MrCastle Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 How on earth can you not see the difference between you and wholigan? Having a casual relationship is not wrong, for men or women. However judging someone for doing exactly the same thing you are doing is called being hypocritical and a lot of us find it an awful trait. Its absolutely fine to say you don't want more because of certain incompatibilities but to say because they liked casual sex just like you did and that they dont deserve a relationship (While at the same time you think you do) is just... I understand that. I get what the argument is. What I'm saying is, despite how he feels, despite what he thinks, him and I are basically doing the same thing. He just romanticizes it. We're both having casual sex with multiple partners, and both admit we are not compatible to them outside the bedroom; except he's wondering "could there be more?" and I'm saying "no, there isn't". Again, the women I'm with, I don't judge them. I love women. For ****'s sake, I made a thread three days ago titled "Female Appreciation Thread", and not all of it was based in the physical. There are times where I think "Wow, yeah, this is different, surely she gave it up so easily because she feels something for me, we share a connection." Like I said, I'm not one of those frat jocks who bangs a chick and then tells his friends to smell my fingers. I respect the women I'm sleeping with, however, in my experience, these women that sleep with you the first date are not someone you'd want to be involved with long term. Not in my experience nor that of anyone I know personally. Mes; Wholigan was guaranteed sex on the first date both times (first time he declined with girl 1 and waited a bit). He didn't leave his house saying "well, we'll see how it goes, and whatever happens happens." Both women already discussed their readiness to sleep with him before meeting him. He knew girl #2 was into rough sex before meeting her in person. How is that a spark? Leaving your house knowing full well you're about to have sex with a stranger? It's not like he planned a romantic evening and one thing led to another; he was talking all week about what a freak this girl was and whatnot. He knew it was in the bag. Outside of a few ONS, the girls I've been casual with took a few weeks, or months even, of getting to know each other, and escalation before we said, you know what, we both like each other, let's have sex. I've never met a girl online and had sex with her the first day. We're talking about a girl setting up plans for sex with you before meeting you. And I'm supposed to look at her with the same lens I view women that make me take them on dates for several weeks or months before agreeing to form a casual relationship with me? Be honest. If I messaged you on a dating site asking for sex on our first meet, would you look at me the same way you do with a guy you've slowly escalated with for several months? Or would you think I was some horny freak? We are obviously not going to come to any sort of agreement here, but that is my belief. It's one thing to have a casual relationship with someone after some level of escalation. But to set up sex with someone via a dating site, and then wonder if they are relationship material, to me, is unrealistic.
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) In another thread, I did express a sympathy for girls/women who may have been previously promiscuous or have a particular liking for sex and as a result aren't trusted to be in a faithful monogamous LTR - despite that the sexual behavior may not be rooted in dysfunction and no sign of actual infidelity. If either of the two girls were overwhelmingly compatible and expressed an interest in an LTR with me, I would consider it - particularly the most recent. I wouldn't even bat an eyelid unless there were signs that point to infidelity or similar. I think that I'm an outlier in that respect and I understand that. EDIT: (I also know how that makes me look ) It's difficult for men to accept due to the way we are taught to view such things, and I even talked with my bro and said that I felt sorry for those girls, and he simply replied "I don't.". My other brother was kinder when he said "the world needs girls like them". Me personally, I'm not trying to wife them or anything, but I wouldn't throw away an otherwise compatible LTR just because of a sexual past, as long as there was no cheating going on. Even then, there's a part of me that believes that my sex game could put paid to any infidelity related issues from previous . (It probably wouldn't). There are different types of promiscuous women out there and I don't feel that all of them deserve to be ostracized from being able to have a long term relationship. That's my position. I've known some to be incredibly faithful, and ironically they have been cheated on instead. Edited November 23, 2012 by ThaWholigan
MrCastle Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Also I'd like to add, if I recall correctly, girl 2 proposed an open relationship with Who, because she wants to continue sleeping with other people. You can't look at a girl who you slept with on first meet, who admits to wanting to sleep with other people and think "hmm, could I make it work long term with this girl?". It's just unrealistic. He knows, and has said as much. People are all different and they have to be treated accordingly, I'm sorry. I can't look at chick #2 and compare to her a girl who is holding out for sex or only wants to have one partner at a time and say they're both equal. They aren't. This crosses genders. A man who wants to sex you up day 1 is just not the same as a man willing to wait for you. Different people, different set of rules. You can't just have one blanket set of rules for everybody or else you're going to get eaten alive in the dating world.
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 also.. take into to consideration (not sure if this has already been posted) that they might be feeding off you. So you if say "I don't want a relationship," or "I'm not relationship material" they might be following suit and accepting what they hear, and you get a FWB scenario. I don't think I've said those words to either of them, but both have indicated that they were keen to have things casual for now. They obviously wanted to f*ck me and that was it . Although I'm not too sure about girl #2 at the moment - she's indicated she would consider something slightly more serious, but open/polyamorous. Still, it's unlikely as I'm not her type, and I speculate it's the orgasms talking rather than her.
MrCastle Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 There are different types of promiscuous women out there and I don't feel that all of them deserve to be ostracized from being able to have a long term relationship. That's my position. I've known some to be incredibly faithful, and ironically they have been cheated on instead. Surely there are different types of promiscuous women but I (hope) you are not suggesting long term dating an actively promiscuous woman. Past is one thing, and we all have them, and that is understandable, but my point is, you are not (again, I hope) not trying to lock down a girl who is actively promiscuous and is open about being such.
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 Surely there are different types of promiscuous women but I (hope) you are not suggesting long term dating an actively promiscuous woman. Past is one thing, and we all have them, and that is understandable, but my point is, you are not (again, I hope) not trying to lock down a girl who is actively promiscuous and is open about being such. Rest assured I am not . Even if I was, we are not compatible anyway. Different paths..... 1
mesmerized Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 I understand that. I get what the argument is. What I'm saying is, despite how he feels, despite what he thinks, him and I are basically doing the same thing. He just romanticizes it. We're both having casual sex with multiple partners, and both admit we are not compatible to them outside the bedroom; except he's wondering "could there be more?" and I'm saying "no, there isn't". Again, the women I'm with, I don't judge them. I love women. For ****'s sake, I made a thread three days ago titled "Female Appreciation Thread", and not all of it was based in the physical. There are times where I think "Wow, yeah, this is different, surely she gave it up so easily because she feels something for me, we share a connection." Like I said, I'm not one of those frat jocks who bangs a chick and then tells his friends to smell my fingers. I respect the women I'm sleeping with, however, in my experience, these women that sleep with you the first date are not someone you'd want to be involved with long term. Not in my experience nor that of anyone I know personally. Mes; Wholigan was guaranteed sex on the first date both times (first time he declined with girl 1 and waited a bit). He didn't leave his house saying "well, we'll see how it goes, and whatever happens happens." Both women already discussed their readiness to sleep with him before meeting him. He knew girl #2 was into rough sex before meeting her in person. How is that a spark? Leaving your house knowing full well you're about to have sex with a stranger? It's not like he planned a romantic evening and one thing led to another; he was talking all week about what a freak this girl was and whatnot. He knew it was in the bag. Outside of a few ONS, the girls I've been casual with took a few weeks, or months even, of getting to know each other, and escalation before we said, you know what, we both like each other, let's have sex. I've never met a girl online and had sex with her the first day. We're talking about a girl setting up plans for sex with you before meeting you. And I'm supposed to look at her with the same lens I view women that make me take them on dates for several weeks or months before agreeing to form a casual relationship with me? Be honest. If I messaged you on a dating site asking for sex on our first meet, would you look at me the same way you do with a guy you've slowly escalated with for several months? Or would you think I was some horny freak? We are obviously not going to come to any sort of agreement here, but that is my belief. It's one thing to have a casual relationship with someone after some level of escalation. But to set up sex with someone via a dating site, and then wonder if they are relationship material, to me, is unrealistic. Oh boy, you said one thing that just makes me laugh and simply shows how men actually love playing little games even though they say they don't. Why would any woman in her right mind makes you take her out for weeks And months and then just want a casual relationship? Where is the logic in that? Why would you even want to waste a lot of time and risk emotional involvement when the end goal is sex alone? It's simple logic and then men complain that women aren't logical lol Look, most women you meet have had casual encounters, have even slept with others on first dates. They all realize that they will be judged for it, unfairly so and so they will lie, to make mens ego happy. Trust me on this one. A lot of them will end up in happy relationships, with even more awareness than their supposedly innocent peers. And while around 30s and 40s the formerly good girl realizes she missed out on life and ruins what she has to experience a new life, the other woman at least knows what she has is worth it and shes had a life to back it up. Heck there are tons of married couples who slept together on first date, how do you explain that? you are making a quick and void judgment. I stand by my point that what you say comes from hypocricy, insecurity and entitlement. And I do not believe someone who doesn't understand women and make judgments like that can claim "loving" women.
MrCastle Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Oh boy, you said one thing that just makes me laugh and simply shows how men actually love playing little games even though they say they don't. Why would any woman in her right mind makes you take her out for weeks And months and then just want a casual relationship? Where is the logic in that? Why would you even want to waste a lot of time and risk emotional involvement when the end goal is sex alone? It's simple logic and then men complain that women aren't logical lol[/Quote] Maybe societal pressures? I don't know. All I know is the bulk of my casual relationships have escalated. A date here, a kiss there, a few more dates, a little more physical, and then the "talk" comes, where we decide where we want this to go. One of us makes the suggestion to not complicate things and just sort of have some fun, and the other agrees, or decides they want more, and the relationship is officially over. Look, most women you meet have had casual encounters, have even slept with others on first dates. They all realize that they will be judged for it, unfairly so and so they will lie, to make mens ego happy. Trust me on this one. A lot of them will end up in happy relationships, with even more awareness than their supposedly innocent peers. And while around 30s and 40s the formerly good girl realizes she missed out on life and ruins what she has to experience a new life, the other woman at least knows what she has is worth it and shes had a life to back it up. Heck there are tons of married couples who slept together on first date, how do you explain that? you are making a quick and void judgment. I stand by my point that what you say comes from hypocricy, insecurity and entitlement. And I do not believe someone who doesn't understand women and make judgments like that can claim "loving" women. I know how to play the game. I know what'll get me the most amount of likes. I know I would have been praised had I come in here, and just came in and just said "let women be who they are!" I know what you want to hear, but I am not one of those men so desperate for female attention and acceptance that I'm going to say anything I can to please the fairer sex. This forum serves as a place for legitimate, open discussions about relationships and dating. I think it's awesome that we have so many different people, from different places, at different ages and stages of their lives, chiming in with their experiences. In the short time I've been here, I've had some great conversations, sometimes with people I genuinely disagreed with, and have even learned a thing or two. Questioning my security level, calling me unattractive, or uncharming, or whatever it was you said, behind my back, does not further add to the discussion. It's uncool. Repeating it here again, now face to face (better at least) is still stalling the discussion. You're not adding anything of substance or giving me anything to work with. We can disagree Mes, as I've tried to do here, respectfully, without taking your bait. We are different people with differing opinions, different sexes at different stages of our life, and the most we can hope to do on here is make our voice heard, create a fluid, coherent discussion, and maybe open some eyes. Your personal disgust of me is somewhat of a letdown, as I have had heated discussions with other members on this forum and still view them the same way I do as people who agree with me. We don't have to get ugly, use character attacks to further push our opinion. I disagree fundamentally with your stance on this casual sex thing. And that's okay. I'm not going to call you names or question your character because of it. We can disagree and that's fine. That's what this place is for. I absolutely adore women. Admittedly I have no way to actually prove that to you, but even if I did, I don't think I'd waste my time seeing as how we are strangers who will never meet, and have no reason to prove anything to you anyway. I know at the end of the day how much I care about women. I remember being that nice guy, writing poems for women, only to have them date the guy who cheated on her multiple times. You never met me pre-success, you've only seen me post-success, where my views have changed and my eyes have been opened. You can continue to think I'm some arrogant, hypocritical pig who sees women as beneath him, but I know, and some women on here can vouch, that I am a stand up guy and someone who wants nothing more than to find a woman worthy of my love. I feel like this conversation between has reached it's end, because there is nothing more I feel I can contribute to our discussion without sounding redundant.
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 Some rambles and updates to offset..... Going for coffee with a new girl tomorrow. (Or Green Tea in my case, I'm not a coffee man). Preliminary but there won't be any 1st date shenanigans tomorrow, at least I hope not because the Arsenal game is on and I don't want to miss it . I wasn't sure if this one would go ahead, she's a busy girl and it was meant to be Friday but she postponed. She just called to say she's on for lunch tomorrow. She has a sexy voice but seems reserved so I'm a little excited. Like I say, sometimes the waiting is sexier - not that I'm complaining with the velocity of the sex I've been having . I am glad I made this thread, because I'm more confident that I can make the right choices going ahead and be open to love rather than forcing it or closing up and sticking with FWB arrangements at love's expense. TO address a couple of the posts above......I don't think MrCastle dislikes women at all, I rather think that the conditioned response to a woman's promiscuity is typical of most men whether they love women or not. It is the idea that you "can't turn a ho into a housewife". Men who do end up in LTRs with these women are equally ridiculed too. I couldn't imagine if I was to actually seriously date girl #1 - my own brothers would be disgusted with me. It would be a shame for her trying to have an LTR with a past like that - if she wanted one. Maybe she will with somebody at some point - it won't be me though. Girl #2 I could get away with because nobody suspects that she's a freak and allegedly hasn't had a great deal of partners in comparison with #1 despite her apparent rush for the bedroom at the 1st opportunity (she's 22, been with 10 guys - girl #1 is 20, lost count ). I remember speaking to a male escort who sold me one of his programs on sexual mastery (good program) and he explained that men provide the platform for women to explore their sexuality and it's up to the man to allow her to feel safe sexually and not to judge her. I took that on board and that's how I've approached sex with women so far. In a sense, I started with an extreme case and it has really worked as I've been lauded by both girls who still disbelieve that I was a virgin a few months ago. I don't even think I've been truly good yet, I'm still a baby . 1
Emilia Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 I remember speaking to a male escort who sold me one of his programs on sexual mastery (good program) and he explained that men provide the platform for women to explore their sexuality and it's up to the man to allow her to feel safe sexually and not to judge her. I took that on board and that's how I've approached sex with women so far. In a sense, I started with an extreme case and it has really worked as I've been lauded by both girls who still disbelieve that I was a virgin a few months ago. I don't even think I've been truly good yet, I'm still a baby . Exactly. Put in a very simple way: I had bad sex with men who were closed minded in bed. I don't mean anyone needs to be super freaky at all, just relaxed and allowing the other person to express themselves. 1
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Posted November 23, 2012 Exactly. Put in a very simple way: I had bad sex with men who were closed minded in bed. I don't mean anyone needs to be super freaky at all, just relaxed and allowing the other person to express themselves. Agreed. It also allowed me to open up and express my own sexuality as a complement. I do think that MrCastle was a little unfairly targeted because I don't think he was being malicious. A bit like Kaylan in the virgin thread got a bit of unnecessary heat for some of his comments but they weren't in bad taste. I understand that the lack of ambiguity in his comments regarding female promiscuity were in haste and the prompted reaction from the ladies here and I do conversely understand where the guys are coming from. I just prefer not to be judgmental towards highly sexual women in that regard, even if I wouldn't consider a particular promiscuous girl for an LTR myself, it won't usually be for her sexual behaviors, but for any other sinister reasons behind it rather than the sex itself.
EasyHeart Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 "Promiscuous" is a subjective term; one man's slut is another man's prude. I've never understood the desire some people have to label and judge other people. I couldn't care less how many partners a woman had in the past; I care a LOT about how many she has in the present. When I was your age, the thought of a 'relationship' never crossed my mind, unless it came up in the context of "Things I Want to Avoid". Your 20s are the perfect time to sow your wild oats because you're old enough to (hopefully) not do anything really stupid, but young enough to not really be thinking about a family. Have fun. And be sure to give us voyeur all the details. . . . 1
lino Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 I had a fwb before the relationship I'm in now. I liked it and it served its purpose. If you want to do it, go for it
Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 Don't get offended when I say this. It's not you, it's them. These are chicks that were ready to sleep with you the first time meeting you. There is a reason they're online looking for NSA sex. They themselves are not relationship material. Surely you don't want to wife up a girl that lets you f*** her day one. You can't have both. You can't fool around with these kind of women and expect something to materialize. You can enjoy the fun you're having and accept it for what it is, while looking for something more serious with a different type of woman. More than likely someone you meet in real life and not through a dating site. And someone who will make you go more than one date before letting you sleep with them. I am right there with you in terms of living at home and not being where I'd like to be in my career as of right now, so that very much is partly the reason why I'm avoiding LTRs, but I also enjoy living the life I do, the same one you're living right now, and am content with being single. I wouldn't expect these short flings I'm having to lead to anything. Not because of who I am, but because of who they are. I am not trying to start trouble with you Mr.C but this is why girls sleep right around with guys that really turn them on and then make more serious guys wait. Becaues if they don't, they get judged for sex. Don't assume that just because a girl makes you wait and jump through more hoops that she hasn't had her share of casual sex with other men. I also don't get why you think that you are relationship material despite having casual sex but women that have casual sex aren't relationship material.
dasein Posted November 24, 2012 Posted November 24, 2012 I also don't get why you think that you are relationship material despite having casual sex but women that have casual sex aren't relationship material. Thread you must read. Double standard is not. LS Yoda I am.
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 24, 2012 Author Posted November 24, 2012 "Promiscuous" is a subjective term; one man's slut is another man's prude. I've never understood the desire some people have to label and judge other people. I couldn't care less how many partners a woman had in the past; I care a LOT about how many she has in the present. When I was your age, the thought of a 'relationship' never crossed my mind, unless it came up in the context of "Things I Want to Avoid". Your 20s are the perfect time to sow your wild oats because you're old enough to (hopefully) not do anything really stupid, but young enough to not really be thinking about a family. Have fun. And be sure to give us voyeur all the details. . . . I am having fun . The one thing I'm noticing is how easily girls are starting to talk dirty without me even initiating it. All it takes is one double entendre, sometimes by accident and they take it up real quick if they like you. I first experienced that in 08. I told a girl (was an old crush) that if we had sex with each other it would be interesting. She took up the slack completely from there. Ever since then, girls seem to talk sex with me fairly quickly without much prompting. I don't know how I get them to do that..... 1
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 24, 2012 Author Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Update: on the bus coming from date - went amazingly well, talked non-stop, walked together, ended with long kiss . Pleased. Says she's not looking for forever but not into fwb either. A happier medium? Possibly. Got another date with her next saturday. And what was even more awesome about her? She wanted to get home in time to watch the arsenal match . Edited November 24, 2012 by ThaWholigan 1
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