Even playing field?

[MsDecember]

I don't know who had posted something about evening the playing field?

 

Basically saying if the OW would announce hello I'm so and so and I fancy your husband and I plan to make him mine? I'm letting you know because its only fair that you get to pull out all your tricks and may the best woman win. I mean had I known I would have tried to be less tired, less sick, more interested in watching football!! Kidding, I am a awesome catch and he should have gotten his eyes checked!

 

But seriously, it's not fair to be in a competition for YOUR own man and to keep things as spicy as an OW when you have bills, kids, chores, and so on and so on.

 

If the same energy that was spent on getting into an affair was used to spice up the marriage than we wouldn't have as many BS would we now?

And one of my favorite quotes.

"Close your legs to married men"

 

If he wants you, make him work for it. Have him call you when he is already divorced and not before.

[Spark1111]

fBS here....more than 4 years after dday....and here is what WE learned in MC: It is NOT what you are getting from your marriage, rather it is what you are not giving that counts.

 

If my H had sent me flowers, told me he wanted me, couldn't wait to be with me, treated me respectfully, hung on my every word, adored me, winde and dined me and planned romantic weekends away with me, he would have been one very happy and continually satisfied man!

 

But he stopped seeing me as that person for quite a long time and let me take care of hearth, home, bills, kids, tuitions....and crashed into her!

 

He delegated me to the role of mother, caretaker, supporter, and not lover, woman, cherished spouse.

 

I could not seem to turn it around, grew bored, gave up, and continued upholding and shouldering all the responsibilites, while he crashed into her!

 

At dday, I threw him out, went to dance and art class, continued to work my full-time job, started writing again and getting attention for it, and said buh-bye.....hope you are happy with her.

 

He grew insanely jealous and started stalking me!

 

When the playing field was finally even, I was all he wanted.

 

Go figure.....

[Spark1111]

My family member was married to a man who was a real philanderer and narcissist.

 

His buisness became very successful, he was never home, and while we all suspected she knew, she looked the other way because her two sons hadd special needs and she needed his income for a while.

 

When it became an embarrassment as he became more emboldened to squire his younger mistress around, she finally moved to divorce.

 

Today, she is president of the school board, very powerful and important in the community, and intends to return to banking when they youngest is finally situated.

 

Him? He calls her all the time and I assume he has grown more than a little bored with his mistress, now wife, who does not want children and does not want to work as he is rich enough.

 

Some men want MORE that which they do not have or gave up.

 

Work on you. What do you want to achieve? Grow to? Be? in five or 10 years?

 

Remember the old adage? Living well is the BEST revenge. Start living well and the playing field WILL be evened...whether you are divorced or not.

[MsDecember]

I totally agree spark. Your first post was pretty close to my life and responsibilities.

 

I also think if I was wined and dined, flirted with, given the same effort and attention as the OW- my husband would have had the best of both worlds.

 

It's funny as after Dday, I was so emotional that I was writing him emails, trying to regain his affections. It wasn't until I kicked him out that he seemed to be the one emailing me, calling me. Asking me to lunch or wanting to stop by to drop something we didn't need off just to spend time with me.

 

I am glad I had the backbone, and said enough is enough. He wasn't a good person and I know I didn't enjoy worrying if he was where he said he was, doing what he said he was doing.

 

But I certainly think if a H gives his wife attention, he will get so much more in return.

[Furious]

The deck is stacked against the betrayed spouse as long as they are in the dark. The rules of the game have been changed without their knowledge and the betrayed spouse is in reality not even in the game.

 

The secrecy is the key ingredient that prevents a level playing field.

 

What an elaborate web that's weaved, and for what?

 

On d-day I handed him suitcase, it was that simple, why all the lies, what a waste of effort in lying, he was free to go, had always been free to go even sooner if I'd known.

 

I wanted him gone, really wanted him gone, it was not a ploy. Suddenly the affair went poof, once the secrecy was gone, and the affair was exposed to the light of day it died.

 

For crying out loud, an affair is not rocket science, I could have an affair every year if I wanted. The thing is, I guess I'm too secure in my self esteem that I don't crave external validation and I'm a terrible liar.

 

At the end of the day, my husband realized the person he lied to the most was himself.

[Spark1111]

  MsDecember said:

I totally agree spark. Your first post was pretty close to my life and responsibilities.

 

I also think if I was wined and dined, flirted with, given the same effort and attention as the OW- my husband would have had the best of both worlds.

 

It's funny as after Dday, I was so emotional that I was writing him emails, trying to regain his affections. It wasn't until I kicked him out that he seemed to be the one emailing me, calling me. Asking me to lunch or wanting to stop by to drop something we didn't need off just to spend time with me.

 

I am glad I had the backbone, and said enough is enough. He wasn't a good person and I know I didn't enjoy worrying if he was where he said he was, doing what he said he was doing.

 

But I certainly think if a H gives his wife attention, he will get so much more in return.

 

I also kept calmly asking him why he just didn't tell me? I loved him enough to let him go.

 

He thought I was here for the paycheck (HA!) didn't love him (HA!) and wouldn't give him a hard time (HA!).

 

I hadn't changed. He had, and she helped convince him of all those false, false projections at me.

 

I told him that if he had told me, I would have let him go, as I too deserved a man to wine and dine and cherish me, and I intended to find him and it wouldn't be too hard as I had been rebuffing advances all of our married life.

 

You should have seen the look on his face, as if it never dawned on him that I a) did not want his money, and b) just wanted what he thought he had with his AP...love, romance and consideration, and c) was not his mean mommy but a living, breathing, sexual woman.

 

He was stunned....and at that moment I knew he had stopped thinking of me as a woman with needs, needs that had been unfulfilled for a very long time.

 

I think for me, he was acting out some family of origin issue with mommy and the affair, other than being very punishing to my self-esteem, had very little to do with me or the marriage, and more to do with the childhood crap he was projecting on it.

 

Stay strong. Stay focused. And remember, your story is NOT unusual in that it is only when the war is over do the generals assess their true losses on the battlefield. And the loss they feel may be great, even if their pride never allows them to admit it.

 

Happens all the time. Live well for you!

[Decorative]

This thread reminds of the theory of the over benefitted partner. I know I sound like a broken record, but this is explained perfectly on Not Just Friends.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. The grass is greenest where you water it.

[Decorative]

  Spark1111 said:

I also kept calmly asking him why he just didn't tell me? I loved him enough to let him go.

 

He thought I was here for the paycheck (HA!) didn't love him (HA!) and wouldn't give him a hard time (HA!).

 

I hadn't changed. He had, and she helped convince him of all those false, false projections at me.

 

I told him that if he had told me, I would have let him go, as I too deserved a man to wine and dine and cherish me, and I intended to find him and it wouldn't be too hard as I had been rebuffing advances all of our married life.

 

You should have seen the look on his face, as if it never dawned on him that I a) did not want his money, and b) just wanted what he thought he had with his AP...love, romance and consideration, and c) was not his mean mommy but a living, breathing, sexual woman.

 

He was stunned....and at that moment I knew he had stopped thinking of me as a woman with needs, needs that had been unfulfilled for a very long time.

 

I think for me, he was acting out some family of origin issue with mommy and the affair, other than being very punishing to my self-esteem, had very little to do with me or the marriage, and more to do with the childhood crap he was projecting on it.

 

Stay strong. Stay focused. And remember, your story is NOT unusual in that it is only when the war is over do the generals assess their true losses on the battlefield. And the loss they feel may be great, even if their pride never allows them to admit it.

 

Happens all the time. Live well for you!

 

My spouse also has huge mommy issues. Therapy has revealed that his hole in the bucket bottom need for affirmation began in childhood with his cold as ice mama. No amount of love and affection from me was going to do it. He was unhappy inside.

 

Gosh- and the relationship with the OP was conversely bizarre. He would do things for her that I would do for him. It was like he modeled love and affection off my actions, but directed it towards her.

 

It's not an excuse. Lots of people have crappy childhoods and rise above it without hurting other people. He was not one of those people who could, not without a lot of help to understand his choices.

[Spark1111]

  MsDecember said:

I don't know who had posted something about evening the playing field?

 

Basically saying if the OW would announce hello I'm so and so and I fancy your husband and I plan to make him mine? I'm letting you know because its only fair that you get to pull out all your tricks and may the best woman win. I mean had I known I would have tried to be less tired, less sick, more interested in watching football!! Kidding, I am a awesome catch and he should have gotten his eyes checked!

 

But seriously, it's not fair to be in a competition for YOUR own man and to keep things as spicy as an OW when you have bills, kids, chores, and so on and so on.

 

If the same energy that was spent on getting into an affair was used to spice up the marriage than we wouldn't have as many BS would we now?

And one of my favorite quotes.

"Close your legs to married men"

 

If he wants you, make him work for it. Have him call you when he is already divorced and not before.

 

So, so true...but think hard on this...what type of woman wants a MM?

 

Someone with issues of their own, dont'cha think? And I am amazed by the number of women represented on these boards alone who were cheated on in marriage and then went on to justify becoming OW.

 

I think it is empowering for a victim to go onto the role of abuser. It is classic in psych annals.

 

Who waits by the phone for crumbs of time or affection? A very needy and insecure person; one who will pull out every stop to convince someone that they are the better choice, the better steward of their needs.

 

How sad is that? Let me dump the kids, clean the house, shave my legs and put on the matching lingerie so I can service his wants and needs in 10 minutes. Yikes! Who wants to live like that and call it love?

 

Think of the arroagance displayed to the BS. Why? Because arrogance masks insecurity. It is a defense mechanism.

 

There will never be an even playing field for those who want what you have/had: A man who has done a long term, committed relationship like marriage and has supported a wife and a family. A proven man.

 

And maybe not today, or next year, but in time you will find that very sad that someone lives every day with that insecurity and low self-esteem.

 

Kind of like an obedient lap dog, like my cousin says today. He is still travelling, on the phone constantly drumming up his business, and she is loading the luggage into the limo.

[beenburned]

Yes, an uneven playing field is totally unfair.

 

But I was more enraged that there was a game at all!

 

On d-day, I took myself out of the game and his life!

 

I was going to have all or nothing.

[waterwoman]

Quite.

 

The number of times on here I have read that there must have been something missing in his marriage and from his wife..... well you can bet your bottom dollar that the wife was also aware that something was missing from her marriage and from her husband but she didn't decide to have an affair to boost her ego and 'get her needs met'.

 

Wouldn't we all like to be seduced and seductive, to be sparkling and exciting? Yep. But generally there is a load of boring domestic cr*p to be waded through first - and good men realise that does not mean it's OK to cheat - better to wade in and help the spouse to get through it quicker and then free her up to sparkle and seduce! Even domestic drudges need to be cherished

[cocorico]

  MsDecember said:

I don't know who had posted something about evening the playing field?

 

Basically saying if the OW would announce hello I'm so and so and I fancy your husband and I plan to make him mine? I'm letting you know because its only fair that you get to pull out all your tricks and may the best woman win. I mean had I known I would have tried to be less tired, less sick, more interested in watching football!! Kidding, I am a awesome catch and he should have gotten his eyes checked!

 

But seriously, it's not fair to be in a competition for YOUR own man and to keep things as spicy as an OW when you have bills, kids, chores, and so on and so on.

 

 

Huh? You're only prepared to put in effort to keep your M interesting if you know there's someone else interested? That would certainly explain why some MM feel they are taken for granted, despite all the effort they make from their side!

 

FTR, OWs also have chores, kids, bills etc and still manage to show interest in the MM. Why can they manage it, but not the BS?

 

Some Ws manage just fine, without excuses. We have friends who were H'S sweethearts. She takes trouble to look good, makes an effort, remains interesting and interested, and he's never had the slightest inclination to look anywhere else because he doesn't have to. He appreciates her effort and reciprocates likewise. She has never felt smug nor entitled nor complacent. And neither has he. He knows how lucky he is, and so does she. It's a very different attitude to the "I have chores and kids and bills and he doesn't romance me so,why should I try" attitude so many BSs express, quite ignoring that their H's have the same or more chores, bills, kid issues etc and would appreciate a little romancing themselves, and so when they get it elsewhere they respond. If they'd had that attention and interest from their spouse in the first place they'd have responded to her instead of the OW, as I've seen.

[woinlove]

  cocorico said:

some MM feel they are taken for granted, despite all the effort they make from their side!

....

If they'd had that attention and interest from their spouse in the first place they'd have responded to her instead of the OW

 

I don't agree with the bolded statements. I have come to think that the decision to cheat lies within the individual making that decision. As I said elsewhere, one person may decide to cheat if X,Y or Z happens while another will decide not to cheat even if X,Y, and Z all happen. It comes down to the individual and their choices.

 

Also, having been married for 25 years, I agree with Spark's message that much marital happiness follows from what one gives of oneself to the M and the love one gives to one's spouse. When you are giving a lot to your M, you are engaged in the R and so that is where your focus is.

 

Like the OP, I do agree that secrecy plays a special dynamic in affairs. In an open M, the fact that the spouse is fully in the loop, makes a big difference, both in the M and in any external R. Remove all the secrecy and deception and I think the dynamic changes for all 3 parties.

[MissBee]

  MsDecember said:

I don't know who had posted something about evening the playing field?

 

Basically saying if the OW would announce hello I'm so and so and I fancy your husband and I plan to make him mine? I'm letting you know because its only fair that you get to pull out all your tricks and may the best woman win. I mean had I known I would have tried to be less tired, less sick, more interested in watching football!! Kidding, I am a awesome catch and he should have gotten his eyes checked!

 

But seriously, it's not fair to be in a competition for YOUR own man and to keep things as spicy as an OW when you have bills, kids, chores, and so on and so on.

 

If the same energy that was spent on getting into an affair was used to spice up the marriage than we wouldn't have as many BS would we now?

And one of my favorite quotes.

"Close your legs to married men"

 

If he wants you, make him work for it. Have him call you when he is already divorced and not before.

 

To the bold...that's really all.

 

Don't support cake-eating.

 

If this man legitimately wants out of his marriage and wants you....make a clearly defined boundary, if you want me, get a divorce. It's up to him.

 

But if he can have you without divorcing, while still being married, while promising something in the future...then it's not hard to see how you're enabling cake-eating.

 

As for competing for your own man... I'm not in the business of competing for any man, least of all my own husband. Most BS's know nothing of the A, so the competition factor would be solely on the OW who knows about her and is coming in to an already established situation.

[MissBee]

  cocorico said:

Huh? You're only prepared to put in effort to keep your M interesting if you know there's someone else interested? That would certainly explain why some MM feel they are taken for granted, despite all the effort they make from their side!

 

FTR, OWs also have chores, kids, bills etc and still manage to show interest in the MM. Why can they manage it, but not the BS?

 

Some Ws manage just fine, without excuses. We have friends who were H'S sweethearts. She takes trouble to look good, makes an effort, remains interesting and interested, and he's never had the slightest inclination to look anywhere else because he doesn't have to. He appreciates her effort and reciprocates likewise. She has never felt smug nor entitled nor complacent. And neither has he. He knows how lucky he is, and so does she. It's a very different attitude to the "I have chores and kids and bills and he doesn't romance me so,why should I try" attitude so many BSs express, quite ignoring that their H's have the same or more chores, bills, kid issues etc and would appreciate a little romancing themselves, and so when they get it elsewhere they respond. If they'd had that attention and interest from their spouse in the first place they'd have responded to her instead of the OW, as I've seen.

 

 

It seems most often the degradation of a relationship is hardly ever a one-way street.

 

Your post is apologetic and defends the cheating ways of MM as a response to something their spouse is not doing. This is a problematic assumption IMO...as it makes another's happiness and choices rest squarely on their partner. I can see how some women who have this mentality run themselves amok attempting to be perfect so their man doesn't stray. Then when a man still does....women internalize it as if they only did xyz instead of putting the blame on their spouse's decision making. It reminds me of the highly patriarchal culture I'm from, where men cheating is rampant, and most often in popular culture people don't hold these men accountable but other women themselves chastise or act superior to each other saying "you should know how to keep your man"...it is very twisted and ignorant and makes men the supreme kings who should be constantly serviced and happy and when they lie and deceive, it is not their fault, but it's turned back on women. It's very sick and backward.

 

Men (and women) cheat on all kinds of people in all kinds of states of marriage. On LS here, married OW and MM have come here saying they are "happily married" and in As. They are not blaming their spouse for looking frumpy, not giving them sex, too many chores etc..for all intents and purpose they have no obvious complaints. Yet here they are, in an A. What was a BS supposed to have done to prevent that?

 

I think one should be careful of being one-sided in automatically feeling bad for a MM cheating and assuming poor dear, his needs aren't being met, he had no choice....and instead be very suspicious about whether or not he is meeting the needs of his spouse as well. If you're not his spouse, you can't even know this. As no outside person can say yes he's meeting her needs, she just doesn't appreciate it . Only the BS can know that frankly.

 

I think everyone should make the necessary effort to make their marriages "interesting", yet it becomes very problematic when you believe that that's gonna stop a man from cheating or have wandering eyes. Some cheating is indeed about "variety" and "strange" and poor boundaries. As the reality is, even if married and inlove, most times you will still be attracted to others. People who don't cheat is not because their spouse does everything right so they have eyes for no one else and have no attraction to to others, but because they don't feed that attraction, even if they're having a bad day or a rough patch. My dad is a serial cheater and my mom would have a "right" to cheat on him by now, yet she has not. What explains that? If two people are in a marriage and only one is cheating, is the assumption that the cheating one is the one who is a "victim of the bad marriage" so that's their only reprieve? What differentiates the partners who choose to cheat from those who are in the SAME marriage, who also may not be satisfied but who don't respond in that way?

 

Those in As feed the attraction, and that explains some of the "happily married As"...they are not out of love with their spouse or tallying up all the spouse isn't doing, they just have attraction for others that they've chosen to feed and there is nothing a BS can do to police that. My A was like this. He made it clear he loved her and loved me too. He never spun it as though she was not doing xyz and I was doing it better etc. I would frankly hate to always have to be on high alert. I'm going to treat you well and be me, but I'm not trying to marry an infant, who can't control his impulses and who if he lacks attention for a moment or isn't coddled for a second, he is going to run off and find it elsewhere.

Edited November 18, 2012 by MissBee

[Furious]

Coco

 

Cheaters come in all shapes and sizes and from young to old, and they're all not super models. To infer that a WS cheats because their spouse is lacking in attraction, or not being interesting enough compared to the OW/OM is a narrow stereotype.

 

There are many examples of handsome successful men who've been cheated on, and just as many beautiful successful women who've been cheated on.

 

Cheaters cheat for many reasons, and many of those reasons are about themselves rather than pinning the the blame on their spouse.

[alexandria35]

  cocorico said:

Huh? You're only prepared to put in effort to keep your M interesting if you know there's someone else interested? That would certainly explain why some MM feel they are taken for granted, despite all the effort they make from their side!

 

FTR, OWs also have chores, kids, bills etc and still manage to show interest in the MM. Why can they manage it, but not the BS?

 

Because the OW knows she's competing for the MM.

[cocorico]

  alexandria35 said:

Because the OW knows she's competing for the MM.

 

Which was my point. Those BS are only prepared to put in the effort if they know there is a "competition". They couldn't be arsed to make the effort otherwise. I'm sure most spouses M to someone so complacent and entitled are vulnerable to someone who can actually be bothered to show a little interest.

[MissBee]

  alexandria35 said:

Because the OW knows she's competing for the MM.

 

Logically.

 

Also, if you're the OW you don't live with him and often can't see him anytime you like, so you're gonna put in the effort all new dating relationships entail. It's also like LDRs, in that naturally if you don't see your often it is more exciting and reach reunion sees special effort.

 

Those are the logical answers to that question. Let's refer to the OW turned wives who then turned BSs. What happened there? Did they just neglect to be as exciting as when they were the OW? That's a lot of pressure.

[alexandria35]

  cocorico said:

Which was my point. Those BS are only prepared to put in the effort if they know there is a "competition". They couldn't be arsed to make the effort otherwise. I'm sure most spouses M to someone so complacent and entitled are vulnerable to someone who can actually be bothered to show a little interest.

 

You talk in such absolutes. Do you honestly believe that every single person that's been cheated on brought it on themselves? That has not been the case in what I have observed in my real life at all. Of the couples I know where infidelity has occured, with only one exception, all of the cheaters were the self entitled selfish ones in the relationship all along even before the cheating occured. In one case the husband was also a physical abuser and cheated on his wife constantly. When she finally got strong enough to leave him for real his new gf b*tched about his wife and blamed her entirely the failure of the marriage. When we tried ever so gently to clue her in to who her bf really was she wouldn't hear of it. Said even if the things we were saying were somewhat true it was still because the wife didn't understand him and know how to treat him. Less then a year later she was being physically abused and cheated on by him.

 

I'm not saying all betrayed spouses are saints who are married to evil cheaters. I'm sure sometimes the betrayed spouse was truly awful to be married to, but why can't you concede that some people just cheat because they want to and that sometimes the betrayed spouse was actually the better partner in the relationship.

[MissBee]

  alexandria35 said:

You talk in such absolutes. Do you honestly believe that every single person that's been cheated on brought it on themselves? That has not been the case in what I have observed in my real life at all. Of the couples I know where infidelity has occured, with only one exception, all of the cheaters were the self entitled selfish ones in the relationship all along even before the cheating occured. In one case the husband was also a physical abuser and cheated on his wife constantly. When she finally got strong enough to leave him for real his new gf b*tched about his wife and blamed her entirely the failure of the marriage. When we tried ever so gently to clue her in to who her bf really was she wouldn't hear of it. Said even if the things we were saying were somewhat true it was still because the wife didn't understand him and know how to treat him. Less then a year later she was being physically abused and cheated on by him.

 

I'm not saying all betrayed spouses are saints who are married to evil cheaters. I'm sure sometimes the betrayed spouse was truly awful to be married to, but why can't you concede that some people just cheat because they want to and that sometimes the betrayed spouse was actually the better partner in the relationship.

 

It's interesting to note the clear bias in some view points, where the credibility then becomes questionable, as there never seems to be any type of balanced outlook, but always an over sympathizing with the cheaters and only ever seeing it in light of views that make the cheater blameless or vulnerable.

 

In any case, to use my own dad as an example, his latest OW told my mom she had a "good man" and she "didn't appreciate him" and "pamper him", my sister and I about died.... Was it the dad we've known over 2 decades and lived with day in and out and saw his daily behavior???? This woman who just met him for a few months and is seeing his clearly "sweet affair side" really believed she knew something and could speak for his "true nature" LMAO! Ma'am...have a seat, and let's school YOU! Because clearly you've just gotten aboard a fraction of this ship and don't know the half.

 

My mom also had a chuckle at that, as this latest OW, for one, assumed she was the first woman he had cheated with and also turned it into a competition where she believed she could do some imagined thing my mom wasn't doing, better. Poor dear didn't realize she was the flavor of this month and no matter how exciting she was, my dad had cheated before, will cheat after and will never go on to be with her full time. She really thought she was schooling my mom there....and my response was, I wish he would be with her permanently so that she'd have to eat her words when she eventually realizes he simply cannot be faithful to ANYONE! No matter how exciting and pampering they are. My mom actually bends over backwards for my dad, far more than I ever would, and he doesn't offer the same to her at all, what he offers is infidelity. So please explain this....he is the entitled selfish one in his romantic relationship and even as a father...is it possible that some cheaters, like him, simply have flawed personalities that influence all areas and that flaw is not BECAUSE of others...but their own thing that predates their current relationship? His own entitlement and selfishness thus predisposes him to cheating. Or is that too scary to think? What happens when you acknowledge this? It seems some cannot acknowledge this, but to their own detriment.

 

I can only imagine the deep sense of inadequacy one feels when one internalizes a cheater's cheating as one's own fault. It's like kids who believe they did something bad why a cheating parent leaves to have another family and if only they were better, ate all their dinner, didn't take an extra cookie etc. It's plainly irrational when a child does this but it is no different than a spouse also internalizing the blame, if I only wore sexier outfits, if only I did not yell at him that day, if only etc. It's insane. I'm not saying that partners don't have an effect on each other and that one cannot neglect a spouse...of course you can! But I think it's an incredibly narrow minded view to believe that most As are because of this..as you said, the absolutes of which coco seems to be speaking, as if surely all or most As are this way seems suspicious to me. From my own experience, both in an A, and with a cheating dad, it wasn't at all about them cheating because of their SO not being arsed...but their own desire to do so for their own messed up reasons.

Edited November 18, 2012 by MissBee

[waterwoman]

In our case it was an accretion of small resentments that built up over the years with both working full-time, 3 children, one with learning difficulties, not enough money to pay for help, not enough money full-stop at times! Life was relentless. But both were unhappy, both felt unloved and unappreciated, only one cheated. Why?

 

Since d-day I have over the months become the wife I used to be years ago, not because I have been taught a lesson by a more appreciative ow, but because he has been more the sort of husband he used to be, the husband who loved me unconditionally and made me know that day after day after day.

 

Regarding ow who work miracles by being loving and passionate in the way that the poor insipid wives fail to do... Perhaps that is comparing apples and oranges. A friend of ours is now married to the man she had an affair with. by the time they had this affair their children were all in their late teens or older, money problems were a thing of the past. She was able to lavish all her time and attention on her guy and probably made him feel like a god.

[cocorico]

  alexandria35 said:

You talk in such absolutes. Do you honestly believe that every single person that's been cheated on brought it on themselves?

 

Of course not. Nor did my post suggest such a thing. It referred to a subset of BS, as characterised in the opening post, of BS that could not be arsed to make an effort until they realise there is a "competition".

 

Which was what I said:

 

 

  cocorico said:

Which was my point. Those BS are only prepared to put in the effort if they know there is a "competition". They couldn't be arsed to make the effort otherwise. I'm sure most spouses M to someone so complacent and entitled are vulnerable to someone who can actually be bothered to show a little interest.

 

"Those BS". Not "every BS".

[seren]

I am sure that sometimes there are marriages where the two people get so caught up in the day to day they forget to make time for each other, rather than their marital roles, as in wife, mother, carer etc. Both in the marriage can be as guilty of this as the other, it can be very difficult to be all things to all people and I am sure there are as many marriages that settle into a comfortable relationship filled with love but the romantic side slips. That is life, it takes two inputting into a relationship to make it work and often both are more than happy with where they are at and if not, then one would have to ask, why they stay?

 

If the A relationship is so wonderful, why stay married, why not leave? If an A provides an aspect that is missing in the marriage, doesn't having an A enable the WS to remain married? I truly don't understand this and don't understand why the AP wouldn't say if I am all that and the marriage is not, then leave and wouldn't have any respect for the WS who continues with both. I understand that there are some marriages that are broken and that some A's are based upon meeting the person they will be happier with and go on to have wonderful marriages or relationships with their AP, but I cannot shift the thinking that if BS is that bad, then leave, simple and it is simple, not easy, but simple, despite the money, house, kids etc. I have been married three times and when I no longer loved my XH's, I left.

 

Shifting responsibility for keeping the relationship alive within a marriage is the responsibility and business of the people who are married, it might help an AP to blame shift and explain the A by saying that the BS is doing something wrong or not doing anything right. That is up to the couple in the marriage and frankly, nothing to do with the AP, after all as many have said their marriage, their business and no one knows what goes on in the marriage or marital bed, better than them. I also wonder at the idea that marriage is all about passion, sex and clean floors. This is so not how I view it or experience it, if it were that simple BS the world over would only have to don the frillies and get in a cleaner and I am sure that many AP would be insulted to think they were there simply to fill a void left by the bad BS. Fact is, it suits the WS to remain married, I would wonder more about being with someone who could maintain a facade of loving spouse/partner so that the BS doesn't know and wonder just how much of what he/she said was true.

 

There is no even playing field, no competition as it isn't a game and D Day could give the perfect opportunity for the WS to go get their man or woman, but in the main they don't and the amount of work they put into keeping this so called awful BS is staggering - I wonder at AP who stay after D Day and those who are quick to point the finger at the BS, in general, we only know we are BS after the A has been ongoing for some time or on D Day, you have to know there is a problem before it can be fixed. Why the WS doesn't say there is a problem, truthfully and honestly is beyond me, if the WS presents the same face, still says and shows love, lust and like, unless the BS is a mind reader she will assume that the marriage is just the way the WS likes it.

[waterwoman]

"Sometimes, the boring domestic crap can wait, and sometimes YOU are the only one that even cares if it gets done.

Sometimes it should wait, the dishes will still be there in the morning but if you have a night when the kids went to bed quick and easy, why on earth wouldn't you take advantage of some couple time? Being passionate and loving with one another is what BUILDS a relationship. Why would you let that slide? Stop being a domestric drudge. He doesn't love you because the floor was mopped, he loves you because he loves you. Trust me he won't notice if you skip a day of vacumming. "

 

Oh beleive me, my house isn't exactly spotless. Martha Stewart I am not . I am talking about the basics - getting that mornings dishes washed so we can eat, cooking a good meal for us all - frozen pizza might be OK once in a while but not every night, making packed lunches for the next day for 4 people, walking the dog, helping with homework, dealing every day with a child with learning difficulties that will not negotiate or compromise, who argues black is white, who rarely sleeps before 10pm, with an H who shouts at the children regularly, and then stomps off to the pub to get away from us. I could excuse his occasional bad temper - he has a very emotionally stressful job - I could put up with his laziness around the house as it was nothing new, I could not put up with his cheating.

 

Beleive me I thought about leaving many many times but I was a drowning woman who had neither the energy nor motivation to make any decisions. I was on anti-depressants because I couldn't seem to shift my mood, I was near suicidal. In fact my lowest point came at the time he was embarking on his little romance I did try, many times, to bridge the gap between us but when the effort is one-sided it fails.

 

It's hard to feel passionate about a man who seems to have no time for you, and to care so little. WHen you have children who love you to bits and tell you that time and again, and hug you and kiss you. Strangely enough I found I enjoyed their company more than his after a while....

 

I was on autopilot. And he had an affair. With a woman who was to him only what he saw in work, she shared with him the bits she wanted to, he never saw her first thing in the morning, they never bickered over housework, their relationship was all hearts and flowers. It was simply not a level playing field.

 

It seems to me that we were both unhappy. Why was the onus on me to fix it? Why was an affair a reasonable response to our issues?