Author raykinsella Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 Water, that is unfair. I supported her and her 4 kids for 12 years. We still have her 2 daughters and my 2 daughters in the house. I took care her and her kids. But after 12 years and with all the trouble those 2 boys caused both of us we were both ready for them to move out. I patience had worn out. I did kick them out or tell her they had to leave. It was time. And yes part of the reason I felt this way is that they did nothing. 2 adults eating all day long, playing games and watching tv.
Author raykinsella Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 She did back me up and agree that it was time. We gave them 30 days to find a place. Which they did. They both found jobs and have been on their own for 2 months now. It's made things much better, for all of us. And the boys are doing very well. They needed this tough love years ago. Buy I was always "too hard" on them according to her. It was a source of conflict for us for 12 years. We never fought about anything but kid related stuff.
MYCluciferase Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 That's great news! You had eventually told through the posts that the parenting issues had caused you to back away from the marriage, causing. To put your situation in a different perspective, I've been through a slightly similar thing, and in response to the parenting conflicts I withdrew and became depressed for a while. Now although I apologized and am back in the marriage and doing my best to be loving and attentive (trying make up for my 'absence' and pulling my weight) it's as though we've ended all relations. She's cold and distant, there's no sex, no affection (several years now) and she verbally puts me down all the time. I don't see any way back. Maybe your wife felt frustration and then found comfort where she could find it (with the other guy). It was a stupid thing to do, but at least she came back to you, and at least she's apologized and is trying to make things good. I may have an unconventional tolerance of affairs, but to me, it was a bad time and it's over. Now it's up to you to find out if you really do want to continue to be with this woman. Time will help, maybe taking a trip together may help, maybe you need some counseling (- but be prepared to take criticism for your withdrawal from the marriage as well). Best. MYC
jnel921 Posted November 23, 2012 Posted November 23, 2012 So sorry you are going through this. I found out recently as well about my H who cheated with his Co-workers GF. They were very good friends and things are not the same. H wanted to save our marriage and suggested MC. We have gone since and have been working towards improving our marriage. Our meetings with the counselor are less about what happened but the issues we have together. He has to deal with my 2 kids, his stepchildren so I understand how that can cause wedges in your marriage. They are in HS but its tough ages. We are working through that, together. I also feel like you do. I dont look at him the same way and he tells me he loves me all of the time and I haven't said it back. He is doing all of the right things and has done a 360 when it comes to me and the kids. It will take some time, but you have to do the work too and let go of some of those feelings. Being hurt and lied to is terrible. But you have to make a choice. You can choose to walk away if it bothers you that much or you can give it a chance. At the end of the day her sons will leave and it will be just the both of you. You need to support each other if you want to spend the rest of your years together. Good Luck.
jnj express Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 So what is it, you want You are sad, and don't wanna work on things---you love her very much, and want to be with her----This ain't gonna work both ways It's like what she claimed/you are trying to take partial responsibility for---that being, her spreading her legs for her lover----the guy who said the right things to her, when you refused her Her proper action when she was having trouble was to threaten/file for D----instead she justified having her A------ Tell me had you not caught her---would she still be in this A----Your wife ain't the wondrous woman you make her out to be---and she ain't the woman you loved long ago and far away Yes both of you are responsible for the mge falling apart---maybe you more than her---but A's are not the answer, counseling, forced conversation, D, are the answer!!!!!! So again what is it you want---she triggers you---she may trigger you all the rest of your life----all of this is also tied to your sub--conscious---which may never let you forget----are you going to IC, to help yourself No matter what, keep the 2 boys out of your home, as they will just cuase friction to a mge that is already burning out of control Bottom line---how much misery are you willing to live with, and for how long???????
Author raykinsella Posted November 25, 2012 Author Posted November 25, 2012 I know this is probably a common response but I am afraid of being without her. I'm afraid of being alone and starting over. There's no Garuntee I will ever fall in love again or have someone fall in love with me. I don't know how much of this I can take. She is trying and she does love me. I just don't know if I can forgive her. It's too painful. It's only been 3 months. Is that enough time to answer these questions? I know I love her and if I could flip a switch and make these memories "less painful" so we could move forward, I would. I even think I'd erase these memories from my mind if I could. Part of me wishes I just never found out. Can I make a decision like this in 3 months?
Spark1111 Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 I know this is probably a common response but I am afraid of being without her. I'm afraid of being alone and starting over. There's no Garuntee I will ever fall in love again or have someone fall in love with me. I don't know how much of this I can take. She is trying and she does love me. I just don't know if I can forgive her. It's too painful. It's only been 3 months. Is that enough time to answer these questions? I know I love her and if I could flip a switch and make these memories "less painful" so we could move forward, I would. I even think I'd erase these memories from my mind if I could. Part of me wishes I just never found out. Can I make a decision like this in 3 months? No, not a rational one. this is a process, one that may take years, and that remains true whether you reconcile or divorce. Start reading on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and it's stages. Read it together....and remember, you can decide not to decide for as long as you need. And tell her the truth of your feelings and what you are going through. 1
Author raykinsella Posted November 25, 2012 Author Posted November 25, 2012 The problem is I am not really sure what I am feeling and what I want. Part of me looks at her and I think tomyself there is NO WAY I will ever be able to get over this. I will always have this sadness as long as I am with her. She will always be a reminder of the affair and the pain she caused me. I think that the only way I can move past this pain is to not be with her. But then a part of me thinks that this could be a blessing in disguise and that we can be closer and forge a stronger relationship. But is it worth it??? Is it worth it to have to go through this pain and to have to live with these thoughts and memories of her being with another man? Couldn't the blessing also be that it will help me in future relationships?? Why does she get to reap the benefits of what I have learned from this? Why does she get "rewarded" with a more open, affectionate, selfless partner? The affair wasn't my fault. I know that. But I also have learned the role I played in "pushing her away" and not communiciating.
veryhappy Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Can the two of you separate for a while? Give yourself a chance for the obsessive thoughts to die down. Men seem to have much more trouble getting over an A. My therapist was telling me about a husband who 30 years later can't get over his W's infidelity. If you will know at some point that you'll never be able to forgive, it's probably best that you let her go. I say focus on short term now. Do things easier for you for now, like not seeing her if she triggers you, and see where it gets you when the dust settles.
karnak Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 If you decide to stay with her you are going to have to totally change the relationship dynamic. From now on, everything goes your way. Your word needs to the THE LAW. And that means about everything. She loses all freedom and she loses all say--other than whatever you deign to grant her. You still have 100% veto power. You have to turn it into a totally dominant/submissive relationship with you being the dominant party. Set your own boundaries, stick to them, and then let her decide whether she wants to stick around. So: his marriage turns into a slavery or a BDSM act?
KathyM Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 I'm going to disagree with some of the posters on here and encourage you not to force yourself to make a decision at this time. It's only been three months. You are still in a state of shock and in the grieving stage for the marriage that was lost. It's certainly very understandable that you would feel great sadness and disgust every time you see your wife and are reminded that the person who you were committed to love and be faithful to threw that all away and gave herself so intimately to some other guy. Something that was special and belonged to you was given so carelessly to someone else. You have every right to still feel the anger and hurt and disgust every time you look at your wife. That is completely understandable. It's only been three months, after all. It takes time to heal, and in some ways, there will always be some moments of pain, regret and disappointment, but as you continue to rebuild, those moments will become a sad memory that has less of an ability to take over your feelings, and you will begin to see the good in your relationship again and the good things about your wife again, and the sadness will be a small part that's placed in the back of your mind. So allow yourself to not make any decision right now whether to go or stay if you don't feel ready to make that decision. This is a huge decision. There's no rush in having to make that decision. And live with your feelings and allow yourself to feel anger and disgust. You have a right to those feelings. But with time, you may be able to get past this. In time, you will realize whether or not this is a scar you can live with, or whether the scar is too big to try to rebuild. You don't need to be in rebuilding mode right now. You are in grieving mode, and there is nothing wrong with allowing yourself to grieve the loss of the fidelity in your marriage. There is no right time to start to rebuild. Most people are in a state of confusion, hurt, anger, shock after a betrayal, and the amount of time it takes to get past that stage is different for each person. You really can't force yourself to be motivated to rebuild if you are not ready for that stage yet, and it is obvious that you are not. So give it more time, until you are ready to commit to a decision to either rebuild or to leave the relationship. And don't start being an overbearing jerk to your wife. That's not going to help. Punishing her at this point is not going to help you rebuild, and it's not going to undo what she has done. 1
Author raykinsella Posted November 25, 2012 Author Posted November 25, 2012 What is your definition of "punishing" my wife?? I don't yell at her or call her names or anything like that. Is it punishment when I ask her questions about the affair? Questions that I have asked already. Many times. Is it punishment for her when I am sullen and withdrawn, or sad. Is it punishment when I cry? Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't be depressed around her and that is a form of punishment for her. What does it mean not to punish my wife? Can you give me a clearer idea what that means?
KathyM Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 What is your definition of "punishing" my wife?? I don't yell at her or call her names or anything like that. Is it punishment when I ask her questions about the affair? Questions that I have asked already. Many times. Is it punishment for her when I am sullen and withdrawn, or sad. Is it punishment when I cry? Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't be depressed around her and that is a form of punishment for her. What does it mean not to punish my wife? Can you give me a clearer idea what that means? When I said punishing your wife, I was mostly referring to advice given by a couple of other posters who were suggesting you become this overbearing husband that dictates everything in the marriage as a form of punishment for your wife's misbehavior. I'm suggesting that that mentality is not going to help you at all. And by all means ask for details of the affair. I think people need to know the truth about what happened in order to process it and move past it. And sometimes they ask the same questions more than once in order to try to process the situation. Allow yourself to be sullen and withdrawn and sad. You have every right to feel that way and are in grieving mode.
jnj express Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Punishment is the wrong word---ACCOUNTABILITY, is the proper term---she needs to be accountable for what she has done------ She must show remorse, she must do ALL the heavy lifting to re make the mge----problem is she is not the same woman you loved, so do you even wanna go thru all of this??? I get it you ground her down, and in your mind think you pushed her toward her cheating situation----you caused major trouble for the mge----that did not cause her to cheat----what you did should have caused her to get in your face, and tell you she was gonna D you-------cheating is a whole different situation, and it of all things causes the worst pain imaginable She knew what the consequences of her acts would be----but instead of standing up to you about the marital problems---she justified her infidelity, replacing you with another man Do not be afraid---you can move on without her-----again tho---this is your life, all we can do is suggest If you do stay-----you must be harsh about this whole situation, she must have hard boundaries, with ACTIONABLE CONSEQUENCES---not WORDS---for if she percieves you as handling this lightly without accountability, and a change in her lifestyle---then she will CHEAT AGAIN---knowing she can get away with it, as you did nothing this time!!!!!!
KathyM Posted November 25, 2012 Posted November 25, 2012 Well, I'm all in favor of getting everything (details of the affair) out into the open, and setting firm boundaries in order to reestablish trust, but becoming a demanding overbearing tyrant about it is just going to cause resentment and impede the rebuildng process. It's all in the way you approach it and communicate it to your wife. Letting your wife know in a calm manner what boundaries are needed in order for her to rebuild trust is a necessary part of the rebuilding process. Also important in rebuilding is your wife's admission that she made a terrible mistake, and her sincere apology and assurance that she will never hurt you like that again. Getting frequent and sincere reassurance of this helps to some degree. Personally, I would find it hard to trust the sincerety of someone who has cheated and is now doing damage control because the affair was discovered, but you'll have to be the judge of whether your wife's apology and assurances are genuine or not, and if you would be able to get past this. Also important in the recovery process is a thorough examination of why this happened, and what issues in the marriage and in your wife may have contributed to it, preferably done through marriage counseling.
jnj express Posted November 26, 2012 Posted November 26, 2012 Hey Kathy---I understand where you are coming from---BUT----how far does a BS, go, to make sure that the cheater knows he/she is deadly serious You know as well as I do, a goodly amount of the time, the cheater just shines on the betrayed by going deeper underground---if there are not some set, serious changes made The betrayed cannot gloss over this lightly, or the cheater just may test the waters again, as this time there was/were no serious changes made in the cheaters lifestyle-----where do you draw the line as to how far you go, if you are the betrayed Does not the cheater lose some of their rights, in the R., process, this should not be an easy process for them, and they should not have the right to complain----tho I do agree with you, the betrayed should not abuse the cheater in any way----so how far do you go, as the betrayed??????
KathyM Posted November 26, 2012 Posted November 26, 2012 Hey Kathy---I understand where you are coming from---BUT----how far does a BS, go, to make sure that the cheater knows he/she is deadly serious You know as well as I do, a goodly amount of the time, the cheater just shines on the betrayed by going deeper underground---if there are not some set, serious changes made The betrayed cannot gloss over this lightly, or the cheater just may test the waters again, as this time there was/were no serious changes made in the cheaters lifestyle-----where do you draw the line as to how far you go, if you are the betrayed Does not the cheater lose some of their rights, in the R., process, this should not be an easy process for them, and they should not have the right to complain----tho I do agree with you, the betrayed should not abuse the cheater in any way----so how far do you go, as the betrayed?????? You know, the fidelity of one's spouse is under the spouse's control, not the BS. No amount of policing, boundary setting, screeming, yelling, etc. is going to prevent a person from cheating who is determined to continue cheating. But for those WS who are truly remorseful and want to restore their marriage and not cheat again, boundaries help to prevent situations that could potentially lead to feelings of emotional or physical attraction, such as establishing communication boundaries between your spouse and his/her coworkers of the opposite sex. I'm not suggesting the affair be treated lightly. I would suggest making it clear to the WS that if the BS decides to try to move past the betrayal, that he/she makes it clear that there will not be another chance if the marriage is violated again. It will result in a divorce with no chance of reconciliation. And that boundaries will need to be respected at all times if they want the marriage to continue. And that honesty in the relationship is a requirement, as is explaining the details of what led up to the betrayal and details of the betrayal itself. Also working on the marriage is something that the BS should require, preferably through marriage counseling. I think there are a lot of expectations that the BS should put on the WS in order to restore the marriage and restore trust. The WS is not getting off the hook by any means. But being a bitch/ass to the WS when you are trying to reconcile is not going to help in the reconciliation process. It will only harm it.
Betrayed&Stayed Posted November 26, 2012 Posted November 26, 2012 Because when I look at her I am reminded of what she did. It's why I started this thread...she is a trigger. I am disgusted, angry and sad, but I also love her. I want to forgive her. I want this to bring us closer, if that is possible. I've read hundreds of posts from people who were able to forgive and grow as a couple. I'm not sure if I can or not. But I know I hope that I can do that. I have told her that I am really angry and hurt by the fact that she wasn't able to fulfill the vows or "for better or worse". And I have every right to give up on her and us because of what she did, but isn't that the same thing she did. Giving up during the bad times? It's pretty easy to see people's "agenda" or attitudes about this situation from the tone of their responses. I guess I was kind of hoping for the people who were able to trust again, love again, and forgive, and not just the people who are jaded and are telling me to "come to my senses" and move on. I understand that this might be the end result. But I also know that there are many BS who have forgiven and went on to rebuild a stronger more loving and healthy relationship. Although I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, I am hoping that I will someday. I love her and I am choosing to try to work through this. Three months is not a long period of time to come to grips with your situation or emotions. Your emotions will continue to fluctuate all over the spectrum. What you are feeling now is "normal". To answer your specific question: Watching my wife undress was a big trigger. After all of these years it still triggers me on occasion. You can't see the light at the end of tunnel yet because this will take time; lots of time. I did not divorce my WW, but it was on the table during the reconciliation process. Of course there were times that I thought it was inevitable. For me, if I opted for a divorce I wanted to be able to tell my young children (and myself) that I did everything possible on my end to reconcile the marriage. IMO, you are not in a position to make a decision on divorce. Your entire world has been rocked to the core. Regardless of what you eventually decide, you are going to go through the grieving process. Your marriage has died. Are you going to start over with a new partner, or start over with your wife? Either way, it will be painful. 2
Bittersweetie Posted November 26, 2012 Posted November 26, 2012 You know, the fidelity of one's spouse is under the spouse's control, not the BS. No amount of policing, boundary setting, screeming, yelling, etc. is going to prevent a person from cheating who is determined to continue cheating. But for those WS who are truly remorseful and want to restore their marriage and not cheat again, boundaries help to prevent situations that could potentially lead to feelings of emotional or physical attraction, such as establishing communication boundaries between your spouse and his/her coworkers of the opposite sex. I'm not suggesting the affair be treated lightly. I would suggest making it clear to the WS that if the BS decides to try to move past the betrayal, that he/she makes it clear that there will not be another chance if the marriage is violated again. It will result in a divorce with no chance of reconciliation. And that boundaries will need to be respected at all times if they want the marriage to continue. And that honesty in the relationship is a requirement, as is explaining the details of what led up to the betrayal and details of the betrayal itself. Also working on the marriage is something that the BS should require, preferably through marriage counseling. I think there are a lot of expectations that the BS should put on the WS in order to restore the marriage and restore trust. The WS is not getting off the hook by any means. But being a bitch/ass to the WS when you are trying to reconcile is not going to help in the reconciliation process. It will only harm it. I hope it's okay for me to jump in here, I was a WS. I agree with Kathy's statement. After our d-day, my H made it very clear what I needed to do and what boundaries there were going to be in order for us to maybe work toward a reconciliation. For the first few months, he made the decision to not decide whether to stay or go, and to see what happens. However, that did not mean I was the off the hook in any way shape or form. I was expected to answer questions, open all my passwords, text whenever necessary, go to IC, etc. I did these things not only because I wanted to stay with my H but also because I wanted to grow and address my own issues so that I did not make such a terrible choice again. My H also made it very clear that if I ever contact the xOM again, or do anything affair-related again, he will be done, no questions asked. I completely understand that expectation will always be in place. Now, that doesn't mean my H is now the ruler over me. Yes, those first few months, he monitored my whereabouts and read my email etc. But then he stopped, and he told me he did. He said that he didn't want to live like that, and he knew if I really wanted to do something I would. He hoped I would respect him this time by telling him before doing anything. I know that may sound lame to some people, asking a cheater to respect their BS, but it made sense to me and I agreed. I have no desire to do what I did again. I love my H and respect him and if I have a problem we talk about it. If I'm struggling, I share with him. I don't have anything to hide anymore, so he can look at any of my stuff any time. Now, it wasn't an easy road to get where we are. I worked hard in IC, and he went to IC also. We hashed through a lot of issues within our relationship from before the A and after. It made us stronger both together and separately. And I've learned to handle things differently. Like, just this weekend...we have a new baby, and I've been struggling pretty hard with things. Before, I would've kept it to myself, gotten more upset, let resentment build, etc. Instead, I told him I was struggling. We talked through it, together, and now I feel better. My problems aren't solved but we're dealing with them together and that makes a huge difference. I'm sorry if I've digressed a bit...what I am trying to say is that as a WS, I felt boundaries were put in place. Changes were made. My H wasn't a jerk about it, but he was firm and clear in explaining what his expectations were and what would happen if I didn't meet them. I can see how that would not work, however, if one has a WS who is not remorseful or willing to change.
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