ThaWholigan Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 How am I being an idiot for saying the truth? Because there are short, ugly dudes that get laid too. Don't try to hide behind the tall/good-looking excuse. Are you denying that women want to be physically attracted to a man?I'm certainly not, but you are saying that only tall/"good looking" guys are physically attractive to women and nobody else. Are you denying that you are physically attractive to women?Certainly not, I AM attractive to women - but not 80% of women. I don't use "percentages" to talk about this stuff because it's retarded, but if I put a percentage on it - I would say I'm attractive to about 20% of women. Probably way less even, that's me being generous. 1
xxoo Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Even my H cares about this stuff, which has always surprised me a little bit. When I do get "dolled up," he often asks me why I don't do it more often and tells me that I look even more beautiful with makeup on. He needs to take you places worth getting "dolled up" But again....caring for appearance and obsessing are two different things! One is attractive, and one is not.
somedude81 Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Haha, I actually live in fitopia. But the stats in US do not look good. The problem with the stats is that they are nation wide and encompass all races. I'm sure there are states out there where the majority of women under 35 are obese, but that's not in an area where I live. Another factor would be the official stats of saying when a person is overweight. I could look at a woman who is medically overweight, but she looks just fine to me. Really the only girls I have a problem are the really big girls This hold is common in salsa and when the girl is more than a certain size, it becomes very awkward to do.
Nightsky Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 I would say it's easier statistically for a random women to get laid than some random dude. Obviously if you take two successful (money, health, happy, etc.) people and make them any where over 23 yrs old for example, the power sways in the mans favor. At younger ages an 18 year old girl for example in most cases will command greater sexual power than an 18 year old guy in most cases. As for losers well, a loser girl (no money, no health, unhappy, etc.) will do better than her counterpart guy. In fact being a loser girl and simply looking not fat really could be enough to get you a wide range of dates. So that's where the complaints probably come from. Here's the thing, you're an individual not a statistic. So, if you're a guy who has no money, never will or wants to make much money, out of shape an unhealthy,etc... if you're just confident you will get women.
maybealone Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 All I know is that a very small number of men have women throwing themselves at them. But I thought women had to do nothing to get dates! Throwing myself at a man sounds like work to me. 3
somedude81 Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Because there are short, ugly dudes that get laid too. Don't try to hide behind the tall/good-looking excuse. The majority of them don't. The ones that do have found some hook that gives them an edge. I'm certainly not, but you are saying that only tall/"good looking" guys are physically attractive to women and nobody else.Yup. The women are certainly not physically attracted to the short ugly guys you just mentioned. Those guys do something to overcome their unattractiveness. Certainly not, I AM attractive to women - but not 80% of women. I don't use "percentages" to talk about this stuff because it's retarded, but if I put a percentage on it - I would say I'm attractive to about 20% of women. Probably way less even, that's me being generous. Just because women fight for the top 20% of men doesn't mean that 80% of all women think one of those 20% of men are attractive. That's a logic error. BTW, being attractive to 20% of women is really good. I'm probably physically attractive to .0002% of women. But I thought women had to do nothing to get dates! Throwing myself at a man sounds like work to me. Made me laugh
sweetjasmine Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 He needs to take you places worth getting "dolled up" But again....caring for appearance and obsessing are two different things! One is attractive, and one is not. He does, when we have the time. I do enjoy getting dolled up a few times a month, but if I had to do it every day out of a sense of obligation, I'd hate it. And, yes, caring and obsessing are two different things. I don't think I've met any man who obsesses over women's makeup/hair/nails. Then again, if I did, I wouldn't want to be near them anyway and would've probably forgotten them... My general point, though, was that younger men these days really do seem to care about makeup/hair/nails, and you really are an outlier if you don't buy into it. I don't think it's too much of a stretch with comparing the sense of obligation to get dolled up to the sense of obligation to pay for someone's dinner. I definitely wore makeup on my first date with H and would've felt extremely uncomfortable if I hadn't. But I do agree with Mme that you don't need to spend a ton of money on primping and preening or shrivel up and die an old, ugly, lonely maid.
ThaWholigan Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 The majority of them don't. The ones that do have found some hook that gives them an edge. Yup. The women are certainly not physically attracted to the short ugly guys you just mentioned. Those guys do something to overcome their unattractiveness. Just because women fight for the top 20% of men doesn't mean that 80% of all women think one of those 20% of men are attractive. That's a logic error. BTW, being attractive to 20% of women is really good. I'm probably physically attractive to .0002% of women. Made me laugh All of that is pointless, you're worrying about sh*t that is inconsequential.
Timmy2020 Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 some girls think that they are easy and some girls not think like that.
xxoo Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 And, yes, caring and obsessing are two different things. I don't think I've met any man who obsesses over women's makeup/hair/nails. Then again, if I did, I wouldn't want to be near them anyway and would've probably forgotten them... I meant women obsessing over their own appearance. I was originally responding to this post: Oh but they do! But not the way you'd think. Do you know how much time and effort a woman spends and obsesses over her appearance in her lifetime? Even the tiniest flaw is unacceptable in this society. I doubt men obsess like that as much as women do, or feel such huge pressure from media, fashion, newspapers, magazines, celebs. To the point of multiple plastic surgeries, boob enhancements, nose jobs, immaculate makeup, hair and clothes. Even becoming anorexic. If you were a woman for a day and felt this pressure, you'd praise your lucky stars you're a man. I don't believe that level of obsession on appearance is helpful, or attractive. If that is the woman's "effort" to win a man, I believe those efforts are misplaced. 1
crude Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Reversing roles is a good way to prove who has it easy. If women think men do, then let them ask endless men out and pay for the dates. I doubt women want that.
SmileFace Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Reversing roles is a good way to prove who has it easy. If women think men do, then let them ask endless men out and pay for the dates. I doubt women want that. However when a women says she will do this or does this - goes complain about her being too aggressive. 1
sweetjasmine Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 I don't believe that level of obsession on appearance is helpful, or attractive. If that is the woman's "effort" to win a man, I believe those efforts are misplaced. Ah, I see. Sorry, read the thread too fast. I agree, but I wouldn't view those extreme things listed (surgery, anorexia, deep obsession with immaculate makeup/hair/clothes) as efforts to "win" a man. I think people who get to that point are more motivated to act that way by severely low self-esteem and other psychological problems, like a feeling of lack of control over their lives in general. Maybe they'll convince themselves it's to win a man, but I don't think someone who's just trying to look pretty for a date will go so far without some underlying psych issue. None of that is attractive, no matter how pretty it might make someone look. The only exception, IMO, is people who choose cosmetic surgery because they truly want it for themselves and think it will improve their lives, not because they feel pressured or hideous or unloved. 1
carhill Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Is facing rejection easier than handing it out? I have no idea. If/when a lady asks me on a date, I'll hopefully gain some anecdotes supporting empathy for one potential why.
Nightsky Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Is facing rejection easier than handing it out? I have no idea. If/when a lady asks me on a date, I'll hopefully gain some anecdotes supporting empathy for one potential why. I find it flattering to get asked out even if I'm going to be saying no. I'm telling you my friend enjoy the day you get to reject.
crude Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 However when a women says she will do this or does this - goes complain about her being too aggressive. There are different types of guys. Neanderthal types wouldn't like it, but what about nicer guys? It's as if all men are judged by the behavior of the jerks; they create the standards. Enlightened guys exist, might even be 1/2 the population.
carhill Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 I find it flattering to get asked out even if I'm going to be saying no. I'm telling you my friend enjoy the day you get to reject. I've had small experience with that dynamic, but unfortunately the anecdotes are relevant to the unhealthy advances of otherwise committed individuals, so such 'rejections' are more boundary patrol rather than 'thanks but no thanks' to genuine and healthy interest. My take is that, for those women who think men have it easier dating, they generally project internal feelings regarding life experiences onto the dynamic across gender lines. I certainly wouldn't argue that it's gender-specific but perhaps nuances of the processes are unique to each gender; the construct of the 'why'.
xxoo Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Ah, I see. Sorry, read the thread too fast. I agree, but I wouldn't view those extreme things listed (surgery, anorexia, deep obsession with immaculate makeup/hair/clothes) as efforts to "win" a man. I think people who get to that point are more motivated to act that way by severely low self-esteem and other psychological problems, like a feeling of lack of control over their lives in general. Maybe they'll convince themselves it's to win a man, but I don't think someone who's just trying to look pretty for a date will go so far without some underlying psych issue. None of that is attractive, no matter how pretty it might make someone look. Whenever women suggest that women "need" to spend a lot of money and time on appearance (clothes, make up, hair, nails) to be successful dating, I wonder if they are wasting a lot of time and money. That level of money (buying certain brands of make up and clothes, etc) is competition with other women, imo. Very few men care if your purse is LV, and most that do are gay
Oxy Moronovich Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 However when a women says she will do this or does this - goes complain about her being too aggressive. Guys also complained that women who wanted to focus on work instead of starting a family were too aggressive. Did that stop women?
phineas Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Is facing rejection easier than handing it out? I have no idea. If/when a lady asks me on a date, I'll hopefully gain some anecdotes supporting empathy for one potential why. Good question. However I can't honestly remember the last time a woman told me straight up she wasn't interested. I have had the flake or just plain ignore me.
Revolver Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Terrible analogy. Men strive for wealth and power to dominate and influence the masses, not to compete. No, men Strive for Money and power to get girls first. All that other stuff comes after
aed Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) Men also NEED to spend money on clothes, jewelery (watches etc). They need to have a good haircut etc. So both genders need to spend money on their appearances, in this time of age. I don't understand this is even brought up as an agrement why one gender has the disadvanced. My own vision: From a biological level men and women want different things in different perspective but have the same goal (mating= babies)! 1) Women want and need a connection. 2) Men want to get selected (yes women are the selectors on a biological level), this way if a man get selected he can invest his seed 'in' this girl for his offspring. The same girl chooses wisely and feels a good connection so that the man wont walk away and can provide and protect her the offspring. The genes and hormones we got makes us the way we react and do. So that men are persecutors comes from our instinct that we create options so that we get selected for mating. Also it shows different male trades that women find attractive: (taking risk, going for his own goals etc. Because does men will look a little further than the average 10 miles for food. They will go after a bear if it's needed) The thing is we are stil the same people for 90% that we where 100.000 years ago, but because of our cognictive evolutions and our use and bioligical adaption of instruments we have some controle over this process. But the basis is still there: Example: Al men know that most of them wont say NO to a guick hookup. It all depands on how easy he can get it. So a brad Pitt won;t probaly go with the average girl, because the dude gets selected like 23/7. Girls also know this! (example:a (healty looking) wallflower girl, who is showing some interest in an available guy, will most likely succed when she initiates for directly sex, kissing him etc or walk naked in his bed etc.) When that same girl/woman chooses more guys, some guys will think she is a slut/easy because she selects to easy. ( So back to our anciesters: there is a to great risk if the man goes hunting for 2 months he comes back and she is pregnant by some other dude, and back in prehistory man would kill the women and man if they would find out). So this why I think girls hate the sigma of sluts (because they will lose there mating value with a potential good men) In our age: allot of this theory does't apply anymore because: we have birthcontrole, condoms, healthcare, welfare etc. So there is still no direct risk of complete investment in each other for both genders. But the biological fears and wired assumption and reasoning are still in side us. But who has it easier?: both have pros and cons. Yet I understand the complaining from allot of guys, and from a guys perspective, women have easier acces to what they (men) desire most (sex). On the other hand i think men have it easier in the outside world (exept of dating). Women need to work harder to reach the top. Men and Women will take less from a female supervisor then a male (so she has to work harder etc). A man's opion has more value in allot of things then a female's. She how there still hasn't bin a female president... I thought both clinton and obama whore suited for the job. But most people selected for Obama So both genders have pros and cons i my opinion Edited November 25, 2012 by aed
carhill Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Good question. However I can't honestly remember the last time a woman told me straight up she wasn't interested. I have had the flake or just plain ignore me. The last time I truly faced rejection, and 'survived' that experience, was when my exW said yes to my marriage proposal, and that was nearly 13 years ago. Prior, it was a routine occurrence, meaning receiving direct rejections, as in "I'm not interested" or "I don't feel that way about you" or similar. Although such direct utterances are one potential primary difference, I was speaking more to the psychological impact of such experiences, along with what you outlined, meaning 'flaking' and 'being stood up' and 'I changed my mind', etc, etc. By 'facing', I meant more than facing direct words and actions; it is facing the totality of long-term rejection and the effects on one's psychology as one potential reason, if experienced, such a man might argue against men having it easier in dating. Further, IME, it takes active processing to avoid projecting that experience onto ones perception of women, one aspect to avoid presuming all they do is accept or reject and there is little investment in the process for them as a potential 'why' men have it easier. In reality, it's an unknown, just as a man's psychology surrounding the dating/mating process is largely unknown to women. No, men Strive for Money and power to get girls first. All that other stuff comes after As a young man, I argued against this, and followed my own path of 'enrichment' outlier to societal norms, but soon saw the realities of which men had successful relationships and marriages which survived incursions/conflict/temptations and also were those who had it 'easier' dating a multiplicity of women. Good life lesson. As I aligned myself more with societal norms in my 30's, my dating success improved and eventually I got married. I came to 'have it easier' solely by conforming to the group-think of the times. Outlier behaviors, then and now, are seldom acknowledged or rewarded. Outlier is outlier and necessarily 'hard'. As I don't mind being alone now, I ceased conforming and am happy with the results; overall, it's 'easier'. Hence, if a woman makes such an (dating is easier for men) assertion now, I happily nod my head. Agreement is usually the easiest way to move them along.
ascendotum Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 However when a women says she will do this or does this - goes complain about her being too aggressive. I've never heard a guy bitch about having women flirt with him and suggest going out or doing something together with him....with the exception of guys who are in shape complaining about the only girls who seen to come on strong with them are the over weight girls, but even then I had the impression the girls generally were not actually asking the guy out, just coming on strong in the attraction. A guy who has lots of options could be dismissive of girls that ask him out if he thinks they are below his league. I've hung out with really good looking guys and many women, flirt like stink for these guys. Phone numbers and business cards are handed to them unsoliciated. They don't complain (except a couple in a jokey manner with a smile on their face). If they don;t fancy her, they ignore her and focus on the other prospects or sleep with her and forget about her. The later is a risk for women, but if they get a good feel for the guy and his nature and feel there is strong attraction back and don't try to snag the guy is not out of her league then they will minimize this. I think this is bogus claim along with the one that guys will think the girl is a slut for overtly flirting/hinting about hanging out with him. Guys who are not a player will appreciate the girl making it easy for him to know she is really into him. Players will appreciate it but only for a sure thing.
crude Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Whenever women suggest that women "need" to spend a lot of money and time on appearance (clothes, make up, hair, nails) to be successful dating, I wonder if they are wasting a lot of time and money. That level of money (buying certain brands of make up and clothes, etc) is competition with other women, imo. Very few men care if your purse is LV, and most that do are gay Not only do men need to spend money on clothes, haircuts and gyms, but many women expect the man to chauffeur them around in a nice car. That costs more than anything women spend money on. Hell, even gas costs a bundle.
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