xxoo Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 So when a guy wants to grow facial hair (which is a natural part of the body) and a woman disapproves, it's okay. But when a woman wants to get a tattoo (an unnatural blemish) and a man disapproves, he has no right to do it because "it's her body". Glad we cleared that up. FWIW, not all of us feel that way. I'd wager a guess that the people who say "it's her body!" would say the same thing about a man wanting to grow facial hair (says wife of bearded man). 2
tman666 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Back to the original question: what can I say to dissuade her from not getting the tattoo? Since you seem otherwise serious about this girl and the relationship, do what mature people do when they come across any other problem in their relationship: talk about it. Let her know why you don't want to see tattoos on her. Let her know, in no uncertain terms, how it is a complete turn off for you. Let her know that it will make her seem less attractive to you, and why. I don't think that approach is manipulative or self centered. It's brutally honest, but sometimes things need to be. The facts are that it is her body, to be sure, and she can do what she'd like with it. You cannot control that. All you can control is your responses to her actions. If she still gets the ink after you've already laid all your cards on the table, I'd recommend doing your best not to hold it against her. If it's such a turn off that it starts affecting your attraction to her, then at least you can sleep at night knowing that you warned her of the potential consequences of her actions. 4
TheBigQuestion Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) I dunno why she wants to get a tattoo. She basically said, "I dunno. I just want one. I think it would look cool on me." I think it's basically cuz she wants to follow what her friends and other women have. Women always like to follow the latest trend without thinking so that's basically her rationale for getting the tatt in the first place. Hmm. That sounds like a very immature rationale for getting something as permanent as a tattoo. It's basically the rationale that teenagers give when they beg their parents to let them get a tattoo. Real world example: my girlfriend got her first tattoo in high school that had no meaning, just for the sake of it, and now (quite predictably) regrets it. I don't know very many people who upon reaching the age of reason are happy with tattoos they got for no other reason than to get them, or for the sake of making a fashion statement. I've hung out with lots of vegans, anarchists, and crust punks in my day. Most of them are heavily inked, and by the time they reach their late 20s, most of them regret their impulse tattoos. I can certainly understand when a person gets one to commemorate something of deep importance to them. But to do it merely to follow a trend or because friends have them betrays some serious weak-mindedness and short-sightedness on her part. Excessive tattooing is also a sign of poor impulse control, which in turn is usually a tell-tale sign of serious psychological disorders, but she obviously hasn't gotten to that point yet. Granted, I don't share your distaste for tattoos from an aesthetic perspective, but if I was in your position, I'd be more concerned with your girlfriend's thought process. They reek of shortsightedness, immaturity, and show that she has no problem being part of a hive mind. That's just me though. I greatly value individuality and despise it when people think that they distinguish themselves by doing the exact same things everyone else is doing. As far as how to dissuade her, all you can do is *calmly* tell her how you feel about tattoos in general. You might also be able to get her to reconsider based on the reasons I described above. Edited November 20, 2012 by TheBigQuestion 3
tman666 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Hmm. That sounds like a very immature rationale for getting something as permanent as a tattoo. It's basically the rationale that teenagers give when they beg their parents to let them get a tattoo. Real world example: my girlfriend got her first tattoo in high school that had no meaning, just for the sake of it, and now (quite predictably) regrets it. I don't know very many people who upon reaching the age of reason are happy with tattoos they got for no other reason than to get them, or for the sake of making a fashion statement. I've hung out with lots of vegans, anarchists, and crust punks in my day. Most of them are heavily inked, and by the time they reach their late 20s, most of them regret their impulse tattoos. I can certainly understand when a person gets one to commemorate something of deep importance to them. But to do it merely to follow a trend or because friends have them betrays some serious weak-mindedness and short-sightedness on her part. Excessive tattooing is also a sign of poor impulse control, which in turn is usually a tell-tale sign of serious psychological disorders, but she obviously hasn't gotten to that point yet. Granted, I don't share your distaste for tattoos from an aesthetic perspective, but if I was in your position, I'd be more concerned with your girlfriend's thought process. They reek of shortsightedness, immaturity, and show that she has no problem being part of a hive mind. That's just me though. I greatly value individuality and despise it when people think that they distinguish themselves by doing the exact same things everyone else is doing. I agree with the above. I am also not a big fan of tattoos that were gotten "just because", due to the thought pattern that BigQuestion outlined above. My girl has 2 small tattoos; both were obtained as a tribute to the memory of a sibling she lost some years ago in a car wreck. Do I think they're attractive all on their own? No, not really. But they signify an important part of who she is. As far as how to handle this situation, OP, I stand by the "talk about it candidly" approach. If she's any sort of person you want to be with, she'll be down to have a rational discussion about it. 2
dasein Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Thanks for the added detail. IMO your strongest likely argument based on your second post is appealing to her desire to be individual as opposed to conformity. She is likely not considering that tattoos are conformist today 36% of adults have them, not any signal of independence, hip or cool, just another inked up, silly looking sheep in a flock. Tattoos were once a sign of rebellion Art, culture, conformity and the tattoo: a complex web of 'cool' - Opinion/Editorial - The Daily Helmsman tattoo you - tattoo suck You can give her some of these, or just steal from them to craft your own argument. Move on to the health angle and appeal to her vanity. Does she ever want kids? Does she lead a healthy lifestyle otherwise? Give her these or craft your own. The Truth About Tattoos: Health Risks, Toxicity and More Tattoo health risks - research raises concerns - SFGate Tattoo Inks Pose Health Risks Another angle is her own personal growth and change that is likely and could give her regret in the future: I hate my tattoo... they're common: Helen Mirren was 'very drunk' when she got body art | Mail Online The World According to Bitch Cakes: Please stop talking to me about tattoos!!! 5 Things to Consider Before You Get a Tattoo This should give you some ammo. Good luck getting past this issue. 1
Author Oxy Moronovich Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 I've known for quite a while that I should have a calm talk with her about it. But I've been avoiding it cuz I know there's a good chance it won't do any good. She may still end up getting the tatt and I'll end up looking for a new chick. When you're the person giving advice, it's simple to give advice and say, "Do it this way. If it doesn't work out then you two should break up." But when you're the one getting the advice it is difficult when you've invested a lot into the relationship emotionally. And I have invested a lot into this relationship. Still, it looks like I gotta have the talk and get it over with. Thanks for the advice, folks. And a special thanks to dasein for the links. I'll use that info in my argument.
Taramere Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Serious post. I've had sex with women with tattoos but tattoos on women turn me off so much I can't get into an LTR with a woman with tatts. Almost 2 weeks ago my gf said she wanted a tatt. I disapproved. We had a long fight. It took a week for us to get on speaking terms again. But things have been frosty. A woman without tatts seems to be becoming rarer ever year. At this rate, in 10 yrs. they'll be as hard to find as CD stores. I am not dating a chick with tatts. Any suggestion on how to get my gf's mind off this stupid idea? Beyond letting her know women with tattoos aren't really your type but acknowledging that it's her body, not really. Then again, I happen to think that if any approach is going to work, that's the approach with the biggest chance of success. As you can see from responses you've received from women, you going on about this too much is likely to be received as an indication that you feel a sense of ownership over her body. You can roll your eyes about that, but that's not going to alter the way she feels about it. This entire situation seems to be partly about aesthetics (you don't like tattoos) but also about control. "How do I talk her out of this?" The more you focus on that, the less success you're likely to meet with, because it'll just become a power struggle between the two of you. I can understand that it upsets and frustrates you that she knows you don't like tattoos and yet she'd still voluntarily change her body in a way that's likely to leave you feeling less attracted to her. However, without acknowledging that its her body to do what she wants with, you might not be able to move beyond this power struggle. Bombarding her with information and arguments as to why she shouldn't get a tattoo is likely to come across as control freakish...which is an entirely ineffective way to tackle something like this. Especially when you've already had a week long fight about it. You're her boyfriend, not her father. I would have thought the best approach is along the lines of "look, I can't pretend to be happy that the woman I love wants to alter her body in a way she knows I'm going to be turned off by. I value this relationship hugely, but I realise that ultimately it's your body and your choice and I apologise if I've come across as a bit paternalistic about all this." That way you're giving a hint that if she goes ahead with this decision it might have a detrimental impact on the relationship insofar as you'll feel less attracted to her, but you're not delivering any kind of ultimatum that, like so many control strategies, would bind you more than it would control her (making you look weak if you reneged on it). It might be that she gets the tattoo and even though you dislike it you don't dislike it strongly enough to end the relationship over it. Men and women often do things that piss eachother off and turn eachother off. A lot of people will refer to those things as dealbreakers...but ultimately a person having a long list of dealbreakers, and an inflexible approach to them, is probably the biggest dealbreaker of all. Try to avoid the trap of reacting to her "I might get a tattoo" ponderings in a control freakish way, Oxy. It's really unlikely to get the results you would hope for. Edited November 21, 2012 by Taramere 1
Million.to.1 Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) I would really like to chime in here..... I am a woman with 1 tattoo that i got at a relatively late age. (i was 28) It's pretty big and a bit random, but it's what i wanted and I love it. It's a piece of art. It's in white ink and people sometimes never notice it even though it covers much of my body. It tells a story and is of great significance to me in many different ways. It will be the only tattoo I ever get. I have a love/hate relationship with it and that's how i like it. (mostly love) It evolves with me and shapes who i am and how i present myself to the world. I have no regrets. OP... If she is really set on getting a tattoo, you are going to have to accept it or leave. But as it's true that many people regret tattoos later down the track...so if she is dead set on the idea, you could suggest, as a compromise maybe..... She could always get an outline in white. White doesn't do block well, but a thin line design can look really amazing and very subtle. She could always have it filled in or coloured up later when she has had some time with it. Also, in low lighting bedroom settings, it would be hard for you to see it Just a suggestion. Some of these images 2 3 are quite fresh so still have redness that wouldn't be there after a month or 2. Edited November 21, 2012 by Million.to.1
ascendotum Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 If I was against tattoos and my gf suddenly decided to get one, I'd be accepting of one to a point (type + location), but if her reason for wanting to get one, knowing I did not approve of them was..."I dunno. I just want one". It would piss me off, and make me less accepting of the concept. Personally for me though they are not a deal breaker so I would not leave over it, but be disappointed in her 'join the trend' motivation. You are going to have people here say, OP is stupid for throwing away a good relationship over a tattoo, but at the same time its not really any less legitimate to say she is wrong in be willing to burn a good relationship over a tattoo (that she can get in later yrs), that is driven by the aspiration... "I dunno. I just want one". I agree with tman's post in terms of advice. 3
Emilia Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 When you're the person giving advice, it's simple to give advice and say, "Do it this way. If it doesn't work out then you two should break up." But when you're the one getting the advice it is difficult when you've invested a lot into the relationship emotionally. And I have invested a lot into this relationship. Still, it looks like I gotta have the talk and get it over with. My sympathies, there are different ways of finding out that the person you are dating isn't quite as amazing as you had thought. I agree with tman and TheBigQuestion that it's about her thought process rather than the aesthetics of tattoos. Her lack of maturity and herd mentality would express itself in other ways in the future if that's any consolation.
charlietheginger Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 I hope she leaves you and gets the tat Your trying to control her.... What else will you try and control Down the road? Her thoughts Her dreams Her self esteem ?.. When you love someone you want to Make that person happy and you Want that person to be doing what makes them happy.... If your so hungup on a womens outside Appearance that your controling her Not getting a tat becuase of it.... Would not be surprised if she does it shows You then tells you to fook off...
Els Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 FWIW, not all of us feel that way. I'd wager a guess that the people who say "it's her body!" would say the same thing about a man wanting to grow facial hair (says wife of bearded man). Oh, no, we would absolutely tell said woman that wanting to grow a beard is immature and thus she should take over control of her man's body because he has demonstrated that he cannot take any responsibility for it! :lmao: Also she would get 'You go girl!'s for expressing her disgust over his beard in a manner that led them to fight for a week over it! How could you not know this about us, xxoo? 2
Eternal Sunshine Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 I guess I don't have a chance with the OP </3
Els Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 LOL...you got it all WRONG, Pierre. Don't you know that everyone claiims tattoos represent their 'individuality?' ROFL!!! I find them pretty classless and would never get one like the rest of the herd. Here's a pretty picture - a sweet little old lady in church with white hair, a string of pearls, and a tacky dragon tattoo doing up the side of her calf. Good lord. I'll take my so-called "art" on canvas, thank you. FWIW, I actually share your opinion on tattoos. Don't have one and never will. That doesn't change the fact that I believe that someone who truly loves another person will not believe that they have the right to control the aesthetic decisions that the other person makes about their own body, barring extremes. If you love a person, you would talk to her kindly and explain your own lack of attraction for tattoos (vs 'tattoos are stupid omg why would you get one, I'll break up with you if you get one!'). If she loves you, she would in return seek to talk to you about a compromise. Healthy and compatible Rs just don't dissolve into a week-long argument over both parties' absolute lack of ability to compromise over something as skin-deep as a tattoo. And thinking that one can somehow 'make' one's partner change her mind is just... well. Don't really have words for that one. 2
Eclypse Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Well this is a pickle. She seems quite stubborn about this. Either she doesn't get the tattoo and ends up resenting you, or she gets it and you resent her and possibly break up. Of course it is her body and she can do what she wants (some people amputate their own limbs for body modification) but she has to wear the consequences of her actions. Just like someone who decides to get a teardrop tattoo must accept the fact they'll never get another job, if she gets this tattoo she'll have to accept likely losing you. As others have said, are you willing to throw away a loving relationship just for this tattoo? However, the question can also be reversed to her. Does she value this tattoo so much that she accepts it will make her boyfriend (who she knows dislikes tattoos) likely leave? It sounds a bit selfish to me. My girlfriend can't stand alcohol and drinking (her father was an alcoholic) and if I showed up completely drunk at her place and started pawing at her she'd rightfully feel pissed off. Yes, one can do whatever they want, but they need to respect others also. Just like Dasein mentioned before, ask her how she would react if you got nipple piercings with swastikas or the SS Deaths Head symbol?
charlietheginger Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 sounds to me like she wants What her relationship is lacking... attention drama emotions She prob finds the op boring Non eventfull and her way of Controlling him is by wanting a tattoo He will bitch and moan She will consult her girlfriends They will tell her to do what she Wants... Hence argument stirs He talks she talks She talks to friends more She secretly likes the drama And attention from the op And her girlfriends.... They will have sex make up Argue have sex makeup best thing is tell her to get the tattoo Use reverse psychology .. By telling her yes get it she prob Wont even want it anymore..
pcplod Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 oddly, my bf and i disagree about this too. i am 38 (he's 48) and neither of us have a tat. i want one though. he also says he'd break it off if i did that because he thinks it reflects upon my maturity level and that maybe i'm not done growing yet. my opinion? it's my body and can do it if i want. your gf has that same right. does her heart change because she gets a tat? does she become someone different? absolutely not. she'll be the same person she was an hour before, but with a little something extra. my mom got her first tat at age 75, a few months ago... so at whatever stage in life someone wants to do it - don't judge, and be supportive. if it's a phase ... it'll pass anyway newmoon I had to smile at your post. Your older boyfriend in not being able to cope with your independence of mind is telling YOU that you need to grow up?! It's HIM that needs to grow up. Are you making plans to leave him? If he wants to try to blackmail you into coercion by threatening to leave, when is he going to use it again and over which trivial issue that is frankly none of his business. Was there any smell that the rot was beginning to set in before this ultimatum? I'll bet there was, if you look back on it. I think you tossed a test his way. Result: TOTAL FAIL.
Eclypse Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 honestly.. in a nutshell. If you broke up with her because of immature sheepish behavior, fine- I can understand that. But for a tattoo, I think you're the weirdo. some of the comparison such as "SS/Swastika" tattoos are absolutely retarded as they are in no comparison to the tattoo at hand. some of the stupidity on here actually stirs me. Eclypse, look up "analogy" in the dictionary, and read it like 20 times, because you're not doing it right. Again, OP, do her a favor and break up with her, she can do better by finding someone less judgmental. And then you can find your little blank unscathed canvas that is apparently so important to you. Then you don't have to worry about your conditioned and check-listed love. Errr... so what he finds attractive doesn't matter? Some people are greatly turned off by tattoos, isn't he allowed that right? That analogy is completely accurate. Most people would be very turned off by swastika nipple piercings. So if your partner decides to get this particular body modification knowing how you feel about it, what does that say about their feelings for you? That's how some people feel about tattoos in general. Why are you so hung up about this? How many tats do you have? You have to accept the fact that not everyone will be attracted to it. It doesn't make one any less shallow for not liking tattoos than not digging fat people, goths, short men etc. Everyone has their own preference, and for the OP that preference is for artwork to be on a canvas and not on the skin. For me personally, tattoos are a huge turn off. I can't explain why. It's nothing personal against the person, but it just kills sexual attraction. I find it funny you call him judgemental. Would you still call him judgemental if she decided to shave her hair or gain 100 pounds?
Eclypse Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 You compared your gf's dislike of drunkenness to the OPs dislike of tattoos. A tattoo never got behind the wheel of a car and killed anyone, or ruined a family, or beat a spouse. Afraid the analogy does fail here. We're not talking about differences in taste when it comes to not wanting a drunk around. Her tattoo will not affect his quality of life, no matter how much he dislikes them. If it does, he should seek counseling. Yes, I will admit that is not the most appropriate analogy. I should have thought better when I wrote it. I thought the nipple piercings were being referred to. The apotemnophilia analogy in my original post is probably the more accurate analogy, even if it is very extreme. Why are people so against OP not liking tattoos? Does no one have respect for what their partner wants anymore?
Emilia Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Her tattoo will not affect his quality of life, no matter how much he dislikes them. If it does, he should seek counseling. It will affect his quality of life if she has a large one going across her torso (I believe it's what she wants) and he won't want to stick his penis in her anymore because he finds it a turn off. The same way a large weight gain by either party would be a turn off. Though I really don't believe this is purely about the aesthetics of tattoos.
Emilia Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Honestly, who gives two sh**s what the OP wants. If he's so opposed to tattoos, he shouldn't get one. Well, his partner should. The same applies to her. She is prepared to break up with him over a tattoo. It isn't really different. I've had many men expressing this preference to me over the years and yes it tends to indicate a certain type of value system. ie it isn't just about ink, it's about what it represents to certain people. It's how the OP feels, there is nothing wrong with that. It sucks that clearly his girlfriend and him differ on the issue but I don't belive it's about control over her body 2
Eclypse Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Well, his partner should. The same applies to her. She is prepared to break up with him over a tattoo. It isn't really different. I've had many men expressing this preference to me over the years and yes it tends to indicate a certain type of value system. ie it isn't just about ink, it's about what it represents to certain people. It's how the OP feels, there is nothing wrong with that. It sucks that clearly his girlfriend and him differ on the issue but I don't belive it's about control over her body I agree with this. No one has control over another body. The other person just has to accept that their action could lead to the relationship being damaged.
tman666 Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 It is not so much the tattoo itself. Sometimes people with and without tattoos have different lifestyle, socioeconomic, and cultural values. Life just doesn't make much sense unless we put everyone into their little boxes, huh Pierre? 3
Emilia Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Life just doesn't make much sense unless we put everyone into their little boxes, huh Pierre? I know what you mean but I think that everyone has boxes and everyone's are different. People are bugged by different things and tattoos are quite visible so they speak louder than others.
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