Why are so many posts here trying to predict the behaviour of the AP?

November 20, 2012

I get that people often need to hear some home truths, and I do this myself, but I'm just wondering why so much of the conversation here is about trying to predict what an AP will do or has done? For me, the issue was me, what I will do, what I should do, what my options are....nobody knows the future and trying to predict it seems counter productive and likely to lead to endless analysis about something nobody really knows. Sometimes it seems like a gambling addiction...I bet he/she never did/will/will not....

Just putting that out there...and wondering from all those long term posters who've been through it all...is trying to predict the future for others really the best way to figure out what to do and how to do it?

November 20, 2012

I don't see what you are speaking of...but maybe I am not looking for it either. IMO what you might call prediction is really looking at a more than likely conclusion. Certain behaviors yield particular outcomes. If you pour gas on a fire...more than likely you will get an explosion. If you pour salt in a wound...the feeling will be unpleasant. Simple really.

I'm not talking about trying to predict your own behaviours' outcome, or even analysing the AP's behaviour towards the poster, I talking about people trying to predict AP behaviours with their SO. What's the point? Isn't it maybe better to focus on what the poster is doing and feeling than try to predict what some unknown person has or hasn't / will or won't do?

It's a genuine question, I'm not trying to be smart here, I've had great comments and support from some people here.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Henni

November 20, 2012

People with a lot of life experience notice patterns and commonalities in human behavior and, over time, connect certain patterns of actions and words with commonly experienced conclusions. For those of us with experience participating in and/or observing infidelity, it's similar. The more one experiences, the more commonalities and inferences which can be drawn.

That said, something I did learn from our psychologist was the value of walking the path with an open mind, not projecting the outcome. Focus on the steps, the choices, and the consequences, accepting each step along the path. Where it ends is where it ends.

November 20, 2012

I wasn't trying to be smart either. It is the way I see it. You did ask for long time posters....right?

You talked about outcomes of behaviours, that's not what I mean, I mean predicting another's behaviours, like whether or not they've really told their wife, whether or not they really haven't slept with their wife etc. etc. Different thing to outcomes of known behaviours.

November 20, 2012

People with a lot of life experience notice patterns and commonalities in human behavior and, over time, connect certain patterns of actions and words with commonly experienced conclusions. For those of us with experience participating in and/or observing infidelity, it's similar. The more one experiences, the more commonalities and inferences which can be drawn.

That said, something I did learn from our psychologist was the value of walking the path with an open mind, not projecting the outcome. Focus on the steps, the choices, and the consequences, accepting each step along the path. Where it ends is where it ends.

Exactly, I agree with the psychologist.

November 20, 2012

It's more about raising the question in the poster's mind that just because the AP says something, it doesn't mean it's true. It's been known to happen.

Nobody can predict, but it's fair to say hey you might want to make sure he did indeed tell her or hey there are MM out there who play the sexless separate bedrooms card when it's not true. We all want to believe MM while the affair is going on - he couldn't be lying to us when our connection is so strong. Yet, when the dust settles, things can look a little bit different.

November 20, 2012

I get that people often need to hear some home truths, and I do this myself, but I'm just wondering why so much of the conversation here is about trying to predict what an AP will do or has done? For me, the issue was me, what I will do, what I should do, what my options are....nobody knows the future and trying to predict it seems counter productive and likely to lead to endless analysis about something nobody really knows. Sometimes it seems like a gambling addiction...I bet he/she never did/will/will not....

Just putting that out there...and wondering from all those long term posters who've been through it all...is trying to predict the future for others really the best way to figure out what to do and how to do it?

Read older threads and you'll see a lot of it. "He's lying!" "He'll never leave!" "They all say that - your situation is textbook! It will all end in tears when he throws you in front of the bus!"

And then... He doesn't. He leaves. He wasn't lying. But instead of admitting they were wrong, oh no, they simply move on to their next victim, and if the "success story" ever points out that they got it wrong in her case, she's told, "your case is different!", quite forgetting that just earlier they'd insisted her situation was just like all the others.

It seems so much of their identity is caught up in having to insist they are right, and being completely unable to accept (never mind acknowledge) when they are wrong. Pretty sad, but there you go.

November 20, 2012

Because human experiences teach us to look for patterns and commonalities.

And affairs are strikingly similar. There's a joke that there's a script. Except it's not really a joke, because they tend to follow very common pathways. ( there's even a book about affairs titled The Script, lol)

Will every affair be the exact same? No, of course not. Will the vast majority of them follow a similar pattern?

That's been my experience readings way too many books, and being on many many forums. Even sitting in marriage counseling and watching the therapist complete sentences for my wayward spouse- because she had literally seen it all before.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Decorative

November 20, 2012

Read older threads and you'll see a lot of it. "He's lying!" "He'll never leave!" "They all say that - your situation is textbook! It will all end in tears when he throws you in front of the bus!"

And then... He doesn't. He leaves. He wasn't lying.

Those cases are few and far between, and of those that DO leave they often aren't, as in the case of SG, at ALL who they pretended to be during the A.

November 20, 2012

And then... He doesn't. He leaves. He wasn't lying. But instead of admitting they were wrong, oh no, they simply move on to their next victim, and if the "success story" ever points out that they got it wrong in her case, she's told, "your case is different!", quite forgetting that just earlier they'd insisted her situation was just like all the others.

And how often does this happen?

I certainly don't think anyone can know with absolute certainty what will happen for anyone, I personally never act like I know this, but as carhill and others have said, living in this world, we do become adept at seeing patterns and commonalities and being able to accurately make "predictions" of most likely outcomes. Since being here, I can't think of any story that shocked me, in terms of what I thought would happen and what did actually happen. My own predictions, whether voiced or just what I silently observed, usually seem to be about right. Nevertheless, I personally don't claim to know without a shadow of a doubt what will happen, and I don't think most people think they do, but you advise based on what seems to be the likely thing. My own posting style personally isn't like what you've said but I do recognize it in some posters lol.

The example you've given, I think people may be going overboard if they try to say they know definitively that xyz is what will occur; but, it also brings to fore the idea of patterns and the reality that there really aren't as many OW whose MM leave to be with them, certainly such stories are indeed few and far between on here. As I said in another thread, I can enumerate the posters who I know this is their situation, yet for the people who it is absolutely not the case and where the "usual predictions" are true, the number is far greater, such that I can't possibly name them, as it is such a large number.

I do think some people might not pay attention to a story and simply want to say it won't work likewise some other people don't seem to read the story either and just want to say "Don't listen to these bitter rOW and bitter BSs". That's a problem. But for the most part, I see less people yelling predictions of how exactly it will crash and burn or work out, but rather based on the story give the likely outcome or sometimes the advice isn't about an outcome at all.

Edited November 20, 2012 by MissBee

November 20, 2012

AND those on LS who carry on about how "yes, they DO leave!" are a minute portion of the entirety of people who have posted on this forum about their A.

This is true.

I think of the portion of posters who are more sympathetic towards As the breakdown seems to be:

Current OW --- i.e. MM did not leave obviously hence still an A

fOW who are sympathetic towards As who in their As the MM also did not leave.

Then the smallest portion of the group seems to be the fOW who are now currently married to or in an open A with the MM and perhaps some who were with them but it didn't work out.

November 21, 2012

If I'm trying to Guess what my soulmate , the love of my life, the One will do or decide...especially when it effects the rest of my life...if I'm guessing, asking, wondering.....it's because they are a stranger to me.

November 21, 2012

OW who "get their man" got him because the wife was done with him - no matter what the MM says. If he really wanted the OW to begin with, he wouldn't have had an affair and waited until Dday (or several Ddays) to "leave." Or they "get their man" by giving an ultimatum or breaking things off.

Getting the MM by default is hardly a "success story."

And then those "success stories" turn into nightmares when the former OW-turned wife/girlfriend come to the boards as . . . betrayed wives/girlfriends. Many of these men got caught boinking . . . wait for it . . . . . . . .the EX-WIFE.

This post seems to assume that no man ever genuinely wants a divorce or falls out of love with someone and in love with someone else, and acts on it with honour as much as they can. That's simply not my experience of men, as friends, as brothers and in relationships. I'm very sorry if that's your experience of men, I can only say that I very much like and respect men in general, and know that the majority in my life are honourable. I could be unlucky and meet mindless, predictable idiots as you suggest, but so far, I've never been attracted to men like that.

November 21, 2012

So many posters come here saying "Does he really love me?" "Will he leave?" "Will he pick me?" "Why does he stay with "her"?"

That's why you see so many 'predictions'.

So many former OW update and tell us that the MM never did tell his wife, he never stopped sleeping with his wife, he threw the OW under the bus and ran over her when the affair was discovered. Very few come back and say "YAY - he left and every word he told me was the God's honest truth and we are happy together".

Heck, many former OW come back and update that after the OW ended the affair, the MM moved on to a new OW and the former OW wonders why he didn't pick back up with her.

Many of us see new posters, same story...over and over and over. Names change, length of marriage changes, many times it is an "older" guy and a "young" woman... but really, its very "textbook" even down to the words said (and if you don't believe me - ask the former OW here if they have ever read a story where there were more similar words/actions versus no similar words/actions. Read the posts - so many former OW say "I could have written your post word for word...the MM I was seeing said the exact same thing".

In my OP, my question wasn't whether the predictions are correct or not, or why people wonder what their AP is doing, both of which seem to be answered in your post. My question was rather, why do all these people rush to predict unknown behaviours of non posting AP in other people's stories? What are they getting out of it? Why rush to tell people they are textbook and this and this will happen, and all of their experiences have been had before etc. etc.? What do you hope to achieve with that? Surely with such predictive powers, you might also predict that these comments won't change anything or help the situation? Or do they? For me, the important thing for anyone in this difficult situation is to focus on what you can control, and not on what you can't.

November 21, 2012

I get that people often need to hear some home truths, and I do this myself, but I'm just wondering why so much of the conversation here is about trying to predict what an AP will do or has done? For me, the issue was me, what I will do, what I should do, what my options are....nobody knows the future and trying to predict it seems counter productive and likely to lead to endless analysis about something nobody really knows. Sometimes it seems like a gambling addiction...I bet he/she never did/will/will not....

Just putting that out there...and wondering from all those long term posters who've been through it all...is trying to predict the future for others really the best way to figure out what to do and how to do it?

AP's and affairs follow a basic script. Some go outside the line, but there is much in common with many many affairs, this is why it becomes predictable, one person tells their story and another says "Wow, that could be me and my AP!" Etc..etc..

November 21, 2012

In my OP, my question wasn't whether the predictions are correct or not, or why people wonder what their AP is doing, both of which seem to be answered in your post. My question was rather, why do all these people rush to predict unknown behaviours of non posting AP in other people's stories? What are they getting out of it? Why rush to tell people they are textbook and this and this will happen, and all of their experiences have been had before etc. etc.? What do you hope to achieve with that? Surely with such predictive powers, you might also predict that these comments won't change anything or help the situation? Or do they? For me, the important thing for anyone in this difficult situation is to focus on what you can control, and not on what you can't.

last time I checked- you are freely choosing to post on an Internet forum about your current situation. In such places, people give their experiences. They share their knowledge. They offer books, suggestions, and what they have learned along the way.

That's why you are reading what you are reading. Because it's the reflection of the vast majority of experience. It's not an absolute, but it's the overwhelming majority.

You came here looking for something. perhaps you wanted only an echo chamber for your thoughts. That isn't going to happen on here.

November 21, 2012

I'm going to risk a torrent of anger here and say - affairs hurt the betrayed, if they find out. If they don't find out, but the SO becomes distant, well, they were already doing that by having an affair in the first place.

Telling the truth is very important in healthy relationships. I think most relationships are in very serious trouble or already dead if an affair happens and the BS is in the dark for any significant amount of time. It means there is no loyalty there, no feeling of being a team.

It might spare the BS not to tell them about the affair, particularly if divorce is anyway happening or the MM/MW intends to play out a role and continue to be married in name for the kids or comfort or finances, all valid reasons for some i'm sure.

Affairs change the dynamic at home. You have not been a betrayed spouse- so you don't understand the issue, but it happens.

You should read the book Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass. It explains all three aspects of an affair- wayward spouse, betrayed wife, and the affair partner . And affair partner who thinks the wife hasn't been harmed simply because she hasn't been straight up informed of the affair is wrong. In most cases- the betrayed spouse is trying to figure out what the heck is going on, why his or her reality is being twisted, and who the part time alien dressed as their spouse is.

Every person deserves the truth of their own life. They deserve to know sexual health consequences and mental health consequences. And it's callous and cold to suggest otherwise.

November 21, 2012

I'm going to risk a torrent of anger here and say - affairs hurt the betrayed, if they find out. If they don't find out, but the SO becomes distant, well, they were already doing that by having an affair in the first place.

Telling the truth is very important in healthy relationships. I think most relationships are in very serious trouble or already dead if an affair happens and the BS is in the dark for any significant amount of time. It means there is no loyalty there, no feeling of being a team.

It might spare the BS not to tell them about the affair, particularly if divorce is anyway happening or the MM/MW intends to play out a role and continue to be married in name for the kids or comfort or finances, all valid reasons for some i'm sure.

Also? You may want to read up on affair dynamics, too.

An unhappy marriage is not the usual cause of an affair. A broken spouse usually is. Actually- when you read Pittman, Vaughn, Glass and others- you'll learn that the cheating partner is usually the partner receiving more in their marriage, the over benefitted partner. And the marriage is usually not the problem, though I understand thoroughly why an AP would want to believe that it is.

November 21, 2012

For you....that is the most important part of your post. What an AP or WS for that matter can control....they usually don't. They find a way to slide past those things that will cost them some pain at the expense of someone else's.

What does one hope to achieve by saying the things you stated. These comments actually do change things for.... some people. Reading others stories changes things....for some people. The predictive nature of having seen it before many times do change things....for some people. Again, maybe not for you....but for some people.

Ok, I can accept that for some people this helps. I still feel that focussing on what someone may or may not have done or will do is only one option though, there are others, and I wonder why they don't get brought out so much.

November 21, 2012

You've participated in a lot of successful marital therapy with infidelity, have you now?

LOL

But please- try and make an issue of that. Go ahead. She did not tell him what to think- she stopped him from lying. He would look at her incredulously at times and say " how did you know that?!?l
".

No, I've never been a betrayed spouse and I've never needed marital therapy. That doesn't mean I don't know anything about how psychologists train professionally though, and what the theory and practise guidelines of the APA are. You should be under the same 'rules' you dish out - i.e. you hear my opinion if you're on an open forum. There are reasons why I know the practise guidelines of various forms of therapy, and it's not because I've been through as much therapy, books or websites for marital problems as you claim to have. If your therapists tactic worked then great, get over the fact that it's controversial - that's all.

November 21, 2012

If I'm trying to Guess what my soulmate , the love of my life, the One will do or decide...especially when it effects the rest of my life...if I'm guessing, asking, wondering.....it's because they are a stranger to me.

Comical but serious as a judge.

It's really that simple though. I've said, if I'm in a relationship where I need perfect strangers to tell me what he's thinking/feeling/doing about our relationship and if every interaction needs dissection and the input of others...then really...what kind of a relationship is that? That alone tells you that something is way off.

To the original question, life is about making intelligent guesses sometimes based on the facts and experience. From the facts and experiences I've had and seen, most people in relationships that require constant dissection and interrogation and pretty much every few weeks you're on LS about it, don't fare well...it usually takes no great psychic revelation to figure out some of these situations. One needn't be that astute at all to see where most are headed.

I believe that anything is possible but that isn't the same as it being probable. It depends on the actual question or concern brought to the table though and I respond based on the circumstances presented. Some OW have questions that do require predicting, the "will he leave" etc type stuff and some questions aren't really about that. I can recall 2 situations, where based on what was said, and the mindset of the posters, I did tell them it seemed hopeful. They never did return, so maybe things did work out for them? Other situations seem pretty damned and I see no reason to "give hope" if I truly see nothing hopeful about it. I'm honest with posters here as I would be with friends. I don't give false hope. If I'm wrong and your situation turns out well, then I'm more than thrilled for you; but, I'd be remiss to believe you were making a mistake but instead of saying so, I focus on the slim chance. As I've said, most situations I've seen in my time here, the ones that provided constant updates or came back after a while, they more or less turned out as it seemed they would. Hardly any made some stark turn that was different from what I predicted in my head when I kept abreast of the happenings.

November 21, 2012

Comical but serious as a judge.

It's really that simple though. I've said, if I'm in a relationship where I need perfect strangers to tell me what he's thinking/feeling/doing about our relationship and if every interaction needs dissection and the input of others...then really...what kind of a relationship is that? That alone tells you that something is way off.

To the original question, life is about making intelligent guesses sometimes based on the facts and experience. From the facts and experiences I've had and seen, most people in relationships that require constant dissection and interrogation and pretty much every few weeks you're on LS about it, don't fare well...it usually takes no great psychic revelation to figure out some of these situations. One needn't be that astute at all to see where most are headed.

I believe that anything is possible but that isn't the same as it being probable. It depends on the actual question or concern brought to the table though and I respond based on the circumstances presented. Some OW have questions that do require predicting, the "will he leave" etc type stuff and some questions aren't really about that. I can recall 2 situations, where based on what was said, and the mindset of the posters, I did tell them it seemed hopeful. They never did return, so maybe things did work out for them? Other situations seem pretty damned and I see no reason to "give hope" if I truly see nothing hopeful about it. I'm honest with posters here as I would be with friends. I don't give false hope. If I'm wrong and your situation turns out well, then I'm more than thrilled for you; but, I'd be remiss to believe you were making a mistake but instead of saying so, I focus on the slim chance. As I've said, most situations I've seen in my time here, the ones that provided constant updates or came back after a while, they more or less turned out as it seemed they would. Hardly any made some stark turn that was different from what I predicted in my head when I kept abreast of the happenings.

That all seems reasonable to me, MissBee, and I've seen those posts where people ask 'will he leave?' etc., and thought, is it really helping to to ask perfect strangers for some kind of crystal ball prediction? I'm not saying there's something wrong with it period, I just can't relate to it, and I found it interesting enough to ask people about. I think focussing on the fact that chances are slim with the success of any relationship can make sense too - if the person is prone to lots of false hope. There's a difference between that, as I've seen in your posts, and other posts that state 'it's going to be like this - he's never going to leave EVER! he's lying to you / still sleeping with his wife/ hasn't told his wife', that's all statements of fact, as though these people were the authority on not only the poster's life, but the WS's life too. Just - what do they hope to gain by that? Perhaps it's just people venting, I dunno.

November 21, 2012

Some of us mean old BS's actually hope to save OW/OM pain.

And that's what they hope to gain.

Amazing, isn't it?

November 21, 2012

No, I've never been a betrayed spouse and I've never needed marital therapy. That doesn't mean I don't know anything about how psychologists train professionally though, and what the theory and practise guidelines of the APA are. You should be under the same 'rules' you dish out - i.e. you hear my opinion if you're on an open forum. There are reasons why I know the practise guidelines of various forms of therapy, and it's not because I've been through as much therapy, books or websites for marital problems as you claim to have. If your therapists tactic worked then great, get over the fact that it's controversial - that's all.

I see LS as the political arena. People all over the spectrum, the loudest voices are sometimes on the extreme. A dialogue is simply not possible between any two opinions at any time.

The people who see marriage as a goal in itself, and the most important thing is to cross the finish line (death) follow their own script, with their own preferred marriage therapy. They like it that way, it works for them, I just wish they didn't push it on everyone's throats, especially to evil OW or fOW here. It's very predicatable though (pun intended) that they are so inflexible and pushy. Their stories about recovering from infidelity are carbon copies. Common thread the WS was a lost good person who made one regretable mistake, the AP is evil and deplorable, the BS best spouse ever for being so forgiving and saving the family. The M was not the problem etc. etc. etc.

November 21, 2012

i think the statements about what is going on in the married person's marriage are probably correct...about 90% of the time...is it really being helpful to sugar coat that for someone who comes looking for help?

as for what you say about posts focusing too much on the behavior of the married person...to a certain extent, I agree. The other man/woman can't control what the married person will do, but they can control their own behavior...the problem becomes some many on here use statements like " i didn't mean for this to happen but it did" or " I can't help myself" or " I can't stop myself" or " the heart wants what t wants" ( or any of the many other variations on this theme...

I do agree that it may be more helpful for an other man/woman to control the things they can control ( their own behavior) , but some who are hurting because they allow the married person to hurt them don't see that...they stay, believe the words even when the action shows something different...sometimes someone needs someone else to point of the obvious truth...they are too close to the situation to really see it for what it is

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