When To Stop Dating?

[ThaWholigan]

Being beautiful and annoying is so much better, because at least you're nice to look at. right.

 

I don't think V. is ugly, but I can understand how she would feel that way, if her boyfriend no longer has any interest in having sex with her. People have made good points, but insulting her doesn't help either.

In as much as I agree with you Anela as I usually do, sadly OP insults and mocks herself far far more than anybody here does IMO. T-words notwithstanding.

Edited November 22, 2012 by ThaWholigan
typo

[Anela]

In as much as I agree with you Anela as I usually do, sadly OP insults and mocks herself far far more than anybody here does IMO. T-words notwithstanding.

 

She's only given more fuel to do just that, though. Whilst I can't say that I know exactly how she feels, I'm sure that I can come close, and I have been shamed all year, in various ways, by two people that I used to love very much. I have avoided making my own threads here, because I would only be presenting my side of the story, but also because I can't seem to accept support or tough love. Tough love will only drive me up the wall, because I feel insecure and am on shaky ground emotionally, even though I know I have every right to feel that way.

 

We aren't all equipped to deal with things well, right off the bat. For some, it happens in fits and starts, and eventually, there's a little traction for the good stuff - but it won't happen if people keep poking at her and telling her how awful she is for this and that, when she is already feeling so insecure. I understand what people are trying to get through to her, but I also have some understanding of what she's feeling - I'm assuming. I'm not having a good day, and just couldn't take another person telling her that she's annoying. So don't read, it's that simple.

[ThaWholigan]

She's only given more fuel to do just that, though. Whilst I can't say that I know exactly how she feels, I'm sure that I can come close, and I have been shamed all year, in various ways, by two people that I used to love very much. I have avoided making my own threads here, because I would only be presenting my side of the story, but also because I can't seem to accept support or tough love. Tough love will only drive me up the wall, because I feel insecure and am on shaky ground emotionally, even though I know I have every right to feel that way.

 

We aren't all equipped to deal with things well, right off the bat. For some, it happens in fits and starts, and eventually, there's a little traction for the good stuff - but it won't happen if people keep poking at her and telling her how awful she is for this and that, when she is already feeling so insecure. I understand what people are trying to get through to her, but I also have some understanding of what she's feeling - I'm assuming. I'm not having a good day, and just couldn't take another person telling her that she's annoying. So don't read, it's that simple.

 

I don't even think she's annoying - usually she has something of good note to say in most threads where she isn't talking about herself, she's only annoying when she denigrates herself and expects us to do the same and then comfort her immediately afterwards. It's like masochism.

 

I understand that not everybody can plow through their problems, but there are other ways to deal with them rather than collapsing under the weight of them and thinking of oneself as awful. That is the kicker for me really. She thinks she's awful, and we tell her she isn't, she vehemently stresses that she really is awful and hits out when we try to make her not see herself in such a negative light, then we of course continue to rail even harder and then she says "see, you guys think I'm awful and annoying" and then it just twists around to it being somehow our fault for contributing.

 

That really isn't fair, especially when we are trying our best to help her really, and it would be highly irresponsible of us to just placate her and indulge her self-hatred. That would be highly wrong in my opinion and I refuse to do it, I would rather put her on ignore and leave it at that. But we all just want her to be happier. I cannot wait to see a truly happy thread from V one day.

 

I do understand where you are coming from though - tough love can be very difficult to deal with, and I know this firsthand because it wasn't always easy for me to deal with either. At some point I was able to adjust and deal with it because I knew it wasn't to belittle me at it's core. I think that while I definitely sympathize and I truly try to be as comforting as I can in my approach, there is a way to filter the message that comes from the noise of "tough love".

 

EDIT: I think we should probably relent on the pile-on that occurs with certain posters, including V, and have a more comforting approach but it's difficult to sustain when the same problems continue to rear their head when they could be taken care of, even if it is thought that they cannot.

[volentia]

well it seems as if some of you have seen her face, and if she looks like rachel leigh cook then she is obviously stunning.

 

and if men arnt interested in you it really is because you flaunt too much self hatred. deal with those demons girl...

beauty alone does not a positive woman make.

[FitChick]

Interesting article on why some people cannot or will not get rid of negative emotions.

[verhrzn]

well it seems as if some of you have seen her face, and if she looks like rachel leigh cook then she is obviously stunning.

 

and if men arnt interested in you it really is because you flaunt too much self hatred. deal with those demons girl...

beauty alone does not a positive woman make.

 

No, the poster who thinks I look like that is just temporarily insane. (Maybe I make people insane. It's been suggested before.)

 

I have said it before, and I'll say it again until it finally gets through people's heads..... guys were mocking me, putting me down, and rejecting me BEFORE I turned to self-hatred.

 

In high school I thought I was ugly, but I also though it didn't matter. I'd look in the mirror, shrug, and go about my life convinced that "good people" would see through my looks. I dreamt of the day I'd go to college, where I'd be surrounded by thoughtful, sophisticated intellectuals.

 

Well I got to college, and almost immediately the people around me started insisting I change. They forced me into make-overs; in a lot of ways, college turned out to be even WORSE than high school. In high school I was just known as the "ugly teacher's pet." I didn't care about my looks, because people recognized me for my intelligence.

 

But in college, I was average. I was no longer the smartest, or even the 10th, smartest person in any room. So now I had nothing to make up for my bad looks.

 

It was college where I finally DID get some male attention, because 1) I started forcing myself to care about my looks and 2) I became very aggressive. As ugly as I think I am now, I am TEN TIMES better looking than I was in high school.

 

So I used to be EXACTLY what you guys are telling me to be now. I USED to not care at all about my looks and think that I was awesome.

 

And it got me NOTHING but grief. People constantly trying to force make-overs on me. Guys sneering at me and stuffing me into lockers. Girls using me as a cautionary tale to their friends and warning their guy friends off me.

 

I developed this self-hatred because of my experiences. Being optimistic, thinking I was awesome, not caring about my looks.... it failed me, hardcore.

 

PS: In case anyone doesn't buy the whole "I was REALLY ugly in high school," there a pic of me senior year. Does that look like Rachel Leigh Cook to you?

Edited November 22, 2012 by verhrzn

[mickleb]

You're a 5. There really is no need for the drama.

[mesmerized]

A serious question for OP, are you into BDSM?

[verhrzn]

A serious question for OP, are you into BDSM?

 

Not as hardcore as some, but more than others. Why?

[Els]

Ah, now I understand a little better. The issue that is exacerbating your self-esteem issues is that your bf isn't that interested in sex with you, V? I would strongly suggest talking about that issue in and of itself (possibly in another thread, and with as many details as you feel comfortable enough to provide). There are MANY reasons people aren't that interested in sex, and you can't let one man's sex drive determine your entire self-worth and convince you that you're too ugly to date and should stop.

 

If you don't feel like talking about it here, feel free to PM me if you wish. FWIW, an ex of mine was extremely uninterested in sex with me, to the point that he literally treated me like a sister. He took me out on dinner and dates, even paid, treated me very well, but as soon as it got to anything sexual, he totally shut down. Was mind-boggling. My sex life with my current long-term bf is good, though, and I would not be enjoying this if I had let my ex's disinterest affect me to the extent your bf's seems to be affecting you.

[volentia]

No, the poster who thinks I look like that is just temporarily insane. (Maybe I make people insane. It's been suggested before.)

 

I have said it before, and I'll say it again until it finally gets through people's heads..... guys were mocking me, putting me down, and rejecting me BEFORE I turned to self-hatred.

 

In high school I thought I was ugly, but I also though it didn't matter. I'd look in the mirror, shrug, and go about my life convinced that "good people" would see through my looks. I dreamt of the day I'd go to college, where I'd be surrounded by thoughtful, sophisticated intellectuals.

 

Well I got to college, and almost immediately the people around me started insisting I change. They forced me into make-overs; in a lot of ways, college turned out to be even WORSE than high school. In high school I was just known as the "ugly teacher's pet." I didn't care about my looks, because people recognized me for my intelligence.

 

But in college, I was average. I was no longer the smartest, or even the 10th, smartest person in any room. So now I had nothing to make up for my bad looks.

 

It was college where I finally DID get some male attention, because 1) I started forcing myself to care about my looks and 2) I became very aggressive. As ugly as I think I am now, I am TEN TIMES better looking than I was in high school.

 

So I used to be EXACTLY what you guys are telling me to be now. I USED to not care at all about my looks and think that I was awesome.

 

And it got me NOTHING but grief. People constantly trying to force make-overs on me. Guys sneering at me and stuffing me into lockers. Girls using me as a cautionary tale to their friends and warning their guy friends off me.

 

I developed this self-hatred because of my experiences. Being optimistic, thinking I was awesome, not caring about my looks.... it failed me, hardcore.

 

PS: In case anyone doesn't buy the whole "I was REALLY ugly in high school," there a pic of me senior year. Does that look like Rachel Leigh Cook to you?

 

not bad looking at all. yet you attract other peoples anger....because you vibrate it...subtley, passively.

what makes you mad?

[Under The Radar]

No, the poster who thinks I look like that is just temporarily insane. (Maybe I make people insane. It's been suggested before.)

 

I have said it before, and I'll say it again until it finally gets through people's heads..... guys were mocking me, putting me down, and rejecting me BEFORE I turned to self-hatred.

 

In high school I thought I was ugly, but I also though it didn't matter. I'd look in the mirror, shrug, and go about my life convinced that "good people" would see through my looks. I dreamt of the day I'd go to college, where I'd be surrounded by thoughtful, sophisticated intellectuals.

 

Well I got to college, and almost immediately the people around me started insisting I change. They forced me into make-overs; in a lot of ways, college turned out to be even WORSE than high school. In high school I was just known as the "ugly teacher's pet." I didn't care about my looks, because people recognized me for my intelligence.

 

But in college, I was average. I was no longer the smartest, or even the 10th, smartest person in any room. So now I had nothing to make up for my bad looks.

 

It was college where I finally DID get some male attention, because 1) I started forcing myself to care about my looks and 2) I became very aggressive. As ugly as I think I am now, I am TEN TIMES better looking than I was in high school.

 

So I used to be EXACTLY what you guys are telling me to be now. I USED to not care at all about my looks and think that I was awesome.

 

And it got me NOTHING but grief. People constantly trying to force make-overs on me. Guys sneering at me and stuffing me into lockers. Girls using me as a cautionary tale to their friends and warning their guy friends off me.

 

I developed this self-hatred because of my experiences. Being optimistic, thinking I was awesome, not caring about my looks.... it failed me, hardcore.

 

PS: In case anyone doesn't buy the whole "I was REALLY ugly in high school," there a pic of me senior year. Does that look like Rachel Leigh Cook to you?

 

 

Well, I am a sucker for the Insanity Plea .

 

OP, the picture you linked in this thread is from 10 years ago. More current pictures of you are, indeed, much more flattering. Even then, I wouldn't say your high school picture is "ugly".

 

It is clear to me from other, more current pictures, that you have spent time improving your physical appearance. In other words, you have spent time in the gym, have a more complimentary haircut, reduced weight/trimmer figure, sexier clothes, and are smiling (with nice teeth).

 

Like many of us, you have improved your attractiveness over time. Looking at more recent images of you I thought you were cute. I also thought many of my good looking friends would find you physically appealing.

 

If you want to continue lamenting your "Poor Genetics" then that's, of course, your right. Nevertheless, I can say that objectively you are not ugly.

 

I think, at this point, I should respectively vacate your thread so as not to upset you any further. I sincerely hope you come to love yourself in the future. I can see attractive qualities you possess just from reading your comments; intelligence and wit quickly come to mind .

 

BTW, you never answered my question about passion. What are you passionate about? Focusing on this will be a key ingredient to finding and maintaining happiness.

 

Good luck and I look forward to seeing you around on the forum.

[Anela]

 

PS: In case anyone doesn't buy the whole "I was REALLY ugly in high school," there a pic of me senior year. Does that look like Rachel Leigh Cook to you?

 

I actually do see a resemblance, around the eyes, forehead and nose.

 

I can relate to some of what you wrote in the rest of the post, but I won't go into that.

[Anela]

V, I'm reading Daring Greatly, by the same woman I mentioned to you before (Brene Brown). I escaped into the woods for a couple of hours, with the book and a torch, because I couldn't stand being in this house any longer - the break was good. I was reading it and giggling over some of the things she wrote about, but much of it was what we all encounter on these boards and everywhere, every single day of our lives.

 

I just think the book might interest you. I was going to buy a copy, but this is out of the library.

[mesmerized]

Not as hardcore as some, but more than others. Why?

 

I just guessed. You seem to get a weird joy out of humiliating and punishing yourself. BDSM kind of combines that with sexuality and I can just see you being into it.

[verhrzn]

I just guessed. You seem to get a weird joy out of humiliating and punishing yourself. BDSM kind of combines that with sexuality and I can just see you being into it.

 

I wouldn't say it's joy. I'd say it's a fierce need to rebel. I feel better when I feel I'm being honest. I don't see honesty as humiliating or as punishment; I see it as liberating.

 

The world constantly puts you in a double bind in which it says mean, nasty things about you... sends you constant messages that you're not valuable enough unless you're [this] or [that], and then turns around and demands you convince yourself and everyone around you that you're awesome and amazing.

 

It's like the world wants to beat you down, and then if you stay down, punish you because it can no longer beat up on you. It expects to beat you down, and then you get up and take some more abuse.

 

Ever since I was a kid, I noticed this blindness people have about themselves. It always seemed desperate to me, like everyone was putting a band-air on a gaping wound. I actually wrote a story about it when I was four... I dictated to my parents about how the neighbor lady was fat, and couldn't fit through some doors, but told everyone she was "curvy" and God made her beautiful. But then one day, I saw her in the garage crying.

 

I've never done well with subterfuge or that kind of mental/emotional dichotomy. I never wanted to play by society's dishonest rules... that they get to put you down, and then still expect you to be happy about it.

 

So I find a kind of freedom and rebellion in saying honest things about myself, even if they are painful, even if I'm supposed to NOT say them. Maybe especially if I'm not supposed to say them.

 

I would rather be honest about being ugly, than tell myself I'm beautiful when I'm really not. People EXPECT of me, DEMAND of me that I not be honest about myself. I'm never supposed to call myself average, I'm never supposed to call myself dumb or fat or ugly or any of those other "negative" things.... even if that's what everyone else thinks of me.

 

How twisted is that? This forum is a perfect example... people are constantly saying I'm annoying, I'm a drama queen, I'm a sociopath, I'm pathetic, on and on. And yet if I were to turn around and say those things about myself... those very same descriptive terms other people used for me... then somehow I have low self-esteem and I like "humiliation and punishment."

 

Why is low self-esteem to just be honest about how other people see me? About how I am? How can I possibly accept myself and my lot in life, if I can never face who and what exactly I am?

 

If someone is a monster, shouldn't they KNOW they are a monster? Why is it low self-esteem to say of themselves that they are a monster?

[xxoo]

I would rather be honest about being ugly, than tell myself I'm beautiful when I'm really not. People EXPECT of me, DEMAND of me that I not be honest about myself. I'm never supposed to call myself average, I'm never supposed to call myself dumb or fat or ugly or any of those other "negative" things.... even if that's what everyone else thinks of me.

 

Average would be reasonable.

 

Ugly is not. You simply are not ugly.

 

Do you understand that average is as far from ugly as it is from beautiful?

[Eternal Sunshine]

V - brutal honesty: I would give you 6/10

[verhrzn]

Average would be reasonable.

 

Ugly is not. You simply are not ugly.

 

Do you understand that average is as far from ugly as it is from beautiful?

 

If you claim that beauty is subjective, then I could reasonably call myself ugly. Average to you, ugly to me.

 

But that isn't really my point. My point is that I am merely repeating what I have heard. What other people have said about me. My own opinion of myself really doesn't matter much, because I do not live in a world full of Me's. What matters is how other people see me, and "ugly" is how other people have described me.

[xxoo]

If you claim that beauty is subjective, then I could reasonably call myself ugly. Average to you, ugly to me.

 

But that isn't really my point. My point is that I am merely repeating what I have heard. What other people have said about me. My own opinion of myself really doesn't matter much, because I do not live in a world full of Me's. What matters is how other people see me, and "ugly" is how other people have described me.

 

Look at what I quoted.

 

If you would say that you are average, you probably wouldn't get any argument.

 

The claim that people expect you to say you are beautiful, but that's not what people expect.

 

It would be ok to say negative things about yourself if they are reasonable, but you tend to skip right over reality and end up in the extreme negative. An example would be calling yourself fat when you are (were) still a normal, average weight. I'm not going to try to convince you that you are thin, because you aren't. But there are a range of average, normal, healthy weights between thin and fat.

 

I'll be brutally honest. It appears you have a need to stand out in some way, but you don't stand out in any way physical. You are simply an average girl, average appearance, average weight.

 

Failing that, you succeed in standing out as a negative person. Any attention is better than no attention.

Edited November 23, 2012 by xxoo

[verhrzn]

Look at what I quoted.

 

If you would say that you are average, you probably wouldn't get any argument.

 

The claim that people expect you to say you are beautiful, but that's not what people expect.

 

It would be ok to say negative things about yourself if they are reasonable, but you tend to skip right over reality and end up in the extreme negative. An example would be calling yourself fat when you are (were) still a normal, average weight. I'm not going to try to convince you that you are thin, because you aren't. But there are a range of average, normal, healthy weights between thin and fat.

 

But "extreme" and "matters of degrees" are opinions, according to you. By your standards, you think I'm of an average weight. But by the BMI and my doctor's notes, I am not. I am overweight (though not obese.) You won't see me claiming I am obese, but "fat" is a wide range. I don't see what is extreme about calling myself fat if I am, by objective measures, inside the overweight range.

 

Look, this is all just really semantics that keep circling back to the main point: If I were to claim I was average, it would make even LESS sense why guys have never been into me.

 

Guys were not into me even before I began the "negative" talk, as I explained in an earlier post. So if guys have never been into me, and have in fact vocally expressed how unattractive I am, why is it an extreme for me to claim I'm ugly?

 

No one will ever just answer this goddamn fundamental question: I was not always negative. I AM not always negative. I have shown my dating profile to several posters (ThaW, IAmAJerk) and they could detect NO negativity there.

 

And yet guys still have not been attracted to me.

 

So since you can't blame my "negativity" in all situations, and you all claim it's not my looks, then what the **** is it?

[verhrzn]

Jesus ****ing Tap Dancing Christ, again with the drama-queen comments. "You obviously have a need to stand out." Well no the **** kidding. Please, point me to someone who DOESN'T enjoy being an individual.

 

But more importantly, why the **** do you guys here on the forum keep demanding I have a "good" opinion of myself, when you are all constantly putting me down and calling me names?

 

Unless you claim "attention seeking" is somehow a positive spin.

 

Why do YOU guys get to put me down, but when I do it, it's so awful and terrible and thus I deserve even MORE verbal punishment?

[SmileFace]

Jesus ****ing Tap Dancing Christ, again with the drama-queen comments. "You obviously have a need to stand out." Well no the **** kidding. Please, point me to someone who DOESN'T enjoy being an individual.

 

But more importantly, why the **** do you guys here on the forum keep demanding I have a "good" opinion of myself, when you are all constantly putting me down and calling me names?

 

Unless you claim "attention seeking" is somehow a positive spin.

 

Why do YOU guys get to put me down, but when I do it, it's so awful and terrible and thus I deserve even MORE verbal punishment?

V you put yourself down enough for everyone. When people don't put you down they get bashed for lying - yet when they do -- it is a problem. Jeez

[verhrzn]

V you put yourself down enough for everyone. When people don't put you down they get bashed for lying - yet when they do -- it is a problem. Jeez

 

Maybe it's because they're putting me down for completely separate things than what I am saying about myself, and they are also doing it under the guise of trying to "help" me. I can't stand hypocrites.

 

All I've ever asked for is sympathy and understanding. Why does everyone on this board have an issue with that?

[xxoo]

But "extreme" and "matters of degrees" are opinions, according to you. By your standards, you think I'm of an average weight. But by the BMI and my doctor's notes, I am not. I am overweight (though not obese.) You won't see me claiming I am obese, but "fat" is a wide range. I don't see what is extreme about calling myself fat if I am, by objective measures, inside the overweight range.

 

That's why I put "were" in parenthesis. You may be in the overweight range now, but you were calling yourself fat when you were still in a healthy weight range.

 

Look, this is all just really semantics that keep circling back to the main point: If I were to claim I was average, it would make even LESS sense why guys have never been into me.

 

Guys were not into me even before I began the "negative" talk, as I explained in an earlier post. So if guys have never been into me, and have in fact vocally expressed how unattractive I am, why is it an extreme for me to claim I'm ugly?

 

No one will ever just answer this goddamn fundamental question: I was not always negative. I AM not always negative. I have shown my dating profile to several posters (ThaW, IAmAJerk) and they could detect NO negativity there.

 

And yet guys still have not been attracted to me.

 

So since you can't blame my "negativity" in all situations, and you all claim it's not my looks, then what the **** is it?

 

You've had boyfriends. Early on with the latest, you said that he was one guy you believed was truly into your looks.

 

I think men have been attracted to you, and you deny it. And probably annoy them until they crack and tell you what you want to hear.