PUA: My First Impressions...

[USMCHokie]

So I finally finished reading my first PUA artist book, The Game, by Neil Strauss, and I thought I’d post my first impressions of the industry. This book gave me a great introduction into the names, systems, and general attitudes surrounding the PUA world. It was also an entertaining read and basically confirmed many of my prior beliefs about PUAs.

 

(1) Women are as unscrupulous as PUAs are sleazy. If magic tricks are enough to get a woman to open up her legs, then whose fault is it? The PUA…? If a dude reading your palm is enough to make you cheat on a boyfriend, fiancé, or husband, then whose fault is it? The PUA…? The book did make me lose some respect for women in general. Sure, not all women operate this way, but I speculate that many did at some point in their life. And the ones that hate PUAs the most are likely the very ones who fell for PUA techniques when they were younger. Perhaps it’s not necessarily a hatred for the PUAs themselves, but hatred of themselves for once being so naïve, impressionable, and plain stupid to fall for such nonsense and letting some creepy dude’s penis inside them. Perhaps instead of looking inward, these women projected their own faults on the men who bedded them.

 

(2) Attractive women may be the most susceptible to PUA techniques. This is purely speculation, but I think attractive women might be the most susceptible to a PUA. One who is attractive tends to grow up riding on their physical attractiveness and never having the incentive to develop their social intelligence. And when they encounter the PUA, they simply don’t have the social savvy to know what to do with him. And even worse, if the guy is reasonably attractive, she will eat it up.

 

(3) PUAs really are a bunch of nerds. It seems that hardcore PUAs are more obsessed with the process than they are with women. Women are just the pawns they use to compete against each other on who is the best PUA or has the best PUA methods. Just think about it, what do you get when you gather up a bunch of socially awkward men who have no success with women? A bunch of socially awkward men with socially awkward interests. The Project Hollywood house described in the book almost sounded like a joke. A bunch of nerds living in a house, many sleeping in closets, who would spend the days playing video games and Dungeons and Dragons and discussing PUA methods ad naseum. The PUA forums often mentioned were their reality (much like LS is the reality for some folks). More time was spent analyzing than doing, and so these dudes spent more time with each other than they did with women.

 

(3) PUAs refuse to hold themselves accountable. This was really colored by my reading of a blog detailing the dating experiences of a PUA. He was sleazy in every form of the word, and I totally understood why women wouldn’t call him back. He was so engrossed in the techniques of the “game” that he never thought of holding himself accountable. It was either the woman’s fault or the PUA technique’s fault. The same sort of thing happened in The Game. If a PUA didn’t get the girl, then he’d create some sort of explanation in his mind that he wasn’t being cocky-funny enough, or the girl had too much Anti-Slut-Defense, or any other cockamamie excuse that shifts blame off of him.

 

(4) After you’ve gotten the girl’s attention, the rest is up to you. PUA nonsense doesn’t apply beyond that. No amount of PUArtistry will hide the fact that you’ve got no personality. There’s no wonder women hardly ever return a call from a PUA. Sure, a dude can get a number, but I’ve noticed that with many PUAs, it ends there.

 

(5) The successful PUAs tend to be those that would have been successful with women even without the PUA methods. They already either had the physical looks and/or personalities to attract women. The ones that didn’t and relied solely on PUA might have experienced some sporadic success early on, but it eventually fizzled out.

 

Having read the book while in a social vacuum, I have developed second thoughts on this whole PUA mission of mine. Sure, I’d still love to live a fun and casual lifestyle for a little while, but I’m not sure the PUA route is for me. It’s honestly just a little too ridiculous for me… And at the end of the book, all these guys seemed downright miserable with their lives.

 

The parable of the Frog and the Scorpion was brought up in The Game, speaking on how we all will always act in our nature. I don't think my personality caters to what the PUA community teaches...I'd eventually be exposed. By "being myself," I'd break practically every "rule" in the book.

 

So at this point...I have no idea...

Edited December 2, 2012 by USMCHokie

[CarrieT]

Having read the book while in a social vacuum, I have developed second thoughts on this whole PUA mission of mine. Sure, I’d still love to live a fun and casual lifestyle for a little while, but I’m not sure the PUA route is for me. It’s honestly just a little too ridiculous for me… And at the end of the book, all these guys seemed downright miserable with their lives.

Yeeeeeaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! You have seen the light that many of us tried to warn you about at the beginning of your other thread. :D:D

 

 

So at this point...I have no idea...

Yes you do! Go back and re-read what you posted above! Walk away from the PUA sh*t, Hoke... Just go back to being the lovable guy that we know and love!

[fucpcg]

We assemble with those we resemble. If PUA nets you a woman, that woman will be as shallow as the techniques you used. Personally I can't be bothered. I have a buddy who has buried himself with those books, and now he is a 40ish man sleeping with a bunch of 20 something bimbos. I could think of nothing worse. Not to mention this **** wont be getting him anywhere in life. So what happens say 50 and beyond? You will be a lonely man at the tail end of your life, but you will find solace on telling people your stories of all the young women you picked up and shagged from the bars? The peole you will be telling will be grossed out, and you will still have to live with a life that you cannot look back on and be proud of.

 

Don't cheapen yourself.

[ThaWholigan]

Part of me is glad you came to this conclusion . For all the material I've made myself aware of, these are the original concerns that I had and why the majority of the material I discarded from my social repertoire. The icing on the cake was getting laid without using any "techniques" other than my own understanding of vocabulary to my advantage.

 

Its very easy to get caught in the trap of making it become literally a results based game, forgetting that the pawns are real people. Its why I never went to seminars, except one which was run by a dating coach and not a PUA. I learned to talk to women sure, PUA gave me the confidence. But it was merely a means to get me to come out of my shell more with women, but it would never be my philosophy.

 

I like to keep tabs on PUA for amusements though

 

Edit: its worth noting that the game is an old book and much of the pua stuff has moved on far away from the concepts laid out in the book. The "natural game" gurus come to mind.

Edited December 2, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[USMCHokie]

Yeeeeeaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! You have seen the light that many of us tried to warn you about at the beginning of your other thread. :D:D

 

Heh, I know. But I wanted to see for myself...and I was motivated more by emotions than logic...but it's kind of tough to really experiment with it out here.

 

Yes you do! Go back and re-read what you posted above! Walk away from the PUA sh*t, Hoke... Just go back to being the lovable guy that we know and love!

 

I guess the question becomes, whether the kind of girl I like would like the guy I actually am. But the problem is, I don't know what kind of girl I like...

[ThaWholigan]

Heh, I know. But I wanted to see for myself...and I was motivated more by emotions than logic...but it's kind of tough to really experiment with it out here.

 

 

 

I guess the question becomes, whether the kind of girl I like would like the guy I actually am. But the problem is, I don't know what kind of girl I like...

I am similar, I am in two minds about who exactly are the kinds of girls who would like me as I am.

[fortyninethousand322]

(3) PUAs really are a bunch of nerds. It seems that hardcore PUAs are more obsessed with the process than they are with women. Women are just the pawns they use to compete against each other on who is the best PUA or has the best PUA methods. Just think about it, what do you get when you gather up a bunch of socially awkward men who have no success with women? A bunch of socially awkward men with socially awkward interests. The Project Hollywood house described in the book almost sounded like a joke. A bunch of nerds living in a house, many sleeping in closets, who would spend the days playing video games and Dungeons and Dragons and discussing PUA methods ad naseum. The PUA forums often mentioned were their reality (much like LS is the reality for some folks). More time was spent analyzing than doing, and so these dudes spent more time with each other than they did with women.

 

I always thought PUAs were to dating what Moneyball is to baseball. A cheap nerd gimmick that only takes you so far. Better than nothing I suppose for some people but not a magic bullet. After all, how many World Series rings has Billy Beane won as GM of the Athletics?...

[USMCHokie]

I have a buddy who has buried himself with those books, and now he is a 40ish man sleeping with a bunch of 20 something bimbos. I could think of nothing worse. Not to mention this **** wont be getting him anywhere in life.

 

Don't cheapen yourself.

 

To be honest, that doesn't so all that bad...

 

But I can't even do that as a 20-something normal guy...so what does that say about me...?

[dasein]

And at the end of the book, all these guys seemed downright miserable with their lives.

 

Great summary, especially the above. However consider not abandoning your mission. A standardized, measured, somewhat mechanical period of meeting women and practicing seduction, whether you actually carry every encounter to close or not, will bring you a certain peace of mind and new power to your life. There's no need to "become a PUA," just adopt what makes sense and create a "workout plan" for youself like at the gym. Do it for a few months. The results will be similar to gym results, just mental and spiritual. The difference will be that unlike gym results, once the program is done, they will never go away.

[SteveC80]

 

(1) Women are as unscrupulous as PUAs are sleazy. If magic tricks are enough to get a woman to open up her legs, then whose fault is it? The PUA…? If a dude reading your palm is enough to make you cheat on a boyfriend, fiancé, or husband, then whose fault is it? The PUA…? The book did make me lose some respect for women in general. Sure, not all women operate this way, but I speculate that many did at some point in their life. And the ones that hate PUAs the most are likely the very ones who fell for PUA techniques when they were younger. Perhaps it’s not necessarily a hatred for the PUAs themselves, but hatred of themselves for once being so naïve, impressionable, and plain stupid to fall for such nonsense and letting some creepy dude’s penis inside them. Perhaps instead of looking inward, these women projected their own faults on the men who bedded them.

 

 

 

 

I never tried pua but this has always been where my misstrust of a lot women stems from,the fact that tons are just naive

 

When i was younger i used some lines from romantic comedy movies on a women who fell for it and claimed i was her "soulmate" later on i found out she was married and it made me hesitant to trust women and thought of them as chlidish and naive in their thinking

 

Just like men are fueled by new vagina as to why they may cheat or thinkinng about cheatign women are fueled by being emtoional connection junkies and can easily swayed that way though it alos helps if theryes intense physical atrraction sd well which may expalin why some women want to easily buy in to whats being said

[USMCHokie]

I am similar, I am in two minds about who exactly are the kinds of girls who would like me as I am.

 

I wish I had that many minds to choose from...

[jcrew11]

You can use PUA techniques without having casual sex with multiple woman.

 

You can just find one girl you like and remain monogamous or in a long term relationship.

 

Its not a one size fits all situation, and there are different techniques to use. Its about understanding women, and what excites and interests them. A lot of guys are just clueless about women or don't try and just give up.

 

Most of a man's success with woman is "just trying and showing you care enough to try."

 

Men have been emasculated in society and pop culture where its no longer okay to me a "machismo sexually aggressive guy" but woman naturally respond to "sexually aggressive men."

 

Learn how to "flirt" and make women laugh, smile, or feel good. Take a job as a waiter, where you earn money on tips for making customers feel good. You will quickly learn what works and what doesn't.

 

If you are short/bald and not "physically attractive" then you have to be more "aggressive, masculine, sexual, and over-the-top confidence" in order for women to notice you, instead of the taller more attractive men.

 

Select less attractive women, to boost your confidence. Alpha women expect Alpha men. Beta woman will accept Beta men.

[yongyong]

There are many types of instructions for sales. some of them might teach how to take advantage of people.

If you have a 3 digit IQ, you can figure out what's going to work in the long run.

 

Guys who talk about it's all bad, obviously don't have enough brain to pick out what's good for them.

Not everything they say is true or suitable for you. you need to filter the information.

[CarrieT]

Re: being a 40-ish guy sleeping with 20-something girls...

To be honest, that doesn't so all that bad...

Of course it doesn't sound that bad, because of what age you are now. When you are a 40-something who is craving a relationship and can only get bimbos for meaningless sex, you will care and wonder what you did to squander your youth.

 

But I can't even do that as a 20-something normal guy...so what does that say about me...?

It says that you are introspective, intelligent, and desiring more than what the PUA stuff offers.

 

I can tell the kind of girl you want: a reflection of you = introspective, intelligent, and desiring more than a "player."

[yongyong]

sounds like a typical Beta male post.

 

'she went home with him. what a whore!!!!' (because you can't tap a girl like that)

 

So you are saying all hollywood older guys with young GFs are low life?

 

I don't know how he is attracting those young girls. But if he is just using his game, not throwing money, I say it's nothing wrong.

 

I am pretty sure you are jealous. how do you feel going back home to 40ish wife? or being able to only hit on 40ish wrinkly women at a bar?

 

 

 

We assemble with those we resemble. If PUA nets you a woman, that woman will be as shallow as the techniques you used. Personally I can't be bothered. I have a buddy who has buried himself with those books, and now he is a 40ish man sleeping with a bunch of 20 something bimbos. I could think of nothing worse. Not to mention this **** wont be getting him anywhere in life. So what happens say 50 and beyond? You will be a lonely man at the tail end of your life, but you will find solace on telling people your stories of all the young women you picked up and shagged from the bars? The peole you will be telling will be grossed out, and you will still have to live with a life that you cannot look back on and be proud of.

 

Don't cheapen yourself.

[dasein]

Of course it doesn't sound that bad, because of what age you are now. When you are a 40-something who is craving a relationship and can only get bimbos for meaningless sex, you will care and wonder what you did to squander your youth.

 

I don't see how a man's gaining enough sexual experience and control over his sex life to allay the insecurities most average men have about being able to get sex is anything but a good thing.

 

How, from the POV of someone who claims to have had many sexual partners in life... because she is a woman and that is available to her innately, would that necessarily be "squandering one's youth" in OP's case?

[CarrieT]

How, from the POV of someone who claims to have had many sexual partners in life... because she is a woman and that is available to her innately, would that necessarily be "squandering one's youth" in OP's case?

Because he is already questioning it NOW. That mere fact is a clear indication that he is craving something far more than meaningless sex will provide.

[USMCHokie]

Great summary, especially the above. However consider not abandoning your mission. A standardized, measured, somewhat mechanical period of meeting women and practicing seduction, whether you actually carry every encounter to close or not, will bring you a certain peace of mind and new power to your life. There's no need to "become a PUA," just adopt what makes sense and create a "workout plan" for youself like at the gym. Do it for a few months. The results will be similar to gym results, just mental and spiritual. The difference will be that unlike gym results, once the program is done, they will never go away.

 

Well, from what I read in the book, it seemed like a lot of the characters came to the house desperate and miserable, and a lot of them left miserable...or perhaps even worse off.

 

Unfortunately, I still have quite a while before I can implement any sort of social workout plan...so I can only think in theory and speculation without the practical application...and you know how dangerous the idle mind can be...

[Under The Radar]

Hokie,

 

Some of the things you say in your posts remind me of myself. I have always been more of a relationship oriented guy; not so much a ONS type.

 

I've only had NSA sex once in my life and I felt like **** afterwards. Was the sex fun? Sure, but without the emotional connection it felt forced, awkward, and empty (and yes, she was "hot"). I'd rather have intercourse in a committed relationship with someone I love. That's just me and I've experienced this several times in my life.

 

Some people aren't wired for NSA sex or "running game". Call me a Beta, Gamma, Delta Male - whatever, it doesn't much matter - you cannot change who you are. If you met me IRL you wouldn't think I was weak, socially inept, or "offbase". My definition of an "Alpha Male" is not the **** we see espoused on this forum ad nauseam on a daily basis. To me it is a confidence in who you are as a person; a leader rather than a mindless follower.

 

You seem like a really sensitive guy and are looking for a deeper conncection with a woman. I'm not saying don't play the field if that is something you really want to do. As a guy, of course I think about sex all of the time. However, my mind never operated in that singular manner to "bed" multiple women as an adult.

 

These posts claiming all guys want is to get laid, and the ones denying this "objective statment" are incapable of making that happen, are not 100% true. I'm not like that and I suspect neither are you. Maybe I'm an outlier in my gender, and if that's the case I'm fine with that. In the end, staying true to oneself is the key to long term happiness.

 

I wish you well in your pursuits wherever they take you .

[USMCHokie]

Re: being a 40-ish guy sleeping with 20-something girls...

 

Of course it doesn't sound that bad, because of what age you are now. When you are a 40-something who is craving a relationship and can only get bimbos for meaningless sex, you will care and wonder what you did to squander your youth.

 

 

It says that you are introspective, intelligent, and desiring more than what the PUA stuff offers.

 

I can tell the kind of girl you want: a reflection of you = introspective, intelligent, and desiring more than a "player."

 

No...what I meant by that was that 20-something women won't sleep with me...not that I can't or wouldn't...

[fucpcg]

sounds like a typical Beta male post.

 

'she went home with him. what a whore!!!!' (because you can't tap a girl like that)

 

So you are saying all hollywood older guys with young GFs are low life?

 

I don't know how he is attracting those young girls. But if he is just using his game, not throwing money, I say it's nothing wrong.

 

I am pretty sure you are jealous. how do you feel going back home to 40ish wife? or being able to only hit on 40ish wrinkly women at a bar?

 

You're a joke. And if you think you are harder than me, ditto.

[dasein]

Who are you or I to say that any sex someone has is "meaningless" because it results from using a seduction technique? Is sex that results from your wearing stockings with lines up the back or high heels "meaningless" sex because your attempts to attract someone were intentional?

 

I think I'm beginning to understand why certain women are so irrationally negative about seduction techniques and threatened by men who learn to use seduction techniques effectively. It's because certain women believe power in the sex selection process should rest solely with the female and her chosen males, and that if other men become sexually successful, it threatens female sexual control somehow. I don't see the causal connections, but what other conclusion fits?

 

It leaps out subtextually in many of the uneducated views misconceiving PUA as some end in itself rather than a mere means to as many different ends as there are different men.

 

Your and some others' posts on this topic read like "I hate knives because they are sharp, and you can kill someone with one. So never use knives, take them out of your kitchens. The very existence of knives offends me. If you learn to use knives, you have spent your time in alternatively dangerous or frivolous pursuits. Same for wheels, don't use them because they can be put on cars which run over people."

 

If I'm wrong then why the irrational sounding reactions to what equates to a troubadour with a guitar under a window? If she likes his song, and it causes her to do something she wanted to do anyway, where's the necessity of "meaninglessness" in that event? I guess women don't mind the handsome troubadour, but if other men who can't play guitar use a tape recorded song under her window to get the same result, what does that say about her discernment and control of the process? I don't think it says anything in particular, but apparently it does in the minds of many women, or why is the perceived "threat level" so high?

[USMCHokie]

I've only had NSA sex once in my life and I felt like **** afterwards. Was the sex fun? Sure, but without the emotional connection it felt forced, awkward, and empty (and yes, she was "hot"). I'd rather have intercourse in a committed relationship with someone I love. That's just me and I've experienced this several times in my life.

 

Other than my first time about 4 years ago which turned out to be a ONS, I've never had casual sex that wasn't in furtherance of dating or a relationship. So I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it. I don't know what I don't know. And for a while now, I've felt incomplete without having had that experience. You're right, I think deep down, I'm a relationship kind of guy. But I feel like my relationships do suffer because I didn't have that casual experience that many, if not all, of my peers have had.

[Anela]

Someone once told me that they use tarot cards at times, to give "readings". I'd be curious to hear what they come up with. They wouldn't get me to sleep with them - they'd get a really boring conversation on their hands, where I told them what the cards usually stand for.

[fortyninethousand322]

Other than my first time about 4 years ago which turned out to be a ONS, I've never had casual sex that wasn't in furtherance of dating or a relationship. So I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it. I don't know what I don't know. And for a while now, I've felt incomplete without having had that experience. You're right, I think deep down, I'm a relationship kind of guy. But I feel like my relationships do suffer because I didn't have that casual experience that many, if not all, of my peers have had.

 

I feel like this sometimes. The vast majority of my friends who are in committed relationships or who have been (including one who is married with a kid) have had extensive casual experiences too. The ones who have had bad luck looking for relationships are also the ones who have little to no casual experience.