It's Complicated

[br148210]

Hey people I want some honest opinions on my current situation.

 

I'm in my mid 30's and was dating a woman 10 years older who is divorced with two children. She had been single out of choice to raise her children for an extended length of time until she felt they were old enough where she could focus some attention on a romantic relationship. She made it very clear what order I was in, kids, her family and me. I was a little taken aback by that but I was ok with it, as being blunt is not a problem for her. Our relationship lasted close to 4 years. My family had initial reservations about the age difference. Things went smoothly for awhile and certain financial matters and things were said that caused my family to see her in a very negative way. Some of those things said fell on me to as far as blame goes.

 

During this time frame part of our financial situation involved her taking a loan out, with me agreeing to pay for the portion I borrowed and help her pay back the other amount till it was done. This was a verbal agreement and promise made by me as I am not named as a co-signer on anything. Proof of payment is verifiable via my works direct deposit into a specific account.

Keeping the above in mind.........She compromised in the fact that she would not have an extended family on my end and gave me an ultimatum. She needed to be number one in my life and I would have to choose her as number one and be there for her. I stalled and stalled not wanting to make that decision in the light of circumstances because it meant that for example all family functions etc I would have to be at her side and schedule my families time at other times. I expressed that I wanted a relationship where my signifigant other could be a part of my family to, and was hoping things would work out eventually.

 

As time went on, we were both unhappy where we were at in our relationship. Two weeks prior to me breaking off the relationship she asked if I would be ok with her going out to see a movie with this guy friend of hers. I said I wasn't comfortable with it because of their past history and I didn't have any idea of what his motivations were and I had never met him. But I also said she is a grown woman and can do what she wants. She got a little bit defensive, and I said I trusted her but had no reason to trust him (especially with everything that was going on ) so a week goes by and want to go out with her and she says she already made other plans for that night. Come to find out she did go out with him and also went out another time to a movie with him.

 

They actually had been friends since before the beginning of our relationship. According to her there was an initial romantic connection between the two however he had unresolved feelings for his ex and she did not want to "play second fiddle" to another woman. They decided to be friends that mostly just talked on the phone or texted late at night about whatever mundane things they communicated about. From what I have heard their is not much real chemistry between the two, however he does have cash and is a work junkie.

 

Right before June of this year made the decision that we couldn't do "this" anymore. I broke off the relationship. I didn't think the situation with my parents could ever be resolved.

 

Initially during the breakup talk, she put it out there that maybe down the road in the future we could get back together, but asked as a friend if I could still help pay on the loan. ( At this time I still owed up to October ) The only reason I agreed to help pay is that I still do love her and hoped we would get back together someday. So some time goes by and we were still hanging out and decided we could be friends with benefits and she had no problems with me going to her place or her kids still knowing I was around and going to other social gatherings she attended with her friends.

 

I texted one night to come over to hangout and she said I could but it could only be for a little bit as she had plans and granted I did suspect she was going out on a date.

 

 

About a week later I asked her if she had gone out on a date and she did say yes. I asked her if it was that "friend" she had gone out to the movie with and again got defensive saying it doesn't matter who I go out with and I said it did because if it was him that means he had alterior motives on the friendly movie rendevous. She said he had nothing to do with it and leave him out of it. I also told her I was upset at the fact she was so quick to move on and that I never really thought it was over, OVER and I wanted to get back together and wanted her to at least think about it and pointed out the fact that she said maybe in the future. This was a month after the break up. During the conversation she admitted she was going to break up with me before I had and was thinking of a way to do it nicely "not be the bad guy" but I beat her to the punch so to speak and it was a relief. She still wanted to be friends though and said I will always have love in my heart for you, and out of anger I said I didn't want to hear that, that I can't be friends with someone I once loved and I couldn't have love for her anymore and it would be easier if she just plain hated me. She said "she could never hate me" and I said "oh really, I can make you hate me". This conversation definitely got heated. I said " well good luck on the loan" and she almost whimpered saying " I knew you would't keep your promise." and I said "why should I". I said if I saw her anywhere I would avoid her and go the other way, also change my phone number and e-mail since there was no reason to contact each other and I didn't want anything to do with her. I also told her that she shouldn't say things out of being nice or saying things people want to hear if they aren't true ( as in getting back together) she said in response to that is that she doesn't know what will happen in the future and anything is possible. We sat there in silence for quite a long time.

 

After all that drama, I couldn't keep up the anger because I do love her and would give my life for her. I told her that I couldn't ever hate her, but I wanted that chance that she said for a second time and that I would keep my promise on continuing to pay on the loan.

 

I asked her if she thought I would want to get back together and she honestly said no. She had always asked why I had wanted to be with her, like she didn't think she offered anything a guy could want. Age, kids, etc.

 

So here I am coming up on month 7. We are still friends with benefits. I asked her to clarify what we are and she said dating but not exclusive, heck I even went to her families function for the holiday. My portion of what I actually owe for the loan was done in Oct and I' still paying like I said.

 

We went out one night recently and her mom came along for what we were doing and she was texting the "other guy" while in the car. I asked after the fact if what she was doing "damage control" and belittled the guy a little bit. She got ticked. Said she could do whatever she wants with whomever she wants. I said " Well before you do whatever with whomever tell me before hand because I don't know what they've got or who they have been with before. She got a little sad and said I was the only one she has been with right now, as we agreed to cutting off sexual activity if one of us had or was about to be with someone intimately or pursue another relationship in an exclusive manner.

 

I felt disrespected because who goes out with someone and then texts messages the other person their dating and in the same vicinity. I told her that I have never texted another woman in a situation when out on a date. She said any female, I said my sister and a friend who is married. But she was like uhuh doesn't matter if she's married. Then she wanted me to listen to some songs she downloaded all these different love lost etc songs one that was about not her being owned.

 

So she is telling me not to be possesive by doing that. I feel disrespected from the texting in front of me with this other guy because I wouldn't do that to anyone I'm out with. I need some clarification if I need to say a date. She has said she still loves me. She say's I should see whats out there. On the flip side since she is out of the relationship with me now she doesn't have to compromise not having an extended family, and she doesn't know if we can get back together because she wouldn't have an extended family with me and her kids wouldn't have that. She knows full well I want our relationship back and that I love her. I have hurt myself financially trying to help. Been depressed and hurt my relationship with my family. She says she wants to see me happy. We continue to be intimate and I keep paying on the loan.

 

 

So what do you guy's think?

 

Any chance at getting back together?

 

I keep hearing from her, "your to good to me".

Edited December 2, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[TaraMaiden]

In brief?

You're being a doormat to a player who won't commit to you, because you're not important enough to her. If you were really all she wanted, you'd be exclusive with nobody else hanging around on the fringes.

as things stand, you're a part-time dick to her, thanks.

She told you this right at the beginning - you were number 4 on the list, but she expected to be number one, and if that's not someone with an over-inflated ego, I don't know what is....

 

Cut your losses and leave. Go no contact - and quit paying the loan if in fact, you've paid back what you should have, and now it's her part.

She has definitely never made a commitment to you.

Looks like you should do likewise.

[ReadMyThread]

Bro! I wish I could come through this damn computer screen as smack you in the face and tell you to WAKE UP!!!!! LOL!!!!! Oh my.

 

Here goes...

 

She is playing you man! This girl DOES NOT KNOW WHAT SHE WANTS AND WON'T UNTIL SHE GROWS UP! Oh my lord. This is terrible. SHE IS USING YOU. For sex AND for that loan while she is making moves with "that other guy" she was texting RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!!! WAKE UP!!!! lol.

 

She is stringing you along in case of things dont go her way with this other guy. Hence why she said MAYBE you two will work in the future. That MAYBE = If MAYBE her and this other guy works out you understand?

 

Let me explain...

 

Okay here you are all in love with this girl so you will do anything and everything (having sex wth her still and paying that loan) to try and make this work and hoping for a second chance with her when really, ITS ALREADY OVER. Here she is still having sex with you and is loving that your paying her loan for her but she DOESN'T LOVE YOU. She moved on or maybe has SOME little feelings for you lingering on while she is moving on to this "other guy" RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE! Oh the agony. Lol. She left you for this dude. Thats EXACTLY why she got all defensive when you asked if thats who she went on the date with. It was him. And her next date will be too. Then what comes after dates? Sex. Then what comes after sex? Commitment. After commitment? Well, THEIR FUTURE! THEIR! As in THEM TWO, not YOU and HER.

 

Here what's going to happen and I will tell you what you need to do that is better for YOU. What's going to happen is your going to keep having sex with her and paying her loan because you love her. While she is going to keep you around for as long as she can, accepting the sex and the loan money WHILE talking to this other guy. If things pop off with this other guy she will just drop you completely and be with him while your left completely alone OR things will pop off with the other guy and she will lie to you about it and continue to collect that loan money and possibly the sex but I would see her using you more for the money no offense lol. The last thing that could happen is things COULDN'T work between her and the other guy and that would just bring A LOT MORE PAIN onto to you because she will just do the SAME EXACT thing to the next "other guy" that comes in while your paying her loan and giving her sex. She's eventually going to cut you out man. It's coming!!!! Lol. Better prepare yourself!

 

Heres what I PRAY you do. I'm seriously going to pray you do this before I'm going to sleep tonight. RUN!!!! Delete this girl from your life completely. Her number, her FB, her face, her memories. And NEVER look back man. Please do this lol. Don't go though with this please! I'M begging YOU to give up on this girl! Lol. You derserve better man. You derserve someone who WANTS to be with you. She does NOT want to be with you and will only want to when she has no one. She sees you as you will always be there and she can go look for better while you wait for her and if she can't find better THEN she'll be with you. Man. I know you don't see it because the love is blinding you. Your probably like, "no. Not this girl. She loves me." no bro. She LOVED you. No more lol. Delete EVERYTHING about her and put this heartless girl in the past. Then start NC and never respond to this girl when her future relationships fail. That's when we will come back because she KNOWS you'll be waiting which is why you should end this now and run. Block her number so she can NEVER try to get a hold of you. If she seriously wants to give you that second chance you want she will come to where you live. But I wouldn't want a second chance with girl man. She did it once, she'll do it again. And again. And again.

 

God I hate females. I swear I NEVER see threads about guys leaving girls for another girl. It seems it's always the girls leaving the guys for another guy. I'm sure there are some out there but it always seems its the girls doing the damage and playing games.

[movingon12]

God I hate females. I swear I NEVER see threads about guys leaving girls for another girl. It seems it's always the girls leaving the guys for another guy. I'm sure there are some out there but it always seems its the girls doing the damage and playing games.

 

You're clearly very selective about what threads you read.

[br148210]

Hey everyone. Even though it stung, I do appreciate your answers. It was hard having it summed up like that but it's not like I haven't been hearing those things along the same lines from my friends and family.

 

Even though I broke off the relationship based on my belief that my families relationship could never get better and I wanted that component, and realized I made a mistake and admitted to that mistake and telling her I want her back I keep being strung along and used at this point. To the point of being disrespected in front of my face by her communicating with this other person she is dating. This is not the person I fell in love with. The person I loved changed and she wouldn't do this to me. Due to whatever the reason, it doesn't matter.

 

So I have decided to get my heart and balls back and not be a doormat and take care of my financial business. So no contact is the best course of action. I do have a couple questions on how to do that...seems simple right? Also there are a couple of ways I can do this. One gives the possibility of a future if she really really wants it ( and also may still cause her to never want to be with me), the other slams the door in her face hard and may cause repercussions for me and will never lead to a chance down the road with her.

 

I have some unresolved things I want to say to her and make a point

(Even if she doesn't give a damn, at least it's off my chest and done with).

 

Keeping this in mind...

 

She is a manipulator ( That's why I agreed to pay that loan off past what I owed on it, in the first place. Water works and seduction on her part and my love for her.)

 

She is about her self image and people opinions of her. She wants everyone to think that all is right in her world and she is responsible and a wonderful person.

 

She is very forceful when it comes to her expectations of people. Assumes that people will naturally do what she would do. When they don't she gets upset and pushes them away.

 

( There are many great things about this person that I loved, but that person has left )

 

Will a letter do or should it be in person? I don't want to get into a big huff and then cave. I really want to return all the cards and gifts she has ever given me and leave them on her doorstep to make a point.

 

Say how much I loved her, but she has changed and not the same person I once loved and I don't know who she is any more.

 

How much I did care for her and would have moved mountains for her and how this new person is a stranger and the old person would have never treated me this way.

 

And that I deserve someone that will love me, for me..not what I can bring to the table as those are just pluses added on... not the reason to love someone and I hope that she finds what she wants.

 

Onto the loan part ( BIG ONE )

 

Give her notice in the letter the money is stopping on a certain date so she can prepare for it and the repercussions? ( A personal loan from a semi-wealthy family member, and had lied about it being paid back already to her family, whom some of which have no idea about entirely.) I know she will scramble to get that payment somehow and probably get the other guy to pay it, or it may make him stand back and say hmmmmmmm....I don't know about this.

I will apologize for not being able to help any longer but that I have financial matters that need to be resolved that the money can help with and that I wish her the best of luck in resolving that deduction of the payment since we have no foreseeable future together as a united couple working toward a common goal. Leave it clean that she owes me nothing and I expect nothing from her for what I over payed on it. ( I don't want it or any other monies given to bail her out of hot water back)

 

Also let her know how disrespected I felt when she was texting this other guy in front of my face, and that I feel emotionally cheated on by her since I feel she had been pursuing something with him on a romantic or emotional level before I broke up with her.

 

These are all things I want to say. One thing I do worry about is if I do that with the loan thing her kids and living situation could drastically change and I am more worried about her kids.

 

Option 2: Would include the above but would definitely close the door on us ever getting together again.

 

This will make me look like a bad guy in some peoples minds but she has really hurt me deep and I get some closure without her sustaining any harm probably because people in her life will just say I'm the bad guy.

 

I was contemplating printing all the text messages since our break up and mailing them to this other guy with a letter stating he may want to reconsider. It will show he was being played to, spending money on her, taking her out etc as in if he was such a great friend why would she play him like that while I was still having sex with her and giving her money, also her saying she still loves me and spending time with her family. He may not care, she may come up with something he will believe who know's but at least he does know. Also state I think he was an opportunist and was preview to our relationship issues and took advantage. As well as that he would be most likely asked to pay on the debt owed.

 

Ruining that budding relationship may cause me to have issue's however the way she has made me feel, any repercussions would seem miniscule.

 

Granted I have thought of more over the top things but these are the most tame.

 

Let me know what you think.

Edited December 1, 2012 by br148210

[CptSaveAho]

Option 3: Quit being a Wussy - She has ZERO respect for you

 

1) Stop all contact with her

2) Stop paying her damn loan

3) Burn everything she gave you

4) Dont apologize for anything

5) Grow a pair of balls and stop being a "nice" guy

6) Listen to your family/friends and if they think someone is wrong for you, end it at that point. They dont have the blinders on and see things at different angles

7) Move on, shes a loser/manipulator, do you think any future contact will change how she is. Did it while you were dating her? Nope!

8) Develop some personal boundaries (If my date is texting another guy in front of me, the date quickly ends and I either leave or kick them out of the car and go home.... guys need to learn to punish bad behavior and stop "crying" about it) Put your money where your mouth is

Edited December 1, 2012 by CptSaveAho

[MAD]

Hello dude stop with the you need to get things off your chest.you our making exsuses fot further contact .But your life so this time its been wrote out you can see it the lady is playing you like a chump MAN UP she might be hot do tricks in bed but there's more ponys in the show .She has found other ponys to ride .no pun intended. Ahh ya got a cell jidt text her that would do fine .don't get in the hive with mrs queeny got to make her life look like a sweet jar of honey.tou of all pepole no its hull of BS.

[br148210]

Well I do think she needs a wake up call a little more then just stopping the money. I would rather not burn the stuff she gave me just throw it back in her face. I don't want it. I won't apologize for anything. I'll just throw it in there that wouldn't it be unfortunate if he recieved a message with everything she has sent me text wise. Just to make her worry. When the money stops then all contact will stop..I don't need to worry about her contacting me at that point.

[CptSaveAho]

She's not going to worry. She doesn't care. Throw the stuff away, stop paying and move on. Its really this simple. Why do people try to make these elaborate plans?

[Viper1]

Things have certainly changed since the last time I cracked open a dictionary--like the words "friend" and "promise".

 

Take the word "friend" for instance: "A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts."

 

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think you particularly "like" this girl or trust her. The reason for my suspician that you don't really like her is your willingness to confront her and blind side her with accusations that she is "manipulative", self-absorbed, irresponsible, and only interracts with people for the needs they can satisfy and then kicks them to the curb when they no longer can satisfy her needs.

 

As an aside, I found it telling that you placed your "love" for her last in the reasons you promised to help her pay for a loan she needed. Your first two reasons she was crying at some point and she "seduced" you.

 

She seduced you? How exactly did that happen? Did she say, "If you help me with this loan, we'll continue sleeping together even if we break up."?

 

What was the enticement? One could make the case that you seduced her by riding in like the Lone Ranger promising to help her pay off her loan.

 

Then there's what appears to be your belief that promises are conditional. A promise is a vow that gives the assurance to someone that you will either do something for them or not do something for them. They are considered so sacred, so indespensable to the "glue" that holds society together that society can step in if there is breach of promise. As to the answer "Why should you keep your promise?" the answer is simple: because you made it.

 

You've gone to great length to portray yourself as a victim and a selfless guy and yet on one occassion you used the fact that you could stop helping her with her loan like a whip that you held over her head.

 

She may be a horrible person and you may be a saint. But what I don't see are two people who are friends given the presence of such animosity--and despite what you said--I don't think you trust her at all. If you did believe in her loyalty and devotion to you, what difference would another guy's motivations make.

 

To answer your initial question you could get back together but why a woman would want to commit herself to a man who believes she has so many vices. (You conceded the girl you loved is no more. I'm guessing she'd suggest the same thing about the man she first met.)

 

At the same time, why would a man want to committ to a woman who he claims disrespects him, emotionally cheated on him, and cannot see "a foreseeable future with… ."

 

I initially thought I was giving to harsh an opinion until I read this (about the other man she is involved with):

 

I was contemplating printing all the text messages since our break up and mailing them to this other guy with a letter stating he may want to reconsider. It will show he was being played to, spending money on her, taking her out etc as in if he was such a great friend why would she play him like that while I was still having sex with her

 

That makes my short list for one of the most vindictive, vengeful, and contemptuous attempts to take a rival out of the picture that I have ever read--and you admit this is one of your more benign attempts to express such white-hot anger and outrage?

 

In light of the schemes you have considered to work this thing out I would suggest that you could possibly get back together again with her but, frankly, you're not ready for a relationship--with her or anyone--until you can come to terms with your anger.

 

You know nothing about this guy other than he has been out with your ex on a few occassions and yet you have contemplated making him an innocent victim of the collateral damage of the hostility you feel for this woman.

 

No matter how you try to justify that, it's abhorrent.

 

Just one more opinion: I'd think long and hard before I took advice about women from anyone who says they hate women.

[br148210]

Viper1,

 

I appreciate your view of things but would like to clarify a few things.

 

The thoughts and feelings I've expressed hear are just that,thoughts and feelings and me asking for people's opinion.

 

I never did claim I was a saint, and my relationship ending officially was because I did it, not her. Part of the blame for us splitting up falls on me and I accept that. I feel I made the mistake by breaking up with her, and want her back and she absolutely knows this without question and I have laid it out for her.

 

What I have issue with is how I feel I've been treated since the break up and taking into account everything that happened shortly before and the intervening time up until now.

 

Me using the loan as a whip hanging over her is a good analogy but I want to clarify that the loan is a whip in and of itself because if and when I do go no contact and if I decide to stop paying my agreed to portion of the loan it will cause severe hardship for her,her family relationship with her parental family, her living situation, and her children. I don't want to do that, and I haven't considered doing anything about it until recent events.

 

I don't want to feel used either and unfortunatley that is how I feel.

 

Do you think I should keep the promise I made in light of this?

 

Everyone on this page has expressed what they think and from their perspective that is what it looks like.

 

Did I agree to help her out as friend without conditions? Yes and No.

 

I helped her out as a friend because I do still love her and did not want to see her struggle. I expected no payment in return. Was I still hoping she would someday want to rekindle our relationship or be exclusive? Yes I did.

 

Trust: Did I trust her? Yes I did. Do I trust her now? I question motives now. In light of the past seven months, what she has said and her actions of course I would question things.

 

I really would like to believe she is confused and doesn't know what she wants, still loves me but just can't make a commitment right now and this other person is just a distraction and entertainment for her other then the same old 4 year thing. It's new and exciting or whatever.

 

But the fact that this other guy and her had a previous romantic connection, were friends and then went out on an official date 1 month after the breakup indicates otherwise. I really should have turned around and returned her home after she was texting him in my car as CptSaveAho posted. At least this would have shown that inconsiderate behavior I won't put up with if were out somewhere together. I asked her to clarify what we are now and she put it as "you could call it dating but were not exclusive".

 

The matter of me posting I might print and mail all the text messages she ever sent me since we broke up to the other guy was me just blowing off some steam. If I really wanted to mess things up for her it would have been done already I wouldn't even be posting on here.