Talking smack about the BS while in A fog

[Decorative]

If to hate the OW helps you to move on, by all means do it... in a free world if I ever see a woman I like the fact that she may be married would not stop me to begin a R with her, I will probably would request her to stop her marriage soon but not for her husband but because I don't like to share! (telling you this from a BS perspective!)... I am morally lower than you? well if it helps you think that way it is fine by me, I don't feel obliged to anyone else than to the person I have promised to be loyal too.. I don't know the other person and I am not going to jeopardize a possible relationship with someone I deem suitable because someone I don't know was there first... (this is all hypothetical since I am a firm believer of cheat once, cheat always so I would never date someone who has cheated someone else as I know what is coming my way).

 

Hold up.

 

You would ask someone to divorce for you?

[Decorative]

I am not speaking about wetting my dick here but about a real relationship with someone, and if I think I like someone and I would like to have a love story with her, why should I think in others that I don't even know above myself?

 

About your totally personal attack to my personal situation... I don't feel betrayed by the OM, I have said that many times, I don't think he did anything bad when he slept with my wife even when it kills me every time I think about it... it was my wife the one who betrayed me, she owed me respect and loyalty and she broke the foundations of our relationships...

You say I would easily do that to someone else and you are again wrong, I would never cheat, I would never deceive the ones I love...this are my values and the rules that rule my world... You have yours but don't dare to judge me against your rules because they are yours, not mine!

I have not attacked you in any way, I have just expressed you an opinion, you can think I am wrong, I am fine with that but don't you dare to tell me if I have the right to feel betrayed or not... you don't know me, you don't know my life story so chill it!

 

But that's the attitude of a wayward.

 

"Me first. Me first. I don't know the other person, and I want what I want. Doesn't matter if someone else hurts- because I don't know them."

 

Surely, as upset as you have been on these boards by your wife's betrayal, that cannot be what you mean?

[jnel921]

I'm not sure if this was directed at me but since it went well beyond the OP and into some of what I said about myself I'll respond as though it were.

 

You may have been involved in their A. That's not for me to say. I wasn't in on their private time together and I wasn't privy to the fallout that you were. But it's also not for you or anyone else to say what did or did not happen, or whether or not his xW was involved in our R. You weren't there and you have no idea what was or wasn't said and done. She was not involved in our R.

 

Your sweeping comments demeaning all As is nothing but a sweeping comment meant for you to minimize all As to what you want them all to be. If that's what works for you then more power to you. Not all As are like that any more than all MMs talk trash about their Ws.

 

Your last line is very wrong. An A is an R. And if you're referring to it being a LTR and the MMs M ending then no, I'm not delusional. Since he divorced his W we've been building the R back and even further.

 

 

I say it like I mean it. I have been married twice. Both men cheated. One wanted to leave, the other stayed. Affairs are not relationships. I will assume that because you have no idea what it's like to be left with your children, no money, and having to deal with life and its challenges that you have no clue.

 

The woman that was with my first H tried to have a R with my ex-H after he divorced me bUt it didn't work because my kids and I cannot be deleted. His time, money and thoughts in one way or another kept coming back to us.

 

The second woman was obnoxious and obviously very needy with low self esteem. She put herself out there and allowed herself to be used. My H didn't want to be with her, he saw an opportunity and jump on it. We are working things out as hard as it is to stomach.

 

Just because a BS turns a blind eye to the obvious in their marriage does not mean they are not involved or in any way affected by what is happening. When a marriage is over there are consequences. If you are not affected that doesn't mean someone else isn't.

 

I do have a problem with how OW think. How affairs are justified and how they beleive that a R can work if the WS leave their spouses. it's BS.

 

What is the foundation of that relationship? Obviously one built on lies which makes it very weak.

[Decorative]

Sorry I meant to say that I filed already for divorce... I am actually remarried and with a 2 years son for my great new wife!

 

Your previous post sounded as if you meant you would ask another person to leave and divorce their spouse for you.

[frozensprouts]

this is probably one of those areas where there are some very different schools of thought....

 

personally, I do think that people have an obligation to not knowingly hurt others...it is expected in pretty much all other areas of life that we don't, so why should an affair be any different?

 

think of it this way...

 

It might be legal for me to put up a big billboard on the side of the road leading into my town with a picture of my husband's ex other woman with a caption that says " this person is a serial other woman". I'm telling the truth, if it hurts her, that's not my fault...but does that make it ethical for me to hurt her like that?

 

No, I don't think it would be. Just like it wouldn't be ethical for me to walk by someone who's lying inured in the street and not try to help, why it's not ethical for me to call up someone and lie so I can steal their savings, why the old "Nigerian prince' email scam isn't ethical, why it's not ethical to buy shoes made by kids in a factory somewhere, or "blood diamonds" or to not pay my taxes, to be a dishonest used car salesman, to "fix" the outcome of a race, to knock someone down in the store because they had just grabbed the last of a particular item in a store etc., etc., etc.. While these situations may not all carry the same "weight" the ethics are the same.. is it ethical to knowingly participate in something that's dishonest and hurtful to someone else, even if we don't know them? Does not knowing them somehow make it more ethical to hurt them? while you can't control attraction, you can control what you do about it.....

 

when it comes affairs, it's really no different. to me, it's not ethical to get involved with a married person and have an affair behind their betrayed spouses back...it's causing them pain, and I would be fully aware of that...how is it ethical for me to be a part of inflicting the same pain that I have felt myself onto someone else?

 

as for asking someone to divorce to be with me if I felt a "connection" with them...that seems kind of weird, as mos people aren't going to divorce for someone just because they say they feel a "connection" with them...for that connection to be so strong, they would have to have been at least an emotional affair to start with...which brings us back to the ethics of being the other man/woman....

[Decorative]

So lets see you are going to apply for a job in a company (it is a great job, maybe the one you always wanted, or maybe just the one you need to grow and then move on to a better one)... and you are being told in front that at the moment there is another person doing that job but he does not qualify nicely for the role... would you stop the interview and the pursuit of that job? If you take that job someone will be lay off and is possible his whole world will get destroyed, you don't know what effect it will have on him...

Who is the one playing the guy who is doing the job, the hiring company or the guy who applies for the role?

 

Don't get mistaken, most our WS tell the OM/OW how we do not take enough care of them (not qualifying nicely for the role)... so there are others who apply for the role...

 

I am speechless.

 

I cannot formulate a reply that would stay within guidelines.

[alexandria35]

Lets keep the 5$ game, you are supposed to hold 5$ for me but a guy who knows good his game comes and talk you (because your wife was not forced... if something she was talked to) into giving him the 5$... the game does not change...I can think that the con guy played you but you still owe me 5$ and is you the one who owes me the money, you knew it was mine and you should have not allowed anyone to talk you into giving him the money...

 

That is a great analogy and one I completely agree with. However, in this analogy, the con man is still a con man. He doesn't suddenly become an innocent bystander just because the spouse willingly gave him the $5. Although you might not hold him accountable for the money owed to you he is still a person doing wrong to others. What if he bilked your spouse out of your life savings and you know she has no hope of ever being able to pay it back to you? Do you still see the con man as an innocent party who did you no wrong? That would be unusual because in our society con men such as this often do have charges of fraud brought against them and they are held accountable even if their victims willingly turned their possesions over to them.

[CantgetoveritNY]

You don't have to be religious to respect the family structure. Its rather an implicit duty for the self respecting adult. You don't bang people's spouses for the same reason you don't bang kids: because the act scars people and destroys families.

 

I am so SICK of the STUPID claim that the deliberate ow/m doesn't owe the bs anything: we ALL owe each other respect for our mental health, family commitments, sanctity of the nest children are reared in and the human need for security. People who can't see this have severe issue with basic human decency.

 

Deliberate Ow/m who claim only the WS should be blamed are akin to the get away drivers at a bank robbery claiming only the shooter should be blamed. You knowingly aided in the thievery of someone's quality of life, you willingly took part in deception, you abetted a crime and deserve the repercussions for it, this isn't a minority opinion either, its why Good Samaritan laws exist, why people who aid a crime can go to jail and why ow/m can be sued for damages in most courts around the world (and jailed or even murdered in some countries!) Even most west industrialized nations lessen penalties for violent acts against ow/m under "crime of passion" defense because its clear that their actions DO cause incredible harm...

 

I can't believe so many ow/m are so ridiculous as to even try this ridiculous "Blame your spouse, not me" crap on here. It is total testimony to how:

1) egotistical they are thinking they dont deserve consequences

2) stupid they are concerning how the world views them

3) hard up they are to insult the collective intelligence of people who actually have morals

4) weak that they need to deflect, blame and insult in order to feel better about the crappy behavior and lack of thought.

 

Wow! This is great. I've not been on LS long but since I have been I've felt like I'm the only one that feels there is some responsibility for the OM/OW to act morally. That what they did can be as much or more immoral than the wayward spouse. I don't think all OM/OW's are created equal. Take the example of the serial cheater, who sets his or her sights on a married person who had never cheated before. The experienced party with well practiced and expert skills begins the pursuit. Calls and texts relentlessly. In the case of an OM he plays the romance card to the fullest. In the case of the OW she offers passion with little or no strings attached. The pursued party is flattered but responds only sparingly. Tries to to the right thing. Eventually the pursuer overcomes the moral compass of the pursued. At that point the pursued do indeed betray their spouse. They then become part of the equation that wrecks havoc in their lives, the lives of their children and their spouse. But I hardly think that in a case like this, where one party is pursued relentlessly by an "office slut" or as in my case a serial cheater who had been caught by his wife 7 times previous and sued successively by a former employee once, well in these types of cases it is ludicrous to say that the pursuer is blameless. No, the pursuer is akin to a rapist or child molester. The participating spouse in not as blameless as a child or a rape victim but is certainly not to be seen as the source of all evil in the affair.

 

This seems to be a bit off topic so I'm going to start a new thread. But I wanted say hear, thank you AtheistScholar. For a while I thought I was alone in this opinion.

[frozensprouts]

I see...so if you don't hear what you want to hear you are speechless and need to comment outside of guidelines?

I give up! OM/OW are ogres who when they are not eating children in the night come to steal our poor and vulnerable and innocent wives and husbands.

 

I hope this one is more withing your liking!

 

By the way I have NEVER been a OM, I am just trying to think with my brains and not with my pain!

 

perhaps it's time to can the hyperbole and realize that the answers that don't agree with yours have nothing to do with "pain" and everything to do with a persons ethical system...

 

if asked about their opinions on affairs, even before their spouse cheated many betrayed spouses would have had the same views that they did after the affair...

 

I can't speak for anyone else in particular, but my views on the ethics of being an other man/woman were in place long before my husband ever had an affair...I've always felt that way...it's got nothing to do with "hate' or seeing the other man/woman ass some sort of evil person...rather, it's a reaction to the dishonesty and cruelty of the situation, and the belief that there are some absolutes in life...some things really are wrong

 

you may not agree, and that's your choice, your ethics....which may be fine for you, but when your choices start interfering in someone else's life, they got every right to stand up and let you know they don't like it, that they feel you're in the wrong, and to hold you accountable - what that may look like may be very different for different people,

 

and while it is unfortunate that you don't agree and don't like the reaction you would get, there's a staying about why it's kind of silly to go whacking a bees nest and then get angry at the bees when they come out to sting...if you don't want to get stung, it's best to leave the bees nest alone and go get your "honey" elsewhere

[beenburned]

M&M,

 

On the previous page you said you would never date a person who has cheated!

But yet your example was of being involved with a MW?

[beenburned]

Your example above^^^ makes me very thankful I live in one of the 13 states here in the US, where the OW/OM can be held legally responsible for for their actions during an affair!!

[Decorative]

I see...so if you don't hear what you want to hear you are speechless and need to comment outside of guidelines?

I give up! OM/OW are ogres who when they are not eating children in the night come to steal our poor and vulnerable and innocent wives and husbands.

 

I hope this one is more withing your liking!

 

By the way I have NEVER been a OM, I am just trying to think with my brains and not with my pain!

 

Your brains tell you not to be thoughtful and respectful of other people's marriages?

[Decorative]

Sorry I meant to say that I filed already for divorce... I am actually remarried and with a 2 years son for my great new wife!

 

I hope nobody asks your great new wife to divorce you for them.

 

Do you see what you are saying? How absurd it is?

[Decorative]

No it is not, I would not mind someone asking my wife to divorce... I would mind that my wife would consider to divorce me or to have an affair... It is my point of view and it won't change... People can make the offers that they want to my wife, I trust her (it took me time to trust someone again but I do really trust her), she of course have the power to destroy me, like I was destroyed before but it is only her power... no one else holds that power, I will not make liable someone else for an affair because they do not have the power to destroy me, I don't even know them, I don't care... I only care about what my wife does and thinks....

 

Okey dokey.

[Decorative]

wow, what part of "hypothetical situation" is people missing here???

 

We get that it is hypothetical.

 

It's the path you are choosing in your hypothetical that is the problem.

[jja470]

Just because someone's spouse doesn't take up an offer from an unscrupulous person doesn't make said person any less unscrupulous.

[j'adore]

So the unscrupulous reporter who took the photo of the guy a fraction of a second before he was crushed by the oncoming train shouldn't matter to that man's family, nor should the unscrupulous newspaper who splashed that horrific picture all over the front page of their publication.

 

Um... okay.

 

EVERY unscrupulous person who I or any of my loved ones may come in contact with at some point in their lives matter to me.

 

your analogy is ridiculous.

 

Every unscrupulous person?? my you must be busy and pretty disappointed

[Summer Breeze]

I say it like I mean it. I have been married twice. Both men cheated. One wanted to leave, the other stayed. Affairs are not relationships. I will assume that because you have no idea what it's like to be left with your children, no money, and having to deal with life and its challenges that you have no clue.

Don't assume it. Well over 20 years ago my xH cheated on me. I left immediately and never looked back. My toddler came with me and I counted pennies to buy food some weeks. What caused all of that? MY H CHEATED ON ME. He cheated and lied to me every second he was in the A. He begged me to come back and was nasty when I wouldn't. He cheated on me and to me that was the dealbreaker. When it came down to it and he cheated it was still the dealbreaker. It didn't matter at all who he cheated with. What mattered was that he cheated.

 

The woman that was with my first H tried to have a R with my ex-H after he divorced me bUt it didn't work because my kids and I cannot be deleted. His time, money and thoughts in one way or another kept coming back to us.

It sounds like you were pretty competitive about it and I'm happy that you seem to feel you 'won'. In my case DMM stayed with his W for 4 years after I ended the A and then ended up divorcing her. A lot of things cause Rs to fail and to succeed.

 

The second woman was obnoxious and obviously very needy with low self esteem. She put herself out there and allowed herself to be used. My H didn't want to be with her, he saw an opportunity and jump on it. We are working things out as hard as it is to stomach.

I sincerely hope you do work it out. One of the things I didn't realize till I started reading these forums a few years ago was how many people do reconcile. I personally couldn't do it but I have so much respect for people who can. I don't get it but I respect it and hope it works for you as well as anyone else.

 

Just because a BS turns a blind eye to the obvious in their marriage does not mean they are not involved or in any way affected by what is happening. When a marriage is over there are consequences. If you are not affected that doesn't mean someone else isn't.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Of course a BS is affected--by her WS having an A. I'm not sure what you're getting at so not sure if that's actually an answer or my assumption of the meaning of your comment/question.

 

I do have a problem with how OW think. How affairs are justified and how they beleive that a R can work if the WS leave their spouses. it's BS.

It's not always BS. Sometimes it is BS. I have no problem with you having a problem with how OW think. Like I said, I don't get how BS feel when they reconcile.

 

What is the foundation of that relationship? Obviously one built on lies which makes it very weak.

DMM never lied to me and as we've started therapy and spent a lot of time on it I believe it more now than ever. Using your logic that it makes it weak, how is it any weaker than a BS reconciling? That is the ultimate betrayal and built on the lie that was the whole time for the A. Look at how many BS have seen something in their WS that made it worth it to reconcile and build something new. It's no different. It's a leap of faith.

 

My responses in bold.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Summer Breeze
An edit didn't sound right

[Summer Breeze]

For the way you are trying to make your point is clear to me that you like to add insult to the injure... I guess you are one of those who get turn on by the idea of taking someone else spouse and brag about it here? The worse thing about the OM/OW is not what they do but how they approach what they do... when I see someone proudly bragging about something they should keep low about... it always gives me an idea about the intelligence of that person...

 

I'm not sure how you took it and however you did was up to you. I responded to a post directed at me. I was told that As weren't Rs and pretty much that they wouldn't work. I countered it with what is happening in my life. I am sorry if it came over as bragging because I wasn't.

 

You're entitled to your opinions of me. I have opinions of people too, we all do. I also don't think I should keep 'low' on what's happening. It's my experience in and after an A. Again you're welcome to your opinion.

[Decorative]

I am open with the fact that I can be judgmental. I use my judgment to discern my environment and who I am interacting with, every single day.

 

I am suspicious in general of those who claim they never judge.

[Decorative]

Ohh but I do judge, I just take a different target...I don't judge the OW/OM because I don't care about them.... my my ex wife... O my God... I can be pretty judgmental about her behavior...

 

you like judging your OW... do you think she cares what you think about her? If she would care at all about you she would have not slept with your husband to begin with....

 

I guess you are better off putting your energies in what you can control than in what you can't control...

 

You don't know me, or how I deal with the OW. LOL

 

I don't sit around seething. She is accountable for her role on the affair. She chose to harm me. I have cut her out of my life- and every time she attempts contact, I swat her away.

 

My main emotion to her is not hate. It's a lot of pity. Some anger when she reaches out to try and nerve me.

 

My main emotion to her is that I would like her to leave me alone forever.

 

But I am not going to forget what she did, or absolve her of blame.

 

I think you are missing the point of what a lot of posters are saying. constructing a strawman, so to speak.

 

There is nothing dangerous or negative in the BS stating that the AP played a role in the affair and made choices. Especially when the AP is a continuing pain in the rear and doesn't get it.

[Decorative]

Seems you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth, it's ok to hate your ex but it's not ok to hate the om..............ummmm. Call me confused.

 

Also you say, "Anyhow if people here is happy to hate their OM/OW, go ahead.... by all means... but don't think by doing so it will improve your lifes at all."

 

What you are saying really doesn't have much logic to it, since you seem to believe that hate is a bad thing, but only when applied to your ex but not the OM.

 

What is that saying? Holding a hot coal in your hand and waiting for it to burn someone else?

[2sure]

It might be worth mentioning that during and after a crisis or betrayal each of our individual reactions is generated by a formula that includes what has happened in our past. Sure, everyone has history, everyone deals with hard hits during life....but for me, my xH's betrayal was kind of the last straw. It put me right over the edge regarding relationships, because prior to him I had been teetering.

I'm fine in other parts of my life. So, it's no wonder there are many different reactions, some extreme, like hate.

[CantgetoveritNY]

 

but I don't hate him, he is a poor soul...

I have to admit that I still hate my ex,

I have to admit that I do wish her all the bad things in the world... she made me go from heaven to hell in one way ticket and I still remember how I felt when it happened...

 

Anyhow if people here is happy to hate their OM/OW, go ahead.... by all means... but don't think by doing so it will improve your lifes at all...

 

How is it going hating your x-wife? Sorry it does not sound like a great path either. I can imagine that in some cases there is no way to avoid it. I may end up there with you soon. But for now mine is at least saying the right things. Although I have a bad feeling about it, feeling like it is going to end up like so many others in another heart break, still right now if I hated my WS I'm sure reconciliation would not be possible. So maybe seeing the WS as victim is a way to allow reconciliation a chance. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not but if you don't give it a chance....

 

I sure don't ever see a down side to hating the predatory OM though.

[Steen719]

In this you are totally right! I wish I would be able to pass my resentment and hate for my ex... is nothing to be proud but I can't for the life of me stop hating her....

 

I do have a strong feeling about hating WS rather than OM as she was the one I trusted, she was the one I loved, she was the one that lived with me, the one I made plans for the future, the one that promised me she will be with me her whole life... at the same time she was sleeping with this other guy...

 

Honestly I wan't surprised that the OM was this guy, he is a moron and you can only expect this moronic behavior from morons... but I would have never expect my wife to be such a moster...

 

My hate has slowly left my heart. It has taken some time for it to do so, but I worked on it daily. Do I still feel resentment towards him? Yes, I would be lying if I said I didn't, but that is slowly leaving my heart also. It is what I pray for because I want to be over it, but for me, not for his sake. Everyone told me that eventually I would get to a point where that was not my main focus and then ultimately, the feelings just would not be there. I am on my way - not there yet, but so much closer to that than I was. Hang in, and hopefully it will happen for you as well.

 

I have no ill will towards the OW. She did not end up with XH, stopped it when I found out. I did not out her - my choice. She has 2 children about my son's age (he was 20 when this first went down, now 22) and I was not willing to hurt them. My son has really suffered and feels differently about his dad. While I blame his dad for his choices, it breaks my heart to see this and I am not sorry I didn't tell her H. Not at all and I didn't need anyone to tell me what to do. I knew, for me, it was the right thing to do. While I think she did the wrong thing, her obligation was to her H and she can live with that. My XH's obligation was to me and he chose to cheat and lie instead of ending our 22 marriage the honorable way. You know what? He has to live with that, too. And if he can, well, good for him. I got sick of worrying about making him suffer or wishing that he would. Once I did, my life has improved by small increments, but I am headed in the right way. I wish that for you as well.