Assessment on How I'm Doing

[JimmyB26]

So, she and I tried to get together for coffee for an hour a couple of weeks back down at my law school. It was her idea after I’d been in No Contact for a little while just trying to clear my head from earlier involvement with the same girl, thinking it wasn't going to work. She called and cited stomach issues, couldn’t make it, whatever, but suggested a couple of days later. I called back when I got this voicemail and said not to worry about it, to feel better, but I couldn’t do the day she suggested and that we should just try the following week.

 

The next week she tried again with the text telling me how much she’d love to get coffee, and I again invited her down to the law school for an hour at a nearby Starbucks. This time, she was a no call and no show. I thought that was the end. I went into deep no contact. I did not respond to the flake AT ALL. I said nothing and did nothing, no reaction whatsoever.

 

8 days later, on Thanksgiving, after a lot of debate and considering whether I should give a crap and whether she deserved hearing from me, and considering it was afternoon and I hadn’t gotten one from her, I sent her this:

 

Me: “Happy thanksgiving”

 

Her (3 hours later): “Happy Thanksgiving to you as well! Hope it’s filled with good company and amazing food.”

 

Then, totally out of the blue, at 11:30 that night:

Her: "I was going to send you some email or something but decided against it. Then you texted me today somewhat out of the blue and I feel the need to tell you this: I am so thankful you came into my life. I know we barely know each other but I have learned so many things from you and can’t thank you enough for your kindness and patience. I am in such a better place and a new person now and you were absolutely a part of me getting here. I hate that I met you at such a turning point in my life because frankly I don’t know how to treat you or act with you now. I’m not sure if that makes sense but I have moved on from my “dark period” and that’s unfortunately when I met you. I guess I’m saying that of course I care about you and just wish our timing was different."

 

I couldn’t tell if she wanted to be platonic now or not, it seemed like she wanted to put herself out there but keep it open-ended in case there was a possibility that I’d moved on and might reject her and might not. I thanked her for putting it out there and offered her a clean slate to build on, and she said:

 

Her: “I would love more than anything a clean slate with you. Just didn’t think it was fair to ask.”

 

I told her that we all go through things, not to worry about it. We can clean slate the bad stuff and carve out the good stuff and build on it.

 

Her: “I couldn’t be happier to hear that.”

 

I told her that there’s a lot more to say, but we should save it for the phone and a first date.

 

Her: “Agreed. Talk to you tomorrow.” She promised to call me.

 

I was giving her 50:50 odds of actually calling. But she did. We made plans for this Wednesday, two days from now. I told her that just as someone communicates that he cares to her by showing patience and understanding, someone shows that she cares about me by showing that she respects my time and doesn’t waste it.

 

Since the phone call, we’ve been texting pretty steady. She’s asked questions to see if I like things that she likes, to “get all the deal breakers out there since now we’re giving this a real shot.”

 

What do you guys think of the last exchange last night though?

 

Me: “I wonder what gave it away… Feel free to inquire about any other potential deal-breakers.”

Her: “I have many. Don’t want to ambush you all at once.”

Me: “I’m not worried.”

Her: “Confident.”

Me: “Absolutely. And so glad to see confidence from you.”

 

Did I screw that up? Because I didn’t hear anything back from that last one for the last day. She does know that I'm coming up on finals and I've stressed the need for her to respect my time.

 

I'm trying to figure out whether this time is going to be any different and we're going to go through with the date or it's going to be another flake. Keep in mind that she's moved since I last was over at her place and I have no way of knowing if the address she gave me to pick her up at is legit.

 

What do you think?

[Cutiepie1976]

Ending a relationship is tough and downright painful. There's nothing wrong with the text exchange per se. But overall, her actions suggest that she's pretty ambivalent about getting back together.

 

Since it's already set up, go ahead and meet her. I think after that though, you should stop all contact with her, and take a break to clear your head. From what you've written it seems you're inadvertently being strung along as she works through the ending of things for herself. Both dumpers and dumpees struggle when a long-term relationship ends, but for different reasons, and it's painful for the dumpee.

 

You'll heal and be able to move forward faster if you stop the cycle of hope alternating with crushed feelings and dashed hope, when she doesn't follow through. That's really not helping you. As hard as it is, don't reach out to her and don't respond when she does.

 

Best of luck!

[JimmyB26]

That's your assessment after reading that?

 

I guess that long text she sent me on Thanksgiving could be a "Dear John" text, but the references to "now that we're giving it a real shot" and "don't want to ambush you all at once" seem to indicate that she sees longevity.

 

I tested her about whether she was turning over a leaf and leaving me behind. I even through a reference in there to a second first date and she called me the next day when she said she would to set it up, promising me that things were different now. Then texted me the next day. Then we texted back and forth on Sunday.

 

I can't see how that really translates to being over.

[JimmyB26]

It literally was one of those bad timing things. We met in the summer from online, had a steamy attraction for a month or month and a half, and have been talking on and off ever since. I also saw her again at the end of the September just on one night and nothing had really changed between us. Obviously I've been ready and willing to do my part for a healthy relationship with her, and it's always been her who for one reason or another has been skittish.

 

But it's all taken care of. I texted her today to confirm the address because I may have misheard her on the phone as we were having reception issues that night. I added an invitation to address any lingering hesitations, nerves, or concerns with me and that it would be ok as long as we communicated. She responded with "Haha relax." And then she hit me with her correct address number.

 

I gave her every opportunity to throw in the towel with me or tell me if she wasn't going to follow through or express any freaking out - of course I know that this still gives her ample opportunity to do so over the next 24 hours - and she didn't cancel or express any hesitation. We'll see what happens.

[Cutiepie1976]

That's your assessment after reading that?

 

I guess that long text she sent me on Thanksgiving could be a "Dear John" text, but the references to "now that we're giving it a real shot" and "don't want to ambush you all at once" seem to indicate that she sees longevity.

 

I tested her about whether she was turning over a leaf and leaving me behind. I even through a reference in there to a second first date and she called me the next day when she said she would to set it up, promising me that things were different now. Then texted me the next day. Then we texted back and forth on Sunday.

 

I can't see how that really translates to being over.

 

Oh, there was no break-up?!? Then you posted in the wrong section. This is the breakup section of the forum and second chances after the ending of a relationship. How many dates have you had with her? When did you first try to ask her out?

 

I still stand by my assessment. She's ambivalent. The enthusiasm of her words is at odds with the consistent flakiness of he behavior to date--cancellations, no-shows, lack of reliability. Generally, you don't have to lecture dates about respecting your time because they've made a habit of cancelling at the last minute or not showing up. Just not the most convincing display of enthusiasm in my book. That you thought she might have given you the wrong address to meet her was also telling. Anyway, probably just me! She was either incredibly busy, and got some down time during the Thanksgiving holiday or she's not that interested. You'll have to figure it out.

 

Good luck on your date! Hopefully these are all just unusual blips and things work out.

[Million.to.1]

I think her flakiness in the past was because there may have been another guy on the scene somewhat... who is now not.

 

that's my assessment.

 

if the slate, as you state, has been wiped clean, then release this paranoia about her standing you up and just enjoy the anticipation of really getting to know her.

[Cutiepie1976]

I think her flakiness in the past was because there may have been another guy on the scene somewhat... who is now not...

 

Yup! That was my very first thought. Someone came on the scene in September and her priorities shifted. Didn't want to state that explicitly and risk hurting the OP's feelings since they met during the summer...so busy. Busy with another guy and it didn't work or isn't working, busy with school, a job, whatever. For reasons that only she knows, she refocused her attention recently and became more responsive.

 

Just move forward, plan a great date, and see what comes of it.

 

Good luck!

Edited November 28, 2012 by Cutiepie1976

[simonsez]

You are failing and more than likely will continue to fail.

You have the "nice guy" syndrome.

 

It was her idea after I’d been in No Contact for a little while just trying to clear my head from earlier involvement with the same girl, thinking it wasn't going to work.

 

You were correct at that time. It wasn't and isn't going to work. She doesn't respect you.

 

 

She called and cited stomach issues, couldn’t make it, whatever, but suggested a couple of days later. I called back when I got this voicemail and said not to worry about it, to feel better, but I couldn’t do the day she suggested and that we should just try the following week.

 

Another "nice guy" response. She broke a date. End of story. Women don't do these things when they like a guy in the right way. You then tell her not to worry about it and to feel better. Typical nice guy response. Guys who are successful with women don't put up with that. You are failing her tests

and are even helping her not respect you. You should have thrown her number in the toilet.

 

But you still go back for more abuse. (again typical of a "nice guy")

 

 

The next week she tried again with the text telling me how much she’d love to get coffee, and I again invited her down to the law school for an hour at a nearby Starbucks. This time, she was a no call and no show.

 

How is that for respecting you? Doesn't call and doesn't show? That is RUDE. Proves once again her level of respect for you and what she really really thinks of you. She is going to use you when she is in limbo from another relationship. if I have seen this once, I have seen it a thousand times.......

 

Yet you STILL go back for more abuse... YOU contact her after she breaks one date, no shows on the next and had you trying to "clear your head" from the earlier break off...

 

8 days later, on Thanksgiving, after a lot of debate and considering whether I should give a crap and whether she deserved hearing from me, and considering it was afternoon and I hadn’t gotten one from her, I sent her this:

 

Me: “Happy thanksgiving

 

Another "nice guy" reaction. She no shows and no calls you and YOU contact her????

 

Her: “I would love more than anything a clean slate with you. Just didn’t think it was fair to ask.”

 

I told her that we all go through things, not to worry about it. We can clean slate the bad stuff and carve out the good stuff and build on it.

 

You don't seem to think much of yourself if you allow a woman to treat you this way without having the backbone to let her get the message that you will NOT TOLERATE a woman who acts this way.

 

There is more that I see...

 

 

Her: “Agreed. Talk to you tomorrow.” She promised to call me.

 

This seems backward. YOU should be taking the aggressive lead with women. Here you are letting her lead you by her promising to call you. Dude, successful men are the ones who promise to call the woman. Not the other way around. Nice guys let the woman promise to call them. This isn't good for you I must tell you.

 

Another example...

Since the phone call, we’ve been texting pretty steady. She’s asked questions to see if I like things that she likes, to “get all the deal breakers out there since now we’re giving this a real shot.”

 

YOU should be the one asking HER questions to see if SHE likes the things YOU like. Such as.. "Do you flake out and break dates with guys?" YOU should be finding out about deal breakers. The sad fact is it seems that you really have no deal breakers. No wonder she doesn't respect you. You are getting used and can't even see it.

 

Me: “I wonder what gave it away… Feel free to inquire about any other potential deal-breakers.”

 

Nice guy again.. "Feel free to inquire about and other potential deal-breakers?"

 

I realize YOU think that was confident. You are sadly mistaken.

She has already given you at least 3 DEAL BREAKERS that men who have success with women would have shown her the exit door and slammed it shut. However, typical of a nice guy you ask HER to inquire to you... You are a glutton for punishment. YOU should be looking for the deal breakers. You already allowed her to give you 3 deal breakers and you failed to stand strong. She does not respect you. Women who respect you don't do these things, and if they do, the man acts accordingly. You aren't going to earn her respect by allowing her to do these types of things without showing her you not only can do better, but WILL do better.

 

My take is that she is between relationships and you will be her "TEMP"(the nice guy who bends over backwards as she heals) until she finds a guy that she respects. Trust me, she won't do these things to a man she really likes and respects. She will then dump you slowly by again not showing up, not calling, giving you excuses for her not calling, etc. etc. This is in hope that you get the hint.

 

My experience in helping nice guys is that they usually have to learn the hard way and that they find excuses to believe that there really is a chance with a woman like the one you are dealing with.

 

My advice is to dump her and move on to someone else. She has already shown you that she is a flake. Once a flake, always a flake...

[Cutiepie1976]

GOOD GAWD, what drivel!:rolleyes:

 

I only date nice guys who are authentically themselves. Emotionally healthy women will pick a nice guy any day over some loser, low self esteem wanna-be pick-up artist jerk!

 

Whether she is interested or not will have nothing to do with this nonsense.

[simonsez]

Emotionally healthy women will pick a nice guy any day over some loser, low self esteem wanna-be pick-up artist jerk!

 

Who said anything about a loser, low self esteem wanna-be pick-up artist?

 

You seem to also be assuming the woman "picks"

 

That is his problem. Emotionally healthy men SHOULD pick a woman that has enough integrity to show up on a date or at the very least call. Emotionally healthy men don't keep trying to win a woman that treats them this way.

 

Shame on you for even trying to encourage him to keep trying with this woman who can't be honest and is giving him the run around.

 

This isn't about him being a jerk or a pick up artist. It is about him thinking that this nice patient guy routine will work to win her. It won't. He can most certainly be nice and show some backbone.

 

Do YOU still see a guy who doesn't show up or call when you have arranged a date? All of the emotionally healthy women I know would never put up with that.

[Cutiepie1976]

Encourage??? Are you kidding me? I provided the same assessment over multiple posts despite the OP's disbelief:

 

...overall, her actions suggest that she's pretty ambivalent about getting back together.

 

Since it's already set up, go ahead and meet her. I think after that though, you should stop all contact...it seems you're inadvertently being strung along...

 

I still stand by my assessment. She's ambivalent. The enthusiasm of her words is at odds with the consistent flakiness of he behavior to date--cancellations, no-shows, lack of reliability. Generally, you don't have to lecture dates about respecting your time because they've made a habit of cancelling at the last minute or not showing up. Just not the most convincing display of enthusiasm in my book. That you thought she might have given you the wrong address to meet her was also telling....She was either incredibly busy...or she's not that interested....

 

...so busy. Busy with another guy and it didn't work or isn't working, busy with school, a job, whatever. For reasons that only she knows, she refocused her attention recently...

 

Since my statements "shamelessly" encourage him to date this woman, what would you deem reasonable. Would you have liked me to issue an edict forbidding him to date her?

 

We all have different preferences and prioritize traits differently in picking a date/partner that is attractive to us. Some people only date blondes. Others avoid them like the plague. Still others don't care. Similarly, some detest flakiness, others see it as spontaneity and find it attractive, and for others it's irrelevant in picking someone. On and on. We are all entitled to prioritize the traits that matter to us.

 

My advice is focused on highlighting the things that struck me in the limited story that the OP provided. I did that! Do we have all the information or the full picture of the situation? No! He is much closer to it than either of us. Nor do I know his values, what he prioritizes in looking for a date, etc. I can't demand he take a particular course of action.

 

He ultimately has to decide what is best for him. Call that encouragement if you must!

 

At any rate, their date was scheduled for yesterday, so this is a moot argument.

[simonsez]

Since my statements "shamelessly" encourage him to date this woman, what would you deem reasonable. Would you have liked me to issue an edict forbidding him to date her?

The reasonable thing for him to do would be to call her up and cancel the date or just no show and no call. Perfectly reasonable.

 

I would tell him to do exactly as your ex bf did with you. Tell her no when

she wants to come back. Telling him since the date is already scheduled go ahead with it is bad advice in my opinion. We all know what they say about trying something over and over again and then expecting a different result don't you?

 

We all have different preferences and prioritize traits differently in picking a date/partner that is attractive to us. Some people only date blondes. Others avoid them like the plague. Still others don't care. Similarly, some detest flakiness, others see it as spontaneity and find it attractive, and for others it's irrelevant in picking someone. On and on. We are all entitled to prioritize the traits that matter to us.

That has nothing to do with anything I am talking about. I didn't see him say anything about specifically why he liked her or what about her he was attracted to. It is obvious from his posts though that he doesn't find her actions of cancelling dates, no shows and not being reliable, as one of his preferences that is attractive to him.

 

His thread is entitled "Assessment On How I'm Doing"

That is what I did in my response to him.

To have any chance to turn this around, he needs to do as I suggested.

I don't care what his preferences and priorities in a woman are. Unless he is attracted to a woman who breaks dates and breaks up, doesn't return calls, and no shows while he sits waiting in a coffee shop, then I would suggest he get some backbone. Nice guys with backbone can be very attractive. You should know that, right? Your ex bf showed some backbone.

I would have advised him to do exactly as he has done to you. The reality no matter how much you deny it is that it worked.

You seem to still want him back after nearly a year. Interesting, but precisely my point. It actually happens quite often if one pays attention to these things.

 

I think maybe you should be doing more listening and learning since you still are not healed from your own situation instead of trying to preach to me. I have a great relationship that has continued for many years. I am only on here to help because relationships are a passion of mine. I have helped many relationships turn around. I have seen this situation on this thread thousands of times. What he is doing doesn't work. I would be lying and deceiving him if I said he could, when I know it won't. His best chance is to get a backbone and let her believe he is done with her. Once she thinks she has gone too far and may have lost him for good is when he may have his best chance to get her back for good AND KEEP HER.

 

When and if that point comes, I would like to be able to steer him through it. HE needs to be in control of this and he CAN be if he chooses. Right now SHE is in control. Not good for a "nice guy." It is time for him to stand strong. Women are attracted to emotionally strong men and have a hard time feeling the right things for a pushover. That isn't news to those who study reality in relationships.

Edited November 30, 2012 by simonsez