is this verbal or emotional abuse?

[saralynn]

how does one distinguish between verbal and emotional abuse versus when someone is just mad at you and blowing off steam to vent?

 

i am just not sure what to make of this boyfriend and how he deal with anger when he is mad with me.

 

we live together and i am not the best house keeper but i do not think our apartment is dirty but a little messy and i agree to that.

 

i also have a niece who calls and emails me alot and only talks about her self and her problems and nothing else and never asks how i am or anything about my life but i am use to that with her so i blow it off most of the time but i do comment on it once in a while to my boyfriend.

 

so last night he told me that i am right behind my niece that i have so much free time that the house should be clean and dinner on the table!

 

i told him i am not june cleaver and this is the 2000's and that that those types of women do not exist anymore and if he can find one like that then he should just go for it then.

 

he was very hurtful to me and i was in tears when he was saying all this to me. he says that i need to "toughen up" so when he says things like this i don't go off crying.

 

sometimes i think this is verbal or emotional abuse but am not sure. can someone tell me the difference between them cuz honestly i do not know.

[seahorse]

Hi,

 

Well, well, I thought male chauvaunist pigs had gone out with the millenniumm, seems I was wrong.

 

Do you do paid work? Are you earning similar money? Are you equal partners in this relationship? Does he cook? Can he look after himself?

 

seahorse

[ziggue]

Is he always like this with you?

 

Don't think it is. If he is going off at you for no apparent reason. All the time, Trying to control you by what you wear, name calling, who you can or can not hang out with. You feel like walking on eggshells around him all the time.

 

Those are a few singns of verbal abuse.

[RowanRavyn]

If this is recurrent, then I would say it is emotionally abusive. If you go to Google and do a search on verbal/emotional abuse, you will find some of the answers you are looking for.

 

If you are home all day, and he is working there is something to be said for "pulling your share of the load."

 

If he is forcing you to stay home, making unreasonable demands, nothing you do is right, and he is controling all of the money then chances are you are in an abusive relationship. He doesn't have to beat you daily to be an abuser.

 

I will also advise you to check out a local womens shelter they will be able to answer a lot of your questions.

[saralynn]

i work out of our house and i do puppy training so yes i am home alot. i am just not domesticated at all! i can walk right by dirty dishes and think notihng of them whereas he has to pick them up.

 

not that we have dirty dishes sitting around but just as an example you know? he works hard and comes home and wants dinner and the house cleaned and i am just not into that.

 

i pay my share around the house and keep it fairly tidy in my own mind but to him it is never clean herein lies the problems.

 

so it builds up and then he explodes with such painful things to say that i cry and die inside.

 

they are mostly said out of frustration and anger on his part but does that qualify as abuse when it is out of anger and frustration?

 

when i get equally mad at him, i do not talk to him the way he talks to me.

[Samson]

i pay my share around the house and keep it fairly tidy in my own mind but to him it is never clean herein lies the problems

 

I'm getting the picture of someone who sees a lot going on "in [your] own mind."

 

 

Has it ever ocurred to you, Saralynn, that you haven't the faintest clue as to what your "fair share" is? Do you really expect your husband to be happy to return from work to find no evidence that you've been doing anything but eating bon-bon's and watching soap operas all day (regardless of whether or not this is truely what you've been doing)?

 

Why not get a maid, watch her clean. Maybe you'll pick up a few tricks, then try them out. If he's still ranting after you do this, then its his problem.

[saralynn]

samson, i take what you said very seriously as this could be a problem. we have been raised so differently that to him and to me clean are like opposites.

 

what i think is clean he does not, what he thinks is cluttered, i do not. he gets angry and goes off on me and it only breeds hurt in my heart.

 

i feel so rebellious afterwards that the last thing i want to do is clean even more! i try to comunicate this to him that his approach is a very negative affect versus talking to me nicely and calmly and trying to come to some agreement on things.

 

i find his remarks more hurtful and they make me just want to slap him instead. why can't he use some dammed tact instead of insulting me and hurting me so much?

 

he has not ever tried that as of yet! it would be such a nice change to have someone talk to me about they want instead of barking demands and insults my way.

 

i want us to be happy. i do not want to always feel that i am not good enough but his words have made me feel like a low life sloppy butt and i feel so ashamed and i do not like this feeling and yet i do not think i should feel this way either by his remarks.

 

when i clean the house and i know it is very clean and he says how nice it looks then i feel that he thinks i did it because he has made his point and i did it out of obedeince to him.

 

i hate that feeling!!!! i want to clean it out of love for him and because it is our house, yet i do not see it as dirty the way he does. so that lies within the problem too.

[Samson]

when i clean the house and i know it is very clean and he says how nice it looks then i feel that he thinks i did it because he has made his point and i did it out of obedeince to him.

 

OK, so the problem is not that you don't know what to do, or that he doesn't respond positively when you do clean this way......................The problem is:

 

how you feel about what he thinks.

 

 

Now Saralynn, by now you should know what simple creatures us guys are.

 

If he SAYS it looks NICE then this is what he MEANS.

 

It is highly unlikely he is toying with you in some way to make you feel subordinate. If this was true then he would never be satisfied. No one controls how you will feel...............except yourself.

 

 

That being said, it seems that a warning might be in order:

 

Do NOT decide that you will play a little head game with him that will satisfy your feeling (quid pro quo).

[FolderWife]

One of your boyfriend's needs is for his woman to clean house...that's how you show affection in his eyes. Maybe his mom cleaned house all the time, so he thinks that if a woman loves him, she'll clean, and if she doesn't love him, she won't clean.

 

It's irrational, but it may be how he feels. So you don't clean, and he feels unloved. Rather than figuring himself out, and deciding why he's feeling hurt, he gets angry. Angry is an easy emotion. You don't have to figure yourself out to be angry. If you are hurt, there has to be a reason. "I'm hurt that you don't clean" Doesn't make any sense, because that's no reason for any rational person to be hurt, right? "I'm angry because you don't clean" is easier understood, because he wants it clean, and he's the boss! So you're going to clean whether you want to or not, and since you weren't obediant, he's going to call you lazy and make you feel bad, so you'll clean.

 

Now, you clean the house, and he says it looks good, so you think, "He threw a fit on me, right before I cleaned, so now he thinks that every time he throws a fit, I'm going to clean? I don't think so!" So you purposely don't clean, to show him that his tantrums don't work. You're also being stubborn, to show him that he's not the boss of you.

 

You are both trying to change each other, and you're doing it wrong! He doesn't know why it hurts him for you not to clean, and you don't even SEE that you've hurt him...you just see that he's trying to make you do something that you don't want to do!

 

I've recently learned something from myself. I've learned that when my husband hurts me, I want to hurt him back so he doesn't hurt me any more. THAT DON'T WORK!

 

See, you've hurt him by not cleaning house, because in his irrational mind, you don't love him, or you'd clean house. So since you've hurt him, he's going to hurt you, so you'll know how it feels to be hurt, and you'll stop hurting him...does that make sense? If someone slaps you, you slap them back, right? You want them to know that they've hurt you, so they way you show them that they've hurt you, is to do to them what they did to you. So he's feeling hurt, so he purposely hurts you, so you'll understand. You don't understand, though, because you don't see any rational reason for him to be hurt, so how can you not hurt him, when you don't even know what you did to hurt him in the first place!

 

My husband used to get angry when I wouldn't do laundry. I HATE being ordered to do chores...especially if I'm reading or watching TV or something. So I'd get angry for him bugging me. His mom didn't take care of him. She didn't cook, she didn't clean, and then when he was 12, she left him, his brother, and his dad for another man.

 

So my husband equates not cleaning and taking care of him, with not loving him. So if I don't clean, he feels like I don't love him. He loves me, so it hurts and scares him when I don't clean, because he loves me, but he thinks that I don't love him.

 

I've learned that when my husband gets angry, he's usually hurt or frightened. I've learned to read his expressions. Sometimes he'll yell, but he'll look like he's ready to cry Sometimes he'll yell, but he has this afraid look. Sometimes he yells, and he looks angry. I've learned that he's never angry at me, because I don't do anything to be angry over. Recently, we bounced a few checks, which added up to HUGE overdraft fees, and he got angry, and he LOOKED angry...but it wasn't at me, it was at the situation.

 

What you have to realize, is that when you don't clean, your boyfriend thinks you don't love him. That hurts him, so he tries to hurt you back, so you'll quit hurting him.

 

However, that HAS to be confusing to you, since you have NO IDEA why your boyfriend is purposely hurting you, and it hurts you, because you think you are being abused.

 

He is abusing you.

 

Abuse is when you say or do something with the SOLE PURPOSE of hurting someone. If he were being rational, he'd talk it out with you, and you two would agree on something. Some arguments are good, because you conclude a way to fix the situation, wherein both parties can be satisfied. Abuse is when you try to force the other person to do what YOU want by hurting them in some way.

 

Now, your boyfriend's irrational thinking that you don't love him because you don't clean isn't your problem to fix, it's his problem. If you want to stay with him, however, I doubt he's going to change, because he doesn't even know he has a problem, and probably wouldn't admit to it, even if you pointed it out to him, so you're just going to have to accept it.

 

You can feel horrible every time he blows up at you over nothing, or you can say, "He's irrational, but I still love him." and you can feel sorry for him. Maybe when he's throwing a fit, don't defend yourself, just walk over to him, kiss him on the cheek, and then go do whatever he's throwin a fit over. Then, once you're finished, say, "I'd appreciate it if you'd ask nicely next time."

[sarahlynn]

very interesting stuff from both samson and monday, btw i LOVE the cat picture, is it your cat? too funny just the same!

about this not feeling loved that you think he might be feeling. actually he has told me before that he feels taken advantage

of but i think he knows that i love him but he feels used at times.

 

i do not use him at all not knowingly by any means but i can see how he might think that way or feel that way. my problem is

that when he explodes it only makes me rebellious to NOT want to clean.

 

mind you our house is NOT dirty. I clean it up real good every other week or so and in the mean time i pick it up alot. it is only

us two here so it does not get that bad like he acts like it does.

 

but you know when he goes off on me yeah the last thing i want to do is ANYTHING for him and i mean ANYTHING! i do not even

want to sit by him or be in the same room with him and i will with draw for the day into our bedroom and do what he calls pout

when in fact i am hurting from his words that he says i am too sensitive from.

 

you know today twice he left a plate on the table with his left over food because he expects me to just clean it up since i am here anyways.

i left them both right where he left them determined not to put them in the sink.

 

i finally did when the flys came in the opened back door. i did tell him that he needs to just put his plates in the sink and he said well i thought since you

were there anyways that you would do it for me.

 

he is not a lazy person by any means and only does this now and then but it is one of them things that irks me to the point that i refuse to

pick up after him when i know he does it with the intentions for me to do something around the house just because i am home does not make me his slave, right?

 

so maybe i need a lot of work psychologically because i do not enjoy feeling bossed around indirectly or controlled indirectly and when he has these fits now and then and says these things to me, it totally back fires anyways and i rebel and then i hate myself for it.

 

last week i was very sick with this stomach flu going around and i was incapacitated for a full week and he catered to my needs so sweetly and when i felt better he wanted me to run around for him and i did not want to go yet and he mistook it as my not wanting to help him after all he had done for me.

 

that really hurt because that was not even the case at all! so he said some really mean things then too. but this last incident really got under my skin.

[Thinkalot]

Just to add something extra here. My fiance gets really angry sometimes. Usually there's a reason, or I've been pushing him, or arguing or whatever. But when he gets to a certain point of anger, he mouths off at me, and says hurtful stuff, and swears and calls me names. I hate it, I cry I feel wounded. I know how yuk that can be.

 

But no...my fiance is not abusive...he just gets pushed so far and then explodes...and says stuff that releases his tension...which later on he does not mean. It still isn't right, and he says sorry etc...but it happens. I am learning to understand what triggers him...what I do which drives him to that point...and also to let some of the things he says in anger, go. Very hard...but I play my part in it. He of course tries to avoid going there too.

 

I also have OCD...and that has been abig part of the problem in the past...it's enough to drive anyone crazy.

 

Sometimes when people get to a certain point of frustration, tension, anger whatever, they blurt out stuff that makes them feel better at the time, which they later don't mean. Not good...but human.

 

That's different to a person who is always abusive for no apparent reason, always controlling, etc

[moimeme]

Monday has explained a common problem extremely well. People attach symbolism to their spouses' actions, often without even knowing it. However, he is going about his reaction all the wrong way. You two need to sit down calmly and discuss your differences and come to a common solution.

 

MarriageBuilders has a strategy for negotiating housework. Give it a try:

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5045_qa.html

[Libby]

I have lived verbally mentally and now physically abused for 22 yrs.If he controls every move,moey time,breaks things or hurts you that would be different.Now in the beginning he would come home looking to see what i hadnt done and id have to fight all night over it..Wactch for pattern.Or things get worse.makes remarks about you,what youve cooked or even if its not what he wanted turning over the table!..

[Thinkalot]

Libby...I am sorry you are in that situation...please look after yourself....leave the abusive situation!

[jordan77]

I read your story and I genuinely feel for you. I too have heard the words "toughen up" and it brings chills to my spine that there is someone else out there questioning their abuse. I too am still with the guy, but if I could do it all over again I would have left earlier. People who say "toughen up" when they insult you are both verbally and emotionaly abusive. I would guess that this is not an isolated incidence, but if I am wrong...beware, the worst is yet to come. Take it from a four year veteren in a less than ideal relationship...he will NEVER understand your feelings, respect you as an individual, or be compassionate when you need it. This may sound a bit harsh, but nearly everytime I am put down (and believe me I have been called every name in the book) and I start to get upset or cry, the only response I get is "toughen up"

[saralynn]

so what i am hearing from everyone is that i should be doing the housework to keep peace and since i have time obviously as well. that he wont change unless i do and that it could get worse?

 

you know i feel that in order to make him happy i just have to do what he wants. i know somewhere in my head that what he wants is really not that much; a clean house, a nice meal, some one to make love, we hardly make love anymore because i have hurt build up from these things that i cannot go to him for that but when i do he says such sweet things to me and tells me how much he misses us that way and it breaks my heart that it canot be that way all the time.

 

i wish i could shake this rebellious little brat out of me, then maybe, just maybe, i could do these things for the right reasons and we could get along. of course i wonder how long it would last?

 

only lasts as long as i succumb to his wishes then if i screw up again and revert back to old self it starts up again. i think of someone who smokes and no one notices when they quit and it could be weeks or more that they go without a cigarette then one day again they light one up and others say to them "oh you really should quit".

 

that is how i feel, no one would notice anyways. he only noticed when they are not present but not when they are present. i cleaned this whole house last week and he never noticed then came home the other day and the kitchen counter was messy and he got upset that i had "not done anything all day". bull crap i hadn't!

 

anyways you all have given me things to think upon and i am going to do just that and thanks much to every body.

[saralynn]

well we made love last night, first time in weeks and it did not even feel normal. maybe cause i am still holding onto some resentment and hurts from the other day?

 

that is the first time that i have ever felt that way towards him. it felt good and all but i felt like i would rather sleep then be doing this. i was not repulsed by any means but just something inside was nagging at me that i really did not care to be doing this.

 

i felt so guilty though because he was so happy and into it and i did a great job faking it on the inside but felt i betrayed myself on the inside but what else can one do, i wanted to keep the peace between us and i knew if i did not do it that he would think there was something else wrong still.

 

so today i am moody and sullen and he notices and asks me if i still love him and still want to be with him. i said yes to both but did not feel it fully in my heart but it broke my heart to feel that way too.

 

i just don't know what to do or how to get over this or what i need to even get over, this just really sucks you know?

[Samson]

so today i am moody and sullen and he notices and asks me if i still love him and still want to be with him. i said yes to both but did not feel it fully in my heart but it broke my heart to feel that way too.

 

i just don't know what to do or how to get over this or what i need to even get over, this just really sucks you know?

 

 

You know, Saralynn, I almost NEVER say this...........................................

 

I'm sure Moimeme can offer a bunch of website for fighting depression. I think you should be checked out for this problem

 

The guy's noticed your moodiness, and talked to you about it. This doesn't sound like an abusive monster

[moimeme]

This isn't about depression. This is two people who have not figured out how to communicate or to work together as a team. As Monday said, they feel hurt when they see what they believe to be slights and then, rather than problem-solve, they take out their resentments on each other.

 

Until they start communicating productively, this relationship will stumble along in this dysfunctional manner.

[Samson]

Right Moi, instead of noticing her mood and asking her about it he should have just said "get over it!"

 

Here I finally believe you have justification for your standard perscriptive pharmaceutical solution to all maritial evils and you don't think its worth the effort to post the countless links to websites dealing with depression.

 

It seems Saralynn has no monopoly on obstinance.

[RowanRavyn]

Here is a list of signs of emotional abuse (Its not mine, I got it off the web, but I can attest personally that they are true):

 

[color=red]Does he/she:

ignore your feelings?

disrespect you?

ridicule or insult you then tell you its a joke, or that you have no sense of humor?

ridicule your beliefs, religion, race, heritage or class?

withhold approval, appreciation or affection?

give you the silent treatment?

walk away without answering you?

criticize you, call you names, yell at you?

humiliate you privately or in public?

roll his or her eyes when you talk?

give you a hard time about socializing with your friends or family?

make you socialize (and keep up appearances) even when you don't feel well?

seem to make sure that what you really want is exactly what you won't get?

tell you you are too sensitive?

hurt you especially when you are down?

seem energized by fighting, while fighting exhausts you?

have unpredictable mood swings, alternating from good to bad for no apparent reason?

present a wonderful face to the world and is well liked by outsiders?

"twist" your words, somehow turning what you said against you?

try to control decisions, money, even the way you style your hair or wear your clothes?

complain about how badly you treat him or her?

threaten to leave, or threaten to throw you out?

say things that make you feel good, but do things that make you feel bad?

ever left you stranded?

ever threaten to hurt you or your family?

ever hit or pushed you, even "accidentally"?

seem to stir up trouble just when you seem to be getting closer to each other?

abuse something you love: a pet, a child, an object?

compliment you enough to keep you happy, yet criticize you enough to keep you insecure?

promise to never do something hurtful again?

harass you about imagined affairs?

manipulate you with lies and contradictions?

destroy furniture, punch holes in walls, break appliances?

drive like a road-rage junkie?

act immature and selfish, yet accuse you of those behaviors?

question your every move and motive, somehow questioning your competence?

interrupt you; hear but not really listen?

make you feel like you can't win? damned if you do, damned if you don't?

use drugs and/or alcohol involved? are things worse then?

incite you to rage, which is "proof" that you are to blame?

try to convince you he or she is "right," while you are "wrong?"

frequently say things that are later denied or accuse you of misunderstanding?

treat you like a sex object, or as though sex should be provided on demand regardless of how you feel?

 

 

[/color]

[RowanRavyn]

[color=red] You express your opinions less and less freely.

You find yourself walking on eggshells, careful of when and how to say something.

You long for that softer, more vulnerable part of your partner to emerge.

You find yourself making excuses for your partner's behavior.

You feel emotionally unsafe.

You feel its somehow not OK to talk with others about your relationship.

You hope things will change...especially through your love and understanding.

You find yourself doubting your memory or sense of reality.

You doubt your own judgment.

You doubt your abilities.

You feel vulnerable and insecure.

You are becoming increasingly depressed.

You feel increasingly trapped and powerless.

You have been or are afraid of your partner.

Your partner has physically hurt you, even once.

[/color]

[RowanRavyn]

http://www.ndvh.org/

 

This website also tells you how to clear your computer of traces that you have been investigating this subject. Just incase your partner gets snoopy. It will tell you where you can go in any state.

 

Please, please becareful and take care of yourself.

[Samson]

Wow RowanR,

 

Based on the criteria you've posted, nearly everyone I've ever come within 3 feet of has emotionally and verbally abused me (and then there are the multidude of harrassing phone calls, not to mention the meanies who have hurt my feelings..........................ON DISCUSSION BOARDS!).

 

Somehow, I seem to function without any medication and without a battery of counsellors, clinical psychologists, social workers, etc., managing my day to day activities.

[RowanRavyn]

Samson, my dear,

 

When a person is in the middle of an abusive relationship sometimes the extreme is needed to open their eyes. This does not apply to the thousands of casual relationships we encounter everyday. Some people are just a pain in the arse and lack the social skills to interact with others on any sort of accptable level for them I suggest a simple medical treatment called rectalcraniectomy .

 

You are a talented man, obviously with a thick skin how lucky that you need only yourself!!

 

Moimeme is right. Effective communication is the key, this has nothing to do with depression. Though...it certainly could LEAD to depression.

 

Not everything has a simple solution. Not everything can be fixed with a pill, or a therapy session. Bad habits that have been learned over a lifetime take time to get over. If you are lucky though, the catalist is simply noticing that someones behavior is unacceptable to YOU, and then YOU can walk away, sometimes with the help of one of those said treatments for a short period of time.

 

Self respect is such an important skill. ::winks at Moimeme:: Just like self love in all its varieties.