Talking smack about the BS while in A fog

[seren]

If I were going out with someone who kept complaining about another person I would get tired of hearing all the blah blah blah, that the other person so difficult to live with. My response would be then do something about it. I cannot imagine being an OW and listening to the person I cared about talking about their BS who they choose to stay married to, same answer, then do something about it.

I would also wonder that if it were so dammed bad, and what we had so dammed good, why they stay.

 

Sometimes what is said and heard isn't necessarily what is meant or true. I try to not judge a situation unless I can see it for myself, otherwise what is told is usually from one person's view and in the case of an A, I can see many WS saying, My BS doesn't cook meals and I have to rely on ready meals when I come home from work, but not, the reason I have to do this is because I have never learned to cook and help out and the BS is often working late because we are saving for a dream holiday or new car. The OW might hear, poor WS having to eat crap because lazy BS cannot be bothered, I would always ensure he had cooked meals (or whatever).

 

I assure you this is true and one example of how what is said isn't always what is meant or even what is. A WS is hardly going to discuss how great their sex life is or how they laughed like drains over a shared in joke or whatever. I am sure not all WS lie, but I am also sure that most do. I wouldn't want to hear anything that reminded me that the WS had another life that was not hidden and continuing.

[Summer Breeze]

With all due respect, if you were conducting your affair in such a manner as to continually NOT alert his wife to your 'relationship' with her husband, then she was VERY MUCH a part of your affair.

 

Every time you hung up the phone with him when he pulled into his driveway, every day you DIDN'T call him because she was home and he couldn't talk to you, every time you DIDN'T show up on his doorstep to sit and have dinner with his family, it was with HER in mind. The whole reason it was an AFFAIR and not a RELATIONSHIP was because of his wife. Every move you both made was designed to be clandestine in order to keep her UNAWARE.

 

To claim that your affair was NOT about his wife is just ludicrous.

 

You're welcome to think what you will. I called his home phone and I called his cell when I wanted to. I could count the times he was in a car talking to me on 1 hand. There would have been no reason to have dinner with her. I'm still close friends with some of his family and his mother and I met and remained friends. His mother was responsible for one of the ddays as a matter of fact. I didn't make any moves to be clandestine. What he did was up to him but I made it clear from the start I wasn't going to play that game.

 

We very rarely spoke of her and she had no part in our R. You coming on here and saying we did might make you feel like you're affecting that but you're not. I lived it, you didn't.

[jnel921]

Affairs are based on lies. Do you think the OW really knew me? She talked so much smack it was ridiculous. She said my husband was bored with me sexually, that I was controlling and that he would have left me a long time ago but he had no place to go. She obviously wasn't offering him a spot as I told her that perhaps she should consider opening her doors to him as she did her legs.

 

He didn't want to be with her. In the end she was hurt, offended and felt used. Do I feel bad for her. He'll no. You want someone in your life, pick someone who can dedicate his time to you. Why share?

 

I am sure my H said whatever was necessary to seal the deal. That's just how it is. Was I involved? Of course! The damage was to our marriage.

 

If you beleive you A was just about you two you are wrong. You foolishly align your life with his. He will have his wife, family, friends, vacations, home and livelihood and you are an outsider looking in. Waiting for your phone to ring so he can come over get it in and use you like a toilet and go back to the real life his is living with the people he will acknowledge in public.

 

Affairs are secret, wrong, hurtful and destroy lives. Think twice before you decide to be with a married person. Thinking it cam turn into a relationship is delusional.

[frozensprouts]

whether or not an affair partner may be involved ina marriage may be a matter of perception...and either side is likely to have a view that may differ greatly from the other side's view...

 

 

If I were another woman, I don't think I'd want to hear a constant stream of insults about the wife of the married guy I was seeing. I wouldn't want to be his therapist or his place to find absolution from built he was feeling about cheating. Why would I need to be told a bunch of negative things about his wife, as if I was already in the affair, it probably doesn't matter too much what his wife is /isn't like...if it didn't matter before, why would it matter now?

[Summer Breeze]

Affairs are based on lies. Do you think the OW really knew me? She talked so much smack it was ridiculous. She said my husband was bored with me sexually, that I was controlling and that he would have left me a long time ago but he had no place to go. She obviously wasn't offering him a spot as I told her that perhaps she should consider opening her doors to him as she did her legs.

 

He didn't want to be with her. In the end she was hurt, offended and felt used. Do I feel bad for her. He'll no. You want someone in your life, pick someone who can dedicate his time to you. Why share?

 

I am sure my H said whatever was necessary to seal the deal. That's just how it is. Was I involved? Of course! The damage was to our marriage.

 

If you beleive you A was just about you two you are wrong. You foolishly align your life with his. He will have his wife, family, friends, vacations, home and livelihood and you are an outsider looking in. Waiting for your phone to ring so he can come over get it in and use you like a toilet and go back to the real life his is living with the people he will acknowledge in public.

 

Affairs are secret, wrong, hurtful and destroy lives. Think twice before you decide to be with a married person. Thinking it cam turn into a relationship is delusional.

 

I'm not sure if this was directed at me but since it went well beyond the OP and into some of what I said about myself I'll respond as though it were.

 

You may have been involved in their A. That's not for me to say. I wasn't in on their private time together and I wasn't privy to the fallout that you were. But it's also not for you or anyone else to say what did or did not happen, or whether or not his xW was involved in our R. You weren't there and you have no idea what was or wasn't said and done. She was not involved in our R.

 

Your sweeping comments demeaning all As is nothing but a sweeping comment meant for you to minimize all As to what you want them all to be. If that's what works for you then more power to you. Not all As are like that any more than all MMs talk trash about their Ws.

 

Your last line is very wrong. An A is an R. And if you're referring to it being a LTR and the MMs M ending then no, I'm not delusional. Since he divorced his W we've been building the R back and even further.

[CantgetoveritNY]

Affairs are based on lies. Do you think the OW really knew me? She talked so much smack it was ridiculous. She said my husband was bored with me sexually, that I was controlling and that he would have left me a long time ago but he had no place to go. She obviously wasn't offering him a spot as I told her that perhaps she should consider opening her doors to him as she did her legs.

 

He didn't want to be with her. In the end she was hurt, offended and felt used. Do I feel bad for her. He'll no. You want someone in your life, pick someone who can dedicate his time to you. Why share?

 

I am sure my H said whatever was necessary to seal the deal. That's just how it is. Was I involved? Of course! The damage was to our marriage.

 

If you believe you A was just about you two you are wrong. You foolishly align your life with his. He will have his wife, family, friends, vacations, home and livelihood and you are an outsider looking in. Waiting for your phone to ring so he can come over get it in and use you like a toilet and go back to the real life his is living with the people he will acknowledge in public.

 

Affairs are secret, wrong, hurtful and destroy lives. Think twice before you decide to be with a married person. Thinking it cam turn into a relationship is delusional.

 

I saw this and the reply of Summer Breeze to this. I think Summer is right that there are many types of A's. And Jne921 probably had a different kind. All are (IMO) bad but there are different kinds. For example Jne talks above about the OW being the plaything of the MM. In my wife's A the MM was in that role. The MM was happy to introduce my WS to his friends and wanted as much time with her as possible. Wanted her to marry him. She used him for emotional needs and played him. She had her life with me apart, our friends never heard of him, much less met him. We enjoyed vacations, her children her extended family. She continued to cook and clean and care for me and our home with hardly a clue that anything had changed. She even had frequent and satisfying sex with me and told him all about it. He was looking in from the outside with never had a real chance to have a true R with her. He was just an amusement to her as long as she could get away with it. He begged and groveled to be her toy.

[Summer Breeze]

I saw this and the reply of Summer Breeze to this. I think Summer is right that there are many types of A's. And Jne921 probably had a different kind. All are (IMO) bad but there are different kinds. For example Jne talks above about the OW being the plaything of the MM. In my wife's A the MM was in that role. The MM was happy to introduce my WS to his friends and wanted as much time with her as possible. Wanted her to marry him. She used him for emotional needs and played him. She had her life with me apart, our friends never heard of him, much less met him. We enjoyed vacations, her children her extended family. She continued to cook and clean and care for me and our home with hardly a clue that anything had changed. She even had frequent and satisfying sex with me and told him all about it. He was looking in from the outside with never had a real chance to have a true R with her. He was just an amusement to her as long as she could get away with it. He begged and groveled to be her toy.

 

I find that so sad for both you and him, and absolutely cruel of her to the both of you. I'm sorry I don't know your story but hope that if you are reconciling she's doing right by you. If you've chosen to not reconcile I wish you the best moving forward.

[CantgetoveritNY]

I find that so sad for both you and him, and absolutely cruel of her to the both of you. I'm sorry I don't know your story but hope that if you are reconciling she's doing right by you. If you've chosen to not reconcile I wish you the best moving forward.

 

 

Thank you. I do think she was cruel and selfish in her A. To both myself and the MM. I see the MM as he had it coming but at the same time, wow, he sure paid a heavy price. But she is only cruel at times. She is multifaceted. I don't know what to expect. I am undecided about reconciliation at this point. she says she wants to learn from this. She says she feels bad that she let herself be so heartless to us both. I don't know yet if she is just telling me what she thinks I want to hear.

[cocorico]

Affairs and lies go hand and hand. There's just no way around it.

 

.

 

I'm sure that's so in some, even many, cases.

 

In other cases, there is no need to lie.

 

My partner's xW simply wasn't interested enough for him to ever need to explain where he was going, or what he was doing, or with who. And when we decided we wanted to be together full-time he told her he would be leaving, and why.

 

And he certainly never lied to me, to his kids, to his friends, his family or his colleagues.

 

It's a myth that all As require lying.

[meandmyself]

Well, I am still could not understand for the life of me how a OW/OM could try to defend/justify their R's up to the BS's... I can understand that one person can't always chose the person he/she falls in love with, that the OM/OW don't directly owes something to the BS's (yes I also agree with that!) but when I see a proud OW/OM barging in the forum about his/her affair it brings me the idea of a thief who steals the most priced valuable thing from someone and non content with stealing it goes to show off how nice that valuable is to the previous owner and how the valuable is better fit for him than for the original owner...

 

I guess it all comes to perspectives.. and I only have one side of the view.. but if I would have done something that have broken a family (even when I can understand a person can get in love with a married person), When I could feel proud of my feelings for someone I would not feel proud of how things have happened and the cost that it has taken... I would not go and pass it in the face of the people who is suffering as a result of your actions...

I would never ask an OW/OM to feel sorry for the BS's (actually we don't need no one to feel sorry for us) but what I would like to ask is respect... and coming here to brag on how your WS left his/her BS for you because your R was more real than the one with the BS is very close to someone gloating on others misfortune!

[Summer Breeze]

Well, I am still could not understand for the life of me how a OW/OM could try to defend/justify their R's up to the BS's... I can understand that one person can't always chose the person he/she falls in love with, that the OM/OW don't directly owes something to the BS's (yes I also agree with that!) but when I see a proud OW/OM barging in the forum about his/her affair it brings me the idea of a thief who steals the most priced valuable thing from someone and non content with stealing it goes to show off how nice that valuable is to the previous owner and how the valuable is better fit for him than for the original owner...

 

I guess it all comes to perspectives.. and I only have one side of the view.. but if I would have done something that have broken a family (even when I can understand a person can get in love with a married person), When I could feel proud of my feelings for someone I would not feel proud of how things have happened and the cost that it has taken... I would not go and pass it in the face of the people who is suffering as a result of your actions...

I would never ask an OW/OM to feel sorry for the BS's (actually we don't need no one to feel sorry for us) but what I would like to ask is respect... and coming here to brag on how your WS left his/her BS for you because your R was more real than the one with the BS is very close to someone gloating on others misfortune!

 

I very much agree with a lot of what you've said. I think gloating on either the part of the OW/OM or the BS is bad form. I do accept that when a BS has just found out and their mind is going in a million different directions it's part of the sifting process. What I hate is once a choice to reconcile has been made to keep bringing it up and slating the OW. I say the same when an OW has just faced dday and is blindsided by what really happened and where they are now. I hate it when it goes on and on and the competition is never ending and the hatred manifests in sarcasm and cruel comments (from either party). If you're healing and moving on then do it. The only way I can see it carrying on is if there's a BS or an OW/OM who can't accept what's happened and keep at their opposite number. Take it out on the WS/MM not each other.

[Summer Breeze]

Look I totally agree with what you said in the majority of the post... (specially the highlighted area). I always say that the only one that owes something to the BS is the WS, OM/OW did not have any commitment to the BS.

 

Having said that you need to understand that the big difference between the BS and the OW/OM is the knowledge. In most of the cases the BS remind blind for the full A time while the OW/OM have a capacity of choice that is denied to the BS. This does not give the right to the BS to move against the OW/OM (agree) but the knowledge of someone playing you in your back is something that you may understand is not pleasant...

 

What a OW/OM need to understand is that with their choice they are part of pain of the BS (if there would not be a OW/OM, the A would have not existed). I don't condone the prosecution of the OW/OM, I find it very hypocrite when a BS is more than willing to reconcile with the WS while is hating the OW/OM for the same act... but OW/OM coming to a forum full of BS licking their pain to brag about their affairs is really gloating on the pain of other people (even in the case as you pretend that your affairs would be the most beautiful thing in the world... go and enjoy it but don't come here to pass it in front of our faces...) What do you expect us to say? Do you really think we will ever agree? Please just use your brain and be respectful, people here has passed for very traumatic situations, you don't need to add insult to the injure!

 

You see the A as something that could be avoided if the OW/OM didn't engage. I see it as having 1 common party--the WS. If they didn't participate there would be no A and it wouldn't matter how many OW/OM there were on the earth. That is my opinion I realize but it was formed years ago as a BS. I won't go into it. It's all over the forum and if you have any specifics you want to know you're welcome to PM me.

 

I don't know if the last of your post was aimed directly at me or not. If so I'm sorry my posts offended you but the reality is what I'm living. I will speak about my R with dMM and hopefully won't be disrespectful about it but I won't lie about it either. On the other hand there are a few BS who are quite happily making the same types of comments in the name of support on the other board as well. It goes both ways and it does get ugly from both sides. There are gaping wounds all over the place here and it can be a tough place to be, especially when the wounds are fresh or even when you're having a bad day.

[Spark1111]

I very much agree with a lot of what you've said. I think gloating on either the part of the OW/OM or the BS is bad form. I do accept that when a BS has just found out and their mind is going in a million different directions it's part of the sifting process. What I hate is once a choice to reconcile has been made to keep bringing it up and slating the OW. I say the same when an OW has just faced dday and is blindsided by what really happened and where they are now. I hate it when it goes on and on and the competition is never ending and the hatred manifests in sarcasm and cruel comments (from either party). If you're healing and moving on then do it. The only way I can see it carrying on is if there's a BS or an OW/OM who can't accept what's happened and keep at their opposite number. Take it out on the WS/MM not each other.

 

SB, please trust me on this....much depends on the OW in the triangle.

 

Not ALL OW are the same, just as not all BS are the same.

 

Some are kind, in pain, feel duped, have class, and never bad-mouth the BS....many BS's are like that regarding the OW.

 

But some do, and, feeling victimized by the affair and betrayal of your WS, a hateful, competitive, mean-spirited, manipulative OW just adds a whole 'nother level to the pain.

 

And they're out there. Trust me.

[Summer Breeze]

SB, please trust me on this....much depends on the OW in the triangle.

 

Not ALL OW are the same, just as not all BS are the same.

 

Some are kind, in pain, feel duped, have class, and never bad-mouth the BS....many BS's are like that regarding the OW.

 

But some do, and, feeling victimized by the affair and betrayal of your WS, a hateful, competitive, mean-spirited, manipulative OW just adds a whole 'nother level to the pain.

 

And they're out there. Trust me.

 

I absolutely agree Spark. I think in my post I said that too. I might not have said it very eloquently or clearly but I agree with you that not all are alike at all.

[CantgetoveritNY]

Look I totally agree with what you said in the majority of the post... (specially the highlighted area). I always say that the only one that owes something to the BS is the WS, OM/OW did not have any commitment to the BS.

 

Having said that you need to understand that the big difference between the BS and the OW/OM is the knowledge. In most of the cases the BS remind blind for the full A time while the OW/OM have a capacity of choice that is denied to the BS. This does not give the right to the BS to move against the OW/OM (agree) but the knowledge of someone playing you in your back is something that you may understand is not pleasant...

 

What a OW/OM need to understand is that with their choice they are part of pain of the BS (if there would not be a OW/OM, the A would have not existed). I don't condone the prosecution of the OW/OM, I find it very hypocrite when a BS is more than willing to reconcile with the WS while is hating the OW/OM for the same act... but OW/OM coming to a forum full of BS licking their pain to brag about their affairs is really gloating on the pain of other people (even in the case as you pretend that your affairs would be the most beautiful thing in the world... go and enjoy it but don't come here to pass it in front of our faces...) What do you expect us to say? Do you really think we will ever agree? Please just use your brain and be respectful, people here has passed for very traumatic situations, you don't need to add insult to the injure!

 

Wow. You know I'm not usually thinking you are going easy on anyone meandmyself. However here I think you are. Are you forgetting about the very predatory OW/OM's out there? The ones that seek out vulnerable people in precarious points in their R's? They seek them out and exploit that weakness to get what they want. Sometimes what they want is a true R. Sometimes just kicks. But the way they go about it is really despicable. There are OW's and OM's out there that are to be despised from the BS point of view. These are people that IMO the BS is entitled to feel they have a beef with them. The BS can feel this party owes them a great deal for the predatory acts committed by them. How can you say a BS has no right to ever be angry with the OW / OM?

[Summer Breeze]

Look I have already agreed that the only responsible here is the WS... my point about the OM/OW is merely staying that when of course if the WS was not willing to have an A it would have never happened if the OM/OW would have not decided to do it it would have not happened either...

 

I am not defending any BS going to the OM/OW forum looking for war, the possibilities of understanding and getting a common point of view are very limited. Looking for war and claiming you're right and others are wrong from the very beginning is a loosed war.

I am also not saying that OM/OW are not welcome here, specially because I am no one to say who is welcome or not here..

But when you go to a forum when you know most of the people are BS using the minimum common sense the OW/OM could avoid to add salt to the injure...

I would never would go to a forum of "smokers with long cancer" and tell them that if they are going to die is because the used to smoke... maybe is true but it doesn't add any value, it will only add pain...

 

I don't know if you understand my point here but I hope it comes clear, I don't hate OW/OM, I don't judge them, I don't think they are the problem, but please be respectful with people who is suffering!

 

And I pointed out there are a certain group of BS who do exactly the same on the OW board regardless of the pain there either. I think we kind of agree and I'm good with that.

[CantgetoveritNY]

What I think is that we tend to focus our attention in the OW/OM to avoid having to confront the reality that the one that has really deceive us is that person that we trusted and we loved.

 

As much manipulative or predatory as an OM/OW can be, nothing would happen if the WS would stay truth to his/her vows...

 

We can try to lie to ourselves and hate the OW/OM as much as we want victimizing our WS's but the cruel truth is that we have been played by the persons who we loved... OM/OW don't owe us anything, if they want sex, or a R, is their own choice, if they like our WS is their own choice... the one that is in a committed relationship and owes respect and loyalty to the BS is solely the WS....

 

Ok, well what do I owe to the OM that knowingly went after my wife? He was not in the dark about whether or not she was married. So what do I owe him? I feel entitled to deal with him as I see fit. He attempted to ruin my family and has come close to succeeding. There was another thread here that compared the effect of such a predator to a rapist and child molester. I have no problem with BS's that want to exact revenge on such people.

[Spark1111]

What I think is that we tend to focus our attention in the OW/OM to avoid having to confront the reality that the one that has really deceive us is that person that we trusted and we loved.

 

As much manipulative or predatory as an OM/OW can be, nothing would happen if the WS would stay truth to his/her vows...

 

We can try to lie to ourselves and hate the OW/OM as much as we want victimizing our WS's but the cruel truth is that we have been played by the persons who we loved... OM/OW don't owe us anything, if they want sex, or a R, is their own choice, if they like our WS is their own choice... the one that is in a committed relationship and owes respect and loyalty to the BS is solely the WS....

 

Yes, this is very true and completely normal!

 

Deflection of anger and pain actually protects the psyche of complete trauma: the betrayal of someone who was suppose to love us and protect the marriage at all costs.

 

I liken it to the your child's fight on the playground. You wan't to pummel the bully who started this because your child doesn't have a violent bone in their body; certainly not that you have ever seen.

 

Then the teacher tells you your child started it, and it takes a long time to process that. But you will do that when, and only when, you are ready to.

 

Same with disparaging the AP or the BS. When you are ready to deal with it, both barrels will be pointed squarely at where the blame lies --with the MAP.

[CantgetoveritNY]

M&M You said:

 

OM/OW don't owe us anything, if they want sex, or a R, is their own choice, if they like our WS is their own choice.

 

 

You don't think that is bad thing to allow them to choose to act like that? They owe it to society to not act so destructively. It is like saying the other drivers on the road did not promise not to drink and drive so don't blame them if they kill your wife while doing that. If they choose to go after your spouse all is not ok just b.c your spouse said ok. There is still something to be settled between the BS and the other person.

[Summer Breeze]

M&M You said:

 

OM/OW don't owe us anything, if they want sex, or a R, is their own choice, if they like our WS is their own choice.

 

 

You don't think that is bad thing to allow them to choose to act like that? They owe it to society to not act so destructively. It is like saying the other drivers on the road did not promise not to drink and drive so don't blame them if they kill your wife while doing that. If they choose to go after your spouse all is not ok just b.c your spouse said ok. There is still something to be settled between the BS and the other person.

 

 

I understand what you're trying to say but the analogy is more like your W willingly getting into the vehicle with a drunk driver rather than innocently being on the road. I know your post wasn't directed at me and sorry if I jumped in where I shouldn't have.

[CantgetoveritNY]

 

Lets see it this way, if I give you 5$ and ask you to hold on them for me and you go ahead and give this 5$ to someone else... do I go and ask that someone else for the 5$ or it is you the one who owe me the money?

 

Lets go with this. Lets say the person that ultimately ended up with the $5 has a long history of getting people to give up money they are holding for others. A long and sordid history of being good at conning otherwise trustworthy people into giving up money. What then? Still no reason for me to want to do something about the person who has the $5?

[MissBee]

whether or not an affair partner may be involved ina marriage may be a matter of perception...and either side is likely to have a view that may differ greatly from the other side's view...

 

 

If I were another woman, I don't think I'd want to hear a constant stream of insults about the wife of the married guy I was seeing. I wouldn't want to be his therapist or his place to find absolution from built he was feeling about cheating. Why would I need to be told a bunch of negative things about his wife, as if I was already in the affair, it probably doesn't matter too much what his wife is /isn't like...if it didn't matter before, why would it matter now?

 

Ditto...

 

The least I knew the better.

 

But he'd have won absolutely no points and things would have ended a lot quicker if he had discussed her a lot, especially negatively. It would really decrease my attraction to him.

 

But different things float different people's boats I guess.

[2.50 a gallon]

IIRCC one of the big 10 that was given to us by Moses is about not coveting your neighbors wife.

[cocorico]

If I were another woman, I don't think I'd want to hear a constant stream of insults about the wife of the married guy I was seeing. I wouldn't want to be his therapist or his place to find absolution from built he was feeling about cheating. Why would I need to be told a bunch of negative things about his wife, as if I was already in the affair, it probably doesn't matter too much what his wife is /isn't like...if it didn't matter before, why would it matter now?

 

Exactly.

 

Plus, if "our" time was contaminated by talking about *their* M, I'd be rather pissed off. I'm too selfish to share like that.

[road]

I am very sorry about your situation, I really am!, but if your H would have divorced you without an affair and then married with another person you would still need to face the fact that there will be a step mom and you can like her or not.. but is not anymore you decision (but your H decision) who she will be. This is not directly related to an affair even when in your case the step mom is what at the moment was the OW.

 

You still don't have to have a relationship with this woman, fortunately I didn't have children with my WS, but I have seen often arrangements where both parts implicated in a divorce don't have to face each other if they don't want, not even to bring the children to the other party, you can always have someone else to bring and pick up the children if you hate that woman that much... so how much involved are you with the OW is your own choice.

 

There will be the pain of the marriage ending without the pain if being cheated on.

 

The step mom will not be the OW that tore your family apart.

 

Sad that you can not see ther basic diference why you must end one relationship before you start a new relationship.