Moaning about your looks in dating....

[xxoo]

I'll break it down like a fraction for all of you.

 

She said she has plenty of options, because she is pleasing to look at.

 

If you go back, and dig through many of my posts....and many posts of other guys on here....you will see how when WE tried to argue that point....but as guys, we get told we dont know what we are talking about.

 

So now that she said it....all those women that bashed us...are going to have it in for her...since she just indirectly validated our side of the argument.

 

Class dismissed

 

.

 

Most women have plenty of options.

 

The question is--is she interested in any of her options? Some of that depends on the woman.

[ThaWholigan]

Everyone has dating options. Even the guys who bitch about not having any.

[xxoo]

I agree with that.

 

I do not agree with adding (regardless of how they look)

 

Leigh adds that a guy doesn't have to be that hot for her to be attracted.

 

So she's an attractive, young woman, with long blonde hair, who is attracted to average looking men. Of course she perceives a lot of options!

 

I'd say the most important factor in her perceiving options is her ability to be attracted to average looking men....not her personal hotness.

[xxoo]

Because shes not stuck on herself, like many women are. I know a few women that dont even like when less attractive guys "look" at them in public.

 

Can't we just admire how great Leigh is without putting down other women?

 

Women, like men, can choose partners however they wish. No one has to be attracted to, or date, anyone they don't want to date. For some people, that will mean not dating at all....but maybe that's a good thing in some cases.

[ascendotum]

Agreed - but the guy does not have to be that hot for me to be attracted!

 

As long as they are average and do not put me off! A guy that is not that attractive can become attractive, as long as they were not repulsive to begin with.

 

Your also right about girls! I have long blonde hair, clear skin and straight teeth, and am not totally fat - therefore I have plenty of options!

 

And I am not even that special looking! You would think I would struggle more, based on my looks alone.

 

I think long hair on a girl, not being fat, and not having skin or teeth that are too messed up will get you plenty of dates, unless your in a particularly bad area and are super unlucky.... Or are just a complete bitch where no one wants to hang around you LOL.

 

I agree with mesmerized that women do get judged more on their looks, no doubt about it. It the biggest % variable for guys when it comes to attraction in a woman....however I also agree with you and Vegegirl. The way guys are hardwired, they find a lot of women attractive enough to be a be a gf. Its not just having a beautiful face, tits and arse go a long for guys in creating desire for a woman thanks to testosterone in guys. You are critical of yourself in a number of posts, but at the same time a realist to know you would have lots of guys interested in you on the facets alone you mentioned.

 

I bet if you showed the high school/university class photo to the guys & girls who were in it a couple of years later and asked them how many of the opposite sex in the picture they would dated, the numbers would be higher for the guys. Its the nature of men and women. Many women I have known when they have gone out have complained something like 3/4 of the guys at the venue are losers (there have just been a couple of posts along those lines in another thread). Guys don't go to a venue and say 3/4 of the girls there are dogs.

 

Reading some of the posts here I agree with comments from both sides, sometimes though people are arguing in B&W concepts and its not the case. A lot of guys here can have a distorted view because they are focusing on the guys that do well + the more desirable women + women who bounce from guy to guy. Like in the show 'how I met your mother', there are lots of women like lily or Robin out there, but when a guy is single & struggling its human nature to a degree to focus in on the single girls dressed sexy and Barnie type characters they jump in the back of a cab with after a short time, and get a distorted view of women. (In saying that though, plenty of lily type girls do go for spin with the barnie types when single)

[xxoo]

Cant we just voice our opinions without you trying to control our freedom of speech?

 

.

 

Back atcha'

[SteveC80]

Seeing it from a good looking guys persepctive whos seen my average friends struggle with their average female counterparts ignore them and annoy me while i have zero interest looks do play a big role

 

I think its easier for average women

 

hate to have to go back to something that's brought up on these threads a lot, but it is an important metric in attraction: height.

 

Height is very interesting because it's genetic, so it is what it is, whether good or bad, it's not earned. Now let's think about what's "average" (that dreaded word that nobody thinks they are). Average female height in America is probably about 5'4". Now, what man would turn down a 5'4" woman (for height reasons)? None. Heck we could go 2 inches shorter or 2 inches taller and still no man would turn her down because of her height. So men wouldn't turn down an "average" woman. Ladies, it's okay to be average haha.

 

Average male height in America is roughly 5'9"-5'10". Most women regard this as not tall enough, not saying it's short, but they would prefer (and women, more often than not, GET to do the preferring) taller. This is their ideal. But simple stats will tell you that there aren't enough 6'0" tall men for the women who want them.

 

So the fact that the average woman is not attracted to the average man as much as he is to her......is not a good thing folks...for both parties involved. This is generally my "theme" in this thread, not some blanket statement that women aren't turned on or attracted to men, it's that women aren't turned on or attracted to ENOUGH men

[xxoo]

So the fact that the average woman is not attracted to the average man as much as he is to her......is not a good thing folks...for both parties involved. This is generally my "theme" in this thread, not some blanket statement that women aren't turned on or attracted to men, it's that women aren't turned on or attracted to ENOUGH men

 

This is nothing new, and it is nothing wrong. When a man's got a gf, he's happy that she's not attracted to as many men as he is attracted to women! It has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

The idea is to attract a few of the women you are attracted to--not all of them.

[ThaWholigan]

This is nothing new, and it is nothing wrong. When a man's got a gf, he's happy that she's not attracted to as many men as he is attracted to women! It has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

The idea is to attract a few of the women you are attracted to--not all of them.

Of course they will argue "But it's only the good looking tall guys, while all the other guys get scraps" or something similar.

 

Ah well.....

[mesmerized]

Definitely agree with this to an extent. I do think guys are more easily "fooled" with looks though...if you have the basics (long hair, not fat, wear some make up) lots of guys will think you are "hot". Like a Monet. They just see the vague big picture in my experience.

 

Anyway, I will also say that NO amount of "amazing personality" or awesome social skills is gonna make me attracted to a guy I find physically unattractive.

 

I bet lots of women think somedude and other guys who bitch here are hot too, they are just not the ones they want. Same for women.

 

I also know quite a few women that fit your "basics" but aren't really considered "hot" or even particularly attractive.

[Revolver]

I've seen more women complain about looks in Dating then their male counterparts. Ive also noticed most of your threads are bashing or criticizing men in some way or another

[Lonely Ronin]

If anyone wants to truly educate themselves on this...and not take my word on it. Google Dan Ariely he has done extensive studies of all this stuff and how it pertains to dating. He is a professor of psychology and behavioral economics. This video, Why Online Dating Is So Unsatisfying | Dan Ariely | Big Think he talks about the online dating world, and how bad the system is versus our natural process of attraction.

 

 

And you know what most people are judging height and age. I'm 32 and 6'0" tall, but I can't remember the last time a woman got them both right. Most think I'm 26 or 27, and 6'2" or 6'3" tall. You know why they get it wrong? It's because that's how they perceive me. Hell, I have a friend who is 5'7" or 5'8" that not as fit as me, and he does exceptionally well with women. Why? Because he is very engaging in conversations, and very out going and fearless when it comes to talking to women.

 

Like the OP said, most guys need to stop moaning about the hand they have been dealt, and just play it to the best of their abilities. In the real world all these stupid stats don't mean shi*. If you can be engaging, make her laugh, make her smile, make her feel special, and make her feel wanted you will do just fine.

[Leigh 87]

Watch your back....there may be a group of women that have it in for you, after admitting what you just said. I've tried to get that point across in numerous threads....but it doesnt count when it comes from a guy.

 

 

 

And they will have it in for me because, why?

 

Because I have options, and refuse to pick the "hottest" one?

 

I never even said I find myself attractive; I said enough MEN do, in order for me to have options, including from HOT men. Most average to 6/10 girls like me DO have hot guys interested in them, based on our personalities.

 

Because I merely want to find a guy who is funny, makes me laugh, enjoys travel and has some crazy stories to tell; and he merely needs to be AVERAGE? And not turn me off?

 

I am easy going and never feel angry or bitchy towards people unless they hurt me or my friends or family.

 

It's sad how some women have it in for people for no good reason; what a waste of their energy!

 

No wonder some women cannot keep boyfriends! They are not happy in their own lives, so they have to spend time being nasty to others. I think this is a terrible quality and a HUGE turn off.

me.

 

I personally do not think I am good looking at all; I am just describing the options I have, based on how guys treat me in my daily life.

[threebyfate]

And they will have it in for me because, why?

 

Because I have options, and refuse to pick the "hottest" one?

 

I never even said I find myself attractive; I said enough MEN do, in order for me to have options, including from HOT men. Most average to 6/10 girls like me DO have hot guys interested in them, based on our personalities.

 

Because I merely want to find a guy who is funny, makes me laugh, enjoys travel and has some crazy stories to tell; and he merely needs to be AVERAGE? And not turn me off?

 

I am easy going and never feel angry or bitchy towards people unless they hurt me or my friends or family.

 

It's sad how some women have it in for people for no good reason; what a waste of their energy!

 

No wonder some women cannot keep boyfriends! They are not happy in their own lives, so they have to spend time being nasty to others. I think this is a terrible quality and a HUGE turn off.

me.

 

I personally do not think I am good looking at all; I am just describing the options I have, based on how guys treat me in my daily life.

Thought I'd bring something to your attention. He created a fictitious female enemy for you to trash since if you've noticed, no one put you down or criticized you for expressing your opinion. Nice going not only taking the bait but swallowing, digesting and pooping the hook and bait out.

[irc333]

Part of this can be due to geographic location. The local women in my suburb all pretty much ignore me. At the same time...women that are over an hour away...that live in large city metro areas find me attractive and interesting.

 

A lot of it can be about the women around you....than you yourself. I do not believe that just confidence alone, changes the mind of a woman and her tastes in men, for the avg everyday guy.

 

Right....a lot of women in my smaller , suburban area are still hanging out with their friends from highschool from back in the 80's and aren't open making NEW friends beyond that.

 

I call it the "fish bowl" community.

 

Some are still married (though I wonder if Happily married), to their HS Sweethearts.

[xxoo]

Like the OP said, most guys need to stop moaning about the hand they have been dealt, and just play it to the best of their abilities. In the real world all these stupid stats don't mean shi*. If you can be engaging, make her laugh, make her smile, make her feel special, and make her feel wanted you will do just fine.

 

Exactly.

 

I can see how stats would mean a lot more online. That's just a reason to get off the computer and talk to some women!

[mammasita]

But what are you yourself? Not every women can get a guy whos a 9 people learn toget their panties or underwearm moistend by people on their own attractviness level

Honey, I'm a solid 2.

 

My opionion is that your thinking is completely OFF.

[grkBoy]

When it comes to a man's looks, guys need to accept four things:

 

1. Women like guys who have a sense of style. They want a guy who cares about his clothing and cares about what he's wearing when he goes out anywhere. They don't want the guy who simply buys bland baggy cheap clothing from the bargain spot but will shop around to find that stylish shirt that fits well or the pair of jeans that flatters his body.
   
2. Women like men who are versatile. This is somewhat an opposite of the last point. They want the guy who owns a nice suit, can put on a nice shirt and outfit for a date, and cares about his appearance...but they also like a guy who can also put on the sweats and slobby stuff for a day at home...rather than be all "dressed up" all the time.
   
3. They love good hygiene. We've heard to death about men with bad teeth, hair, etc. People might claim the "metro" thing is "gay", but you would be surprised how many women of all shapes and sizes love a man who takes care of his hygiene. He cares about his nails, teeth, hair, skin, etc. Doesn't mean you have to blow money on facials...but it does mean you should think beyond cheap bar soap.
   
4. Women will reject some guys no matter what. Accept it. She might dream of some olive-skinned Italian man...and thus the Irish redhead, Indian guy, Black guy, or Asian guy won't gain her interest. She might "require" an athletic build, and thus your average or overweight self won't gain her interest. You guys need to stop thinking it's all women or it's not fair. It doesn't matter how well you dress or anything at this point. Just cross that particular woman off your list of "possibles" and move on.
   

 

 

I think the myth that a man has to be 6' tall, athletic body, full head of hair, and dressed in expensive clothing is just something many men tell themselves to hide the fact they really can't dress well. I'm astounded when I go to "nice clothing" affairs and I see guys who think "nice clothes" are jeans, sneakers, and a polo shirt. Um...no.

 

I think it's terrible if a man has a closet full of sneakers, jeans, sweats, and t-shirts, but has no nice button-up shirts, no suit, no slacks, nothing beyond "slob" or "casual"...and you particular guys wonder why women aren't looking your way?

 

Clothes make the man. You don't have to be Channing Tatum, but you can't be the bland average nobody who gets lost in the crowd.

 

I'll tell you. I'm out of shape. I don't look like a "before" image for Jenny Craig, but I have a bubble butt and a tiny bit of gut. Even before my fiancee, women I met and dated liked that I cared about my clothes, how they fit, and that I put some time/effort into my hygiene. I'll add in my own interests and personality...but they liked that I cared.

[threebyfate]

You don't have to be Channing Tatum, but you can't be the bland average nobody who gets lost in the crowd.

While I agree with some of your points, I couldn't get past this reference to Tatum. Yuck. That man does less than nothing for me since he comes across so empty inside. Thick smoke, no fire.

[dasein]

IME, men moan about their looks because they see a pronounced demarcation in looks that women tend to respond to en masse, and the bar is pretty high. You are either on one side of the line, dreamy, and get more attention than you can handle, things are ridiculously easy, or on the other side and are completely invisible and undesirable. Have experienced this in life several times myself over the years. That line occurs in male attraction also, but it is much much lower. Men see pretty much any woman who is not fat (and many fat girls too) getting loads of attention and response from men, yet the same is definitely not true for men who merely aren't fat. This seems to be the source of lots of the groaning that goes on here and elsewhere re male looks, and it's a fact. Just a given reality though that men must accept and calculate into whatever their goals are. If men don't like this reality, then it's up to men to become more discriminating and in control of their sexual desires. This is the place for people to "groan" generally about this or that, so what if they do?

 

Just one anecdote. I saw a show on MTV last night where people who have been communicating online and fall in love with someone they've never met are given the opportunity to meet, and it was striking how overweight the women on the show were versus the male hosts and male objects of the online relationships. Striking as in "extreme mismatches in attractiveness." I imagine that men would rate the women on this show as very average at best, and women would also rate the men on the show as average (see OK Cupid survey), despite that by any objective measure, the men are far better looking. In other shows I've seen with a bad girls theme, and including shows like Jersey Shore, the men in the show are objectively much better looking than the women in terms of raw physical factors, weight and condition especially (not saying anything about style, couth or other factors, so spare straw men). Just a few examples of a mismatch seen all over entertainment, and I'm sure there are plenty of ugly celeb men married to beautiful women, those are outliers. The reason I bring up tv entertainment is that I believe it's at least some dispositive of audience preference, else the show wouldn't be on.

Edited November 15, 2012 by dasein

[mesmerized]

IME, men moan about their looks because they see a pronounced demarcation in looks that women tend to respond to en masse. You are either on one side of the line, dreamy, and get more attention than you can handle, things are ridiculously easy, or on the other side and are completely invisible and undesirable. Have experienced this in life several times myself over the years. That line occurs in male attraction also, but it is much much lower. Men see pretty much any woman who is not fat (and many fat girls too) getting loads of attention and response from men, yet the same is definitely not true for men who merely aren't fat. This seems to be the source of lots of the groaning that goes on here and elsewhere re male looks, and it's a fact. Just a given reality though that men must accept and calculate into whatever their goals are. If men don't like this reality, then it's up to men to become more discriminating and in control of their sexual desires. This is the place for people to "groan" generally about this or that, so what if they do?

 

Just one anecdote. I saw a show on MTV last night where people who have been communicating online and fall in love with someone they've never met are given the opportunity to meet, and it was striking how overweight the women on the show were versus the male hosts and male objects of the online relationships. Striking as in "extreme mismatches in attractiveness." I imagine that men would rate the women on this show as very average at best, and women would also rate the men on the show as average (see OK Cupid survey), despite that by any objective measure, the men are far better looking. In other shows I've seen with a bad girls theme, and including shows like Jersey Shore, the men in the show are objectively much better looking than the women in terms of raw physical factors, weight and condition especially (not saying anything about style, couth or other factors, so spare straw men). Just a few examples of a mismatch seen all over entertainment, and I'm sure there are plenty of ugly celeb men married to beautiful women, those are outliers. The reason I bring up tv entertainment is that I believe it's at least some dispositive of audience preference, else the show wouldn't be on.

 

You are sooooo biased it's not even funny. There are tons and tons of shows out there where men are the fugly ones. Almost all the "real housewives" shows for example. Tons of movies where the nerdy chubby average looking guy goes after and gets the hottest girls.

[IT Geek]

When it comes to a man's looks, guys need to accept four things:

 

1. Women like guys who have a sense of style.
   
2. Women like men who are versatile.
   
3. They love good hygiene.
   
4. Women will reject some guys no matter what.
   

 

5. Women will not date overweight guys

[mesmerized]

5. Women will not date overweight guys

 

In another thread you mentioned you are obese but on your way to be healthy. What kind of women are you looking to date now?

[dasein]

You are sooooo biased it's not even funny. There are tons and tons of shows out there where men are the fugly ones. Almost all the "real housewives" shows for example. Tons of movies where the nerdy chubby average looking guy goes after and gets the hottest girls.

 

I have seen the housewife shows, and you are simply wrong, unless you think applying hideous, garish layers of makeup is somehow "beautiful."

[Woggle]

Everybody on those housewives shows are the fugly ones. Even people who just happen to be around when they are filming drop in attractiveness. Just kidding about that but reality TV is full of ugly people in general.