Even playing field?

November 19, 2012

sure some betrayed spouses do 'let things go"...but the majority don't...they are simply living their life, and assigning importance to everything in their life based upon many factors, some of them being that some things actually ARE important...

there are many times when the kids do have to come first, when a clean house is important, when a wife's career needs a lot of attention...

I think that it's an easy cop out for an other woman to say "well, his spouse at home must be dropping the ball somewhere", as the alternative would be that married guy doesn't have an "excuse" to cheat, so there must be something in him that allows him to cheat...

sure, there are some husbands and wives that let themselves go, but that doesn't change the fact that the wayward spouses solution to that is to cheat...

and where does their responsibility lie? have they told their spouse they were unhappy? what are they doing/not doing to contribute to the state of the marriage? did they try and leave and big, bad wifey tied him up and threatened him?

could it be as simple as married guy wants to cheat? that there is something in him that allows him to see cheating as an acceptable choice ( maybe not preferred, but certainly acceptable, as if it wasn't he/she wouldn't do it?)

at least with a married person why admits that they aren't going to leave is being honest as far as that goes...

November 19, 2012

Like the OP, I do agree that secrecy plays a special dynamic in affairs. In an open M, the fact that the spouse is fully in the loop, makes a big difference, both in the M and in any external R. Remove all the secrecy and deception and I think the dynamic changes for all 3 parties.

Secrecy is the part of the affair I don't participate in. I don't have to hide in my life so I don't. If he keeps me a secret in parts of his world I don't know it. I just do what I do, so that adds nothing to it for me.

In my quote above, I was only referring to secrecy from the BS affecting all 3, not secrecy from anyone else. The thread topic relates specifically to the BS not knowing. Having experienced both an A kept secret from the BW (but with no hiding otherwise, since we lived in different cities) and an out in the open R with the same man, as well as an open M, I do think there is a substantial difference between whether the other spouse knows all about the R (as in an open M, for example) or it is kept secret from the spouse which affects all 3.

Unless you have experienced both a secret A and out in the open R with the same MM, or been with a man in an open M, you may not realize just how much this changes the dynamics. From the BS point of view it is obvious and the OP discusses some of that. I could discuss it from the OW point of view, but that seems off-topic, so I'll just note that I've already mentioned elsewhere that seeing MM handle things openly with everyone and openly sharing his home as lovers, with the W present, changes things.

On the other point of giving to the M bringing happiness and focus, I do think it makes one unlikely to cheat. So perhaps it is the one cheating who stopped giving enough to the M.

November 19, 2012

I never said it was on one person to fix.

Fair enough.

I am more than aware of the need to keep feeding the marriage with love and appreciation. I always was and thank god we are getting back on track with that going forward. But I do think that a marriage should be able to weather a bad patch without one party finding someone else. I married my H for better or worse - we have supported each other through other bad times. I just wish he'd had the guts to stick with it faithfully this time.

November 19, 2012

I never said it was on one person to fix. My entire response was based on the previous responses that said that why would they want to be bothered? or that they were too busy. I think that's a lousy stance for anyone to take.
I don't understand that attitude in any relationship. I never said the reasonable "fix" was to cheat.

Spark said "who'd want to live like that" and listed a bunch of ways to small efforts, as if they were things that were too much to do for someone. Not all spouses "give up" like that, but a lot do, sometimes without realizing it.
I stand by it...I want to live my life and my relationships making the effort. When I love someone they are worth the small efforts. So I sleep 10 minutes less a night and shave my legs and paint my nails, like I did when we were dating. If I want to have a gossipy phone call I do it WHILE I do the dishes so both get done. I watch little tv because I live my life not watch others live so that doesn't take up much time. I've always found that when 1 person is making a concerted effort the other tends to step up too. I understand career and kids and housework, but when your relationship falls apart those things do as well.
Frozen sprouts you go on to say that they are simply living their life, and assigning importance to everything in their life based upon many factors, some of them being that some things actually ARE important...
Don't you think making the small efforts are important? I think no one really read what I had to say. You assumed I was going to say one thing, so you took that away. I'm not saying you need to do it every day, but I think if you never do it, you should be looking at why not. The kids don't need to come first every day. The house doesn't need to come first every day. Your career doesn't need to come first every day. Babysitters/someone to help with the house/days off might be expensive, but so is marriage counseling and divorce and a date with your partner once a month is a lot more fun than a trip to marriage counseling. I think people should ask themselves regularly when was the last time they put making their marriage or relationship first for a day? Their partner? Those things need caretaking too.

I remember when I first got married and we were just starting our lives together with very little money and a whole lot of nothing but love to live on. I said to my mom that going to dinner together for our anniversary was just too expensive. She smiled and handed me $20, said it doesn't matter how small the gesture is or where we go, it was the point of making the effort. She was right.

I probably DO have the "advantage", because yes I do know there is someone else so I can weigh that as I make efforts in my relationship if I so choose... but the same could be said about his wife as well she has the "advantage" of him being physically in the same house with her daily. That's an advantage for sure.

I simply opt to not think of it as a competiton.

LFH,

I don't want to give you a hard time, and there certainly is validity to what you are saying, but for some betrayed spouses, it's not as simple as you don't care anymore or you stop trying...

sometimes, life gets in the way and other things have to take priority...that can be a hard pill for some to swallow...

I will use my own life as an example...

my husband and I have three kids, and two of them have issues that require that i be at home with them. So we get by on one income. Their issues require a lot of therapy, and I do as much of that as I can myself.

Things have gotten a bit better, but they do tend to ebb and flow, and these problems will always be there ( our son will probably always live with us, and our oldest may too). There are days when my oldest is hurting so much she can hardly walk, and I have to help her get out of bed, get to the bathroom, etc. and she's bigger than I am. Those days, she cries form the pain, and it's horrible. Sometimes those days can last for weeks at a time, and you end up so emotionally drained and tired out that it's all you can do to get the housework done, and you still have two other kids who need your time and attention.

My husband is away a lot ( military) , so i do a lot of this alone.

This may sound an extreme, but there are many wives ( and husband's too) who are in a situation that's not that dissimilar. I don't think that it's truly a lack of caring ( thought it may be interpreted that way) that is always what makes a spouse stop trying so hard, rather, it's life. The real problem seems to come when a husband and wife stop talking about their problems, etc. Maybe a lot of heartache could be avoided if a spouse ( let's say the wife) said " I'm sorry if I'm not that attentive right now, but x,y, or z is going on, and right now, it's taking up most of my thoughts"...perhaps the husband might understand that it's not a slight against them, but rather, life happening. Maybe he could do a bit extra so his wife could have a few minutes to spend some time with just him, maybe they could work together to find a way to carve out a few minutes alone...

Really, if a wayward spouse had enough time to find time to cheat, then why would it be so hard to find some time to make things a bit easier for their husband/wife? Are they really trying? Maybe they are, maybe not. But it does come back to the idea that a person who cheats does so because they see it as an acceptable choice to make. For every spouse who solves their problems by cheating, there is one who finds another way, be it divorce, counseling, whatever.

November 19, 2012

This has nothing to do with "keeping them faithful". It has to do with being a good partner. A person that is going to cheat, is probably going to cheat. But that's still not an excuse to be lazy and neglectful and I still think it's sad that some people can't be bothered to put energy into their relationship until they think someone else wants it.
And as a single OW I don't "have all the time in the world" I have a life too. When I do put him first, or my best friend first, or my mom or dad or siblings or cousins or dog or career.. or whoever, it's because I want to put them first at that moment.
And the key is it can't be for "just a day" but it doesn't have to be every day. It's only a problem when it's NEVER EVEN for a day.

I don't think that anyone is saying that it's okay to be neglectful of your spouse...

but having been married, and also having had a few long term relationships when I was younger a long term relationship is nothing like being married. When you're married, you have a certain set of responsibilities that you just don't have when you're single, especially if you are raising kids. You're not only responsible for yourself, but also someone else who is completely dependent on you. You don't really have a choice of prioritizing them behind other things.

The key seems to be finding a balance between your job as a parent and your relationship with your spouse...but that takes two, an both a husband and wife have to be willing to find that balance...

something that may surprise many other women is that often the wives at home most definitely ARE trying to do the "little things" for their husbands...but there is, after all, only so much time in a day, and sometimes a husband( or wife) doesn't even see the little things that their spouse does....

I know mine didn't...I actually had to sit him down and explain to him all the little things that I did each day for him that he'd taken for granted and stopped noticing...I just do them because I wanted to make his days easier and better..I did them with love, but i didn't make a huge fanfare over it...maybe that comes back to issues with communication

November 19, 2012

Well, if loves is an action, I had that in spades AND my legs were shaved and nails done as I was working three jobs, taking care of children and elderly parents, (both his and mine) while he tried to rebuild his career after overcoming years of a medical condition and resulting depression.

He crashed into her at his new job and sucked in every ounce of adoration and those quiet fantasy weekends when her xspouse had custody of their child at her house while we were told he was away on business's.

I took care of three children, an aging parent, two dogs and the damned cat.

sigh...she gave him six golf balls and a shirt.

I wish Ihad either the time or resources to shower affection and attention on him.

I wish he had not. Lost the inclination or desire during the affair. To shower me with affection or attention. he did not.

Ans my legs were shaved and nails polished the entire time!

Imagine that?

November 19, 2012

The first thing people need to let go of is the idea that you can control someone else's choices.

You cannot love someone out of making bad decisions.

You cannot be an ever shifting fountain of fueling someone else's inner peace. Healthy grownups know that their best reflection comes from the good and kind choices they make, and the mark they leave on the world, not affirmatory mirroring from someone else.

With that being said -prior to and during the affair- I have always been an adoring and loving wife. I have always been quite well kept and pretty. Our Sex life was active and fantastic.

And all of those things- did not matter one whit when it came down to it.

That's the lesson people have got to own and know. You can make yourself insane trying to love someone out of bad decisions.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Decorative

November 19, 2012

We can go in circles debating the even playing field.

I believe the ultimate even playing field is when all three, the WS, OW, and Betrayed Spouse are face to face. No one speaks on behalf of the other, no assumptions on each others behalf, let the truth speak for itself.

Until then, it's only speculation.

November 19, 2012

Well, if loves is an action, I had that in spades AND my legs were shaved and nails done as I was working three jobs, taking care of children and elderly parents, (both his and mine) while he tried to rebuild his career after overcoming years of a medical condition and resulting depression.

He crashed into her at his new job and sucked in every ounce of adoration and those quiet fantasy weekends when her xspouse had custody of their child at her house while we were told he was away on business's.

I took care of three children, an aging parent, two dogs and the damned cat.

sigh...she gave him six golf balls and a shirt.

I wish Ihad either the time or resources to shower affection and attention on him.

I wish he had not. Lost the inclination or desire during the affair. To shower me with affection or attention. he did not.

Ans my legs were shaved and nails polished the entire time!

Imagine that?

at least you didn't polish your legs and shave your nails

I really do sometimes wonder if there is anything a spouse could have done/ not have done to change a wayward spouses choices...

and there are some other men/women out there who truly are predatory...

just like anyone else, a wayward spouse can have things going on in their life that make them vulnerable, and there are some other men/women out there who take advantage of that ( i know, i know, most don't, but those that do do it very well)...I like to call it "planting seeds"...seeds of discourse are planted, and with a little time and effort, they soon bear fruit:laugh:

it was almost funny, as i went from ( when they first became "friends") being a good wife and mom, who was good to him and who he was proud of, and who did a lot of good things for him and who's always been there for him to being a terrible person ( by the time they were in a full blown affair)...

I think it's a little easier to rationalize an affair if one believes that the spouse at home has done something to deserve it

November 19, 2012

at least you didn't polish your legs and shave your nails

I really do sometimes wonder if there is anything a spouse could have done/ not have done to change a wayward spouses choices...

and there are some other men/women out there who truly are predatory...
just like anyone else, a wayward spouse can have things going on in their life that make them vulnerable, and there are some other men/women out there who take advantage of that ( i know, i know, most don't, but those that do do it very well)...I like to call it "planting seeds"...seeds of discourse are planted, and with a little time and effort, they soon bear fruit:laugh:
it was almost funny, as i went from ( when they first became "friends") being a good wife and mom, who was good to him and who he was proud of, and who did a lot of good things for him and who's always been there for him to being a terrible person ( by the time they were in a full blown affair)...

I think it's a little easier to rationalize an affair if one believes that the spouse at home has done something to deserve it

of course it is! Happens all the time....

MyfWS began to really distance himself from me, the family.

He PUSHED us away so he could continue to entertain the affair. We couldn't please him no matter how hard we tried.

Trust me, shaved legs, polished nails and even, sexy lingerie did not make a difference....THEN.

November 19, 2012

Perhaps I should ask H to shave his legs and paint his nails

November 19, 2012

When the affair was going on was when I had shaved legs and pitts every day.

I don't shave anymore, it's my mojo to prevent further affairs.

November 19, 2012

I was the Wife who kept up my appearence, took care of all the big things AND little things. Worked, volunteered, wore sexy lingerie and always looked good (still do).

I have put off More than a few advances from other men.

She (OW) tried to compete w/me but honestly there was zero competition to be had. It was always me, hands down, and I had NO idea! I just figured for whatever reason she just didn't like me* Crazy I know.

Husband just wanted some strange w/out consequence. Boy did that come back to bite him... she was Mad! Spent months And MONTHS trying to convince him how awful I was and how great she was. Then she tried to convince ME of it after it ended between them..

Sheesh! At the end of the day it was me he wanted even when I told him to go to her ( just like so many of you here)!

I feel bad for everyone in an A situation but more so for the OW who tries SO hard to compete when there is really no contest then spins it that the Wife should be doing her "job" better. It breaks my heart because no matter the reasoning or twist of justification, they have to wake up everyday KNOWING what they are doing is wrong, or else why say Anything ever?

November 19, 2012

The even playing field is about honesty. I find it hilarious that some OW can argue about the superficial grooming habits of a betrayed spouse or her inability to put a cheating husband on a pedestal as an explanation to their MM's wandering ways.

A man who hasn't the courage to leave his wife, but would rather cheat as a solution is mind boggling, but for some reason the OW buys it.

I truly believe that an even playing field is impossible as long as a WS has an OW who thinks they can provide what they are led to believe is missing from the MM's marriage. This sets the OW up where she falls into a trap, that if only he could see how much better she is than his wife he will pick her.

The only player with all the cards is the WS, the betrayed spouse and ow are not being dealt an honest hand.

November 19, 2012

The first thing people need to let go of is the idea that you can control someone else's choices.

You cannot love someone out of making bad decisions.

You cannot be an ever shifting fountain of fueling someone else's inner peace. Healthy grownups know that their best reflection comes from the good and kind choices they make, and the mark they leave on the world, not affirmatory mirroring from someone else.

With that being said -prior to and during the affair- I have always been an adoring and loving wife. I have always been quite well kept and pretty. Our Sex life was active and fantastic.

And all of those things- did not matter one whit when it came down to it.

That's the lesson people have got to own and know. You can make yourself insane trying to love someone out of bad decisions.

Brilliantly said!

My mom is currently with a serial cheater (my dad) because of this fallacy. She knew his ways before they married, yet believed if she was prettier, nicer, cooked better, more understanding etc. he would somehow transform into a faithful prince. Welll......if you've ready any of my other posts, you'll see how well that worked out!

That said, my mom learned the hard way, although I don't know if she really learned...and my dad's OW approach with the same rosy, sparkle in their eyes believing the same as she did, that HE isn't the problem, it's just my mom not loving him right. No one can convince them that no...it's really him.

That firsthand lesson and my own dating has taught me early on not to try to save any man from himself, love him into betterness or assign blame to anyone else but HIM for his transgressions. Sorry, that's a recipe for disaster most times.

November 19, 2012

When the affair was going on was when I had shaved legs and pitts every day.
I don't shave anymore, it's my mojo to prevent further affairs.

LMAO!

November 19, 2012

that's the ting I've been saying...

many other woman ( and I suppose other men too) are kind hearted, decent people who don't like the idea of hurting anyone ( a few aren't, but anyway...) seems that if they think of married guys wife at home, probably a nice person, probably not such a bad wife, probably doing her best and really doing nothing bad to deserve being lied to, yet her husband is cheating, then they are left with the fact that married man is being a jerk to his wife, so what does that say about him?

it's probably easier to believe that his wife must be doing something wrong to make him unhappy and want to cheat

November 19, 2012

that's the ting I've been saying...

many other woman ( and I suppose other men too) are kind hearted, decent people who don't like the idea of hurting anyone ( a few aren't, but anyway...) seems that if they think of married guys wife at home, probably a nice person, probably not such a bad wife, probably doing her best and really doing nothing bad to deserve being lied to, yet her husband is cheating, then they are left with the fact that married man is being a jerk to his wife, so what does that say about him?

it's probably easier to believe that his wife must be doing something wrong to make him unhappy and want to cheat

And I truly believe that this is the main reason OW do not return phone calls or insist the MM is responsible for his relationship with the BS after DDay.

Duck and cover AND do not burst my bubble fantasy of a neglectful, uncaring spouse.

Because if you do, I may actually realize the extent of his lying to me; might hear your pain of a woman betrayed by a man she loved.

I may actually have to realize it has all been a big, fat lie and I took part in hurting a sweet and unsuspecting woman.

So much easier to stay desensitized to the BS and continue in the affair, IMO.

November 20, 2012

Frozen;

I'm completely w/you!! I have to believe these OW have Some feeling so it's difficult when they spew venom of how it's on the wife who Most times have NO clue!

It's like there is a special switch that can turn off any and all compassion for a person as it would interfere w/that "wanted" feeling they get from the A...

November 20, 2012

I think that a lot of the 'not meeting their needs' comments are very stereotypical and remind me of a Stepford Wife scenario. Today, H is working outdoors cutting down trees, he will come home in around an hour or so for lunch and having his needs met by a bowl of hot, homemade soup and some home made bread will make him a very happy bunny. If at lunch time he came home and I was flouncing in my negligee or rubber he would love it, think I had lost the plot, but at that moment would opt for the hot soup. Tonight he will come home and after all the taking care of our animals tasks we share, and the favourite dinner and the going through some work he needs help with and then having a shared bath and sitting snuggled in front of the fire, sharing a whisky or two. Because his job today is heavy going, he will like nothing better than a back rub before he drops off to sleep.

Tomorrow may be a different scenario altogether and both his and my needs might veer more toward the negligee and/or rubber, however, we can pick and choose where and when and if for one moment I thought that his being here was reliant on my meeting his needs only, then he could go jog on. He would also hate to think I felt I had to be some sort of performing poodle just to keep his attention.

Reciprocity is the key to most relationships, shared responsibilities sometimes take precedence over having our needs met, but it is all part and parcel of the wonderful institution that is called marriage but in reality is all about commitment and reciprocity.

I have total respect for those people who are unhappy and have the self respect and respect for others to speak their mind and say, it's not working. Those who manage to keep up a facade so that the one they are with hasn't a clue anything is wrong, that takes a special sort of deceit and one has to wonder whose needs are being met?

November 20, 2012

I think that a lot of the 'not meeting their needs' comments are very stereotypical and remind me of a Stepford Wife scenario. Today, H is working outdoors cutting down trees, he will come home in around an hour or so for lunch and having his needs met by a bowl of hot, homemade soup and some home made bread will make him a very happy bunny. If at lunch time he came home and I was flouncing in my negligee or rubber he would love it, think I had lost the plot, but at that moment would opt for the hot soup. Tonight he will come home and after all the taking care of our animals tasks we share, and the favourite dinner and the going through some work he needs help with and then having a shared bath and sitting snuggled in front of the fire, sharing a whisky or two. Because his job today is heavy going, he will like nothing better than a back rub before he drops off to sleep.

Tomorrow may be a different scenario altogether and both his and my needs might veer more toward the negligee and/or rubber, however, we can pick and choose where and when and if for one moment I thought that his being here was reliant on my meeting his needs only, then he could go jog on. He would also hate to think I felt I had to be some sort of performing poodle just to keep his attention.
Reciprocity is the key to most relationships, shared responsibilities sometimes take precedence over having our needs met, but it is all part and parcel of the wonderful institution that is called marriage but in reality is all about commitment and reciprocity.

I have total respect for those people who are unhappy and have the self respect and respect for others to speak their mind and say, it's not working. Those who manage to keep up a facade so that the one they are with hasn't a clue anything is wrong, that takes a special sort of deceit and one has to wonder whose needs are being met?

This is a beautiful and spot on description of a mature and deep love. Perfectly stated.

November 20, 2012

I've had a think and asked H while he was scoffing his soup, I did offer the lingerie/rubber combo, but I lost out to soup!! Anyway, I am of the mind that during an A, the AP does meet some of needs of the WS, otherwise, why have an A? I am not of the mind that all A's are for sex, that would be a stereotype and I try not to assume all situations are the same. The original OP debated the even playing field and it is this that I really don't think either BS or AP can honestly say they have an even playing field, main difference being that the AP chooses to have that sort of relationship.

I am of the mind that D Day is the defining moment for most A's, the BS knowing is then in the position to say what they need or are prepared to accept. Very few are prepared to knowingly share the man or woman they love with another. I think a lot of the back and fro that goes on, particularly on this forum is that in the main, the BS who post and debate are now in the know. Have experienced the gaslighting during the A, the horror or relief of D Day (for me relief) and have drawn their line in the sand and said either go or stay, BUT there are certain things I (general) need to happen for the relationship to continue and that is when I think the game rules are evened and the WS has to choose which side he or she is really on or wants to be.

Trinity, for what it is worth, and I think I have said this before, the MM you are having a relationship is lucky that you have such absolute belief and conviction in both him and your relationship. I really don't know or understand how it is enough, but it is your reality and works for you. I just hope he tells his wife soon, so you do not have to share him, in whatever guise.

I couldn't do it, I have tried to understand the knowingly sharing thing and it makes no sense. I would so be a crap OW, I am far too demanding.

November 21, 2012

The majority of men that I've known (and have been with) are only TOO happy to get real lazy once they land a woman. All of a sudden, laying on the couch and watching Star Trek reruns is perfectly ok while the wife is running around cooking dinner, throwing in a load of laundry, making the kids' lunches for the next day, and dealing with the myriad of everyday little chores one deals with in the course of a day. Maybe the husband might help one of the kids with his math homework or read a chapter of a book with another. Maybe he'll take out the garbage or help the kids clean up their toys.

Big deal. That's hardly the amount of effort that's expended by the wife. And alot of these women work full time jobs on TOP of all the work they have at home.

Men seem to think that once they've put in their workday, their job is through. A workday for a woman is just PART of her workload for the day.

So here's a novel thought. When men actually PULL THEIR DAMNED WEIGHT equally and make the SAME effort their wives do, maybe then their wives might actually have more time to spend sitting at their feet adoring them and catering to the whims of these selfish fools.

And here's another novel thought - women who hate men and hold views about "men seem to think XYZ" or "men do ABC" stop seeing their H as an individual and see him only as a representative of that hated gender which exists to oppress them, and treat him in that way whether consciously or unconsciously, *making* him into the enemy by the way they that him. I've seen plenty of that IRL, and it's little wonder when men who live in this kind of war zone land up looking elsewhere for love and respect.

FTR, most men I know / have been with are not like this at all. OTC, they work hard at work and at home, doing easily their fair share or more. I guess we choose different kinds of men and as a result I don't hate men, or universalise them into one big "men are all lazy slobs" category. But seeing how my partner works so hard in his career, at home, keeping me happy and taking care of everyone else all the time I really can believe all the friends and family who said he did it all in his previous M, that she did nothing except lie around drinking tea and reading the paper and criticising what he did, putting in no effort herself at all. It's not always the men, or even always the WS, who is the lazy slob not investing in the M, the home or the family.

Edited November 21, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed comment that was inflammatory

November 21, 2012

Well of course I think the playing field should be even, as I expect most BSs would agree.

It's interesting that so many APs/OWs etc are the ones arguing against the idea of an even playing field. Or they suggest that there is no playing field or that there are 2 different playing fields, or that supposed neglect by the BW of her H's needs means she doesn't deserve an even playing field. Quite amazing really!

November 21, 2012

The majority of men that I've known (and have been with) are only TOO happy to get real lazy once they land a woman. All of a sudden, laying on the couch and watching Star Trek reruns is perfectly ok while the wife is running around cooking dinner, throwing in a load of laundry, making the kids' lunches for the next day, and dealing with the myriad of everyday little chores one deals with in the course of a day. Maybe the husband might help one of the kids with his math homework or read a chapter of a book with another. Maybe he'll take out the garbage or help the kids clean up their toys.

Big deal. That's hardly the amount of effort that's expended by the wife. And alot of these women work full time jobs on TOP of all the work they have at home.

Men seem to think that once they've put in their workday, their job is through. A workday for a woman is just PART of her workload for the day.

So here's a novel thought. When men actually PULL THEIR DAMNED WEIGHT equally and make the SAME effort their wives do, maybe then their wives might actually have more time to spend sitting at their feet adoring them and catering to the whims of these selfish fools.

Mmmm another men hating woman... Your way of generalizing disgust me... I don't know why any man would want to be with someone so disrespectful and pathetic!

Maybe man stop caring for their self around you because they are depressed to be with someone like you...

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