royal Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Hi All, Almost two months after the incident, I have a sad update on the situation.... I found out after the second week back from work that she had been lying to me about wanting to get back together just so I would pay off the line of credit we had obtained to buy a house. After this news I stopped emailing her and speaking with her at work. But I still emailed her to her home account. She never wrote back however. Consequently, I was fired from my job on Thursday after she accused me of harassment. I was being professional in the office but was still emailing her at home trying to get her to come back to me still. I made a website for her of us having oral sex that was intended for her eyes only and she went and showed it to the investigator and her bosses. I know, a bad mistake. She also thought I was making idle threats to her about telling her bosses about what happened that night. As it turned out, she had anyways. The whole situation was such a disaster. My life is now in ruins having lost, my fiancee, my house, my job and any hope of reconciliation with the girl of my dreams. Can it get any worse? She apparently felt threatened by me and thought I was stalking her so my employer decided to let me go after this. Suffice to say, I am beyond devasated...I have a six year old son and am worried about being able to provide for him right now. I was so in love with her and couldn't accept losing her. The good thing is I will be able to finally move beyond her now because I won't see her again. By the way, I sent her a link to the original thread and she presented that in the case against me too even though it was completely anonymous. Leason learned...don't date co-workers!
Velveteel Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 "Don't date co-workers" is not the lesson to be learned here. "LET GO" is the lesson to be learned. All your efforts to get her back only pushed her further away. The oral sex website--what were you thinking? Well, you weren't thinking. You were just feeling. You were hurt and desperate. That's natural. But you need to recognize these emotions when they arise and JUST FEEL THEM. Do not act on them. It took me years and years to learn not to act on impulse, and not to assume that because I'm in pain or need, I can chase someone down and get what I want from them. It takes some insight into the other person's position. Expressing yourself (over and over) is rarely the best move when someone is trying to get away from you. You're thinking, "I'm not emailing her at work, so it's okay." And she's thinking, "This guy keeps writing me. He ignores the fact that I don't want him. I'm getting really afraid. Maybe I should do something to protect myself." Buy a few books on relationships, and maybe a book or two on loss. I know you're in agony right now, but you can look at this as an opportunity to make yourself stronger. Then you'll be ready to find the real girl of your dreams. I hope you get a new job right away, and regain some sense of security.
soccorsilly Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 The words may be harsh, but come on--a website devoted to her giving you head and somehow you feel that on the WORLD wide web it is only going to be for her eyes only! Of course that was harassing, defaming, slander, and stalking. This is no way to get the girl of your dreams back, and having a 6 yr old son, I would have hoped you would have thought this through a bit more. My suggestion is that if there are no criminal charges, pack up and relacate and try to become re-employable in a city distant from where you are. You are a marked man now, and you can bet that if it is as public as it sounds, there are plenty of folks talking about it as it is! By the way, be sure to take that website offline, and for future web antics, EVERYTHING you do is recorded someplace. Loveshack I am sure has a list of your IP Address which can return it back to you!
moimeme Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Leason learned...don't date co-workers! Wrong. LessonS learned: Don't get drunk when out. Don't think that you have a 'right' to push, pull, punch, pinch, hit, or in any other way use any sort of force against someone if you don't like what she does. Don't continue to contact someone when she's asked you to stop contacting her. Don't make sexual websites 'for' anybody, particularly anybody who has broken up with you. And, most of all, get into therapy and stay there until you understand why the above paragraph contains the lessons you should learn.
soccorsilly Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 I am 42 and when I was like 8 my father pulled me aside and said "You never hit a girl--period!" My father is now 83 fairly frail and I am sure I could kick his a$$ but I am absolutely terrified of him and his veiled "threat" about what might happen to me if he ever found out I hit a girl. I am also instilling this into my son. There are so many other ways out of a situation other than hitting. I had plenty of opportunity when I discovered my ex wife was running around, and I did resort to some pretty horrible name calling on occasion, but throughout the whole ordeal--I remembered my father's words. And for the record, I also think (contrary to your original post) that you are an abuser--it may not be overt, but it is there. You shoved a lady, you pushed when asked not to push, you pressured, and when you did not get your way, you published perhaps one of the most intimate acts two people can have for the entire world to see. You are a HORRIBLE role model for your son...hopefully there is someone else in his life where he can draw his ideals of right and wrong
RowanRavyn Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 A-freaking-men! If I were your ex wife I would use that information to make sure you didn't see your son again.
supermom Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 You are a HORRIBLE role model for your son...hopefully there is someone else in his life where he can draw his ideals of right and wrong A-freaking-men! If I were your ex wife I would use that information to make sure you didn't see your son again. Whoa whoa whoa, okay THAT was a bit harsh. Yes, I know what he did was wrong, a BIG mistake, but as a parent, please, that is too harsh IMHO to say that in regards to his son needing to be taken away. People make mistakes, and I'm sure that the lessons here were (hopefully) learned, but don't go there with the son. Royal, I think that if your son was a witness to any of this, have a talk with him and make sure that daddy made a big mistake and that what you did was wrong. This way also he will see that mistakes do happen and learning from them is the best way. Good luck
RowanRavyn Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Sorry when it comes to kids, I won't back down. I took my kids 3,000 miles to get them away from an abusive father. Children are a responsibility and a gift, NOT privilege.
soccorsilly Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Hey Supermom---did you read the original postings? There were like 100 responses and only now it seems that some more info is coming out. No apologoes here either--the guy has some problems and is not a good role model--not saying that his son needs to be taken away--that is for the authorities to decide. But this is not a story of a guy who pushed his fiancee because she was dirty dancing with another guy....this is much more and I stand behind my opinion---
supermom Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Hey Supermom---did you read the original postings? There were like 100 responses and only now it seems that some more info is coming out. I did read the original posting, but yes, I thought it was only about him 1 time pushing his fiancee because she was dancing w/ another guy. Apparently I don't have all the info, because as a mom myself, I would protect my daughter no matter what. Sorry to SoccorSilly and RowanRavyn...
moimeme Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 What is wrong with you people? It would NOT be OK to push anybody 'because she was dancing with someone'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You do NOT use force on someone because they did something you didn't like. Period.
Craig Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 Royal, you didn't get a lesson to not date co-workers you got a lesson never to use any sort of force or violence. Unless your life or someone else's life is in imminent danger you can always choose non-violence. You asked could it get any worse? The answer is yes it could get a lot worse if you have any more contact with your ex. Even now, your ex could have had you arrested for Criminal Harassment (Canada's anti-stalking law you can find it in the Criminal Code of Canada on the web) and then you'd spend $5,000 to $15,000 over the next one to two years dealing with the courts and the rest of your life dealing with an arrest record and possible criminal conviction. If you think that you haven't done enough to get arrested think again because your ex only has to have a reasonable fear for her safety from a one time incident to get you arrested and convicted. I hope for your sake that you don't have any more contact at all with your ex.
nitram100 Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 website of her giving you oral sex, that is some funny ass ****
gobain Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 GOOD LORD! To think there actually could be more! royal - Stop blaming her for you continuous bad judgment and lack of discretion. Stop seeing yourself as the victim in all this. You are not the victim. You are a guy with serious control issues and aggressive tendencies. You keep making excuses for totally unacceptable behavior and trying to seem like your somehow misunderstood. Your ex understands you perfectly - and thank God she does. I, for one, have no sympathy for you losing your job. You pull your son out of a hat - after never before mentioning that you had one through all of this - as if to garner pity for your circumstances. There is no pity for you. You are an abuser. You are a stalker. You use people and situations only for your own abject gratification and you deserve whatever penalties the Universe and God have in mind for you. There was a stretch when I thought that perhaps I had been too harsh in my assessment of your situation and I tried to temper my responses. But obviously my first instinct was correct and I was not nearly harsh enough. You'll find no more comfort here.
Author royal Posted August 10, 2004 Author Posted August 10, 2004 Hi there, Just wanted to respond to a few posts on my update: Velveteel: Yeah, I know I made some stupid mistakes. I wanted her back so bad. She was my whole life. The oral sex website was actually one she made of me going down on her. I just put it up on my personal site (that noone else knows about ) and asked he to remember the good times we had. As crazy as it was it was just intended as a rtomantic (albeit desperate) gesture. IN the end, this is what probably cost me my job. Thanks for advice. Soccersilly: Again, it was her movie. I just reminded her about it. I don'tthink there will be any charges laid because I ahven't tried to contact her since I was let go. She has nothing to fear from me anyways. Moimeme: I already learned all those lessons. I've been in therapy since the incident as was hoping she would take me back seeing that I was improving myself. Instead it got worse. She didn't even want to be my friend anymore. I won't get back into the incident at this point. That was debated in the original post ad nauseum. This whole event has been so destructive I never want her or anyone else to go through it again. In regards to my son: He never saw any of this. I wanted him to have anormal life and that is what she represented to me for him. We were a month away from buying a house and getting engaged when I pushed her. Supermom: I never pushed or harassed her after the event. I emailed her at home and once she asked me not to speak to her at work I respected that. She felt I had threatened her because I asked her to not make the incident public..Which she did anyways. And my reputation went with it. I never did anything to her once I found this out, so her perceptions of me as a threat were just paranoia as far as I was concerned. I really wanted to be professional with her. BIf I harassed her, then it should have been the police not my work dealing with it then. Moimeme: I will never push anyone again. It was the biggest mistake of my life and it cost m,e everything. Craig: Don't worry Craig, I won't email her or call her anymore. She has made it perfectly clearnow she doesn't want anything to do with me. You have to understand that she was up and down and back and forth on getting back together with me. It was only after we paid off a shared loan we had that she stopped 'manipulating me'. I was honestly thinking she was still in love with me whenI was emailing her. Gobain: I'm not blaming her. I never have. I have accepted responsibil;ity for the events of that night and since. I told the complete truth to the investigator. She had suffered enough because of my mistakes. I've even agreed to pay her $2000 for a loan we had together so she doesn't have to bear the financial burden and get on with her life. I've apologized to her family as well and didn't like to cover my own ass. I'm doing all I can to make the situation end smoothly. I'm not looking for sympathy. Just to let you all know how this turned out. I never stalked her by the way...I sent her a few romantic emails thinking we were still in love bcause she led me on (apparently just to get me to pay off a loan ahe confessed). I admitted my abusive act as well and have been in counsellling to overcome it. I will become a better person out of this regardless of your quick judgements.
RowanRavyn Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 I am glad to hear that you have been in therapy. I am glad that you see the mistakes you made. I didn't assume that your son saw any of this, but I have a zero tolerance for violence and children. He is bound to be affected by her sudden disappearance from his life, as well as your stress levels and such after the situation. Kids are perceptive. What do you tell him when he asks about her? What do you say to him when you are sitting around depressed and obsessing over her instead of throwing a ball around with him? Maybe he didn't see it, but your actions have no doubt had a huge impact on his life, and he is forced to deal with this in his own way as much as you are. Your actions have made a difference in his livelihood as much as it has yours. I based my reaction off of the information I had here. Again I will say it....kids are not a privilege. You are sorry it happened, regret things, but there are still consequences for your actions, and your actions directly affect your son. Quite frankly is sickens me that you are now making it sound like you stalked this woman for your son's benefit.
gobain Posted August 11, 2004 Posted August 11, 2004 I think, royal, that you go through the motions of contrition very well. I think that you say all the things that you should say in a situation like this. And I'm sure on some level you believe what you say. It just doesn't go deep enough - yet You still have a skewed perspective, in my opinion. You still don't see that this is something you brought on entirely by your own actions. Even after admitting that what you did was an "abusive act", you still tried to control the situation to reflect what YOU wanted and what YOU needed - with little regard for what she was actually going through. You give little thought to how and incident like this truly can affect a woman - and did affect her. Like I said, you say all the right things, but the actions you've posted here belie the things you've said. You talk about how you were "manipulated" by her into thinking there was a chance for you. She worked with you. She had financial ties to you. It was to her benefit that she not tell you immediately that there was no chance of you two being together. Just as it was to your benefit to make a show of seeking counseling, talking to her parents, et al, to serve what YOU wanted. We all serve our own purposes and she did what she had to do. She exerted some control and, yes, manipulated the situation to her advantage. More power to her. And despite what you say, you do, at least in some ways, still bame her. Deep down, aren't you angry that she wouldn't forgive you? You may accept that pushing her was wrong, but you blame her for the breakup totally. She wouldn't give you a chance, she "manipulated" you, she should see that you didn't mean it or that it would never happen again. It was "her movie" that got posted after she was done with you so that absolves you too. I don't believe that your remorse is for your own actions but instead for her response to your actions. You speak only of what this cost you - but never of what it has cost her. My opinion here may be unpopular. I understand that you came to this site, as did I, for comfort and advice. But I think you also came to find some sort of justification or absolution. For others to help you believe the lies you tell yourself. I hope that you keep up with therapy. I hope that one day you will actually feel the things you say. But I believe that, right now, what you feel is some misplaced and unjustified self-pity.
Author royal Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 Gobain, I love how you pretend to actually know how I feel. I appreciate your words though. You do have keen insight that I really appreciate reading anyways. So you know, I have truly felt remorse and shame for what's happened and have done allot to make amends. If I was really as bad a guy as you and some other members would like to assume, would I have gone into counselling? Would I have paid for the debts? Would I have tried to make amends with her family? Wouldn't I have saught some retribution against her for getting me fired? Probably not. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I am feeling any pity for myself it is because I upset because I feel like I have done allot to make things better. You should know too that in my previous relationship I went through worse and got back together so I am trying to overcome that pattern with this situation as well. For me, you're right , my issue is definetly control. I have been trying to control the situation and with the help of my counselling I have been learning about how this has been manifesting itself in this breakup. I am trying to let her go..I haven't had any contact in a week now with her (partly in fear of being charged, but also because I told her I couldn't anymore because every gesture I took was misunderstood I felt). Not seing her anymore has made that easier. No more reinforcement or temptation... I'm trying to understand what it is she is going through. All I can grasp at this point is what my cousellor is telling me about her feeling manipulated due to her past history ( molested, other harassing ex's etc.) and how this explains her reactions to all my seemingly innocent romantic gestures. What do you think a wmaon who has been abused by someone she loved goes through.? Help me understand. I know there is isome distrust, some emotional rollercoasters and some anger. I don't have a problem with her manipulating me at all. I agree that we all try to get what we want. That's just human nature. We were both adults and got allot out of our relationship, I told her. It was a win win thing. And yes, I wish she would have forgiven me but the situation was such that it became impossible once her friends and family became involved. She is a big girl and her past played a big role in how she reacted to me too. And my past also played a big role in what happend asnd since. I guess this is what I will eventually have to come to terms with (deeply as you say) and use as the basis for forgiving myself and her for everything. Originally, I came her looking for help in getting her back. Then it became more of a cathartic experience for me. Somewhere to get all this out and see if there was a persepctive that I wasn't seeing. You and many others have helped me in that respect. So thanks for your thoughts on my situation. It's been two months to the day that I pushed her by the way and I am still in therapy and making some breakthroughs. My counsellor thinks this whole experience has been 'transformative' for me. I never want this to happen again and I understand now why it happened and why she reacted the way she did. I want to overcome my 'control' issue. I'm trying to pick up the pieces of my shattered life from this and know that it in time things will settle down. I will find a job. I will have another relationship (not for 6 months at least, when I'm healed and over my issues from this and my previous relationship). I will find a new home that doesn't have all the memories of us in it and start fresh. My counsellor thinks it's for the best that it happened now before we were married and owning a home together. She thinks that because she never dealt with her molestation that it would have come out eventually and something else would have happened. And because I never dealt with my baggage from my past relationship (until now) chances are something else could have triggered me to react the way I did. That being said, I still have these moments of utter shame and regret whenI'm alone where I scream at myself for what I did. How could I ruin such an amazing relationship? How could I do such a thing to someone I loved so dearly? All I can do to overcome this shame and regret is accept responsibility for what happened and that is what I am trying to do and have done. It's difficult in this medium to get things across sometimes. You post a response to one person and another reads it without the background and reacts. I've felt this a few times here. It was abuse and I was trying to control her. I just wanted to earn her forgiveness and do everything possible to get her back and the opinions here helped me through. Even yours. Cheers, R.
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