Total Mindf$%!.. No idea what i did, what do i do..

[Jay08]

Downtown, I want to thank you for such a detailed response. You and others have helped me finally to 'let go'. I still love her, im not completely over her, but for the first time i have stopped holding on.

 

I am sorry you had to deal with that for 15 years, and whats sad, is i would have dealt with it if i had not stumbled upon your information. I truely feel sorry for this girl, as she will never experience a true commitment and relationship like everyone deserves. She will never be capable of understanding what its like to equally be loved, and this whole experience is actually a torment for her. Although i do feel she did "love" me, and one day she will miss me. And unfortunately, i will not be there for her anymore. I just hope she doesnt find me like she did last time. lol.

 

I should have understood the consequences when she first started crying to me and complaining about how her dad left her when she was 3. The sad thing is, when she was 16 her dad actually contacted her and told her to move in with him, which she did. Then (for reasons she never told me, surely she is hiding something), he kicked her back out a year later

 

One thing that is different about your situation however, it seems like my ex did like to lie. And im confused as to what projection is. The thing about her lies though, was that i believe she actually believed the lies she told me, so in essence, they werent really "lies" to her, because she thought it was the truth. She one time, in the middle of my friends bar, completely went crazy because some girl had checked me out. She then started insisting she knows im texting her because "someone told her", she knows i had sex with her, and knows i called her up there. I had know idea what woman she was actually talking about, to this day i still dont know, she never existed.She totally went apesh*t in the bar.

 

 

Well, i will keep you all updated on the situation, mainly for anybody in a similar situation searching these forums who may have had the same curiousities i did. It may be especially helpful for those who are involved with a quiet BDP.

 

And let me tell anyone listening, wondering the torment of a quiet BDP. As downtown has explained, just because they are not raging, and physically abusive, does not mean it hurts less. So much time i spent, trying to fix this broken relationship. Whenever i wanted to be mature and talk our problems out, I got laughter from her. A smile on her face. She would mock me, then she may shed a tear somewhere in there, to keep me feeling guilty, and it would work. Because i would lay next to her, and apologize,FOR HER MISTAKES. I would lay there, thinking.. "Surely, if we are always arguing, it cant be just her, MAYBE im doing something wrong. MAYBE i deserved her behavior because i did something to make her do it." And she will make you think that, that is for sure. And once she convinces you that was actually what it was, you apologize, and she tells you its okay, she just wants things to be good all the time between us, like happy times.

 

But it gets worse. Maybe one time, you do actually make a mistake, or do something for her to be upset about. Well, if this happens to you, you mine as well just leave it there. Because you want to know what these people do to you in that scenario? They go right to another guy to bang his brains out to get revenge. She broke up with me once because i didnt follow her and her friend. Or so that was her excuse. You know why i didnt follow her? Because she didnt want me to. I knew she didnt want me to, so i didnt. And then, when i made a right instead of a left, i got a text saying "You just messed everything up!" That was her temporary break from me to bang another guy, which i found out 4 months later.

 

Sidenote: Downtown, your statement about us searching for these woman i relate to 100%. Whenever a good looking/awesome woman befriends me, i will notice i lose interest if she does not show these attributes of a BDP. In fact, it is BORING. I hate it, i even lose sexual interest in them. Hopefully there is a way to change this. Or maybe i can look for them, befriend them, and keep it there. Casual sex and someone to hang out with, and leave my emotions out of it.

[Downtown]

im confused as to what projection is.

Jay, "projection" occurs when we feel so shameful about having bad feelings or yearnings that our mind protects us by attributing (i.e., projecting) those feelings to someone else. Because it is done subsconsciously, the conscious mind is unaware that the feeling originated inside our own mind. This is why people who are thinking about cheating will oftentimes SINCERELY fear that their spouses are the ones who are thinking of cheating. Indeed, my exW did projection so frequently that I often felt I could read her mind (as to what she was planning to do) by simply observing the things she was falsely accusing me of doing. Significantly, the projection -- though false -- does not constitute a "lie" because it is not a deliberate, conscious effort to misinform the abused spouse.

 

In contrast, a lie is a deliberate, conscious misrepresentation of the truth -- and, as such, will cause her to feel shame and guilt. As you said,

"She actually believed the lies she told me,

so

in essence, they werent really "lies" to her, because she thought it was the truth."

Whenever a good looking/awesome woman befriends me, i will notice i lose interest if she does not show these attributes of a BDP. In fact, it is BORING. I hate it, i even lose sexual interest in them. Hopefully there is a way to change this.

Yes, we excessive caregivers are so addicted to the fireworks (i.e., the cocaine-like highs and withdrawal-like lows), that we find it difficult at first "to settle" for a normal, stable, emotionally available woman. We have to learn to take it slow and easy and to build strong personal boundaries.

Well, i will keep you all updated on the situation, mainly for anybody in a similar situation searching these forums who may have had the same curiousities i did. It may be especially helpful for those who are involved with a quiet BDP.

Yes, please give us updates when you have time. By sharing your own experiences, Jay, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.

[CptSaveAho]

I dont understand this thread and how she is BPD.

 

What you are failing to see is your own actions. You keep chasing a girl and hanging out with her after a relationship is over thinking you are going to win her over after how many months? You are constantly texting and calling an ex who has made a decision she doesnt want to be in a relationship with you.

 

When I read this thread, I read a guy with poor coping skills and the inability to move forward from a breakup and placing blame on an ex for being unable to do so like its her fault and she has some mystical power to do so.

 

Sorry ace, but this one is on you.

[Downtown]

I dont understand this thread and how she is BPD.

Captain, I agree that nobody on this thread knows "she is BPD." Only a professional can determine that. Rather, the issue is whether Jay is sufficiently intelligent that he can spot strong traits of BPD (i.e., the red flags) in a woman he's been dating for a year. I believe he is because there is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE between diagnosing BPD and spotting the red flags.

 

Likewise, the Mayo Clinic believes Jay is capable of spotting such traits if and when they are occurring. That's why they post the BPD traits for the lay public to read on their website at Borderline personality disorder: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com. Similarly, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) believes he can recognize BPD traits. NIMH describes BPD traits on its website for the public at NIMH · Borderline Personality Disorder. Indeed, hundreds of the leading hospitals and mental health centers are now providing this information on their Internet sites in an effort to educate the general public. They don't do so to encourage folks to diagnose their loved ones. Rather, they do it because, when people know the symptoms for a disease or disorder, they are far more likely to seek professional help and to do so quickly.

 

Before Jay graduated high school, he already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. He could identify all of the class drama queens -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. He could spot the girls having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And he could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Why, then, do you find it so hard to believe that he can spot strong BPD traits when they occur?

What you are failing to see is your own actions.... You are constantly texting and calling an ex who has made a decision she doesnt want to be in a relationship with you.

No, Jay is not describing a woman who made a sudden decision to walk away. Instead, he is describing a moody, repeated cycle of push-away and pull-back, which is one of the hallmarks of BPD behavior. Specifically, when Emilia asked "Has she done this before?," Jay replied,

Yea she has done this before but not to this level. She usually would respond hours later, or the next day. And yes i think shes a little bipolar. One day she loves me then the next day she doesnt want anything to do with me. A couple times after we broke up wed hang out for a few days than it seemed like shed get distant again.

When I read this thread, I read a guy with poor coping skills and the inability to move forward from a breakup and placing blame on an ex for being unable to do so like its her fault and she has some mystical power to do so.

Some mystical power? Placing all the blame on her? That's not what I read. On the contrary, Jay writes:

And i understand now i have issue of my own, being attracted to her type. The reason i am

so

attached to her is because she needed me. For over a year i guess i got off on the fact there was a sense of her needing me....I guess its kind of messed up on my part. How dumb of me to fall for that crap. ...its like i have an addiction to being hurt by this girl.

[CptSaveAho]

Everyone is push pull at the end of a relationship.... texts emails etc even months or years later

 

Ive done it before, does that mean I have bpd?

 

Look at all the people on the forum that do the same behaviors as his "ex". Do they all have bpd?

 

They are kids.... first relationships, first loves, etc. Everyone acts like an idiot.

 

He's essentially trying to find some "logical" reason to an "emotional" problem. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his ex's actions nor his. Its part of the process of growing up.

 

Look at the title of this thread... He's lost and looking for an explanation and people that are hurt like this after a relationship try to point blame at their ex's and paint them black while essentially they tend to "project" their own issues onto them instead of looking in a mirror... This will correct itself in time when he reaches acceptance

 

Telling him that his ex may or may not have bpd will not solve the issue at hand, which is his own emotional well being.

Edited November 24, 2012 by CptSaveAho

[Downtown]

They are kids.... first relationships, first loves, etc. Everyone acts like an idiot.... Its part of the process of growing up.

Captain, you raise a very good point. Jay, how old are you and your exGF? I ask because, as Captain points out, it is common for teenagers to exhibit strong BPD traits for several years.

 

BPD is considered to be a "spectrum disorder," which means it affects ALL of us to some degree. That is, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is emotionally healthy. These traits become a serious problem only when they are so strong, and so persistent, that they undermine close LTRs.

 

Even we non-BPDers can get strong flare-ups of our BPD traits for several years. This can occur when there is substantial hormone change, as happens during puberty (and again during pregnancies). This consideration -- together with the teens' immaturity -- is why most teens exhibit moderate to strong BPD traits. And this is why psychologists usually refuse to diagnose BPD until a person reaches 18. It therefore would be useful to know how old you two are.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Downtown

[sweetheart5381]

Captain, you raise a very good point. Jay, how old are you and your exGF? I ask because, as Captain points out, it is common for teenagers to exhibit strong BPD traits for several years.

 

BPD is considered to be a "spectrum disorder," which means it affects ALL of us to some degree. That is, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is emotionally healthy. These traits become a serious problem only when they are so strong, and so persistent, that they undermine close LTRs.

 

Even we non-BPDers can get strong flare-ups of our BPD traits for several years. This can occur when there is substantial hormone change, as happens during puberty (and again during pregnancies). This consideration -- together with the teens' immaturity -- is why most teens exhibit moderate to strong BPD traits. And this is why psychologists usually refuse to diagnose BPD until a person reaches 18. It therefore would be useful to know how old you two are.

 

Honestly, does it really matter if the ex is BPD? Does knowing that change anything?

 

At the end of the day it doesn't change a thing. It's over and there is a reason. Maybe another partner, maybe another desire, maybe abusive tendencies, maybe insecurity and the list goes on to infinity.

 

A reason is not required to accept that it's done.

 

Balls are required, aka self-respect.

 

No excuses, no bailouts, just accept it and if you feel at fault, address it. Otherwise forget it, it's the past.

 

Just my opinion

[Downtown]

Honestly, does it really matter if the ex is BPD? Does knowing that change anything? At the end of the day it doesn't change a thing.

Sweetheart, it matters A LOT if Jay is correct about his having strong codependency traits and his exGF having strong BPD traits. In that case, it is very important he learn how to spot the red flags for BPD.

 

One reason is that, as a codependent, he is at great risk of being sucked right back into the toxic relationship when she flips back to adoring him again. For codependents, such toxic relationships are highly addictive. This is so because the hateful, cold periods are intermixed with wonderful, ecstatic periods, during which we are adored and regarded as white knights who can fix anything (a codependent's notion of heaven).

 

This bouncing back and forth between enraptured highs and painful withdrawals is very similar to the behavior of people addicted to heroine, alcohol, and gambling. Hence, telling us to "simply walk away" is as useful as telling a drunk to simply toss his bottle away. Indeed, Jay says he has told his friends that he seems to be addicted to the Ex's abusive/wonderful treatment of him.

 

A second reason for learning to spot the traits is that, even if Jay manages to stay away from his Ex, he is at risk of running right into the arms of another woman just like her. He is strongly attracted to anyone projecting a strong sense of vulnerability because, as he says, he has such a powerful desire to feel like he is rescuing someone. Because BPDers always think of themselves as victims, they are masters at projecting vulnerability.

 

I have a friend, for example, who is now dating the third woman (in a row) who exhibits serious emotional instability and other strong BPD traits. And here on LoveShack, it is common to see members complaining about leaving one abuser only to end up in the arms of another.

[Jay08]

Let me say something. I appreciate the responses, but this girl is not normal.

 

Before we got involved, i was told she had issues, i thought nothing of it because i liked her. I was told shes ruined all her relationships, shes had sex with over 20 people (i met her when she was 18, thats not normal), shes ruined all her friendships, she has broke down to me and told me she knows shes messed up, and refuses to get help.

 

I am 23, she is 20. And maybe she doesnt have bpd. Maybe she just played me, and thats cool. But downtown has helped me examine my personality, which was the most helpful thing on here. I am attracted to these girls, and i know can deal with my own issue of setting emotional boundaries when it comes to these women.

 

I am getting over it, the best part about the whole thing was i always felt a sense of running back to her because I initiated the space/break and told her we needed space, after she hurt me. Then she always came back, and so i always ran back. This time, she got rid of me, and im not going to run back to her. All im trying to do is make sense of the situation. I truely believe she has strong personality traits that exhibit those of BPD, and she is the perfect candidate (dad abandonded when she was 3). Call me a p*ssy or whatever you want to, the way i see it i tried helping a girl through her problems, when she had nobody i was there for her.

 

Trust me, although she shows a majority of the signs, i still question whether she has it or not, when she probably does. But it doesnt matter. Im done with it, im moving on.

 

And for the record, i was not her first love, she had an ex boyfriend who knocked her up when she was 17 and she had an abortion, that messed her up also. She still will mention him to this day. She had another boyfriend who left for the military who she told me she was not over when i first met her. Im not her first love. She was the first girl i ever fell in love with, but its more than that. Its my own messed up mentality worrying about saving someone who doesnt want to be saved. I came on here to get advice about me. Why i keep running back when i kno shes poison. I now know why.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Jay08

[Downtown]

I am 23, she is 20.... I came on here to get advice about me. Why i keep running back when i kno shes poison. I now know why.

Jay, for such a young guy, you are amazingly resourceful and insightful. The experience with your exGF, as painful as it was, likely has given you an insight into basic human behavior and motivation that few men ever achieve in a lifetime. I applaud your accomplishment.

[Sugarkane]

Weird who actually has a thing for a neighbor? No body knows their neighbors anymore. Its unusual if you actually know them these days. Unless you live in an apartment.

[Emilia]

Everyone is push pull at the end of a relationship.... texts emails etc even months or years later

 

Ive done it before, does that mean I have bpd?

 

Look at all the people on the forum that do the same behaviors as his "ex". Do they all have bpd?

 

They are kids.... first relationships, first loves, etc. Everyone acts like an idiot.

 

He's essentially trying to find some "logical" reason to an "emotional" problem. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his ex's actions nor his. Its part of the process of growing up.

 

Look at the title of this thread... He's lost and looking for an explanation and people that are hurt like this after a relationship try to point blame at their ex's and paint them black while essentially they tend to "project" their own issues onto them instead of looking in a mirror... This will correct itself in time when he reaches acceptance

 

Telling him that his ex may or may not have bpd will not solve the issue at hand, which is his own emotional well being.

 

With respect you are talking about something you do not understand and cannot understand unless you have experienced it. Yes I know that sounds like a brush off but that's the case.

[Emilia]

Honestly, does it really matter if the ex is BPD? Does knowing that change anything?

 

At the end of the day it doesn't change a thing. It's over and there is a reason. Maybe another partner, maybe another desire, maybe abusive tendencies, maybe insecurity and the list goes on to infinity.

 

A reason is not required to accept that it's done.

 

Balls are required, aka self-respect.

 

No excuses, no bailouts, just accept it and if you feel at fault, address it. Otherwise forget it, it's the past.

 

Just my opinion

 

Your opinion which is not based on relevant experience unlike Downtown's, Jay's and mine.

[Emilia]

Jay, for such a young guy, you are amazingly resourceful and insightful. The experience with your exGF, as painful as it was, likely has given you an insight into basic human behavior and motivation that few men ever achieve in a lifetime. I applaud your accomplishment.

 

Second this.

 

Thank you to both, it's sometimes easier to put things into perspective when I read the experiences of those that truly understand.

[CptSaveAho]

This was easy to see...

 

Like I said before... both involved first loves

 

He was her first love

 

At the same time, she hadn't grieved the relationship of her first love. Talked about him to Jay. She was emotionally unavailable to be in a relationship and his being the first one, he didnt know any better. His actions now of painting his ex black is the same actions that she painted her ex black with him. Its just a vicious cycle.

 

Anybody that would date Jay and enter a relationship with him right now would come into the same fate and would be posting here 6 months - 2 years from now asking what the (^%* happened.

 

The biggest thing people can learn from this and not be a "captain save a ho" is simple, if someone talks about an ex, they are not over that relationship, and you RUN away.

[sweetheart5381]

Your opinion which is not based on relevant experience unlike Downtown's, Jay's and mine.

 

Attempting to diagnose a mental disorder is not productive when dealing with your OWN problem. A heartbreak.

 

We create our own conditions and can easily solve them as well. When you choose to open your heart to someone you also choose to get hurt potentially. That's life and it has nothing to do with the other's person's state of mind... just our own.

 

Knowing that someone does or does not have a disorder doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

 

And yes, I have very, very intimate knowledge of BPD, PTSD and a host of other mental disorders.

 

Save your judgements about others' life experiences, it just makes you sound juvenile.

[Jay08]

This was easy to see...

 

Like I said before... both involved first loves

 

He was her first love

 

At the same time, she hadn't grieved the relationship of her first love. Talked about him to Jay. She was emotionally unavailable to be in a relationship and his being the first one, he didnt know any better. His actions now of painting his ex black is the same actions that she painted her ex black with him. Its just a vicious cycle.

 

Anybody that would date Jay and enter a relationship with him right now would come into the same fate and would be posting here 6 months - 2 years from now asking what the (^%* happened.

 

The biggest thing people can learn from this and not be a "captain save a ho" is simple, if someone talks about an ex, they are not over that relationship, and you RUN away.

 

Obviously ive been in more relationships than you then. Not one girl ive ever dated who was still hung up on her ex was stable enough to carry a relationship for a year and a half with someone. I have pinpointed these girls from the very beginning ive met them. A few i got involved with complained about their ex's very routinely. This is a sign that they are not stable enough to be dating, so i let them go. This girl put me on a pedestal from day 1. I found out about her ex boyfriends months into the relationship. At this point feelings were invested, and so i did not abandon ship. This girl was very in love with me (or so she thought). I was there. It was real. If it was not, i would not be here.

 

Go back and reread the entire thread before making assessments. I've clearly stated my history with this girl, and clearly stated ive been in relationships before that I was the dumper of because these girls did not emotionally satisfy me. Telling people this thing happens all the time is not the right advice to be giving. Spending the entire last weekend with me, telling me im the love of her life, asking me when im moving in with her, begging me to stay at her house, making me breakfast, then going NC the next day, is not normal behavior.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Jay08

[CptSaveAho]

Funny thing about those emotionally unavailable girls.... its a thing they do call transference where they transfer their feelings for their ex onto you.

 

You would do the same thing if you were to enter into a relationship to the person you were dating now.

 

When you get older you can spot this in 10 seconds of dating someone, if they want to date you, or the image of you(aka rebounding)

 

Her history didnt mean jack **** to you before you dated/ fell in love.... get over it

[Jay08]

Attempting to diagnose a mental disorder is not productive when dealing with your OWN problem. A heartbreak.

 

We create our own conditions and can easily solve them as well. When you choose to open your heart to someone you also choose to get hurt potentially. That's life and it has nothing to do with the other's person's state of mind... just our own.

 

Knowing that someone does or does not have a disorder doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

 

And yes, I have very, very intimate knowledge of BPD, PTSD and a host of other mental disorders.

 

Save your judgements about others' life experiences, it just makes you sound juvenile.

 

I came here for advice as to why she acts the way she does. These people have explained she may have BPD, and this is the reason she does these things. Thats all that has been said, and im glad i asked. My story is similar to many others on the BPD family website. She may not have BPD, but she definetely has BPD characteristics that are unhealthy, I know her, ive known her for over a year and a half.

[Jay08]

Funny thing about those emotionally unavailable girls.... its a thing they do call transference where they transfer their feelings for their ex onto you.

 

You would do the same thing if you were to enter into a relationship to the person you were dating now.

 

When you get older you can spot this in 10 seconds of dating someone, if they want to date you, or the image of you(aka rebounding)

 

Her history didnt mean jack **** to you before you dated/ fell in love.... get over it

 

You are correct, and maybe you are right. How does that explain the last part i wrote you then.. So in the course of 12 hours she was just over me like that? All the feelings built over a year and a half were gone in a half a day? Come on man, that makes absolutely no sense.

[CptSaveAho]

I came here for advice as to why she acts the way she does. These people have explained she may have BPD, and this is the reason she does these things. Thats all that has been said, and im glad i asked. My story is similar to many others on the BPD family website. She may not have BPD, but she definetely has BPD characteristics that are unhealthy, I know her, ive known her for over a year and a half.

 

Little fact, every person on this planet has all 9 traits of BPD... including you

[CptSaveAho]

You are correct, and maybe you are right. How does that explain the last part i wrote you then.. So in the course of 12 hours she was just over me like that? All the feelings built over a year and a half were gone in a half a day? Come on man, that makes absolutely no sense.

 

Because the feelings weren't real... they were feelings of her ex... she realized that

 

This is the dangers of being a rebound, they realize that the feelings arent real... Ive done this before... projected feelings of an ex onto someone i was dating and waking up one day saying oh ****, what am i doing

[Jay08]

Because the feelings weren't real... they were feelings of her ex... she realized that

 

This is the dangers of being a rebound, they realize that the feelings arent real... Ive done this before... projected feelings of an ex onto someone i was dating and waking up one day saying oh ****, what am i doing

 

I know rebounds but ive never heard a rebound relationship lasting that long, and from what ive observed if a rebound lasted past the honeymoon phase usually the two people involved were in a new relationship and have moved on from the past one. I dont understand how she could convince herself for a year and a half that i was her ex. I lived with this girl and slept next to her 5 days a week. I would have seen more signs if this is the case you are talking about.

 

It doesnt really matter anyways. Im on the road to recovery.

[sweetheart5381]

Funny thing about those emotionally unavailable girls.... its a thing they do call transference where they transfer their feelings for their ex onto you.

 

You would do the same thing if you were to enter into a relationship to the person you were dating now.

 

When you get older you can spot this in 10 seconds of dating someone, if they want to date you, or the image of you(aka rebounding)

 

Her history didnt mean jack **** to you before you dated/ fell in love.... get over it

 

Here, here. That's the truth.

 

And men are exactly the same way.

 

Also, time measured in days, months, yrs doesn't matter. If they are still recanting their past relationship, they are not in the moment with the current relationship. That's a recipe for disaster and best to get the hell out.

 

The truth is, this person doesn't intend to harm, but if allowed they will.

 

Better screening = better results.

[CptSaveAho]

Good for you!