Desesitized because of Affair?!

[ComingInHot]

So I've read a lot here and something that I've noticed is that when it comes right down to ALL parties involved, it seems they become desensitized to one another.

The WS is Less compassionate towards his family and angers and frustrates more easily. The OW/OM feels Zero compassion for the Spouse, children and family. The BS whether she/he knows or not (I'm thinking "not" here) justifies the behavior of WS as more stressed and/or busy due to work or stage of family dynamics at the time.

 

I wonder if ALL parties were to embrace their compassionate, empathetic, sensitive side, would the affair stop before it starts or end early on?

 

I have read the (remember this is coming from a BS here) Love and frustration and hurt that most parties feel during and after an A, but I fail to see compassion & empathy at work (save for a few). Why is that?!

[Decorative]

I am trying to understand - the BS should do what to be more compassionate?

 

I think I see where you are going, but I am trying to make sure I understand.

 

Personally- in my relationship- I made too many excuses for bad behavior in his part , and stuffed down that voice inside that was saying " something is wrong". Because of my bias towards expected truth from him, to a degree, I enabled the gaslighting. Which I did not see clearly at the time. Now? I cringe at what I accepted.

 

Extending compassion prior to the affair wasn't an issue. As Glass states in her book, my spouse was the over benefitted partner.

 

I lost a huge amount of weight I didn't have to lose from stress. I twisted myself into a pretzel to make things calm and peaceful around the house. I worked as hard as I knew how to, to try and fix what was wrong ( the majority of this was during the false recovery). I embraced him when I should have stood up and demanded better. And when I finally figured out that it was a false recovery , and stood up for myself- that was the day my life started to improve.

[ComingInHot]

Decorative;

Yes. You got what I'm saying. I know I tried to be compassionate and empathetic towards my husband by trying to understand that his frustration &short-temper overall sh#$$yness was due to the amount of work he was putting in and pressure he was under to make our business viable. Didn't know it wasn't work he was "putting it in " though...

 

His OW had NO empathy or Compassion at all for me or our children. Still doesn't.

 

Husband had zero empathy or compassion for me or our kids either, even though I was working w/him during the day, taking work home and taking care of kids and home**

[Decorative]

Ah. So we stand on the same ugly historical page. Sigh.

[Decorative]

Good point!

 

I feel compassion towards my husband as he realized what he had done, genuinely repented and turned the world upside down to make it right.

 

In the beginning, I held more compassion towards the OW, but she is a serial OW, and she has stalked me, lied to her parents about me, and had her parents contact me. She cannot seem to view herself as anything other than a victim- and because I have seen no evidence of growth or genuine repentance from her, I don't feel much compassion for her. She is a broken human being, but after speaking to people who have known her forever, such as her sister, I see that this is who she is.

 

So towards her ? I hold the wish that she gets help before she wastes her life, but I mostly feel indifference. And an occasional flare of anger when she attempts contact, but it usually settles back to indifference quickly .

[Steadfast]

Personally- in my relationship- I made too many excuses for bad behavior in his part, and stuffed down that voice inside that was saying " something is wrong". Because of my bias towards expected truth from him, to a degree, I enabled the gaslighting. Which I did not see clearly at the time. Now? I cringe at what I accepted.

 

Yes, me too. I don't think it's ever wise to reward bad behavior. But I did.

 

I do sometimes wonder what my ex's lovers thought...if they really understood what they were taking part in and just how much damage and pain they were helping to cause. But only a fool would think anyone getting involved with someone's spouse feels empathy. Not before anyway, when the lust is boiling. Maybe after. Yes...often after, now that I think of it. Mostly I think, the OM/OW justifies it by assuming if the spouse was 'doing their job', they wouldn't be needed. It's an evil double-wammy and they're basing everything on a one sided story.

 

I haven't read your history OP, but something tells me you reconciled. While it's a nice thought to walk around singing 'All you Need is Love', my experience tells me love is the farthest thing from a cheater's mind.

 

Real love that is.

[beenburned]

Decorative,

 

Your post clearly represents how our household was during my H's cheating.

 

However, I did listen to my little voice, and repeatedly ask H what was wrong. He always said nothing and walked away. He continued to lie straight to my face for about a year.

 

I didn't have time to check up on him, or verify if he was lying, due to being very busy with 2 small children. He worked 40 miles away from our home and all his cheating occurred during regular work hours.(on lunch hour or immediately before/after work)

 

I will be forever grateful for the co-worker's wife that called me up and told me the truth!

[cocorico]

So I've read a lot here and something that I've noticed is that when it comes right down to ALL parties involved, it seems they become desensitized to one another.

The WS is Less compassionate towards his family and angers and frustrates more easily. The OW/OM feels Zero compassion for the Spouse, children and family. The BS whether she/he knows or not (I'm thinking "not" here) justifies the behavior of WS as more stressed and/or busy due to work or stage of family dynamics at the time.

 

I wonder if ALL parties were to embrace their compassionate, empathetic, sensitive side, would the affair stop before it starts or end early on?

 

I have read the (remember this is coming from a BS here) Love and frustration and hurt that most parties feel during and after an A, but I fail to see compassion & empathy at work (save for a few). Why is that?!

 

I think the issue of desensitisation is an interesting one.

 

 

Does this relate to how any of us are IRL? I can't speak for those I don't know, but most people have friends, colleagues and family who are BS, WS and OM/OW among them, without any of the kind of drama or hostility you see enacted here. I'm sure many of the most vehement advocates on all sides have perfectly good, loving, compassionate Rs IRL with friends / family / colleagues who happen to fall on a different "side", because we know those people as people rather than just as names representing a position.

 

Asking whether engaging more compassion would affect an A raises more particular issues, though. The OWs/OMs, WSs and BSs one knows IRL one knew as friend, colleague, family member first, and their A role became an add-on to the already extant R. The BS an OW / OM encounters through their A, or vice versa, is typically encountered in that role. That is the first, and determining thing you learn about them. And that then largely shapes what follows. You don't get the same opportunity to form an R based around enjoying the same movies, working in the same department, running for the same club or sharing a grandmother. Instead, you're already cast on opposite sides by the structural factor of simultaneously being in parallel Rs with the same person. I'm not suggesting that people cannot get beyond that, clearly some do, but the structural disposition leads to a situation of othering rather than compassion.

 

On the bolded, though - I don't know if that generalisation can be made that far. I would certainly agree that the OW demonstrates an absence of compassion for the BS, if only through not sparing her a moment's thought, but I would disagree that this invariably encompasses children and family too. Many OW get vicariously involved in the lives of the children, some physically too, and this may extend to the rest of the family also, as well as to friends.

 

While my own case may not be typical, I was a regular (welcomed) guest at family gatherings during the A, and became great friends with his siblings, and forged really close Rs with his parents, including caring for his terminally ill father. Even back then, I was very much part of the family, and certainly did not lack compassion towards them.

 

WRT the BW, I'm afraid that starting off from a position of neutrality, the more I got to know of her, the less I liked her, which had at least as much to do with her behaviour (towards her kids, towards her colleagues, towards his friends and family, and towards him) as it did the fact that she was the BW. Any possible compassion I may hypothetically have been able to muster was strangled by the reality of who she is. Other OWs whose MMs had better judgment in selecting their first Ws have less of an obstacle to face in that regard, or are able to draw on deeper reserves of goodwill toward people they dislike, but I readily acknowledge my limitations in that area and choose instead to invest my goodwill in the millions of people i might, or already do, like and respect.

 

So I think it really does depend on individual circumstances, IRL, but the picture you're likely to see on LS will be skewed, on all sides, because of the prevailing dynamic here.

Edited November 20, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed comment about attacks

[ComingInHot]

I guess I think of how, when the OW told me (after it had already ended) bad I felt for her and me. I mean of all the lies he told both us, he completely used her w/no intention of leaving. I told her how hurt I was for both of us and that he would feel my wrath. The OW in turn started lambasting me w/personal attacks. I was really thrown as she emailed under the guise of an apology... It blows my mind to this day that someone who showed so much hate, love, jealousy, had no feelings of compassion and empathy.

More unfortunate was/is that my husband was just like her and after his A was brought to light, he still had difficulty seeing my pain and understanding what I was going through.

 

Side comment: Even w/counseling he can be completely uncompassionate. He is working on more than just marriage building but also anger management but still tries to find ways to make things my fault. It's like he sometimes tries to justify his actions prior, during and present.

 

[2sure]

I had compassion for some of his OW, those that believed his lies because they needed to. In fact, his part in that is what made me really and finally realize he was not going to be "fixed".

 

I still have compassion for him because I still believe we were something special together and I know he loved me. I adored him and miss him. I'm sorry I could not make him happy with himself.

 

I was OW myself, before I married him. Before I understood the intricacies of an intimate relationship. At the time I had no positive or healthy experiences to refer to. I thought relationships were, at best, useful.

 

Im sorry for not having the common sense to know that a family and a marriage can be a delicate thing and its parts too important to each other for me to pull one out and use when I felt like it.

 

I have compassion and empathy and admiration in spades for any one brave enough to get back in the water. I just can't.

[ComingInHot]

I guess I just don't understand how the two engaging in an A and have SO much emotion can not have compassion or empathy.?!

Regardless of what lies were told and accepted as truth, how can one NOT Feel for the person they KNOW they are lying, keeping secrets from, betraying and hurting? Especially when they KNOW how much it would hurt them if the roles were reversed!!

[Spark1111]

I guess I just don't understand how the two engaging in an A and have SO much emotion can not have compassion or empathy.?!

Regardless of what lies were told and accepted as truth, how can one NOT Feel for the person they KNOW they are lying, keeping secrets from, betraying and hurting? Especially when they KNOW how much it would hurt them if the roles were reversed!!

 

Selfisness and compartmentalism. If just feels better and is so much more enjoyable if the unknowing spouses are demonized or relegated to the unimportant or ignored.

 

Look at the Petraeus scandal. The wife was never an issue. But the potential threat of a potential OOW just about unhinged Paula Broadwell.

 

Happens all the time.

[Steadfast]

For lack of a better description, you seem to be asking why people engaging in evil can't be nicer about it? Like a kind thief, or a compassionate mugger.

 

Fact: There is a sexual/emotional thrill gained by speeding down the wrong side of the road. Almost in every case, the betrayer needed excitement or drama. To feel desirable? Attractive again? To feel alive? It is hard for those not interested in using someone's feelings to understand how or why someone that we thought loved us could do this, but obviously, they do. Whatever, the action is usually justified and if possible, the blame shifted.

 

1) They want what they want. They are entitled. They deserve happiness. The media promotes this thinking, and more of the world's population takes the position of it being 'unfair' to 'judge' someone who is simply acting on base instinct. Support usually comes from those who are like-minded.

 

2) They don't want guilt or experience the consequences of their actions, so they blame the easiest person to blame. The spouse. Wrong? Yes, but is it that surprising? They've already demonstrated a lack of character by lying and cheating to begin with, what's a couple more lies piled on top? As we all know, one lie needs another. Until you're whole life is wrapped in lies.

 

When you stop and consider the whirlwind of emotions and stress involved in cheating, is it any wonder there's no room for kindness or empathy? But when everything falls apart, you can be sure they'll demand it. Don't judge!

 

I'd suggest you stop trying to figure out your husband and his lover, and concentrate on establishing boundaries that enable you to live the kind of life you want. A person only changes when they desire to change. It's all up to us.

[ComingInHot]

Steadfast;

I actually am moving on...

I guess it's not so much trying to figure out "my" husband and his exOW, it's the mentality in general I am curious about.

I get that I am the way I am and I DO consider how my actions affect others it is just difficult to see how others don't have that...

[2sure]

It's my opinion that many OW become so when they are at a particularly vulnerable time of their lives. MOst women that are secure, strong, and stable will only accept a relationship with an available man. It doesn't excuse women, but gives a possibility.

 

Some MM are very good at picking out vulnerable women and makng them feel special.

 

Others are very good at building up to an affair by taking time to convince a woman that he is some kind of victim of his marriage, like his wife is nuts or can't take care of the kids so he has to be a martyr.

 

On the other hand, there are OW, and I've known them...who wouldn't consider a relationship with a single man. They don't want a real relationship. Others are husband shopping and thats usually a money thing.

 

It takes all kinds of OW and all kinds of husbands. Which kind a husband ends up with is up to him.

[ComingInHot]

lol, which begs the question, do mm have radar for women vulnerable of an A.

 

 

And do these women even KNOW they are vulnerable for an A??

[ComingInHot]

Two Sure;

And UGH! That is in Such poor taste!!

[cocorico]

:laugh:

 

I'm sure her "bad" attitude had nothing to do with the fact that she was married to a straight up POS.

 

All men are, according to her, a view she has always held based on family of origin issues. It was also the source of some issues for their son, being told constantly that all men are bastards and he was doomed to become one.

 

Good on her that she didn't want or need to kiss her in-laws azz and bite her tongue like you will forever have to do. Remember - never cause ANY friction and always kiss the azz of his friends and family otherwise you will become "like her" and then he will be forced to cheat on you too.

 

Considering I have never held my tongue, nor have I ever had to, I find that assumption rather amusing in its ignorance! In fact one of the things his family often comment on is how pleased they are that they know where they stand with me, that I am direct and honest and straight with them, and don't "play games" or try to manipulate people. Not that I've ever had a reason to be rude or hostile or aggressive with any of them, as she was by all accounts. I get on just great with them and we have loads of fu just being ourselves.

 

AND I'm sure the inlaws were absolutely lovely people who never gave the "evil" wife any trouble at all. They were probably the perfect inlaws - your fMM's family. They have an angel for a son, so I'm sure his family were angels as well.

 

That's pretty spot-on, even if it was meant sarcastically. They're modest, humble people, not flashy or showy with any great pretensions, just great people with good basic values, warm hearts and plenty of love.

 

 

Yeah, "skewed" is right on the money.

Too bad the exwife isn't able to respond to your post so we can get her side of the saga.

 

I guess that's the problem with everyone on here.

 

P.S. Did you and your fMM ever fool around while you were cultivating and maintaining your affair right under his wife's nose in their marital and his extended family's homes?

 

I have no idea what you mean by "fool around". That's not a term I've heard since school and if you're meaning did we throw paper planes while the student teacher was writing on the board, I think you can probably work the answer out.

 

And no, it wasn't "under her nose". Her nose was elsewhere. She was never part of family gatherings or work functions or social gatherings with friends.

[Spark1111]

It's my opinion that many OW become so when they are at a particularly vulnerable time of their lives. MOst women that are secure, strong, and stable will only accept a relationship with an available man. It doesn't excuse women, but gives a possibility.

 

Some MM are very good at picking out vulnerable women and makng them feel special.

 

Others are very good at building up to an affair by taking time to convince a woman that he is some kind of victim of his marriage, like his wife is nuts or can't take care of the kids so he has to be a martyr.

 

On the other hand, there are OW, and I've known them...who wouldn't consider a relationship with a single man. They don't want a real relationship. Others are husband shopping and thats usually a money thing.

 

It takes all kinds of OW and all kinds of husbands. Which kind a husband ends up with is up to him.

 

This is a brilliant post and just about sums up my experience IRL!

[Spark1111]

lol, which begs the question, do mm have radar for women vulnerable of an A.

 

 

And do these women even KNOW they are vulnerable for an A??

 

Yes! Absolutely!

 

And no, they do not realize they are vulnerable and, or being groomed as an affair partner.

 

They think he really likes them and is attracted to them (he may be).

 

They need to feel loved so he starts complimenting them, big time.

 

He has most likely insulted or alienated more stable women in his pursuit of one vulnerable to his particular bs.

 

He needs to find one empathetic and receptive to his poor me, my wife doesn't love me or treat me well or one who responds to his flirting and doesn't care he is married.

[Steadfast]

It's my opinion that many OW become so when they are at a particularly vulnerable time of their lives.

 

Many are habitually vulnerable, not just women, even though that phrase or description is more often used on females. I was extremely vulnerable during my divorce and because of that I made some poor decisions. I get that now.

 

Curious 2sure...is feeling vulnerable why you're afraid to get into another relationship? If so, what has to happen for you to not feel that way?

 

Good thoughts and feedback on this thread. Thanks for a brilliant post 2sure-

[ComingInHot]

Spark;

So if the OW is empathetic to MM's "plight" this means she does have empathy/compassion. How can she ONLY have empathy for mm and not the wife.

 

Or in general, how can one have empathy or the ability to empathize only for certain people or certain situations??

 

Only speaking for myself here, but because I have empathy and compassion, I enlist these traits for everything from A's to pro life/choice etc. Just because I agree/disagree doesn't mean I don't still Not hurt others or dis respect them...

 

This is something difficult for me to grasp.

[2sure]

 

Curious 2sure...is feeling vulnerable why you're afraid to get into another relationship? If so, what has to happen for you to not feel that way?

 

 

Oh yes, totally vulnerable in that I am afraid. Afraid of screwing up, afraid of being hurt, of hurting someone else, of not recognizing a healthy relationship, ..all of it.

 

What has to happen? Thanks for asking, I think I should figure that out. I've never thought to since my divorce. Thats the question isn't it?

[Steadfast]

Oh yes, totally vulnerable in that I am afraid. Afraid of screwing up, afraid of being hurt, of hurting someone else, of not recognizing a healthy relationship, ..all of it.

 

What has to happen? Thanks for asking, I think I should figure that out. I've never thought to since my divorce. Thats the question isn't it?

 

Yes.

 

Has it occurred to you that you're doing the right thing? I mean, if this thread is any indication, you're being sympathetic and kind to not only an innocent (would be or otherwise) lover/partner, but yourself as well. That's a good thing, isn't it? I think it's wise we listen to our heart and trust our instincts. Yes; even when loneliness and unfulfilled desire are present.

 

Past that I can say no more. Except that your posts are touching and kind.

[ComingInHot]

DS;

I love how you Don't beat around the bush!

I guess I need to do this for myself in my "weak" moments.

It is easy for me to give sound, loving advice when the answers are so clear AND for someone else...

Yet I always Hope that there is some decency in Everyone it just needs to be brought out.

 

Marital terrorist... That's good, lol*