When To Stop Dating?

[Lonely Ronin]

All I've ever asked for is sympathy and understanding. Why does everyone on this board have an issue with that?

 

If every single LS member told you exactly what you want to hear would it even really matter?

 

You know how they say, you have to hit rock bottom, before you can get back up, would it be safe to say you don't want to get back up?

[SmileFace]

Maybe it's because they're putting me down for completely separate things than what I am saying about myself, and they are also doing it under the guise of trying to "help" me. I can't stand hypocrites.

 

All I've ever asked for is sympathy and understanding. Why does everyone on this board have an issue with that?

Please tell me how one person on this board has been a hypocrite to you. You can use me as an example if I fall into that catogory.

 

I personally don't think you need sympathy.

I think you just need to make the best of life like the rest of us. If my life was perfect petals I may feel bad for you but my life is just as ****ed up so my sympathy doesn't generally go farther than myself. I am pretty sure you don't have sympathy for anyone here anyway. You can't even have sympathy for SD - not saying he needs it but you throw that silly thing about a practice gf in his face everytime you get.

 

I can probably count the amount of people I sympathize with on this board on one hand.

 

I feel bad that you keep posting and in the same manner on this same board that you seem to get no help. What is the point? What are you looking for?

[xxoo]

Maybe it's because they're putting me down for completely separate things than what I am saying about myself, and they are also doing it under the guise of trying to "help" me. I can't stand hypocrites.

 

All I've ever asked for is sympathy and understanding. Why does everyone on this board have an issue with that?

 

V, if there is one thing you should know by now, it is to NEVER post on a message board to hear only what you what to hear

[verhrzn]

If every single LS member told you exactly what you want to hear would it even really matter?

 

You know how they say, you have to hit rock bottom, before you can get back up, would it be safe to say you don't want to get back up?

 

YES it would! I already answered this question several pages ago. I am SICK of being kicked around by the world. I don't even need "every single" LS member. The only one who has EVER given just sympathy was Anela. If I knew just a handful of people just supported me and sympathesized with me, then I could just stop fighting.

 

I don't want to get up just to get knocked down again. Example: I go to a salon. I get a brand new, expensive hair cut. I walk out thinking I look pretty good. I go stand at the bus stop. And some guys behind me snicker to each other about how I look like a lesbian. Since I was previously in a "good" place, I am not prepared for this... and it knocks me even FURTHER down than I was before.

 

If, however, I never think I look good, then I can never be knocked down. I don't feel the humiliation of "being wrong." I know I look like a lesbian so their comments don't hurt as much.

 

Okay, anybody watch "Game of Thrones"? Remember how Tyrion is always referring to himself a halfling, a dwarf, an ugly abomination? His reasoning was that if you take the thing about yourself that the world judges, that the world hates, that the world uses against you, then you can build armor from it. You can no longer be hurt by people's comments, because you are making those very same comments about yourself.

 

That is my reckoning for how I discuss my looks. The world thinks I'm ugly? Fine, I shall also call myself ugly.

 

But more importantly.... I call myself ugly because that is what everyone else calls me.

 

I say again.... if it isn't my negativity, and it isn't my looks, then why the hell are guys never interested in me?

[xxoo]

I know I look like a lesbian so their comments don't hurt as much.

 

I can see that people might think you look like a lesbian. But that's something you might be able to work on.

 

Also, we are only seeing pictures. In person, you you carry yourself in feminine or masculine ways? Your social interactions seem masculine in energy to me. That could explain men not being interested, even though you are not ugly.

 

But more importantly.... I call myself ugly because that is what everyone else calls me.

 

That's obviously not true, because no one here calls you ugly. So "everyone" does not call you ugly.

[FitChick]

This is an excerpt from the excellent article in the link I posted upthread. This is why some people (not naming names) won't let go of negativity:

 

When you feel upset you experience: 'I am upset'—with an emphasis both on the “I” and the “am.” It feels like who you are is 'upset' and that you are almost defined by that feeling. Thus, when you feel upset, if the upset disappeared, it seems like the “you” that remained would not really be you, because the upset you are is no longer present. If an emotion that seems like an inherent part of you—like part of who you are—disappears, it feels like you have been wiped out of existence.

There’s another reason it can be hard to let go of a negative feeling. If you try to dissolve the meaning (the occurring) that gave rise to the feeling, some part of you doesn’t want to let go of the meaning because it validates and justifies the feeling.

 

For example, imagine someone says or does something and you feel angry. Assume you had given what the person said or did the meaning: 'If he really cared about me, he wouldn’t have done it.' The meaning you gave to the event justifies and validates your feeling of anger, which feels like a part of who you are. If you dissolved the meaning and realized the event had no inherent meaning, you could no longer justify the anger. So some part of you wants to hold on to the meaning.

[Lonely Ronin]

I don't want to get up just to get knocked down again.

 

Someone, or something is always going to be there to knock you down if you let it. At some point you and you alone have to decide enough is enough, and that you're not going to get knocked down anymore. Then and only then will an attackers blows bounce off.

 

 

if it isn't my negativity, and it isn't my looks, then why the hell are guys never interested in me?

 

It's never that simple, It's most likely a combination of many things, and only half of them involve you.

[aussietigerwolf]

BMI can give some pretty skewed results...

According to BMI I'm overweight but really I'm a little underweight

[Leigh 87]

v,

 

The pic of you, when you were at your worst, is still not ugly; it is AVERAGE. And your looks have improved somewhat as you mentioned, therefore you would be a 6 or 7 out of ten now.

 

I SEE women like your OLD PICTURE when you were "less attractive'' than you are now: they have partners, families, and have men who are attracted to them.

 

..................Some people truly are NOT physically attractive to basically ANYONE! For instance:

- disfigured people

- people with terrible scares, coupled with poor facial symmerty (tiny forhead) and acne

 

THOSE people would not be physically attractive, not until they met and connected to a person on deeper level, whereby they would then be adores and loved and viewed as attractive to their partners.

 

YOu are NOT in the group of women who are physically unattractive to virtually anyone.

[Leigh 87]

This needs to keep being mentioned:

 

Women that are the same level of attractivness as V get partners/husbands/dates.

 

Therefore it is not her looks alone

 

These average looking women who have partners, do not always have super amazing personalities that captivate many people.

So, average people do not have to have totally AWESOME personalities to compensate for their looks to get dates.

 

And V is far from dull; in fact, V is rather interesting sounding and unique.

 

.....even Average looking people with ... well, average personalities, find people who find THEM to be amazing. Probably another person who is also average looking, and does not require 2 masters degrees and some amazing, aultruistic saint who is so funny and witty....

 

Ya know... Two average people with nothing that stand out ish about them, meet all the time! Through getting closer, if they have the right chemistry and emotions for one another, they will become amazing to one another!

[Eternal Sunshine]

Hell, I know people that are a lot worse looking than V in loving relationships. This obese girl I went to high school with is now happily married with kids (and she is still obese). Her H is about average looking.

 

When we were in high school, she was literally never approached.

[Ross MwcFan]

Someone, or something is always going to be there to knock you down if you let it. At some point you and you alone have to decide enough is enough, and that you're not going to get knocked down anymore. Then and only then will an attackers blows bounce off.

 

 

 

 

It's never that simple, It's most likely a combination of many things, and only half of them involve you.

 

How do you decide though? I could try saying to myself, 'I decide that I'm not going to let myself get kocked down anymore', but it wouldn't make any difference.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I feel like verhrzn is simply just tired being lied to her about her looks, people over exaggerating on her attractiveness and to tell herself she is beautiful while her reality tells her anything but so, he real life experience. And that's a problem I also have with this forum, sometimes people forget to separate the "idealistic" and way it should be world, from how it really works. The world is a pretty cold, judgmental and superficial place...or at least it can be depending on what lens you're viewing it through, and I do because of that thinks it's unfair to an extent to tell verhrzn how she should feel and live her life, and just snap her fingers and have this new and improved attitude when for her it has no merit or purpose, because for her it doesn't change the facts...it doesn't fool herself into feeling any better about herself because she doesn't feel understood, accepted or heard emotionally. As soon as she tries to lift her head up or her spirits, something always comes and knocks her back down, and that pain is more unbearable then just simply saying you are worthless.

 

You've obviously seem to have been very hurt in your life by anything you've put high hopes or expectations into verhrzn, and I do understand that and sympathize that more than you know. And the world of "love" hasn't worked out like you thought it would. You seem to have wanted to believe that what was more important were the things people were actually saying were, what was on the inside, who that person was etc...before you seemed to feel at least somewhat content with your qualities and valued yourself in spite of harsh treatment and criticisms from your peers...however only to feel ridiculed and ostracized by the reality as people continue to try and change you, improve you, and make you feel like you've got to be someone else and something else since people seem to mainly be more focused on what you have to offer on that level, much of it superficially and because you don't feel like you meet those standards naturally and even when you have made attempts it seems to make you feel like you can't be happy or just accepted for who you really are.

 

I'm not trying to play psychologist or tell you how you feel or speak for you verhrzn but this is what I "feel" or interpret what you are saying...I feel like I can almost hear you hiss at me like a cornered and threatened cat at times just speaking to you. You make me feel like I'll be attacked by you if I say something the "wrong" way to you, so as much as you may not realize I try to mainly stay out of your posts but my expressive string always get tickled as you always you rile up the populace on LS once again.

 

In my opinion people see a little of themselves in you, and I do think you are intelligent, just very jaded and one-dimensional, there is more coming out of you than you are taking in. I feel like you're a very closed off person who is afraid to open and trust people, and I think you get something out of the attention and also out of the self-abuse, it's like you are parading yourself down the streets of LS beating yourself with a stick while some fling themselves towards you trying to stop you.

 

I think you just want to be understood and accepted for who you are the way you are. I think you just want someone to validate your emotions and feelings and tell you it's ok to feel the way you do, that you're not wrong, that you're not jaded or need to change because I think that's what makes you feel the way you do in the first place, or how you got started. It seems like you've always had people just trying to "help" you or "fix" you when all you've wanted was just some affection and reassurance that everything is going to be ok, hell maybe you wouldn't even want that...what would you spend your time doing verhrzn if you weren't putting yourself down trying to convince everyone else that this is what you are? Do people not have a right to judge you for what they see?

 

I think people see more to you than a face, especially the people here to know you are and aware of who you are. I don't care what you look like personally, or how much you weigh, I think people respect your intelligence and the insights and raw emotions of a woman who's just exposing her true feelings and vulnerabilities, I personally think you bring up some great topics, but you seem more invested in the self-defeating, self-loathing process than self-repair or improving your love life or situation...so what is it that you want from us, or probably not from me but the forum?

 

If you need acceptance and understanding, I think many do feel for you, more than you know, they're just not saying it out loud, and maybe they should let you know they do If they care. Because I understand and sympathize with you, I just don't ultimately agree with your perspective or judgment but I don't hate you for it and just judge you based on that personally.

 

Sometimes you've got to hit rock bottom before you can go up again, and sometimes I feel like you need that for yourself verhrzn, I think you need to accept, feel and ultimately let go a lot of these internal emotions and realize you are manifesting and projecting a lot of your emotions into your relationships, like we all do.

 

Maybe you need to confront the people who have made you feel this way, where this truly started, maybe it started with your parents, maybe it started with certain friends, maybe you need to start telling people in real life how things they do make you really feel, instead of unleashing your wrath on LS...which to me just comes off as misguided frustration and pain.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Ninjainpajamas

[Emilia]

I feel like verhrzn is simply just tired being lied to her about her looks, people over exaggerating on her attractiveness and to tell herself she is beautiful while her reality tells her anything but so, he real life experience. And that's a problem I also have with this forum, sometimes people forget to separate the "idealistic" and way it should be world, from how it really works. The world is a pretty cold, judgmental and superficial place...or at least it can be depending on what lens you're viewing it through, and I do because of that thinks it's unfair to an extent to tell verhrzn how she should feel and live her life, and just snap her fingers and have this new and improved attitude when for her it has no merit or purpose, because for her it doesn't change the facts..

 

Well to be fair, you do come across as a rather negative person. While I often agree with your posts, the tone of them I find overtly pessimistic like you see the worst in everyone's motivation. I think anyone that feels that LS is consistently rose-tinted is a rather negative person - compared to your average homo sapiens.

 

I don't care what you look like personally, or how much you weigh,

 

I don't know if this statement means you have never seen V's photos. I have and I can tell you that she has no issues in the looks department. There is some objectivity required when looks are judged and you can't really say that 50 people who say she is fine looking vs 1 person who says she is fugly (that one person is V) the 50 people are wrong. Yes some sugar coat stuff, especially younger girls but most regular posters don't. Myself included. That's because most of us are intelligent enough to understand that sugar coating doesn't help anyone. Frankly it's insulting to suggest that regular posters - especially those that try to help V - don't understand this.

 

V's issues are not based on her looks and it should not be accepted as some kind of fact because it's false. She is not fat, she is not ugly and frankly even she was (and she isn't!) there are plenty of people that deal with more challenges who display a less self-obsessed and much healthier attitude.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I still don't get why V has such an issue with her looks. Even if she is average looking, most girls are average and don't make obsessive posts about it. I agree that an average looking girl will be treated differently than a super hot one. But that's just something most of us have come to accept. We know we are not hot but we are at peace with it.

 

I can't believe her life is THAT bad based on her looks alone. Just doesn't add up. There is something else at play.

[Leigh 87]

I can sort of see where she is coming from.

 

I am what many people consider to be "hot" now (although not super model material still)

 

I have not always been "hot". I was truly ugly with deformed teeth and BAD acne. Not to mention chubby.

 

I can say, that I REALLY ENJOY being "hot".

 

I enjoy men looking at me in the grocery stores, when I am in a positive and smiling mood; knowng that whatever I am feeling, men who do not otherwise know me are interested simply because of my looks.

 

However, it is a fleeting thing! I could get in a severe accident tomorrow and loose my looks immediately, and I WILL not be hot once I age enough....

[Leigh 87]

When I was growing up, with terrible acne, I would hibernate for days at a time, with pimple cream all over my face, PRAYING and DREAMING about how much I wanted clear skin.

 

I also was extremely upset that I did not look like a model; I was really sh*tty about the fact that I had a crooked jewish nose, acne, and was overweight.

 

I SO wished that I was attractive for MANY years.......

 

So I definately sympathise with V.

 

I was a heck of a lot more ugly than she is ( as she is not even below average for most people).

 

I got treated badly my entire life due to my looks, too.

 

It has served me well in the end, as I now treat everyone well, regardless of looks.

[Eternal Sunshine]

FYI, maybe I am weird but I find V's face in that high school photo quite attractive...

[verhrzn]

I feel like verhrzn is simply just tired being lied to her about her looks, people over exaggerating on her attractiveness and to tell herself she is beautiful while her reality tells her anything but so, he real life experience. And that's a problem I also have with this forum, sometimes people forget to separate the "idealistic" and way it should be world, from how it really works. The world is a pretty cold, judgmental and superficial place...or at least it can be depending on what lens you're viewing it through, and I do because of that thinks it's unfair to an extent to tell verhrzn how she should feel and live her life, and just snap her fingers and have this new and improved attitude when for her it has no merit or purpose, because for her it doesn't change the facts...it doesn't fool herself into feeling any better about herself because she doesn't feel understood, accepted or heard emotionally. As soon as she tries to lift her head up or her spirits, something always comes and knocks her back down, and that pain is more unbearable then just simply saying you are worthless.

 

You've obviously seem to have been very hurt in your life by anything you've put high hopes or expectations into verhrzn, and I do understand that and sympathize that more than you know. And the world of "love" hasn't worked out like you thought it would. You seem to have wanted to believe that what was more important were the things people were actually saying were, what was on the inside, who that person was etc...before you seemed to feel at least somewhat content with your qualities and valued yourself in spite of harsh treatment and criticisms from your peers...however only to feel ridiculed and ostracized by the reality as people continue to try and change you, improve you, and make you feel like you've got to be someone else and something else since people seem to mainly be more focused on what you have to offer on that level, much of it superficially and because you don't feel like you meet those standards naturally and even when you have made attempts it seems to make you feel like you can't be happy or just accepted for who you really are.

 

I'm not trying to play psychologist or tell you how you feel or speak for you verhrzn but this is what I "feel" or interpret what you are saying...I feel like I can almost hear you hiss at me like a cornered and threatened cat at times just speaking to you. You make me feel like I'll be attacked by you if I say something the "wrong" way to you, so as much as you may not realize I try to mainly stay out of your posts but my expressive string always get tickled as you always you rile up the populace on LS once again.

 

In my opinion people see a little of themselves in you, and I do think you are intelligent, just very jaded and one-dimensional, there is more coming out of you than you are taking in. I feel like you're a very closed off person who is afraid to open and trust people, and I think you get something out of the attention and also out of the self-abuse, it's like you are parading yourself down the streets of LS beating yourself with a stick while some fling themselves towards you trying to stop you.

 

I think you just want to be understood and accepted for who you are the way you are. I think you just want someone to validate your emotions and feelings and tell you it's ok to feel the way you do, that you're not wrong, that you're not jaded or need to change because I think that's what makes you feel the way you do in the first place, or how you got started. It seems like you've always had people just trying to "help" you or "fix" you when all you've wanted was just some affection and reassurance that everything is going to be ok, hell maybe you wouldn't even want that...what would you spend your time doing verhrzn if you weren't putting yourself down trying to convince everyone else that this is what you are? Do people not have a right to judge you for what they see?

 

I think people see more to you than a face, especially the people here to know you are and aware of who you are. I don't care what you look like personally, or how much you weigh, I think people respect your intelligence and the insights and raw emotions of a woman who's just exposing her true feelings and vulnerabilities, I personally think you bring up some great topics, but you seem more invested in the self-defeating, self-loathing process than self-repair or improving your love life or situation...so what is it that you want from us, or probably not from me but the forum?

 

If you need acceptance and understanding, I think many do feel for you, more than you know, they're just not saying it out loud, and maybe they should let you know they do If they care. Because I understand and sympathize with you, I just don't ultimately agree with your perspective or judgment but I don't hate you for it and just judge you based on that personally.

 

Sometimes you've got to hit rock bottom before you can go up again, and sometimes I feel like you need that for yourself verhrzn, I think you need to accept, feel and ultimately let go a lot of these internal emotions and realize you are manifesting and projecting a lot of your emotions into your relationships, like we all do.

 

Maybe you need to confront the people who have made you feel this way, where this truly started, maybe it started with your parents, maybe it started with certain friends, maybe you need to start telling people in real life how things they do make you really feel, instead of unleashing your wrath on LS...which to me just comes off as misguided frustration and pain.

 

Actually this is EXACTLY what I needed. I just need to be told someone hears me, someone understands me, someone isn't trying to change me.

 

Based on my time in high school, I'd say I'd probably spend a lot of time just being in my own little world if I wasn't obsessed with my looks. I was really a loner in high school, I spent most of my free time writing and watching shows I loved. The only time I really enjoyed interacting with people was online, when we discussed hobbies we had in common on forums.

 

I was also happy in my college classes, because once I got deeper into my core study areas, I felt like my brain was being used too much to spend time on analyzing social interaction. I was busy analyzing OTHER things, so I had less time to be focus on being upset.

 

Now that I'm in the real world, I don't have anything to focus my brain on... my job is mind-numbingly boring, and no one around me ever talks about anything interesting. The only people who really talk about what I like are grad students.... but they don't like socializing with me, because I am "beneath" them in knowledge.

 

And I am no longer naive enough to lose myself in my own little world like I did in high school.

 

So I feel like I'm stuck. Like I'm a dog who never gets exercised so I chew the furniture.

 

I guess I keep coming back to the forum hoping for answers, and if those are not possible, than sympathy/understanding. In high school, the Internet was the one place that seemed to accept me. Maybe that's what I keep trying to repeat.

[lino]

If you are, as you say, fat and/or ugly ( I haven't seen your photo) then perhaps you should focus on fat and/or ugly guys?

[xxoo]

Now that I'm in the real world, I don't have anything to focus my brain on... my job is mind-numbingly boring, and no one around me ever talks about anything interesting. The only people who really talk about what I like are grad students.... but they don't like socializing with me, because I am "beneath" them in knowledge.

 

There are no message board forums to discuss your academic interests?

 

Read, study, and discuss with others online. It's got to be more productive than discussing your body with strangers online!

[Mme. Chaucer]

. The only people who really talk about what I like are grad students....

 

Grad students talk about how fat and ugly you think you are? Who knew!

[SteveC80]

I think you need to tell people in your life to f off because it seems to me that your self esteem is so low that you know youre being mistreated by these friends/family members yet you still want acceptance and validation from them so much that you are willing to stay in bad relationships just because you think its what people want from you..

 

I also think you deserve some blame because while i acknowledge some men can be real jerks it seems as if you either have

 

a. have the worst luck with men and run into the most unifltered mean jerks ever or

 

b.what i think is more likely is that while you found some bad seeds since then youve projected them onto every man you get with and nudge him till he explodes and says mean things you expect

 

Bottom line is theyres nothign wrogn with being a loner stop trying to live up to friends and families expectations when these people dont seen to have your best interest in mind anyway

 

ENjoy being with yourself for awhile and just chatting people online who have similliar interests and if you find the right guy great but dont obses over it because you think its what people and society expect from you as a women

Edited November 23, 2012 by SteveC80

[Ninjainpajamas]

Well to be fair, you do come across as a rather negative person. While I often agree with your posts, the tone of them I find overtly pessimistic like you see the worst in everyone's motivation. I think anyone that feels that LS is consistently rose-tinted is a rather negative person - compared to your average homo sapiens.

 

I don't know if this statement means you have never seen V's photos. I have and I can tell you that she has no issues in the looks department. There is some objectivity required when looks are judged and you can't really say that 50 people who say she is fine looking vs 1 person who says she is fugly (that one person is V) the 50 people are wrong. Yes some sugar coat stuff, especially younger girls but most regular posters don't. Myself included. That's because most of us are intelligent enough to understand that sugar coating doesn't help anyone. Frankly it's insulting to suggest that regular posters - especially those that try to help V - don't understand this.

 

V's issues are not based on her looks and it should not be accepted as some kind of fact because it's false. She is not fat, she is not ugly and frankly even she was (and she isn't!) there are plenty of people that deal with more challenges who display a less self-obsessed and much healthier attitude.

 

I understand how likely most of forum views me in that regard, and honestly I don't have much of a problem with it because the role I'm trying to provide is an honest assessment of the faults of the situation, however critical or negative I come off, I want to give people the knowledge and insight if they're willing to see it or at least take it into consideration.

 

I understand too much and feel too strongly about it to deny when something is off or the real issues are not being addressed and there are usually plenty of "optimistic" or equally delusional people around to tell the person the opposite, or feed into the "hope", or maybe there is an actual long-term "romance" taking place...you know, mainly the things that people want to hear is reassurance no matter how wrong about or ridiculous their situation is.

 

So while the rest of the crowd may be cheering or feeling optimistic as that person climbs up that ladder, rung by rung to the roof of that "potential" romance building...I'm looking at the legs buckling underneath it at the bottom. And while I attempt to alert that person of the potential fall as they climb higher and higher the rest of the crowd is cheering, simply watching, or encouraging their progress "seeing what happens"...my words hardly keep that person distracted enough from continuing to climb...but when that ladder snaps and they come crashing down, some gasp with surprise, others watch in amusement, disappointment...that person is hurt from the fall, and equally as unaware as they were the first time they fell and guess what? they simply just climb another ladder as soon as they recover or find another building to climb...no accountability, no responsibility, no reflection, no understanding, just simply rinse and repeat...is it a surprise that the same events repeat themselves? It always is to that person. But Is it just coincidence that the "broken" stay struggling with relationships while the sound succeed without much complication?

 

That's why I see through everything to the core, I'm someone who doesn't understand, sympathize or care...If I didn't would I spend so much time, energy and emotion in writing to all these people? ultimately I've done a lot of self work, and as a "broken" person i can tell the behavior and patterns of other broken people, i see the cyclical repetition and merry-go-round that they don't see themselves on. And that is why I hit people so hard with truth and "negativity" because someone has got to make them think about these things and see the bigger picture of what they're doing and the type of people they are with and how they are managing their own lives and relationships in order to see the root of these problems, because there sure isn't anyone else doing it.

 

I will strongly push against people trying to repeat bad behavior and be overly critical with those who try and make it "ok" and ignore the real issues, and use the same mentalities and strategies they've always used to get themselves into the same messes time and time again...because I'm ultimately trying to help save them from themselves, and I don't have time to sit there and be there therapist by giving them this full experience of support and care, I've got to make a strong impact where I can, to hopefully rattle the cage enough to help them see themselves.

 

I'm sure I can find ways to better do this, but it's hard...I'm a human being as well, I lose my patience, become emotional and become utterly frustrated and disappointed in people for their own self-defeating behavior, but it's not all negative...the place where my advice and concern/care comes from is not ultimately a bad place and for malicious reasons.

 

............

 

As far as V and her looks, I have seen her in a photo or two and I think she is average in appearance, wouldn't stand-out but at the same time wouldn't think people would ridicule her or insult her appearance. I think people especially women are concerned with appearance and so are men so of course this is the first thing people usually go to because it accounts for so much when people first see you, they see before they hear or understand.

 

I would tell anyone to improve their appearance and learn how to socially conduct yourself because that's how the world works, I didn't make the rules, but I see them, and in terms of dating if you want to succeed in it then you've got to play by them to have the best or at least most possibilities of finding someone. And I don't see that as just a negative thing, I think it's good to look and feel your best. I notice a difference in myself and I never met anyone who hasn't.

 

The issue with V to me is that it's been so drilled into her about her looks that she's hyper sensitive and feels super criticized and judged when it's just the same old rehashing. So people make the main emphasis her looks and so does she, look at most of the comments, they're very centralized around her appearance...while as usual, nobody listens to what she is saying and how she is feeling, she doesn't want you to help her understand her issues with her appearance, telling her to improve her body, or date this kind of guy or that...she's already heard most of that her entire life.

 

She's hurt because of the way she feels about herself and that once again her looks are not up to par because that's what she is always hearing...and in her relationship her BF doesn't sleep with her so she feels neglected and rejected, even a super hot typical type would feel the same exact way...I don't know any woman who doesn't need validation of interest from her SO, regardless of how hot or not she is.

 

She wants her BF and others to say what every woman wants to hear....I love you the way you are, I don't want to change or improve you, I accept you for the faults and still think you are amazing, I'm in love with you and completely happy with you, you're what I want and what I need, and I don't need anyone else.

 

But because V never feels accepted, understood for who she is, what she has to offer, her intelligence or other qualities is never held as high on the ratings as her looks and she feels that has probably held her back a lot, even to the extent a man won't love her for who she is...after all that's what everyone tells her. She doesn't feel that embrace, and she's unable to distract herself with other goals or ventures because she doesn't have anything going on, so she doesn't feel good about herself and like she's just trapped in a cage.

 

She comes online looking for something that we didn't expect, because she can hard and abrasive...seeming to be insensitive but instead of a fight she's looking for someone out there to make her feel a little less crazy and emotional....she's looking for emotional support and acceptance because she doesn't get it in her real life....that's her real problem.

 

She needs that support in order to move on, the whole "looks" thing is just a a manifestation of her negative experiences of people who meant well or criticized her simply to feel better about themselves that unfortunately engrained deep within her and makes her feel inadequate. I think she wants to feel loved and accepted before she can open up to feeling good about herself again, because at least she'll know that she's being valued for something else.

 

People who are talking about her looks and body are completely missing the real point and root of the problem. That is just how she projects her ugliness, and the way she feels about herself...it won't do her any good to change the outside without fixing the inside first and she'll never feel accepted even if she did it, out of fear of feeling pretty then being bashed again anyway. She's used her appearance as a shield, to accept and deflect negativity because she already feels she knows what to expect.

 

Alright, I'm outta here....I'm getting too damn soft and squishy in this thread.

[ThaWholigan]

I understand how likely most of forum views me in that regard, and honestly I don't have much of a problem with it because the role I'm trying to provide is an honest assessment of the faults of the situation, however critical or negative I come off, I want to give people the knowledge and insight if they're willing to see it or at least take it into consideration.

 

I understand too much and feel too strongly about it to deny when something is off or the real issues are not being addressed and there are usually plenty of "optimistic" or equally delusional people around to tell the person the opposite, or feed into the "hope", or maybe there is an actual long-term "romance" taking place...you know, mainly the things that people want to hear is reassurance no matter how wrong about or ridiculous their situation is.

 

So while the rest of the crowd may be cheering or feeling optimistic as that person climbs up that ladder, rung by rung to the roof of that "potential" romance building...I'm looking at the legs buckling underneath it at the bottom. And while I attempt to alert that person of the potential fall as they climb higher and higher the rest of the crowd is cheering, simply watching, or encouraging their progress "seeing what happens"...my words hardly keep that person distracted enough from continuing to climb...but when that ladder snaps and they come crashing down, some gasp with surprise, others watch in amusement, disappointment...that person is hurt from the fall, and equally as unaware as they were the first time they fell and guess what? they simply just climb another ladder as soon as they recover or find another building to climb...no accountability, no responsibility, no reflection, no understanding, just simply rinse and repeat...is it a surprise that the same events repeat themselves? It always is to that person. But Is it just coincidence that the "broken" stay struggling with relationships while the sound succeed without much complication?

 

That's why I see through everything to the core, I'm someone who doesn't understand, sympathize or care...If I didn't would I spend so much time, energy and emotion in writing to all these people? ultimately I've done a lot of self work, and as a "broken" person i can tell the behavior and patterns of other broken people, i see the cyclical repetition and merry-go-round that they don't see themselves on. And that is why I hit people so hard with truth and "negativity" because someone has got to make them think about these things and see the bigger picture of what they're doing and the type of people they are with and how they are managing their own lives and relationships in order to see the root of these problems, because there sure isn't anyone else doing it.

 

I will strongly push against people trying to repeat bad behavior and be overly critical with those who try and make it "ok" and ignore the real issues, and use the same mentalities and strategies they've always used to get themselves into the same messes time and time again...because I'm ultimately trying to help save them from themselves, and I don't have time to sit there and be there therapist by giving them this full experience of support and care, I've got to make a strong impact where I can, to hopefully rattle the cage enough to help them see themselves.

 

I'm sure I can find ways to better do this, but it's hard...I'm a human being as well, I lose my patience, become emotional and become utterly frustrated and disappointed in people for their own self-defeating behavior, but it's not all negative...the place where my advice and concern/care comes from is not ultimately a bad place and for malicious reasons.

 

............

 

As far as V and her looks, I have seen her in a photo or two and I think she is average in appearance, wouldn't stand-out but at the same time wouldn't think people would ridicule her or insult her appearance. I think people especially women are concerned with appearance and so are men so of course this is the first thing people usually go to because it accounts for so much when people first see you, they see before they hear or understand.

 

I would tell anyone to improve their appearance and learn how to socially conduct yourself because that's how the world works, I didn't make the rules, but I see them, and in terms of dating if you want to succeed in it then you've got to play by them to have the best or at least most possibilities of finding someone. And I don't see that as just a negative thing, I think it's good to look and feel your best. I notice a difference in myself and I never met anyone who hasn't.

 

The issue with V to me is that it's been so drilled into her about her looks that she's hyper sensitive and feels super criticized and judged when it's just the same old rehashing. So people make the main emphasis her looks and so does she, look at most of the comments, they're very centralized around her appearance...while as usual, nobody listens to what she is saying and how she is feeling, she doesn't want you to help her understand her issues with her appearance, telling her to improve her body, or date this kind of guy or that...she's already heard most of that her entire life.

 

She's hurt because of the way she feels about herself and that once again her looks are not up to par because that's what she is always hearing...and in her relationship her BF doesn't sleep with her so she feels neglected and rejected, even a super hot typical type would feel the same exact way...I don't know any woman who doesn't need validation of interest from her SO, regardless of how hot or not she is.

 

She wants her BF and others to say what every woman wants to hear....I love you the way you are, I don't want to change or improve you, I accept you for the faults and still think you are amazing, I'm in love with you and completely happy with you, you're what I want and what I need, and I don't need anyone else.

 

But because V never feels accepted, understood for who she is, what she has to offer, her intelligence or other qualities is never held as high on the ratings as her looks and she feels that has probably held her back a lot, even to the extent a man won't love her for who she is...after all that's what everyone tells her. She doesn't feel that embrace, and she's unable to distract herself with other goals or ventures because she doesn't have anything going on, so she doesn't feel good about herself and like she's just trapped in a cage.

 

She comes online looking for something that we didn't expect, because she can hard and abrasive...seeming to be insensitive but instead of a fight she's looking for someone out there to make her feel a little less crazy and emotional....she's looking for emotional support and acceptance because she doesn't get it in her real life....that's her real problem.

 

She needs that support in order to move on, the whole "looks" thing is just a a manifestation of her negative experiences of people who meant well or criticized her simply to feel better about themselves that unfortunately engrained deep within her and makes her feel inadequate. I think she wants to feel loved and accepted before she can open up to feeling good about herself again, because at least she'll know that she's being valued for something else.

 

People who are talking about her looks and body are completely missing the real point and root of the problem. That is just how she projects her ugliness, and the way she feels about herself...it won't do her any good to change the outside without fixing the inside first and she'll never feel accepted even if she did it, out of fear of feeling pretty then being bashed again anyway. She's used her appearance as a shield, to accept and deflect negativity because she already feels she knows what to expect.

 

Alright, I'm outta here....I'm getting too damn soft and squishy in this thread.

You have said basically everything I have said to V over the course of many months.

 

My thing is this: where is that sympathy going to get her really? Sure, it's comforting and I have offered it - even if she denies it, it's not true and I've been sympathetic to everybody who has had problems here. But by itself, that is not really going to do much but indulge what is already harming her, in my honest opinion. So I would rather give her ideas and give her impetus to try to find a balance.

 

The thing is, I get the impression that when I tell people to try to be more positive, they immediately make the assumption that I think people should be uber-optimistic and think they are awesome, flawless individuals and everything is sunshine and rainbows. That's what V does every time I give her advice and that is the complete opposite of what I'm saying to do.

 

My theory is that she needs self-acceptance. Not accepting that she's ugly and awful, nor super and beautiful, but just as she is. Without a label, without an over-arch into uber positive or uber negative, but just as she is. Simple. She also needs to accept that whatever happens, whether she is happy or sad, positive or negative, ugly or beautiful, people are going to beat up on her in a variety of ways regardless. It has happened to me plenty of time. I see MUCH of myself in Verhrzn's words. I thought I was ugly, I had people tell me I was ugly too, I wasn't the academic superstar my loved ones believed me to be, and my social circle happened to me by accident because I knew how to play a piano. It took a very long time for me to accept being different to people, and I am different. But I didn't do it by telling myself I'm awesome and flawless or any of that stuff that people think I say, because it's hogwash. I just accept that I am who I am. I will always have detractors and people who talk ill of me, both online an offline. Sh*t, if you go on youtube, you can actually find diss records by internet rappers against me . I accept it. It happens. But you know what? I'm not miserable. And it's because I accept that sometimes life can be sh*t. That way, when sh*t happens, it does not bother me and I'm not gonna be depressed about it. I don't know if that is just me and my generally apathetic nature to the ills of life, or maybe there is something wrong with me, but I feel that V would benefit from at least a piece of the advice that I give.

 

If I genuinely believed that just being sympathetic and offering the odd mollycoddling platitude here and there would help, I would do it every time. But I don't think it would. I think it would add more harm to an already fragile scenario. That's not to say I think that V should change this and fix that all the time. I'm not one to hand out quick-fixes, nothing of substance comes overnight. I truly believe she should continue to be the person she already is, but she needs to love being that person. I'm not saying she needs to think she's awesome and flawless. I love my mother, but she isn't flawless. She does some stupid sh*t sometimes and she's over-emotional to a fault (it actually makes her sick - high blood pressure) and it pisses me off because she should know better. But I love her all the same. That's what V needs to do. She has a flaws but everybody does. She needs to love that flawed being that she is.

 

I guess I could try to be more supportive in terms of not allowing myself to be annoyed by having my advice thrown back into my face. I should really expect that because people do it in real life to me anyway. Maybe I'm the wrong one, I don't know. But at the same time, my only dog in this race is V's happiness. That is all any of us posting in this thread wants. Her to be at relative ease in her life at last.

Edited November 23, 2012 by ThaWholigan