it's all your fault!

[Summer Breeze]

I don't think this is what the thread is about, since the OP is about those knowingly in affairs, so they knowingly involve themselves in the deceit of the BS. Perhaps there are things the BS has done that he or she should accept responsibility for, but the status of being a BS in itself is not something that one needs to accept blame for. As to blame between the WS and AP, they can both be held responsible, each for their own behavior. The blame is not the same, it is not equal, but each can be held responsible for their role in a deceptive affair. So, I don't see how your example, or others who want to focus on blame of the BS, addresses the OP.

 

I have never once in my life said a BS deserves blame for an A. In my post I was responding to someone else who was basically making a definitive statement that blameshifting was used to ease guilt. Period. I was making the comment I've seen it used to ease fear too. I didn't quote the OP so I was adding my thoughts to a comment that addressed the OP. Something posters do in here day in and day out.

 

I have never believed blame should lie with anyone but the WS. No secret. Twenty some years ago as a BS I held only my xH accountable and I feel the same today. Everyone is entitled to feel what they feel and that's how I have always felt, and still do. So no. I don't hold both parties accountable. I fully accept my role as the OW in the A with dMM but that is for what happened in my life. He made the decisions that affeced his life. My xH was the one making every decision to cheat when he had his A. To me it would have been ludicrous to blame his OW. THAT is how I feel. Anyone is welcome to disagree and feel how they do. Now I'm digressing in response to your post and I apologize for that OP.

[Summer Breeze]

True, for those who consider the OM/OW totally at fault for seducing their spouse, and they envision their spouse as a victim of an evil person. There ARE those who will only blame the AP, rather than their own WS. Both participants are to blame for the affair (WS and AP), because both have crossed boundaries and damaged a marriage, and without either participant, there would be no infidelity. The BS and the WS can both take the blame for the unhealthy state of their marriage, although in some marriages where the WS is just an entitled narcissist with no boundaries or respect for his marriage or his spouse, sometimes there is only one spouse to blame for the unhealthy state of the marriage.

 

As I said in one of my last two posts on this thread. I wasn't assigning blame to anyone. I was responding to a post that made a statement about blameshifting.

[Summer Breeze]

A question re: people who get involved in affairs...

 

something I have noticed since the first days when I came on this board ( was trying to work my through my husband having cheated) is that so many people who get involved in affairs ( be they married or other person) seem to almost be "swept along" with things and some even want to assign blame for their behaviors to the other person in the affair...

 

I can see if a married person lies to the other man/woman and says they are not married that they aren't really, in effect, responsible for their actions, as they made their decisions based on a complete lie ( i think there should be some special kind of torment for people who lie like that)...but I just don't get the lines like " it's his fault I am feeling bad right now" or " she made me do it"..it just seems so common...

 

I'm wondering what the reason is for this? Is it shifting the blame out of guilt over what happened, is it naivety, or is it that some people are just more easily influenced than others? Maybe a combination of the three?

 

I'm not trying to sound smug ( and I am sorry if it comes off that way), but I've been hit on by lots of married guys in my time, and I never give them a second glance. Even when I wasn't married I didn't, because they were married. I've also had married guys who were friends ( still do) , and few of them tried to turn it into something more ( you can kind of tell what's up when they start lamenting the state of their marriage:laugh:)...again, as soon as that happens, the friendship is over. The nice words just kind of bounce off...had I decided to get involved with one of the, that , and any negative fallout, would have been on me.

 

I was fortunate in that my husband didn't blame "the other woman" for what happened...but she did try and blame him, me and everyone else...still does, and I know that I'm going to hear about it all over again from her at the upcoming squadron holiday party...for some reason, her new thing is to try and convince me that "it was all his fault" or "it's all your fault" or " I didn't know what I was doing"...:laugh::laugh::laugh: come on, at 35 years of age you didn't know what you were doing?

 

it's so lame that it's funny, and I can actually find something amusing about it now ( i probably shouldn't, but finding it funny is better than finding it sad...she's supposed to stay well away from me, but I kind of let it pass at these functions, as it's just easier that way)...

 

I think I'm just trying to understand that mindset a bit more...for people like her, why is everything always someone else's fault?

 

I'm sorry but I tried to really follow your OP and almost couldn't. I tend to think you had a psycho for an OW and she has probably never had responsibility for anything in her life so it doesn't really surprise me that she doesn't let go. The one thing that does come to mind is that I seem to recall she's a serial cheater and she was moving on to other men soon after their A. Does she stalk all of these men and their spouses or is it just your H and you? I'd think she wouldn't have enough time in the day to chase after everyone and if she didn't I'd wonder why she fixed on you guys.

 

Back to my original thought. All of your posts about her have said she's unstable and I think it's a small minority of OW that are like that. I think she's probably an extreme all to herself. I imagine she probably blames someone for every bad thing in her life.

 

As far as people taking responsibility for their actions. I think you're working that in too OP. I take full responsibility for my actions in every part of my life but I will not take responsibility for someone elses. Just because someone blames me for something it doesn't make me responsible for what they blame me for.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Summer Breeze

[j'adore]

I'm not attacking here but may I ask did you fall in love while still married? Were you intimate with this person while still married? And if you fell out of love with your spouse why didn't you leave before persuing someone else?

 

Am I understanding your situation correctly?

IMO it would be impossible not to be intimate with some one you love. Goes against what many BS think obviously, but that is my view. If you want more info pm me.

[woinlove]

I have never once in my life said a BS deserves blame for an A. In my post I was responding to someone else who was basically making a definitive statement that blameshifting was used to ease guilt. Period. I was making the comment I've seen it used to ease fear too. I didn't quote the OP so I was adding my thoughts to a comment that addressed the OP. Something posters do in here day in and day out.

 

I know you didn't blame the BS, I was just pointing out how understanding the BS's actions are quite different from understanding why an OW may not accept responsibility for her role in a deceptive affair. There were other posts also moving the topic to the BS, so I thought it would be useful to get back on the topic of of the OP - OW accepting responsibility. It's possible some OW may not accept responsibility out of fear, but I think guilt and wanting to feel good about oneself, is likely more common - for those OW who do see something wrong with engaging in deceptive affairs.

[Spark1111]

We will have to agree to disagree. This is how I look at it, and it is also my personal experience:

 

 

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/200807/guilt-is-wasted-emotion

 

Interesting concept, but it doesn't apply to us. You can judge me, but Ichoose whether I accept and internalize it and therefore validate it.

 

I forgave the affair pretty quickly. The lying just about killed me, but after reading here and elsewhere It's part and parcel of the affair dynamic.

 

The demonization of me hurt me deeply because it was so unfair and I lived hurt an confused as to what was changing us, but I learned that was another ingredient to a triangle dynamic.

 

IN counseling we hammered this point as it WAS impeding our healing, and I so wanted him to get to a point of acceptance and healing.

 

Still waiting It very well could bethe voice of his harsh father or critical mother that promotes his self-judgement, but I can't fix it and I didn't cause it.

[Spark1111]

I think from what I have read about your sit' date='AND THIS IS MY OBSERVATION GENERALLY that it is YOU that will never forgive him or forget and that is why you are here, but that is my opinion after studying this forum and this is true of many BSs.[/quote']

 

Oh you will never forget a betrayal of someone you loved and trusted with your whole heart and soul. That would take a lobotomy.

 

But you can forgive and move forward as evidenced by all the happily reconciled posters here.

 

You can learn from others who have walked a mile or two in your shoes, if you want to.

 

You can learn about the many typical behaviors of the WS as reported by the BS as witnessed during the affair. You can share your pain after DDay and be listened to with compassion and understanding.

 

There are many of us here to help, to give back what we were given when the pain was so fresh.

 

Sorry you perceive this as not being able to forgive or move on because I'm sure that looks different to different people.

[frozensprouts]

Oh you will never forget a betrayal of someone you loved and trusted with your whole heart and soul. That would take a lobotomy.

 

But you can forgive and move forward as evidenced by all the happily reconciled posters here.

 

You can learn from others who have walked a mile or two in your shoes, if you want to.

 

You can learn about the many typical behaviors of the WS as reported by the BS as witnessed during the affair. You can share your pain after DDay and be listened to with compassion and understanding.

 

There are many of us here to help, to give back what we were given when the pain was so fresh.

 

Sorry you perceive this as not being able to forgive or move on because I'm sure that looks different to different people.

 

forgiving isn't the same as forgetting...and one can move on even if they don't forget...

If I had an illness and recovered, but still remember what it was like to be very sick, does that mean I haven't moved on? Of course not! It simply means that I remember...

there is more to life that the here and now...there is yesterday, which you learn from, and tomorrow, which you do your best to prepare for and make better than yesterday and today

[cocorico]

I haven't personally met any split-self MM...but the ones I hear about on LS don't seem to be dealing with anything but seem to be in the same position as ever. In an A, married, never leaving and why? Because of xyz thing that they have still not overcome.

 

I haven't heard anyone bring up split self and then show how this MM has grown and overcome it and is making better, empowering choices. Most often it is employed by the OW to explain why he can never leave.

But I haven't seen any cases where it has been brought up where an OW or BS is talking about how through his split-self nature and EMR he then grew and stopped the A and worked on his M or left his M and moved on....it almost always seems to be a case of "He can't/isn't leaving and I accept it because he is split-self". This particular stance is what seems codependent. If a man/woman is split-self or whatever his issue...what does that have to do with your choice to ride that rollercoaster with them?

 

My H was classic "split-self". He went to IC, did the work he needed to, and successfully left his M. I certainly never saw it as my role to "ride a roller coaster" with him, or to excuse anything. We decided to be together and we both did what we needed to do to make it so. There was never any question of it being an excuse - but the knowledge was very useful in understanding the situation and how best to resolve it - as his IC successfully did. So I do not think "split self" is simply an excuse - not here on LS, nor anywhere in the real world.

[MissBee]

My H was classic "split-self". He went to IC, did the work he needed to, and successfully left his M. I certainly never saw it as my role to "ride a roller coaster" with him, or to excuse anything. We decided to be together and we both did what we needed to do to make it so. There was never any question of it being an excuse - but the knowledge was very useful in understanding the situation and how best to resolve it - as his IC successfully did. So I do not think "split self" is simply an excuse - not here on LS, nor anywhere in the real world.

 

I'm very happy that you did not use split-self as an excuse and that you did not ride a roller coaster with him and that your exMM/H divorced and went to counseling. Those are wonderful things.

 

However, I find it exasperating that you bring up how things weren't the case for you as a means to negate points that are indeed true for some. I think it's one thing if I named you as such an individual or even tried to make some absolute statement that this is always/never the case, then your example of your own life, logically disproves it...yet, I was not speaking about you neither did I say that nowhere on earth could a split self MM overcome it. It's silly and bold for you to use your own life and what happened for you to emphatically state that no person who has ever lived or used LS has ever used it as an excuse. You cannot prove this. You can only speak for yourself.

 

What I did was point out that I know no self-diagnosed or professionally diagnosed split-self MM offline and I only have seen 2 posters on LS, to be specific, bring it up and in the cases where these posters have gone on about it, the MM is still married, they're still the OW, it's been years and one such poster even said she has accepted he'll never leave because of his split-self. This is not your experience, but I've seen it with my own two eyes here...so you saying what happened for you doesn't change that for others.

 

You often discuss "the real world" as though you're the only one who lives in it and the rest of us reside in some alternate, fictive universe. However, I think it is very narrow minded and logically flawed to set out to disprove something through the use of your own life circumstance...as though, your anecdotal evidence is the final say on whether or not things are true.

 

The thread is discussing blame and responsibility and the point has been brought up that some people (who yes, live in the real world) simply refuse to take any responsibility for their actions and in As, sometimes OW/OM, WS or BSs as well will also make excuses for the people they love. Anything can be an excuse, even legitimate issues. Therefore, split-self, even if a MM does have it, CAN be one such excuse for why someone rides the roller coaster.

 

Again, I respect your experience but I cannot take seriously your stance that "No one else on earth ever uses split-self as an excuse (or insert other issue) because I didn't". Which is essentially what you're saying. I stand by my claim, and observation, that people often shift around blame and split-self is merely one thing SOME folks employ for this. It not being true for you doesn't affect my observation...as I did not accuse you of this neither did I say every person who uses split-self theory does this. I spoke with very specific parameters.

[seren]

Seems to me that one person's reason is another person's excuse, it depends on what role you have in the A. There are numerous reasons why someone has an A, but nothing excuses having an A. In some marriages both BS and WS have 'blame' for the breakdown of the marriage, but nothing within that marriage problem excuses an A, IMHO. Using my own situation, as many will have read, my H had an A after PTSD (Iraq, military, my cancer, him not feeling good enough) all reasons why someone might feel like the real world was out of control and them not being able to fix things, or good enough. But, no excuse for how he dealt with any of it. My H tried to blame the OW, but I was having none of it, even though she said she set out to 'get' my H, he allowed himself to not so much be got, but he went and had an A. His bad for dealing with his situation by not facing problems, mine for not pushing rather than waiting for the truth. But again, no excuse. Now, he blames himself for the A and the marriage problems, I remind him that the marriage problems were 50% owned by me too. Our marriage, our relationship, our problems. The A? No.

 

Split self A's or cake eating? I understand the academics of split self A's, the, usually long term marriage which may have love, but not the have the same love or attraction for the relationship side of it. It is possible to love and want to stay, but crave intimacy, if it is missing. I also can understand that a split self feels torn between the ties of marriage, and if missing, the intimacy of a loving relationship. I don't or maybe couldn't accept this as an reason for the WS to have an A, but I do see it as a excuse, if some seek intimacy with another if they have tried and failed, if they are in love with the AP but are indoctrinated into believing staying is the right thing to do, even if I think they should speak up and either try to rekindle intimacy in the marriage or get a divorce. I also think it indefensible to believe that staying while cheating is the right thing to do, no one should feel they are so indispensable to a marriage that cheating enables them to stay in that marriage and rob a BS of informed choice.

 

I don't think I could be the AP waiting (for many split self A's are long term) for the WS to sort out their lives and there is an element of cake eating, I think it enables the marriage to continue as both needs are being met, I also think that in a split self A, the blame for it continuing rests with the WS as they don't do something about it and yes, maybe the AP enables the split self A to continue as they use the supposed unselfish attitude of the AP, staying in the big bad marriage for the greater good as an excuse for them not leaving. So, maybe they (WS) blame the role and responsibility they perceive themselves as having within the marriage as a reason for an A, may also blame the BS, but few blame themselves for not having the spine to do anything about it.

 

Whether the WS blames the BS or the AP they are way out of line, the blame for the continuing to remain married, no matter how bad or dysfunctional lies with the WS, no excuses.

[aed]

There is nothing your spouse can do that's makes you cheat on them! Except when they threaten to kill you when you would leave them,and you fell in love with someone else. But I don't think people will ever cheat when they are married/ or in a relationship with someone like that.

 

When someone got involved in a impulsive drunk ONS can happen (and how to handle that is a different discussion) but for having an affaire and blaming it on your spouse is just avoiding responsability

[MissBee]

That's not how I read that post. It sounded to me like MissBee was just using herself as an example, not saying that her experiences represent the general public's, as the other poster was.

 

Ditto.

 

I'm not sure what part of my post was unclear. But I'll reiterate. As I said to coco, I respect her experiences as her own. I cannot and have never tried to tell her or anyone else that a particular thing isn't true FOR THEM....of course it can be! What I took an issue with was the "this isn't/wasn't true for us... [and also]no one else on LS or in the real world" part. As that is unverifiable and plain hubris.

 

I did not use any anecdotal evidence about my life or other people's lives to make a categorical statement about all people. I spoke specifically about the times I've seen split-self theory employed on LS and how it was used and that in those specific times it was an excuse. My discussion was on those specific times, and it was a very specific parameter. I did not make a blanket statement about all people who've experienced/used it. What i said was straightforward and only says stuff about those times and those people and not the theory on a whole or anyone else in the world using it. Yet coco said, well my husband and I did this, so I don't see split-self as an excuse on LS or anywhere in the "real world". Whaaat???? The latter clearly is using one's own life to then say what's true/untrue for all of LS and all of "the real world"...which sorry, you don't get to do that and I most certainly don't get to do it either....and I didn't.

 

But back on topic...

[frozensprouts]

Who is "you people"? Anyone you don't agree with? Yes, ironies abound. But some people are having extreme difficulty staying on the topic of why would the OW blameshift and not take responsibility for her own actions? Maybe this thread is not giving a lot of answers but it does seem to be giving a lot of examples. I suppose that, in itself, is useful.

 

FS, are you gaining some insight from this thread? While I never felt it, I think there there is a surprisingly amount of animosity toward BW's from some OW. Blameshifting may be one of the manifestations. Why does it exist, I don't know. But, on another thread MissBee compared it to feelings toward the new partner of an ex one still has feelings for, even when the R with the ex was ended and there is no reason to be angry at the new partner. I found that analogy useful.

 

 

I'm getting a bit more of an understanding, and it's not just other women, but married men/women who do it too. Seems to be a lot of "I wouldn't have done it if it weren't for them"...

 

that's what I don't get...how can person A "make" person B do something they don't want, on some level, to do, and how is person A responsible for person B making the choices they did...let alone person C ( betrayed spouse)...

[MissBee]

Since I'm one of the posters who has posted about split self affairs on LS, I can tell you you're wrong. Cocorico described perfectly what is true in my case:

 

 

 

It's amazing to me how so many LS posters look down on knowledge. The thinking on here often reminds me of the ignorance that used to be prevalent about alcoholism when alcoholism was considered a character flaw rather than a disease. People were very judgmental. Hopefully in the future knowledge about EMRs will be more widespread too.

 

I'm not interested in arguing with you about your situation. Especially since most times even directly after you've said something and I, or anyone else, brings it up you respond by saying you do not recognize it or it isn't true. I don't know how to have such conversations...

 

I don't think anyone looks down on knowledge. I certainly don't and am in the field of knowledge production.

 

To the topic of the thread and my point: for OW who point the blame elsewhere, they can and do employ various excuses and explanations. An excuse can be anything. One can use legitimate problems or issues as an excuse, as well as fabricating things out of thin air. When something becomes an excuse is probably the point of contention. Understanding something and using it as an excuse are different and some OW, re split-self, seem to move beyond understanding to excusing.

 

I can certainly understand the concept of split-self; however, if an OW is constantly bringing it up upon being in an A for years and years (esp if she admits she would rather it not be an A), it starts to seem more like that person's excuse to not choose differently, than simply a point of "understanding". Feel free to disagree, as I'm sure you will. An explanation, IMO and IME, is just that. An excuse usually entails some level of justification, rationalizing, and seems to always need to be used again and again and again. I gave my example of when I dated my ex who had a legitimate attachment disorder...that was a real problem. I however, got caught up in it as an excuse and always was trying to explain his bad behavior and my enabling, by saying "But he's such and such a way". I pretty much got a PhD in attachment disorders ...and my understanding of it became a bit pathological...all in an attempt to really focus on him and his issues and stick around for it. I didn't need to continue trying to be with him or explain his behavior to others because I understood it...that's when it became a facade, an excuse and a distraction. I think the use of the split-self theory often can also function in that way. Alcoholism, while a serious problem, can also be employed by an enabler to say this is why they have to put up with, are helping, or no one understands this person but them. When does it stop? I had to learn for myself.

 

Point is: whether you do it or not is hardly the point. Which is also my contention with coco, I accused neither you or her of anything, but you've both attempted to use your experiences to negate a general theory that in fact does apply to many people. It is very common for people in relationships to play out dysfunctional patterns, as Spark pointed out, where one has some real or imagined problem and the other is their advocate and often enabler who is also avoiding their own responsibility. Psychologists deal with this all the time and usually with alcoholics or any other addiction or problem, there is an enabler and the psychologist usually needs to speak with that person's spouse/mother/father or whoever it is who plays that role of advocate-enabler-excuser, and unsurprisingly, those people usually have a difficult time seeing themselves as such. Certainly, my mom for example, while we can agree my dad is a serial cheater and people would feel badly for her...she is also where she wants to be and makes excuses for his "problems". I hold her responsible, just as I would an OW holding a split-self man's hand for all eternity, for using their problem as an excuse to stick around amidst foolishness.

Edited December 2, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

I think where you and I differ in this context is that I use something I learnt in Al-Anon: The fact that your spouse/SO is afflicted by alcoholism does not in any way mean that you need to give up the relationship. You can work on your own progress as an individual and detach from your SO's alcoholism so as not to be an enabler whether or not you stay with him. I apply the same principle to being in a relationship with a MM. The fact that he has issues does not mean that I can not be in a healthy relationship with him. His issues are his issues to take care off. And thereby I have no need to blame anybody for anything. We can all take ownership and responsibility for our own actions and choices.

 

I believe someone can have certain issues and be in a relatively healthy relationship.

 

You and I differ however, in that I don't believe affairs are a healthy relationship. So if you're also in an affair with a man who is described as split-self, I'm not really sure how the "healthy relationship" element works.

 

Some issues seem to preclude the ability to have a healthy relationship. I would think it difficult, and rather bizarre, to be able to be in affair with a split-self man, that is described as healthy while also saying "His split-self isn't my problem...we can just section it off and continue our relationship." I think what makes one split-self it seems would also directly impact any other relationship as his split-self problem is not because of a certain woman, but his own problems, so whether OW or W...you still have an issue.

 

Like cocorico's example where her husband got counseling, worked on it and resolved his split-self and moved on to be with her. I can support a situation like that as healthy...as growth. There is proof in the pudding that this man did not wallow in split-self indefinitely as she continued being with him. On the other hand, with a MM whose OW just sections off his split-self or what have you, and says look he has split-self, but we can still have a relationship...as his issues persist year after year...to me is not in a healthy relationship. How exactly is he working on anything and how exactly is this affair helping him if it continues year after year, esp if the OW pretty much resigns herself to him never leaving? One has simply ignored the elephant in the room in that case...and I don't see anything healthy about that.

 

You cannot convince me that being in a years long affair with a split-self man, esp if you wish it wasn't an affair, but resign yourself to it, is healthy. Sorry. I'll never come to see anything healthy in that. But you can of course believe as you will.

Edited December 2, 2012 by MissBee

[Spark1111]

Since I'm one of the posters who has posted about split self affairs on LS, I can tell you you're wrong. Cocorico described perfectly what is true in my case:

 

 

 

It's amazing to me how so many LS posters look down on knowledge. The thinking on here often reminds me of the ignorance that used to be prevalent about alcoholism when alcoholism was considered a character flaw rather than a disease. People were very judgmental. Hopefully in the future knowledge about EMRs will be more widespread too.

 

Doesn't having an affair with a man who may or may not be suffering from a split-self also enable him to continue to be split?

 

My understanding is that the compartmentalism does not come naturally to such a person; their guilt is profound and they are often suicidal on DDay.

 

has a professional made this diagnosis of your MM?

[Spark1111]

As a betrayed spouse it was only with the knowledge of my husband's affair that gave me the ownership of my own destiny, and the right to the reality that was denied me.

 

I honestly did not want to hear excuses or play the blame game, and wished my husband well in his new life.

 

 

It's ironic that you can discuss the virtue of knowledge, and then conspire with your MM to deny his wife the knowledge she deserves about her own reality.

Is there an excuse for this?

 

If my H was a split-self I gave him the freedom to split from me and go be happy.

 

I was tired of being blamed for all that ailed him. I just wanted to make an informed choice for my future.

 

And initially, for several months, I did not choose him. When I removed myself from the triangle dynamic, it was liberating.

 

No one to pick on me anymore; no one to pick a half-baked argument anymore so they could be with their OW. No more criticisms or emotional distancing. No one angry that I told people of the affair. No one claiming I was there for the paycheck as I didn't want a dime.

 

interesting when I made it as easy for him to leave, it was the last thing he wanted.

[Decorative]

As a betrayed spouse it was only with the knowledge of my husband's affair that gave me the ownership of my own destiny, and the right to the reality that was denied me.

 

I honestly did not want to hear excuses or play the blame game, and wished my husband well in his new life.

 

 

It's ironic that you can discuss the virtue of knowledge, and then conspire with your MM to deny his wife the knowledge she deserves about her own reality.

Is there an excuse for this?

 

Exactly. I appreciated the reality based knowledge I gained, and acted accordingly. I totally appreciate knowledge.

 

I have never appreciated excuses, blameshifting, lack of responsibility, or flights of fancy.

 

But knowledge? Knowledge is power. I love that stuff.

[ThatJustHappened]

No, we can't all share the same views. But here is a prime example of what I was talking of:

 

 

 

The disinterest and disdain towards trying to understand what lies behind a certain behavior.

 

There's a huge difference between understanding what's behind a certain behavior and doing something to change it. If cake-eating does stem from a psychological disorder, shouldn't the cake eater get help instead of indulging his or her problem? And wouldn't the affair partner be considered an enabler? If cake-eating is an addiction or a psychological issue, as you say, then helping a cake-eater cheat is like handing a bottle of vodka to an alcoholic.

[Furious]

It's exactly by being in the EMR that the MP may become clear on what his/her troubles are and go and seek help. You see the problem is not the infidelity.

 

 

Being in an affair did not help my husband become clear on what his troubles were, if anything it enabled him to be more troubled.

 

It was my discovery of the affair and the suitcase I handed him that highlighted his troubles and propelled him to seek help.

 

It seems many WS's are more inclined to get help when the affair is discovered rather than when they're embroiled in an affair.

[Decorative]

Being in an affair did not help my husband become clear on what his troubles were, if anything it enabled him to be more troubled.

 

It was my discovery of the affair and the suitcase I handed him that highlighted his troubles and propelled him to seek help.

 

It seems many WS's are more inclined to get help when the affair is discovered rather than when they're embroiled in an affair.

 

Yes. That is when my spouse sought help.

 

 

I think it was this thread ( I admit, I am losing track)- I posted a link from Frank Pittman that explains that many "romantic" affairs especially occur when the cheater has an underlying issue that needs addressing ( and it's not the marriage) and the high of the affair acts as a temporary balm. Until everything worsens.

 

That was certainly true of my spouse.

[Stephanie]

Lets keep the posts on topic please.

 

Thanks

[KathyM]

I think people too easily assign a psychological label to a cheater, when in fact it is a character issue that causes the person to cheat or engage in an affair. There's no such diagnosis as "split self". A person could feasibly have a Dissociative Disorder (formerly known as a split personality disorder or multiple personality disorder) which causes him to cheat, but that would be a rare diagnosis to be made. A person may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder which causes him to cheat, or Bipolar Disorder which causes loss of control over one's impulses resulting in irresponsible sexual behavior, but for the most part, cheaters cheat because of a character flaw, not a psychological disorder.

[frozensprouts]

It seems to me that it is indeed the BSs who are more interested in blaming someone for the EMR, rather than looking at the underlying issues behind it. As I said before, there is a clear similarity to the ignorance once applied to alcoholism where character flaws were blamed. One day in the future hopefully there will be enlightenment regarding the issue of infidelity as well.

 

Kathy, we are not talking about psychological disorders here. We are talking about dysfunctional behavioral patterns.

 

 

perhaps if someone was a serial cheater, this may make sense, but it's pretty hard to establish a "pattern" based on one affair...a pattern would be exhibited over a long period of time in different situations...one affair doesn't make someone a "split self personality"...that's just trying to explain away poor behavior and absolving responsibility for one's actions by sticking a label on the behavior

 

 

if this "split self" theory is valid, then if i were an other man/woman, then this "split self" type person would be someone I would really want to avoid if I was looking for any type of permanent long term one on one relationship, as this dysfunctional behavior patten may be so ingrained that it could be almost impossible to break without huge amounts of therapy...one can't simply wish away an ingrained behavior pattern, as if something worked in the past, it's human nature to want to do it again...if something works, why chnage it?

 

it's also folly for the betrayed spouse to think that it's the other man/woman causing the wayward spouse to act like this...if it weren't that particular affair partner, it would be someone else...remove that particular affair partner, and the wayward spouse would likely simply replace them with another, as their "split self" personality would likely allow them to cheat again the next time someone else caught their eye or they felt some "need" was being met...