Hokie's Reckless Journey Into the PUA World...

[USMCHokie]

So I don't really have a whole lot going on for the next year or so, so I figured I could spend what little free time I have to focus on something...and I've never been a fan of the PUA industry or the methods, but after reading some random articles off MSN during some down time at work, I became slightly intrigued.

 

And many of you know that i prefer to view the world in black and white, as a balance of two extremes...so I figure, what the hell, what do I have to lose? What's the worst that could happen...? Why not completely change up the way I approach social interaction? Maybe I've been doing it wrong all along by "being myself"...if nothing else, this can be a social experiment and a learning experience. It's an approach that is completely foreign to me, so it might also be an educational challenge as well. I could possibly end up devoting the next few years of my life to becoming the douche I've always dreamt of being...

 

So I was intending for this thread to almost be a place for me to "blog" about my thoughts, questions, experiences, and the such. I'll spend the next couple months doing the "study" part of the process and come here to discuss the things I've read...then I'll let loose with reckless abandon in a very time-constrained environment in Australia, with my partner in crime, ES. Hopefully... Thats when I'll spill the beans as to whether I actually learned anything. When I get back from Australia, I'll probably spend my time on something a little more engaging, like arts and crafts.

 

So to start out, what resources would you recommend for someone starting out in this, whether online, print, etc....? Any other thoughts or recommendations...?

Edited November 19, 2012 by USMCHokie

[CarrieT]

so I figure, what the hell, what do I have to lose?

Your integrity.

 

 

Seriously, Hoke; I would have figure that you - more than anyone who has spent time on this site - would know how intelligent, thoughtful women really feel about and understand what a bunch of bullsh*t PUA antics really are.

 

I would have thought more of you, my friend!

 

Go ahead and explore. Then, in a year or so, I hope you will post how you realize it is hollow and shallow and the quality of women you are meeting just isn't up to snuff because of the PUA crap.

[MrCastle]

Hokie, I'm sure Who and a few others could point you in the direction of legit material in terms of ebooks and whatnot, I myself just joined a PUA about a year ago just to see what the fuss was about. Learned the bulk of my knowledge of game there. Guys who had already read all these different books, and gave you insight as to what worked, and what was total bull****. A lot of the trial and error was done for me just by reading some of their approach journals.

 

Anywho, the stuff I gathered, looking back on it, should have been common sense, but wasn't at the time to old nice guy me. Just a few highlights.

 

-Be willing to walk away at any point. Set boundaries for yourself in regards to what you'll tolerate from women. Once they cross that boundary, you have to be willing to walk. Not say "well, I'll give her one more chance" or "she's different, I'll let her play by a different set of rules". No. Never compromise your boundaries.

 

-Don't get too high or too low. Always be chill. Don't give a girl too much attention or make it too obvious you dig her, because she will use that to crush you into a fine powder. At the same time, don't get upset over rejections. There is no pussy shortage in the world. Girls go in and out of your life every day. Don't get hung up on one who doesn't dig you. Focus on the ones who do.

 

-Be interesting. This is another no brainer but still worth mentioning. Have a life outside of dating, something I believe you already know, and have. The more active and interesting you appear, the more they want you. It's just the way it is.

 

I'll post more if anything comes to me but basically the stuff I told you is pretty common sense and any man, pua or otherwise, should be using it. It took pua to wake me up and unplug me from the matrix, but I realized the stuff I use is stuff any successful man would use. No tricks, no sleaze, just very cut and dry stuff. Be confident, be charming, be willing to go no contact at a moment's notice if you feel the girl isn't worth your time.

[Taramere]

So I was intending for this thread to almost be a place for me to "blog" about my thoughts, questions, experiences, and the such. I'll spend the next couple months doing the "study" part of the process and come here to discuss the things I've read...then I'll let loose with reckless abandon in a very time-constrained environment in Australia, with my partner in crime, ES. Hopefully... Thats when I'll spill the beans as to whether I actually learned anything. When I get back from Australia, I'll probably spend my time on something a little more engaging, like arts and crafts.

 

So to start out, what resources would you recommend for someone starting out in this, whether online, print, etc....? Any other thoughts or recommendations...?

 

Is Australia really the place to try such things out? Australians are (as a generalisation, but one that most Aussies I've met live up to) fairly kick-ass and down to earth people. You'll be meeting a lot of the backpacker community of course, but I think most backpackers slide very easily into the down to earth Aussie mentality.

 

It's such a brilliant country with fantastically, friendly people, Hokie...why waste your limited time there trying out mind-f*cking PUA theories on them? Just be yourself, keep an open mind and I'm sure you'll have fun and meet lots of people without even trying.

[USMCHokie]

Is Australia really the place to try such things out? Australians are (as a generalisation, but one that most Aussies I've met live up to) fairly kick-ass and down to earth people. You'll be meeting a lot of the backpacker community of course, but I think most backpackers slide very easily into the down to earth Aussie mentality.

 

It's such a brilliant country with fantastically, friendly people, Hokie...why waste your limited time there trying out mind-f*cking PUA theories on them? Just be yourself, keep an open mind and I'm sure you'll have fun and meet lots of people without even trying.

 

I guess the first question that comes to mind is, what does it even mean to be "down to earth"...?

 

And as happy as I might be with "myself" and my personality, I've realized that being unassuming and modest doesn't really do much to expose that personality, or at least draw women to want to uncover the personality. I don't think I have the looks to prompt women to want to get to know me...so logically, I'd have to be the aggressor and give them a reason to want to get to know me. I.e., "force" my personality on them...

 

We always hear about how men should be more "confident," but how exactly does one do that? In the Marines, we use the purpose, method, and endstate to lay out a concept of operations. The purpose is the reason why, the method is how you do it, and the endstate is what you're left with. For most guys, the purpose is clear, to become better with women. Yet they are constantly advised to be more confident. I believe that confidence is an endstate, not a method. They are never given that method. Perhaps PUA is the method to reaching the desired endstate?

 

And I picked Australia because that's honestly the only social interaction I'll have for the next year...

[USMCHokie]

Your integrity.

 

 

Seriously, Hoke; I would have figure that you - more than anyone who has spent time on this site - would know how intelligent, thoughtful women really feel about and understand what a bunch of bullsh*t PUA antics really are.

 

I would have thought more of you, my friend!

 

Go ahead and explore. Then, in a year or so, I hope you will post how you realize it is hollow and shallow and the quality of women you are meeting just isn't up to snuff because of the PUA crap.

 

I always thought they were BS antics as well...but are they really BS...? Would an entire industry be built around BS (like organic food )...? I am beginning to have my doubts as to whether I was wrong about PUA...perhaps the BS isn't as BS as I thought...I mean, why would it "work" if it was fluff...?

 

I guess I'm more curious than anything else...or desperate...

[Kamille]

Doubt you'll get brainwashed into sudden misogyny so why not! I've read some of the books made for women (Why men marry bitches etc.) and learned a few things from them. Still don't think men love bitches. Rather think they like women who know how to set boundaries.

 

Have fun with it. And be respectful of yourself and others.

[Kamille]

I guess I'm more curious than anything else...or desperate...

 

Desperate is so not PUA.

[USMCHokie]

Desperate is so not PUA.

 

I haven't started yet...

[Bristolius]

I guess the first question that comes to mind is, what does it even mean to be "down to earth"...?

 

And as happy as I might be with "myself" and my personality, I've realized that being unassuming and modest doesn't really do much to expose that personality, or at least draw women to want to uncover the personality. I don't think I have the looks to prompt women to want to get to know me...so logically, I'd have to be the aggressor and give them a reason to want to get to know me. I.e., "force" my personality on them...

 

We always hear about how men should be more "confident," but how exactly does one do that? In the Marines, we use the purpose, method, and endstate to lay out a concept of operations. The purpose is the reason why, the method is how you do it, and the endstate is what you're left with. For most guys, the purpose is clear, to become better with women. Yet they are constantly advised to be more confident. I believe that confidence is an endstate, not a method. They are never given that method. Perhaps PUA is the method to reaching the desired endstate?

 

And I picked Australia because that's honestly the only social interaction I'll have for the next year...

 

That is extremely unclear. It's difficult to define and/or goes on forever. Can't it be more specific? Put your purpose into terms that are unambiguous:

 

I want to bang 10 hot chicks in the next year.

 

I want to have a sexual relationship with a good woman.

 

for example.

[ThaWholigan]

Well as you know, I have a massive library of PUA material, some of which helped me come out of my shell as a social person. However, beware that a lot of it really is some BS. Having said that, remember its a tool - it doesn't change who you are.

 

The material I would recommend would be tao of badass, love systems beyond words, make small talk sexy, code of the natural and secrets of the alpha man. If you want the more controversial stuff, there is 10 second attraction, magic bullets, sex god method etc. There are others but you don't really need any more than that. Do what I did and just filter out the BS. I found some gold in each of these books though, and none of it required a massive alteration of my personality, just an easier, more comfortable expression for it that felt natural to who I am.

Edited November 19, 2012 by ThaWholigan
spelling

[youaretheone]

There is nice material out there which could get you a one night stand. If you want something more serious, it all depends on what-they-call your "inner game". In the end, no matter how many pickup lines you use or routines you perform on women, it will come out as desperate and obvious gameplay if you are not natural with what you are doing.

 

Things MrCastle pointed out are very essentials of a "natural" PUA. You can game women into sleeping with you but if you want something long-term, you will have to drop all those pick up lines and routines and your real self will come out. That's why I believe you should use PUA material to improve your inner-game if you want to benefit from it. It's a tool not a personality you should embody.

[ThaWholigan]

There is nice material out there which could get you a one night stand. If you want something more serious, it all depends on what-they-call your "inner game". In the end, no matter how many pickup lines you use or routines you perform on women, it will come out as desperate and obvious gameplay if you are not natural with what you are doing.

 

Things MrCastle pointed out are very essentials of a "natural" PUA. You can game women into sleeping with you but if you want something long-term, you will have to drop all those pick up lines and routines and your real self will come out. That's why I believe you should use PUA material to improve your inner-game if you want to benefit from it. It's a tool not a personality you should embody.

For inner game stuff, I would recommend anything by carlos xuma. Masses of info and common sense. He doesn't seem like he is trying to brainwash you with cult like stuff.

[Kamille]

I haven't started yet...

 

Well.

 

It starts now.

 

You are no longer desperate. You are someone who has a game plan.

[CarrieT]

I always thought they were BS antics as well...but are they really BS...? Would an entire industry be built around BS (like organic food )...? I am beginning to have my doubts as to whether I was wrong about PUA...perhaps the BS isn't as BS as I thought...I mean, why would it "work" if it was fluff...?

 

I guess I'm more curious than anything else...or desperate...

Look at the diet pill industry. Or all those insane pieces of freakish exercise equipment ( the one that mimics the movement of jacking off comes toons) and tell me there aren't whole industries devoted to selling BS.

 

You know me, Hoke. You know the number of men I have known. An intellignry girl can see right through the game-playing. I think PUA crap will work on girls with little or no IQs - and I don't think you want to draw that type of girl to you.

[Emilia]

Hokster, isn't the 'issue' that you don't do much with the girls when you get them rather than not being able to get them in the first place? The impression I had from your posts in the past made me think that you didn't close the deal rather than had trouble setting one up in the first place.

[Taramere]

I guess the first question that comes to mind is, what does it even mean to be "down to earth"...?

 

Natural. Unpretentious.

 

And as happy as I might be with "myself" and my personality, I've realized that being unassuming and modest doesn't really do much to expose that personality, or at least draw women to want to uncover the personality. I don't think I have the looks to prompt women to want to get to know me...so logically, I'd have to be the aggressor and give them a reason to want to get to know me. I.e., "force" my personality on them...

 

We always hear about how men should be more "confident," but how exactly does one do that? In the Marines, we use the purpose, method, and endstate to lay out a concept of operations. The purpose is the reason why, the method is how you do it, and the endstate is what you're left with. For most guys, the purpose is clear, to become better with women. Yet they are constantly advised to be more confident. I believe that confidence is an endstate, not a method. They are never given that method. Perhaps PUA is the method to reaching the desired endstate?

 

And I picked Australia because that's honestly the only social interaction I'll have for the next year...

 

I don't know if it's possible to describe. You'll experience it when you get there. If you do it right you're going to be so busy with outdoor activities, bbqs, hanging out with people and just having fun that you won't have time to sit around analysing your interactions with people.

 

PUA is a very American thing, and unless the backpacking scene has changed drastically over the past few years I seriously doubt you'll bump into all that many fellow Americans. Antipodeans, Europeans and Canadians yes...but Americans don't seem to be nearly as into that whole thing.

 

If you can find PUA types who have gone backpacking round Australia and had a great time doing it while thinking about and implementing PUA theory then by all means listen to them (with caution, given that there's always the potential for bull****)...but otherwise you might be better just going there without any set ideas about what it's going to be like.

 

I honestly can't imagine you going there and not having a brilliant time. The only people I ever encountered who didn't seem to be enjoying themselves (and I can only think of 3) were either a bit weirdly antisocial - as opposed to just shy - and/or had been travelling for too long and were jaded by the whole thing.

[USMCHokie]

Hokster, isn't the 'issue' that you don't do much with the girls when you get them rather than not being able to get them in the first place? The impression I had from your posts in the past made me think that you didn't close the deal rather than had trouble setting one up in the first place.

 

Correct. I never "close the deal," so to speak, because I never set it up to begin with...because I am completely unaware that I "got them"...when I meet a girl, my first instinct is to throw myself into the friend zone because that's just the way I've always had to interact with women growing up. I was always the great friend, the harmless one, the one they were comfortable being around alone.

[Kamille]

The message I get from Hokie is that he wants to change something within himself.

 

If he goes to Australia still stuck in his own head about dating (I nearly wrote, still stuck in his own narratives about himself), he might not be able to adopt the carefree backpacking attitude. He might put too much pressure on situations. He might feel like he's coming off the wrong way. (Doubt that he actually does come off the way he thinks he does, but part of this battle is self-perception).

 

Do I like the blatant PUA adepts who are more invested in acting the part than getting to know me? No. Do I like men who are comfortable in their own skin and know how to flirt? Yes. I don't see the harm in Hokie trying to change the way he interacts with women. PUA is one way to get there.

 

Plus, Hokie has a good head on his (oh so sexy) shoulders. Clearly, he'll be able to distinguish the bs from the pearls of wisdom.

[SteveC80]

A good friend of mine who is pretty good lookign but was a little socially awkward used it after having trouble attracting women he wanted and ended up having very good sucess but told me he came ort of it more messed up then he was before.

 

He said becuase pua made him see that tons of women are naive creatures and easy to manipulate and lack any integrity..

 

He said he tried it even with friends wives not to do wrong but to see how his flriting skills are and these women started groping him and telling him they love hm.

 

 

He know looks at women as not that bright and unloyal so maybe if you dig deep into this you may not find what youre loking for

[USMCHokie]

The message I get from Hokie is that he wants to change something within himself.

 

<------- I want to be more like this rock star.

 

If he goes to Australia still stuck in his own head about dating (I nearly wrote, still stuck in his own narratives about himself), he might not be able to adopt the carefree backpacking attitude. He might put too much pressure on situations. He might feel like he's coming off the wrong way. (Doubt that he actually does come off the way he thinks he does, but part of this battle is self-perception).

 

Do I like the blatant PUA adepts who are more invested in acting the part than getting to know me? No. Do I like men who are comfortable in their own skin and know how to flirt? Yes. I don't see the harm in Hokie trying to change the way he interacts with women. PUA is one way to get there.

 

Plus, Hokie has a good head on his (oh so sexy) shoulders. Clearly, he'll be able to distinguish the bs from the pearls of wisdom.

 

Interestingly enough, I am more inclined to experiment with going full-on PUA rather than sifting through BS and trying to filter out what I think is right. Because I don't know what I don't know, and if I allow my prior conceptions and ideas of PUA to cloud my learning, I may not pick up what is really trying to be taught...or I may be so unimpressionable that I ignore everything and learn nothing. It's why the first step in basic military training is to break the individual down so he can be molded to the standard. It's the smart ones who are often the toughest to train. Too much thinking can certainly impair learning...

 

And thanks...

[Imported]

Well.

 

It starts now.

 

You are no longer desperate. You are someone who has a game plan.

 

That's all it really is, knowing what you're doing. I use to compare PUA stuff to taking a public speaking course. I was never able to just get in front of people and make a speech....smoothly. Even on things I know well. Sometimes I did well, sometimes OK, most times....not so good. I read more about it, took a course on public speaking. It improved my presentations tremendously. After a few really well done presentations, I even enjoyed it. I was able to jump up and make a speech on the spot about things I didn't really know much about. It felt natural.

 

For some people, it has always been natural. But if they were to tell all the people that are horrible at it to just get up there and start talking ...to just be you..it probably wouldn't be received very well. Most people would tell other people that are not natural public speakers to take a course on how to do it, because you really need a game plan, to know what it is you'll be doing. That is just common sense. However, tell them to do the same for getting a girl....and you're a douche.

[ThaWholigan]

<------- I want to be more like this rock star.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, I am more inclined to experiment with going full-on PUA rather than sifting through BS and trying to filter out what I think is right. Because I don't know what I don't know, and if I allow my prior conceptions and ideas of PUA to cloud my learning, I may not pick up what is really trying to be taught...or I may be so unimpressionable that I ignore everything and learn nothing. It's why the first step in basic military training is to break the individual down so he can be molded to the standard. It's the smart ones who are often the toughest to train. Too much thinking can certainly impair learning...

 

And thanks...

Full-on PUA?

 

I would caution against that but I have never gone full-on PUA so I don't know. I would say to pick your method if you are going to go full-on. Some methods are going to contradict each other.

[dasein]

Well this could turn into an interesting social experiment for you and at the very least, you will be able to correct some preconceived notions and ingrained habits. Reading and adding some PUA to my approach to dating really helped me, hope you find the same.

[USMCHokie]

Look at the diet pill industry. Or all those insane pieces of freakish exercise equipment ( the one that mimics the movement of jacking off comes toons) and tell me there aren't whole industries devoted to selling BS.

 

You know me, Hoke. You know the number of men I have known. An intellignry girl can see right through the game-playing. I think PUA crap will work on girls with little or no IQs - and I don't think you want to draw that type of girl to you.

 

Hey now, the ShakeWeight is an outstanding piece of gear!

 

But I think I'd be fine with trying to attract the lower IQ women...because I learned in my last relationship that recently ended that I will never be happy in any relationship until I get this out of my system and rid myself of the race issue...so I am fine with an indefinite string of meaningless and casual relationships, for lack of a better term. I am not ready or willing for any kind of the real thing in the near future...so I'm not looking for the sharpest tool in the shed...or someone to bring home to the parents...

 

Just being honest...