Three and a half year update.

[health]

We can only base our perception of ourselves on how people treat us and how they react to us. That's all we have.

 

That's your belief, so don't assume everyone operates from the same one.

 

There is no anchorage of self in there. If you're self image is based on other people your life would be like a roller coaster. There is no control in that.

 

If people treat you bad you feel bad?

 

Eff that! I know for myself, I choose how to feel. Crap happens, but I choose how to act ultimately.

 

It is what it is, I would say you need to do even more healing.

[trippi1432]

Healing takes as long as it takes for the specific individual, finding internal happiness takes just as long. I understand where Logik is coming from and it's not just relationships that can take you there, it's in the way people are in general, not a specific gender.

 

It's more a loss of faith and the need of something more spiritual. No, not church or any of that as this is not a religious post. It really comes down to an awareness that everyone is not like you. Each has their own values and belief system and even if it is not your own, it's not one that has to affect you when you are being true to yourself.

[Logik]

I've seen people say that they've learned so much about themselves since they got divorced. What does this mean? I've known myself for 36 years and I've been the same person all along. No new discoveries. It's me, ffs. I might experience more and learn more - but this is about things other than me. There's really nothing more to learn unless I've been asleep my whole life.

 

Am I missing something? Am I the only person in the world who hasn't experienced this "learning"? Also the, "Ever since x and y happened, I've managed to find myself". Seriously? I was never lost. I just don't get it. Maybe that's my problem, my cross. I've never felt like I could really relate to how people experience these things. Do I lack some part of what makes people, people? I've felt like this for most of my life with things that people say about their lives. Am I sub-normal?

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, why don't I experience any of the so-called "healing" or "moving on" feelings that everyone else does? Or, is it all just a massive lie and nobody really actually feels it, but says it anyway, because that's what they want people to hear?

 

I suppose I'm just getting really frustrated at the fact that I'm possibly always gonna be bitter about my divorce and I'm never gonna move on from it. It's not just about the fact that I'm not married any more. It's about humanity. For example, and I'm quoting The Matrix here - cheesy, but relevant. Can one actually live life the way they're expected to after having the red pill forced down their throat? In other words, after seeing what the world actually is, how does one pretend that it's all fine and just carry on with it?

 

End rant.

[Mumbles]

Logik,

 

You say at the bottom of your post "end rant"

 

I love your post. I don't know thats its really a rant at all. I am reading frustration and _ffs!_ whats going on.

 

 

I've seen people say that they've learned so much about themselves since they got divorced. What does this mean? I've known myself for 36 years and I've been the same person all along. No new discoveries. It's me, ffs. I might experience more and learn more - but this is about things other than me. There's really nothing more to learn unless I've been asleep my whole life.

 

Everyone experiences their life differently I'm sure, but there is enough commonality of experience and feeling to know what we are talking to each other about.

 

I 'fell asleep' at the wheel during my marriage. By that I mean that I became so directed, so focussed, on 'doing well' and making a material life that I lost touch with the human pleasures and ultimately my manhood. Yes, you want to talk cheesy, I really mean that last bit.

 

My work is overridingly intellectual. To do better at what I do I have to (and did) spend increasingly large amounts of time in my head and in front of a computer. I won't go into a huge diatribe about this now, but at some point the connection to the real world was lost and my connection to people along with it. I've no doubt, looking backwards, that this had a direct impact upon my marriage. We did well, my wife was directed too - but we ended up in a bad place.

 

After divorce, going on for about 3.5 years now, and closer to 4 and a bit since separation, I fell into depression ... this wasn't part of the plan ... was _this_ the reward for working my bollocks off? Something is wrong with the world ... arrrgghh!!!

 

No. something was wrong with me. For years after I tried to keep up appearances. Worked even harder, tried not to let there be any impact on my physical life as a result of my marriage breakdown. But ultimately, I wasn't really living. I was working and existing. Eventually, health issues arise, and one is forced to have a serious look at whats going on.

 

I'm not the same person I was. I'm better. I may not come across to people as "nice" as I once was, or accommodating, but I'm better, for me. Not selfish so much, but I do things because I want to do them and I no longer try to pre-think or make decisions on other peoples behalf. This last is the biggest change. I try really hard to take people decisions and choices at face value now, no longer try to over analyse what motivates people. Its like a rebirth.

 

Am I missing something? Am I the only person in the world who hasn't experienced this "learning"? Also the, "Ever since x and y happened, I've managed to find myself". Seriously? I was never lost. I just don't get it.

 

I think finding myself is a reasonable description of my experience. I had become a machine. With no children to the marriage, house paid off, no debt, and then later no wife, I had what would appear to be no problems. However, there was no joy in life, none.

 

I read some stuff, here and elsewhere on the net, got some counselling too - something I thought was only for seriously messed up people, but it all slowly sank in. I never did anything for the joy of it. Never walked barefoot in the grass, never went to the beach and took a swim, never bought anything I didn't need and that didn't serve a financial purpose (thus, lots of suits in my wardrobe but hardly any casual gear).

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, why don't I experience any of the so-called "healing" or "moving on" feelings that everyone else does? Or, is it all just a massive lie and nobody really actually feels it, but says it anyway, because that's what they want people to hear?

 

For me, it took drastic action. I've posted elsewhere about the nature of what that was and won't cloud this discussion going over it again. I forced myself (at first) to have some experiences that I would never have dreamed of in my previous life and that reconnected me to the physical world and the pleasures that can be had in your physicality and interaction with the real world.

 

I now prioritise simple pleasures. I sleep more, and its a priority, not sleeping enough was becoming a health problem, I interact with people more, I go to the gym, I jog, I go on holidays whenever there is the slightest opportunity. I give gifts, rather than thinly veiled contracts (ie; giving with expectation attached).

 

 

I suppose I'm just getting really frustrated at the fact that I'm possibly always gonna be bitter about my divorce and I'm never gonna move on from it.

 

I met my ex-wife on the weekend for a beer and a pizza at a local restaurant. Some people can't do this, but it was great. Enough time has passed and we've both moved on with other partners. I really enjoyed her companionship for the afternoon/evening and judging by a text I received later, it was likewise for her.

 

I can now celebrate what was good about our marriage and not dwell on where we ended up.

 

 

Can one actually live life the way they're expected to after having the red pill forced down their throat? In other words, after seeing what the world actually is, how does one pretend that it's all fine and just carry on with it?

 

I chose my red pill, and it really stuck on the way down. I no longer "live life the way I'm expected to", I live life the way I want to.

 

After seeing the world the way it really is, at first denying it, then begrudging it, I am now entranced by it. I have almost no fear any more, of anything. I exist in a chaotic state surrounded by chaos. I've seen good men go down, and bad men reach the lofty heights. My hard work and moral view isn't going to save the world, no myself. So I extract from the chaos those things which please me and let chance look after the rest.

 

I'm liberated, finally, as I head towards a half century of existence.

 

I hope that once the bitterness starts to fade, and it will with your own effort, that you can see, again, just how wonderful life can be.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Mumbles

[Logik]

Mumbles. Thanks for your meticulously crafted response.

 

ultimately, I wasn't really living. I was working and existing.

 

I guess this is how I've always been.

 

I never did anything for the joy of it. Never walked barefoot in the grass, never went to the beach and took a swim, never bought anything I didn't need and that didn't serve a financial purpose

 

Yup, pretty much me. Not only now, that's how it's always been. I never found the need for these things. Explaining why I'm divorced, possibly.

 

I forced myself (at first) to have some experiences that I would never have dreamed of in my previous life and that reconnected me to the physical world

 

That is what got me to this point in the first place. I was trying to be like all the other children. Trying what I was "meant" to do.

 

I try really hard to take people decisions and choices at face value now, no longer try to over analyse what motivates people.

 

That's all I know.

 

Bottom line is that I actually feel like a blank. A blank as in, a vessel, that looks human, acts a bit like a human, but is missing some crucial element that helps us interact with people the way we're supposed to. I don't know what that element is, because if I knew, I'd get it. Like I said, sub-normal or even alt-normal - I don't know if it's beneath or maybe just alternative.

 

That was all over the place, wasn't it? Made sense when I was writing it.

[Mumbles]

I guess this is how I've always been.

 

Yes. I fully understand. Until I recovered from my divorce, my life was a continuum. I grew from a boy into a man sure, and lots of life experiences, but something was missing. I'll touch on that again in a moment.

 

Yup, pretty much me. Not only now, that's how it's always been. I never found the need for these things. Explaining why I'm divorced, possibly.

 

I think it explains my divorce entirely. Everyone is different though.

 

 

That is what got me to this point in the first place. I was trying to be like all the other children. Trying what I was "meant" to do.

 

Ahh. This totally flies up my flagpole. It describes probably the first 40 years of my life. Sure, my actions over the years were coloured by what I 'wanted' to do, or so I thought, but the foundation of it all was what I was meant to do or expected to do.

 

 

Bottom line is that I actually feel like a blank. A blank as in, a vessel, that looks human, acts a bit like a human, but is missing some crucial element that helps us interact with people the way we're supposed to. I don't know what that element is, because if I knew, I'd get it. Like I said, sub-normal or even alt-normal - I don't know if it's beneath or maybe just alternative.

 

Again, I can directly relate. It drove my ex-wife bonkers during our separation and divorce that I apparently handled it all so well. But I was numb, blank. In many ways I think I always have been this way.

 

The missing element, in my view, and if you'd allow me to be so bold, is joy. I know, don't laugh, sounds pretty cliche huh? Its not. My physical body, and emotional state can be a source of intense satisfaction and pleasure. I'm not going to sidestep the hidden question here either, yes, I'm partly talking about sex; I'd lost my ability to _really_ connect with women sexually ... I'd lost my ability to connect with the physical world at all frankly so this shouldn't have been a surprise. I could go through the motions, but I didn't _feel_ anything. But I'm not only talking about sex, not at all. The whole body is built to give you feedback. I can have a workout at the gym thats so physical, so intense, that I think I receive an endorphins hit. Seriously.

 

If I drive somewhere a bit too fast in my car, it used to be because I had to be somewhere _now_! Today, I tend not to, but if I do, I do it for the rush, for the pleasure. I'm learning to dance, its primal, it connects you with your body and the physical world.

 

Its my belief (now) that people are meant to be physical, its whats at the basis for 'feeling' anything. We should be climbing trees, swimming rivers, hunting down wildebeest, tracking down women (in the nicest possible way of course). I need to be able to appreciate music for how it moves me, emotionally, not because of its technical qualities. Find time to go to the park, and lay on the grass day dreaming.

 

This is such basic stuff that many readers will be thinking "how glib", and sure - but when you lose this basic stuff, you become an automaton.

 

One more thing. The council I took helped me to not over analyse the negative. I am by nature a pessimist, I have to actively work on seeing the positive. At first I laughed at the thought, then I thought she was joking, then, when I could see she wasn't joking I still dismissed the idea as some sort of hocus pocus hippy-free-love type philosophy ... but I can tell you now, years later, that you can change your outlook on life by changing; directing, your thoughts.

 

That was all over the place, wasn't it? Made sense when I was writing it.

 

Made sense to me.

 

As you can tell, I'm in a really good place now. Its taken years to get here and I almost gave up hope. I'm finding that being single at 45-6 is fantastic. I can't wait to spring out of bed in the morning. Whilst I still enjoy my work, and am still working at the same place I have for 11-12 years, when its time to go home, I go home, and I don't work out of hours any more. I like my job, but I could care less if it ended. Women smile at me and interact. I encounter lovers who are interesting people and I love to be around, I'm no longer spending my evenings wondering "where is this going", "where do I want this to go". I enjoy every moment I have with them with no expectation, no 'building' something for the future. Nothing is meant to last, but the here and now can bring an emotional response that will bring tears to my eyes.

 

I've spent some words on women in this post, I'm no Don Juan and am not trying to pretend to be; but once I 'woke up' I had an epiphany that perhaps only applies to me, but maybe not. I think women can change a mans outlook on life, I don't think we're (men) are meant to live our lives without them as a big part of it. I'll leave that out there, but have a lot to say on it if you want to pursue it.

[Techie Artist]

Fixed a lot of things, feel really strong, and I vibe that.

 

If you do the same, you will be surprised at how women respond to you.

 

There are a lot of people who find themselves, love, and purpose after marriage is ended. Sometimes we're not fully matured when we enter into marriage. The growth you have made may be part of what you needed to experience to grow. BB is right. He learned and he "vibes" it, and others will pick up on that as something interesting and maybe even beautiful.

 

We all face adversity and take our kicks. It's how we recover that makes us better. Be sure you learn. I don't know your level of faith, but I constantly ask God to fill my emptiness and to mold me into what I was purposed to become. Imagine yourself as clay in God's hand being made into a new vessel. Then ask that divine power to fill you completely so you understand how to love yourself. Others will notice.

[aMguilts]

There are a lot of people who find themselves, love, and purpose after marriage is ended. Sometimes we're not fully matured when we enter into marriage. The growth you have made may be part of what you needed to experience to grow. BB is right. He learned and he "vibes" it, and others will pick up on that as something interesting and maybe even beautiful.

 

We all face adversity and take our kicks. It's how we recover that makes us better. Be sure you learn. I don't know your level of faith, but I constantly ask God to fill my emptiness and to mold me into what I was purposed to become. Imagine yourself as clay in God's hand being made into a new vessel. Then ask that divine power to fill you completely so you understand how to love yourself. Others will notice.

 

doesn`t HE help those that help themselves 1st?

from what i remember from my CoE school?

 

i constantly ask god to let me win the lottery, he aint listening to me on that either.

sorry for the threadjack OP but Techie Artist, what are you `purposed to become` ??

 

i`m intrigued

 

aM

[aMguilts]

I suppose I'm just getting really frustrated at the fact that I'm possibly always gonna be bitter about my divorce and I'm never gonna move on from it. It's not just about the fact that I'm not married any more. It's about humanity. For example, and I'm quoting The Matrix here - cheesy, but relevant. Can one actually live life the way they're expected to after having the red pill forced down their throat? In other words, after seeing what the world actually is, how does one pretend that it's all fine and just carry on with it?

 

End rant.

 

Logik (in bold i`ll answer last)

 

i agree with you

well from my perspective anyway. but then again who am i?

i`m just a nobody.

i`m 1 of the ones that took NEITHER the red or blue

 

I`ll make my own way in life, and even thou i`m in a whole world of pain right now, i don`t hate anyone.

More to the point being i don`t blame anyone for whats going on in my life.

if anything i`d rather make someone smile than hit them

understand?

collectively?? yeah it is a SH IT world we live in

 

I`m hoping i at least make it better for my actions and the way i interact in it than worse

 

in bold

possibly?

so you DO have hope for a better future!

 

life is tough

living life is tough

really tough

its not impossible thou

you have a good heart logik

and a good mind

and you have made me smile

 

 

aM

[2sunny]

Instead of looking for someone to love - why not just date for the fun of doing something(s) with someone and having little to no expectations?

[Mumbles]

Instead of looking for someone to love - why not just date for the fun of doing something(s) with someone and having little to no expectations?

 

There is a lot to be said for this I think. I meet and socialise with women because I love to be around them - its something I had to learn to do. Previously I'd always be on a mission, sex, a girlfriend, a LTR - whatever. Life is so much more fun just to interact with the girls and enjoy the interaction.

 

Things with some of them will progress naturally ... or not .. but either way, don't hide yourself behind a wall of over complication and needing to "go somewhere" with every woman you meet.

[Techie Artist]

doesn`t HE help those that help themselves 1st?

from what i remember from my CoE school?

 

i constantly ask god to let me win the lottery, he aint listening to me on that either.

sorry for the threadjack OP but Techie Artist, what are you `purposed to become` ??

 

i`m intrigued

 

aM

 

Yeah, God is giving me a "no" on the lottery, too, aM! I don't know what God ultimately wants me to become, but I have evidence through talents and insights by personal mediation that help me to have some clue. Allow the vessel metaphor. A sugar bowl is used as a sugar bowl. A creamer is for cream, but could be used for gravy if the gravy boat is busted. The vessels have a purpose by virtue of how they're shaped. A pot with a hole in the bottom would not be an effective pot. However, if you recognize the hole as a problem to being used as a pot, you should either seek to plug the hole or accept that you need an overspill tray and be used as a planter.

 

So, I am a woman, of color, intelligent, talented, a wife, a mother...I believe that I was meant to exist at this time in history with these characteristics for a reason. I already know that when I teach about science that I fulfill a purpose. I've gotten feedback about how I've changed lives. Same is true as a woman, as a black person, as an artist, as a wife, and as a mother. So I know that I have a future role to shape my children. That's part of my purpose that God is allowing me to fill. Look at all you are and are good at. Assess the role you play in life...or could play...and determine what you should do with the time God gave you on Earth.

[Logik]

I guess what I'm trying to say is, why don't I experience any of the so-called "healing" or "moving on" feelings that everyone else does? Or, is it all just a massive lie and nobody really actually feels it, but says it anyway, because that's what they want people to hear?

 

I just felt the need to reiterate on something I said before. I don't buy the fact that people can fully move on from this. It's either buried deep down or just ignored while they smile and wave.

[Mumbles]

I just felt the need to reiterate on something I said before. I don't buy the fact that people can fully move on from this. It's either buried deep down or just ignored while they smile and wave.

 

You don't ever 100% move on. There will be a scar, and scars are always there. But that doesn't mean that we're faking a smile once 'recovery' is essentially complete.

[Mint Sauce]

I just felt the need to reiterate on something I said before. I don't buy the fact that people can fully move on from this. It's either buried deep down or just ignored while they smile and wave.

 

Of course it is buried. Why do people cry at funerals of people they hardly know? Because it brings back what/who they buried. But that is not necessarily wrong. The fact that you can visit the cemetery from time to time allows you to live life in between those visits. The loss and damage will always be there, but contained within the grave.

 

In that way, the smile and wave is not necessarily fake.

 

PS: apologies for the rather dark metaphor.

[Mint Sauce]

Logik, I think you'd benefit from spending more time with the elderly people in your family. Are your parents still alive?

 

Have you not seen the sadness in their eyes when they remember their parents? The loss is still there, but that doesn't take away their joy when a e.g. a grand child is expected.

[Logik]

4 years, people. 4 years and I still hate everything. Still would never trust anyone. Still angry with the world. Actually, I've become even harder than I ever was. The only thing I've learnt is, you only have you. Everyone else can pretty much take a hike. It doesn't get better. It gets worse. The rest of my life is me, just waiting to die.

[hayewils]

Logik,

I do know your pain and frustration. This is not my first rodeo.

The first time i went through this it involved children. It was hard, the ex and her boyfriend wanted to fight all the time. It took me a long time to get passed that. I also thought that was it for me and everyone else could get the hell away from me. I was 32 at that time. Now ofcourse, here i am again. This time painful in a different way. The first marriage was because my family was being torn apart but i eventually understood that i wasnt in love with my childrens mother. This time, no children and i was, still am, deeply in love with a woman who wasnt in love with me. Ive taken it pretty hard.

Went through all that what am i going to do? Where do i go from here?

My life is over... NO! Its not over.

I had to stop and realize that even though this is where i am, my life is not over.

I had a wonderful time with my wife, wonderful memories but i have come to the point that i am not gonna sit here and hold a life of anger and resentment. Its all up to me now, where i go, what i do. I also put my faith and trust in God.

I have also realized that that i dont care if or when i meet someone new.

I am going to take charge of my life and do all i can to enjoy what i have left of it. If i die tomorrow, so be it. I know i had a hell of a ride while i was here.

In time, things will be fine. I am in no rush. 5 years, 15 years..

So what!

We all need to make what we can out of life. Holding anger and resentment will get you no where. Have to let it go man, youve got to let it go.

Think about it, been 4 years. Its not the end of the world.

Think of your future, your childrens future. One day, maybe tomorrow, happiness is going to show up. When it does for me, im gonna embrace it.

If it doesnt, ok.

I also believe that if my wife doesnt want me then fine, go on, take your inability to love and your controlling ways with you. Im starting to learn that she did me a favor. Im gonna take control of me and where im going.

Take control of yours.

You know i did a lot of going out by myself years ago. Kinda boring but it put me around people. Seen a lot of men get slapped. What that really helped me with was getting back in touch with myself and my trust issues. Im so past trust issues today. If someone wants to be with me, great! If they dont, ok.

They can take a hike..

[aMguilts]

4 years, people. 4 years and I still hate everything. Still would never trust anyone. Still angry with the world. Actually, I've become even harder than I ever was. The only thing I've learnt is, you only have you. Everyone else can pretty much take a hike. It doesn't get better. It gets worse. The rest of my life is me, just waiting to die.

Logik,

do you really think that?

 

i`ve got to be careful with what I put in replying to you.

Part of me wants to give you a`tough love` reply but i know it wont help you.

Or maybe it will/ would of.

so i`ll just ask you 1 question instead. ok? (no, thats not the question)

 

why all the negativity?

 

and btw your are wrong. the rest of your life is not just you, me and everyone else on here, will be with you.

Get out of the rut you are in now.

It does get better if you find help for yourself or at least open up to let others help you.

Sitting there feeling sorry for yourself won`t.

 

Hold your head high

big hug

aM

Edited July 17, 2013 by aMguilts