Boyfriend does not believe he is not in love with me.

[ScienceGal]

What kind of counseling doesn't deal with the major issues in life (i.e. your relationship)? Frankly, you're a mess and all aspects of that should be discussed in therapy. If you just started, it will take time, but if you've been going for a while it might be time to try someone new.

[Leigh 87]

Believe Andrew and not some faceless Ninja here on LS.

 

I have read most of your threads but have not posted. I think you are allowing someone to put doubt in your head when in reality Andrew DOES love you. I think that you have doubts that someone can truly love you, so you see this as validation of your inner self-doubt.

 

IMO Andrew loves you and is in love with you. The hooker idea was yours if I remember correctly. He (being inexperienced) felt that he needed to make you happy.

 

Please enjoy life with Andrew and quit believing faceless posters here who may actually have an agenda...such as seeing you break up for some twisted thrill.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I am going to enjoy my life with him for now, I guess my thread is just about how I am going to take each day at a time.

 

I am happy every day with Andrew. And you know, even if he is NOT in love with me, he does not know any better, and I am happy enough to continue with THIS level of love...

 

I am unsure of wheather that poster was correct or not.. He was so compelling with his view, he has seen a lot and felt it himself before.

 

I had the threesomes WITH Andrew present. A lot of men say that when they are in love with a girl, they cannot fathom being sexual with another women.

Andrew sounds inbetween on this matter; he cannot just hook up with a girl, he is unable to do it... yet, when it comes to treating a women like a human sex toy, aka a hooker, he is able to (whilst with me)

 

So there are boundaries as to what Andrew can do.

 

For now, I am just staying put, enjoying my days very much with him, without the need for a future should it not be right for us.

 

I know I will be okay regardless of the outcome.

[Million.to.1]

He honestly must be "in love" with you...... or he would of dumped your crazy insecure ass ages ago.

 

 

You are up and down like a bloody Yo-Yo leigh. It must be exhausting.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Million.to.1

[Els]

....Leigh, are you really letting the opinion of ONE anonymous poster dictate your beliefs over whether your BOYFRIEND loves you or not?!?!? I might be a tad old-fashioned here, but I don't think it's the greatest idea for you to share every single intimate detail about your relationship with your boyfriend with a male poster in private... and not only that, but it's a HORRIBLE idea for you to take his word over your boyfriend's. It shows that you trust this man more than you trust your boyfriend. To me, that borders on emotional infidelity.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Elswyth

[movingon12]

Honestly I do think you're thinking about this way too much.

 

If you're so happy with your relationship with him, why are you on here analysing it to death? Either accept it for what it is or break up with him, but I can't see how this is helping you.

[JamesM]

I am happy every day with Andrew. And you know, even if he is NOT in love with me, he does not know any better, and I am happy enough to continue with THIS level of love...

 

I am unsure of wheather that poster was correct or not.. He was so compelling with his view, he has seen a lot and felt it himself before.

 

I had the threesomes WITH Andrew present. A lot of men say that when they are in love with a girl, they cannot fathom being sexual with another women.

 

If Andrew doesn't know better, then he is less intelligent than I give him credit for. Fact is...he DOES know better and has stuck it out with you despite your uncertainties and ups and downs. Any guy who does that is in love and understand commitment.

 

Please go up to him and thank him profusely for loving you for who you are and despite your weaknesses and flaws. Looking at your picture, I see a beautiful and pleasant woman. Let that woman shine through and enjoy life.

 

As for threesomes, as a guy, I cannot imagine MY wife wanting one, but as Elswyth said, it IS a fantasy of most guys...myself included. This definitely does not have a bearing on the love I have for my wife. And any guy who says he cannot fathom being sexual with another woman while with someone never fantasizes or looks at porn. I find that absurd. Maybe the actual physical act seems far fetched, but in reality if the wife suggested if and gave her blessing, many more than will admit it would jump at the chance.

 

This Ninja who is so compelling with his view does NOT have you best interest at heart. He certainly is not concerned about Andrew. And as was said, quit taking the opinion of Ninja over the word of Andrew.

 

Andrew is long suffering and patient. Love him for who he is and thank him every day for loving you.

[KatZee]

Yeah, these threads are so confusing to me with the train of thought that's it's exhausting.

 

I don't believe Andrew doesn't think that he knows he's in love with me, but he loves me but is not in love with me and there's a hooker and I don't think he thinks he can love me enough, but i'm happy for right now and I'm not going to leave him right now but Andrew doesn't believe that I think that he doesn't love me because....

 

My mind actually imploded in on itself trying to read these threads.

 

Who cares if this guy you've been talking to was "compelling" you have no idea who he is in real life, you have no idea if he's even speaking truth to you. Do you know how many sick individuals are out there online preying on people JUST like yourself. Who are insecure, impressionable, obviously a bit wrong in the head?

 

This would be a huge game to them to just watch the s.hitshow that would ensue.

 

I don't believe that a guy in love isn't capable of having sex with someone else. That's the difference between men and women. Women associate sex with love. Men DO NOT. They are perfectly capable of being in love, and then having sex with someone else. Sex for men on a primal level is just that. Sex. Pleasure. It's not associated with emotion or love. They can separate the two.

 

I do agree Andrew must love you if he's STILL with you knowing that this is how you act... unless you put on a major show and keep all of this hidden from him.

 

Also, why are you NOT discussing your relationship with your therapist? That is one of the areas you would benefit GREATLY from counseling. One of my friends did the same thing, she was in therapy but for her reasons (shame, embarrassment) she never discussed her relationship. And because of this she wound up staying in an abusive relationship because she didn't have that outside perspective.

 

If you're in therapy, get your money's worth. If you want to just sit and bulls.hit about a job, or going to school, go talk to a friend. You don't need a therapist for that.

[Leigh 87]

This is no drama at all, guys.. I have not told Andrew about this, besides, he already KNOW'S how I feel about things.

 

And yes Milliontoone, I also think he must love me to have put up with me.

 

I was also anorexic and socially retarted de to my social isolation, and had his friends of 10 years tell him to pick them OR ME. He NEVEr would have anticipated that he would pick ME: in fact, he TOLD ME before I met his mates that he " would probably not be able to continue with me, f he best mates hated me"

 

I have had fits of anger and rage due to my mental condition, NO GUY would have put up with it unless he was EXTREMELY attached, and normally in love with a girl!

 

Andrew knows he has options with women, and had no reason to stay with me out of fear of being lonley, that is for sure.

 

Another point that needs to be addressed is: I am not THAT insecure; I would not put up with a guy who was not into me, because I know I can get quality guys to want me.

I Honestly believe I deserve a great guy, and would have no problems ditching guys who fell short; guys who do not adore me need not apply with me. I would rather be single, happily!

However insecure I am, I would never settle for less than a guy who was crazy about me and prepared to show it often with plenty of love and respect.

 

Furthermore, I have told him SEVERAL times that I am not mentally ready for a relationship, and can he please just let me go, and that we can always get back together when my throught processes are not as disrupted my mental issues.

 

I have told him this SEVERAL.....MANY times!

 

I would love to be with him for a long time, but right now I want to protect him and ANY guy from my deviant ways and the uneecessary drama my issues can cause!

He HAD NONE OF IT: the fact we can just go see one another, made it

too hard for him to just... agree to cut contact with a girl he really loves.If not IN love, he CERTAINLY loves me a great deal.

 

Then there is the fact that his mother just died not too long ago as well, and I am a MAJOR source of comfort; he is his absolute self around me, more so than with his mates of 14 plus years, and he relies on me for a safe place to go.

 

I am a deep thinker about things, and the poster seriously resonated with me with what he was saying! EVERYONE ELSE on this board agrees with his advice on the forums! (ninjainpyjamas he is!)

Ninja told me that if a guy is truly in love, IN love, then having a threesome and allowing his "love" to watch him have sex with ANOTHER women, is not possible; that doing that is akin to a mother watching her child witness horrendus acts.

Basically, ninja said it was simply not possible for a man in love to engage in any sort of threesome with a women he loves; that a man in love cannot EVER engage in sex with another women in the way ANdrew did with me.

 

Ironically, at the time, I thought the threesome brought us closer! I thought it was really cool how I did not care, because I just knew he only had eyes for me, and this was him fullfilling his boyhood fantasy that NONE of his friends " got to live out" due to their partners not being down with it.

CARRIE T in fact, was the one who stopped me going through with more threesomes or hookers on his part. As I honestly did not feel phased or jealous.

She know's more than me about such issues, so it would have been foolish to not follow her advice...

I only felt bad AFTER people told me that it was not normal what I did, and that he should be totally satisfied with JUST ME in a stricty monogomus relationship!

[Leigh 87]

Katzee First of all, I am not bull****tting about a job or studying.. They are all true. I have no doubt I will finish my degree this time, I have the need to secure a professional job before I turn 30 and feel very excited about studying again (especially seeing as it is a degree I can handle and wont suffer over)

 

Secondly, Andrew has seen me at my very worst. REcovering from anorexia and social isolation has not been pretty. It left me confused and crying when I reached a mere 118 lbs! CRYING because I could not believe I had gained weight from my "comfortable" 114 lbs.

 

Not only has he dealt with my fits of screaming rage, but he has seen me gain from 110 lbs to 135 lbs! He prefers thin chicks that are tanned with small noses; yet I am no longer that thin, I am white and pasty (unelss I use fake tan which I normally do now) and have a broken stupid nose.

 

LOL!!!!!

 

I am a very nice person though, I am funny and make him laugh, and I have a lot of GOOD ATTRIBUTES to compensate for my insanity.

What's more: I make him very happy, despite the fact I have put him through such hell initially.

I am relatively stable now in person; we are smooth sailing, the only issue we have to face is my anger issues, whereby I yell at times instead of just talking thigns through.

 

To have overcome what we have had to deal with in our relationship is ...... pretty rare and remarkable! It is REALLY amazing that we ended up happy together, given the severity of our issues (that were due to my mental issues)

 

We never really argue now and are completely fine, the only thing i worry about is what that poster has said, which I am swiftly dispelling....

[Leigh 87]

Hahahahhahaaaa no I am sorry to say I DO NOT put on a show for him:o:lmao:

 

He has seen me at my absolute worst, and still adores me. Like most men in long term R;s, he has cleaned off the vomit off of me after I have been drunk, kicked out of clubs, and on the ground LOL and stayed with me after I acted like an idiot in front of his friends (due to me never having been drunk before really, and my social ineptness)

 

I seriously think there must be something weird about him for him to have stayed with me?????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

I mean, I am not all THAT attractive! I have a broken nose that is crooked and not small and feminine like the most attractive women have!

 

He was too invested in helping me overcome my issues to leave me. despite me literally reminding him he was crazy for staying with me.

 

SO yeah: he planned on travelling the world again, then he met me and...... ended up trying to help out a raging lunatic instead. LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose the least I can do is tell him how much I appreciate him daily (which I DO! Every day!) and just shut up and be happy with him.

[KatZee]

Basically, ninja said it was simply not possible for a man in love to engage in any sort of threesome with a women he loves; that a man in love cannot EVER engage in sex with another women in the way ANdrew did with me.

 

Whether everyone agrees with this guy is irrelevant. I don't agree with this at all. It's not as if Andrew pressed this on you, YOU were the one who went to him and said, Lets have hookers. In his mind, the situation that was going on was perfectly fine for you.

 

People are turned on by different things. If "love" was the same for everyone, everyone would just have sex with one person for the rest of their life in missionary style and nothing would ever change.

 

Married people in very loving, open, honest, and respectful relationships engage in orgies! Or sex parties! They show up places and have sex with other people while their partner watches.

 

It all comes down to what turns you on, and what you and your partner enjoy doing! If you said to Andrew "What turns me on the most is seeing you have sex with another woman and watching you pleasure her" he would say, "ill do anything that makes you happiest" and that would result in him having sex with someone else.

 

After you told Andrew you weren't OK with the hookers was when he stopped and it hasn't happened since. So what about this situation shows he doesn't love you?

[Leigh 87]

He enjoyed the threesomes, but I think it was also largely the novelty! You know, being able to tell his friends "OMG my girlfriend let us have THREESOMES OMG yay for me"

 

After the threesome, he felt much closer to me; he was... really relieved that I could still feel his love. He was profoundly relieved it worked out, and did not hurt me. There was a huge sense of relief that he could explore his fantisies, with a women who understood his love was with me only.

I too, felt a huge sense of closness to him after the deed. I felt first hand that he had SUCH a great time him being happy made me really, really happy!

 

He did not do it thinking he would hurt me, and it did not hurt me at all at first, not until OTHER PEOPLE gave me their imput.

I thought: wow, all these other men say that the only women they can be intimate with, is the women they are into/ in love with.

 

I just saw it as him living out his long held fantasies, and I had always wanted to have a threesome, as "something I want to try once"

I just thought we were in our 20s and should explore our fantasies once, and simply discard them if they did not interest us.

 

 

I never once questioned his capacity to be IN love before Ninja.

 

Then I reasoned that Andrew was immature in regards to relationships, and must not KNOW what true love is, seeing as he has only been seriously into TWO women.

[Leigh 87]

And yes, I had a fettish for watching him have sex with other women; although I cannot stomach the thought of him giving them oral or pleasing them in in way besides straight sex.

 

This worked out well, as Andrew really only enjoys oral on girls he is seriously into, OR super models that compell him to be severely horny.

 

I won't, however, have any more threesomes again anytime soon or at all, seeing as Carrie T who DOES knwo what she is talking about, has severely warned me against them!

 

It is a shame: I was REALLY, seriously looking forward to attending a sex party or two in our time, as I am also very voyeristic and would have SO loved to watch other people have sex, and for them to watch us!

 

At sex parties anything goes, it would have been so fun to explore my voyerism! Andrew would 100% not get with any women or even suggest it unless I was comfrotable with then notion.

 

One thing I know about Andrew, is that he would simply not do anything I was not comfortable with.

[movingon12]

I am so confused right now. I literally have no idea what it is you're complaining about....Now you're annoyed that you *can't* have a threesome? What??

 

My brain hurts.

Edited November 21, 2012 by movingon12

[JamesM]

And yes, I had a fettish for watching him have sex with other women; although I cannot stomach the thought of him giving them oral or pleasing them in in way besides straight sex.

 

This is interesting. I am completely different. I find that pleasing a woman orally is comparable to receiving oral sex. Intercourse is personal and more intimate. I could easily give oral to a woman but would find intercourse "cheating" even if my wife were there.

 

It is a shame: I was REALLY, seriously looking forward to attending a sex party or two in our time, as I am also very voyeristic and would have SO loved to watch other people have sex, and for them to watch us!

 

I think a sex party with the two of you having sex is different than watching Andrew having sex with someone.

 

At sex parties anything goes, it would have been so fun to explore my voyerism! Andrew would 100% not get with any women or even suggest it unless I was comfrotable with then notion.

 

I think this is different than you buying him hookers. I wonder if you could actually have sex with another guy though...

[AlexDP]

And yes, I had a fettish for watching him have sex with other women; although I cannot stomach the thought of him giving them oral or pleasing them in in way besides straight sex.

 

This worked out well, as Andrew really only enjoys oral on girls he is seriously into, OR super models that compell him to be severely horny.

 

I won't, however, have any more threesomes again anytime soon or at all, seeing as Carrie T who DOES knwo what she is talking about, has severely warned me against them!

 

It is a shame: I was REALLY, seriously looking forward to attending a sex party or two in our time, as I am also very voyeristic and would have SO loved to watch other people have sex, and for them to watch us!

 

At sex parties anything goes, it would have been so fun to explore my voyerism! Andrew would 100% not get with any women or even suggest it unless I was comfrotable with then notion.

 

One thing I know about Andrew, is that he would simply not do anything I was not comfortable with.

 

So rather than do what you like, you choose to do what other posters say?

[mammasita]

So, you gave him a big ass double thumbs up to hook up with hookers and now you dont believe he is in love with you because he wants to continue hooking up with hookers?

 

IMO, there are some other fundamental issues aside from whether or not he is in love with you.

 

BUT every situation is different and you should do what works for YOU and not what your friends or a message board think is right or normal.

Edited November 21, 2012 by mammasita

[Els]

She know's more than me about such issues, so it would have been foolish to not follow her advice...

I only felt bad AFTER people told me that it was not normal what I did, and that he should be totally satisfied with JUST ME in a stricty monogomus relationship!

 

It is not 'normal' but that doesn't mean he loves you less for indulging YOUR request! What you're saying would be like me asking my bf for a steamy kinky night of spanking, and then saying, "OMG, if he loved me, he wouldn't have listened to my request to hit me!" I mean... honestly, it makes zero sense!

 

You basically asked your bf to indulge a fetish of yours, and now you believe that he isn't in love with you despite him saying and showing that he is because he indulged your fetish. AND all of this is because of what a random internet poster said.

 

Leigh, honestly!!!

[pteromom]

Leigh... love does not have ONE definition. Just because the poster you have been communicating with could not have sex with a hooker if he was in love, doesn't mean that is true for everyone.

 

Our attitudes about sex and love are formed through childhood and the teen years and our early sexual experiences. Since Andrew's first sexual experiences were with hookers, and he had no emotion involved, he is able to have sex without emotion. Just because that isn't true for the poster you've been talking to doesn't mean that Andrew doesn't love you.

 

But that aside - why this need to define love? Why is it so important to ensure that Andrew is IN LOVE with you, by your definition?

 

Does the relationship meet your needs? Are you happy with him? Is he happy with you? Do you believe you meet his needs?

 

If so, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, or whether your relationship follows someone else's definition of LOVE.

 

What is important isn't what some poster on LS thinks. Especially since very very few of us are in happy fulfilling relationships, and most of us are majorly effed-up in some way.

 

What is important is you and him. You must believe him and trust him with what he says about his feelings. Just be vulnerable and open and give him love, and receive the love he gives to you.

 

Is it possible that at some point in the future, your relationship might end? Of course it is, whether that's due to one of you meeting someone else, a huge argument, or something else. But that doesn't mean you live in FEAR of an end. It means you put your all into it, and every day you have him, you give him your love and receive his love.

 

There is no use in worrying about future what-ifs. It's a waste of time.

[KatZee]

Katzee First of all, I am not bull****tting about a job or studying.. They are all true.

 

That's not what I meant. It's a figure of speech. I didn't mean you're bulls.hitting about getting a job or going to school... I mean that if you're sitting in a therapists office just "bulls.hitting" ie: shooting the s.hit, casually talking on a friend level... then that's a waste of time and money.

 

You don't need to shoot the s.hit with a therapist as to when you plan on going to school or what sort of job you should get--- a guidance counselor in a college could do the same thing for you for free.

[Leigh 87]

Oh, Andrew does not want to continue with hookers. He came to his own conclusion that the meaningless sex was not fulfilling or enjoyable enough to do.

 

And I would absolutely NOT be able to be with another man! I adore Andrew, absolutely, and cannot even THINK about being with other men.

 

In his own way, Andrew acts just as adoring of me; the only difference between us, is that he is able to have meaningless sex with hookers, where as I am not able to have sex in ANY capacity with ANY other man.

 

Andrew was completely happy about giving the hooker thing up.

 

I instilled it because I wanted to try a threesome, but just as muchbecause I did not believe Andrew was a man who was ready to comprehend settling down with one women sexually for many years.

 

I wanted him to come to the conclusion of monogomy slowly; he was a party boy who wanted to travel the world alone, and then he met me; he was in NO mindset to settle down..

 

Hence I thought that since I wanted to try a threesome with someone, that it would work for both of us: me because a threesome was on my bucket list, and him because he I frankly thought it was best for him to have one last time or two with other women.

[Leigh 87]

Despite what happened, I never got the feeling that Andrew "needed" the hookers... I feel very secure in the knowledge that he would have been very happy without the threesomes.

 

What we did was a huge bonus to him, as they were his long held fantasies, but I know he would have also been extremely happy with me WITHOUT the hookers and threesomes.....

 

So I am not worried about him re offending with hookers, I do not feel the hookers were about him not being satisfied with me at all.

 

I never let the ignorant idiots get to me, you know, the people who think that ALL MEN who do what Andrew did ARE NOT at all intot heir women and do not care about them...

 

So I am above believing some people and their narrow minded views! I know SOME men are capable of having meaningless sex with others, while they care DEAPLY about their partner.....

 

I NEVER TELL any one this in real life, as they ALL assumed so far that Andrew must have only done such a taboo thing because he was not into me, and that he cared to little about me so as to be able to do it.....

 

It is ironic when people make such assumptions; honestly Andrew is far more loving than their partners are, from what I can see!

 

Andrew was extremely happy and thankfull that I let him just be himself and live out his fantasies. He waited years to fullfill them, I do not regret what I did at all.

 

I guess I have let that one posters opinion get to me, seeing as the way Andrew went about the whole thing did not leave me with any doubt that he was in love with me......

[2sunny]

Ae you living with him - rent free?

[Leigh 87]

Ae you living with him - rent free?

 

 

I live in a nice flat, or in his huge house with a lot of land (which is extremely lovely to live in)

 

We both live rent free in each others places that we inhibit. I am starting my degree again at age 26, so my parents wants to let me live here until I finish the degree. As long as I get a part time job and chip in for rent next year, which is when I am due to study.

 

I know it is terrible, but I have been overcoming from anorexia and social isolation for a while, coupled with abuse from a close family member and being long term unemployed.

 

So I have been living off of my parents and the government with not much going on for a while; chopping and changing courses I thought I would like, only to come back to the realisation that finishing my degree is what I am MOST driven and passionate about.

 

I thought there were better quick fixes to getting my degree, only to find the jobs (like a travel agent or child care worker) were extremely low paid, and not worth the time spent getting the qualification.

 

 

 

 

 

So that is a little about myself and how I have been a stupid idiot and wasted my parents money whilst I was screwed up and too lazy and weak to bette rmyself qiucly enough.

 

 

 

I got 93% in my college entrance score, so I have hope; you know, in at least finishing the degree I started and getting a proffessional, albiet not highly paid job.

[Leigh 87]

His father brought a house for him when he was 15, to set him up for life; he will wait many years until the house hs quintupled his original value, and then sell it and retire young.

 

I had no idea about all of this until a week or two after meeting him, and it has had NO BEARING over my decision to be with him:sick:

 

I would want to stick by Andrew through sickness or in health with him losing everything.

 

Additionally to owning a house, he also owns half of his dead mothers house.... So he has more money than my mother does from 50 years of hard work:sick:

 

You would never guess Andrew was rich for his age/work history, as he is not very adept at taking care of his skin with moisterizer or even shampoo half of the time, and is very..... blue collar in his approach to life, and in his vocabulary.

 

Not that I am a genius. But you know, he does not come across like he has money.

 

 

 

 

..... he has a low paid job right now and is working his way up to a high paying job, so he has literally NO CASH in pocket, and is about 17 - 20 thousand in dept.

 

 

 

*sigh* we will not be travelling overseas for at least another YEAR:(