all about "active disinterest" and being the coolest guy.

 

If you want to learn more about women, see what they go for. Look at their actions and not their words.

[dasein]

PUA's results as a tool depend on whoever is putting the tool to use and to what ends. For me, improving seduction skills was a tool towards mastering my sexual desires and increasing control over my sex life. Once a man has greater control in that area, I feel he can make more informed life choices.

 

So, is it fair to say that a PUA forum is one that is used by men, with the primary aim of improving their ability to get sex?

 

I don't see where you got "ability to get sex" from the above quote, particularly the underlined, or perhaps you were responding to someone else.

[mickleb]

I don't see where you got "ability to get sex" from the above quote, particularly the underlined, or perhaps you were responding to someone else.

 

I deliberately didn't quote you in my last response as I was asking the forum that one. That's the impression I've got from this thread, as well as others I've seen on here.

 

Would you say the primary aim is not for guys to procure sex?